Preparing to refresh my first top-end, pics and questions

[Pete_Vit]

  when I put the O ring in the back head I put it in the head then slid the pushrod tube in, reading the install guide I think that was the wrong way, I forget now, so the front head I put the O ring on the tube and pushed it up into the head, guess which one leaked some...... the front 

[SixShooter14]

when I put the O ring in the back head I put it in the head then slid the pushrod tube in, reading the install guide I think that was the wrong way, I forget now, so the front head I put the O ring on the tube and pushed it up into the head, guess which one leaked some...... the front 

Haha, I put it on the tube then pushed up into the head......Then the tube fell down and O-ring stayed.

My problem was with the clips. One wasn't all the way on the flange at the top and the other one the Oring wasn't down in the flare of the lower tube. Hopefully they're all where they go now. Going to try to ride again at lunch.

[Pete_Vit]

when I put the O ring in the back head I put it in the head then slid the pushrod tube in, reading the install guide I think that was the wrong way, I forget now, so the front head I put the O ring on the tube and pushed it up into the head, guess which one leaked some...... the front 

Haha, I put it on the tube then pushed up into the head......Then the tube fell down and O-ring stayed.

My problem was with the clips. One wasn't all the way on the flange at the top and the other one the Oring wasn't down in the flare of the lower tube. Hopefully they're all where they go now. Going to try to ride again at lunch.

oh the clips  i will not publicly tell you my issues with the 2 piece tubes and the clips
yep I'm a greene 

[SixShooter14]

when I put the O ring in the back head I put it in the head then slid the pushrod tube in, reading the install guide I think that was the wrong way, I forget now, so the front head I put the O ring on the tube and pushed it up into the head, guess which one leaked some...... the front 

Haha, I put it on the tube then pushed up into the head......Then the tube fell down and O-ring stayed.

My problem was with the clips. One wasn't all the way on the flange at the top and the other one the Oring wasn't down in the flare of the lower tube. Hopefully they're all where they go now. Going to try to ride again at lunch.

oh the clips  i will not publicly tell you my issues with the 2 piece tubes and the clips
yep I'm a greene 

I crushed 2 of them, had to hammer them back into round over a 1/2" socket. And I tore the little slot out of one with the screwdriver......They're not pretty, but they're on there and I just rode 25miles to get gas and no leaking. So, that's good.

I came damn close pulling out the dremel and sandpaper and shortening them a bit.

[Ohio HD]

They need to be tight. The top end will lengthen with heat, the tubes, not so much. Then you lose pressure on the o-rings.

[SixShooter14]

They need to be tight. The top end will lengthen with heat, the tubes, not so much. Then you lose pressure on the o-rings.

They definitely are. The O-rings can squish also with time and heat, so I get that. But dang, it seemed a bit excessive.

[Ohio HD]

Yeah, some are tighter than others. There's also a knack you get for putting them on. I also have the Motion Pro tool. It works ok when you have a real stiff one. Otherwise I use a screw driver.

These don't come out unless I'm cussing!     


https://www.motionpro.com/product/08-0255

[SixShooter14]

Yeah, some are tighter than others. There's also a knack you get for putting them on. I also have the Motion Pro tool. It works ok when you have a real stiff one. Otherwise I use a screw driver.

These don't come out unless I'm cussing!     


https://www.motionpro.com/product/08-0255

Yeah, I saw a video on YT of a guy using one of those. I almost ordered one. I ended up using a screwdriver with some fuel line on the end to pry against the cylinder fin. I don't really like that method though. So I might go ahead and order the tool anyway, just to have one.

[Ohio HD]

I never grab a fin. I just get a different screw driver if I'm having troubles. That was before the tool was around.

I remember being young and strong, and just pulling the collar down and popping the clips in.

I had some pretty strong beer can crushers at one time.   

[SixShooter14]

I never grab a fin. I just get a different screw driver if I'm having troubles. That was before the tool was around.

I remember being young and strong, and just pulling the collar down and popping the clips in.

I had some pretty strong beer can crushers at one time.   

I tried pulling the clip down with a screwdriver through the loop in the side...But the loop tore out and the clip started flaring out and buckling in the middle. Then I got a 2nd driver and pried the cup down while I pushed down with the clip. It took a few tries, but it worked. Really could have used another pair of hands. But I've said that a few times in the last month or so.

[JW113]

Sorry for being lazy, but this is a long thread. Can't remember if you cut the heads down or not. If you did, yes, the pushrod clips will be hard to get in. I had my '92 heads cut 50 thou, and took that much off the clips.

-JW

[cheech]

The tool is the deal. If don't have that.
To install;  Insert tubes, put the clip up in the top flange, screwdriver blade between clip and collar, push on clip with thumb while rocking screwdriver up and down with other hand.
I'm alone or would of video'd for you, and my index finger is where my left thumb should be, right hand working screwdriver.
Obviously phone was in right hand.
[attach=0]
About in so hand out of way.
[attach=1]

[SixShooter14]

 

Thanks, that does look a bit easier.

[Ohio HD]

Sorry for being lazy, but this is a long thread. Can't remember if you cut the heads down or not. If you did, yes, the pushrod clips will be hard to get in. I had my '92 heads cut 50 thou, and took that much off the clips.

-JW

I was wondering the same JW, if the previous owner had them cut. I don't know how thick an Evo head should be, I do know TC is 3.750" milled surface to milled surface.

[Ohio HD]

The tool is the deal. If don't have that.
To install;  Insert tubes, put the clip up in the top flange, screwdriver blade between clip and collar, push on clip with thumb while rocking screwdriver up and down with other hand.
I'm alone or would of video'd for you, and my index finger is where my left thumb should be, right hand working screwdriver.
Obviously phone was in right hand.
[attach=0,msg1339284]
About in so hand out of way.
[attach=1,msg1339284]

That's the way.     

[JW113]

I was wondering the same JW, if the previous owner had them cut. I don't know how thick an Evo head should be, I do know TC is 3.750" milled surface to milled surface.

If the bottom surface of the head is cut say 50 thou, then the push rod tube seat in the head is now 50 thou closer to the engine case. You can still get the pushrod tube clips in, but as Six is finding, you have to squeeze the whole stack 50 thou more each than stock.

-JW

[Ohio HD]

I was wondering the same JW, if the previous owner had them cut. I don't know how thick an Evo head should be, I do know TC is 3.750" milled surface to milled surface.

If the bottom surface of the head is cut say 50 thou, then the push rod tube seat in the head is now 50 thou closer to the engine case. You can still get the pushrod tube clips in, but as Six is finding, you have to squeeze the whole stack 50 thou more each than stock.

-JW

Understood. I was just referring to the head gasket surface to the rocker box surface on a TC is 3.750" Then they get thinner as you mill the head gasket surface, and as you noted everything gets closer to the cases.

Maybe Larry or John will see this, they no doubt can shed light on what an unmolested head thickness is, just for reference.

[Hossamania]

Never had the tool, just did it the way cheech showed. A friend just got the tool, it is slick as hell. Made easy work off and on.

[JW113]

Yes the tried and true screwdriver works fine. I use a thin blade cabinet style, with long handle.

I have a set of these, but have never actually used them yet. A simple and clever idea, would make removal/installation of these clips a lot easier.

[attach=0]

-JW

[jsachs1]

I was wondering the same JW, if the previous owner had them cut. I don't know how thick an Evo head should be, I do know TC is 3.750" milled surface to milled surface.

If the bottom surface of the head is cut say 50 thou, then the push rod tube seat in the head is now 50 thou closer to the engine case. You can still get the pushrod tube clips in, but as Six is finding, you have to squeeze the whole stack 50 thou more each than stock.

-JW

Understood. I was just referring to the head gasket surface to the rocker box surface on a TC is 3.750" Then they get thinner as you mill the head gasket surface, and as you noted everything gets closer to the cases.

Maybe Larry or John will see this, they no doubt can shed light on what an unmolested head thickness is, just for reference.

I just checked 3 Evo heads, and I know 2 sets are milled. The 3rd set measured 3.770". I believe they haven't been clipped yet. I just dropped a set of 1988 head castings off at my powder coaters, that I know are stock, on a EVO Springer that's in for a rebuild. Prolly not see them till middle of next week. I'll check when I get them back if we're allowed out. Daytona is getting bad.
John

[Ohio HD]

I was wondering the same JW, if the previous owner had them cut. I don't know how thick an Evo head should be, I do know TC is 3.750" milled surface to milled surface.

If the bottom surface of the head is cut say 50 thou, then the push rod tube seat in the head is now 50 thou closer to the engine case. You can still get the pushrod tube clips in, but as Six is finding, you have to squeeze the whole stack 50 thou more each than stock.

-JW

Understood. I was just referring to the head gasket surface to the rocker box surface on a TC is 3.750" Then they get thinner as you mill the head gasket surface, and as you noted everything gets closer to the cases.

Maybe Larry or John will see this, they no doubt can shed light on what an unmolested head thickness is, just for reference.

I just checked 3 Evo heads, and I know 2 sets are milled. The 3rd set measured 3.770". I believe they haven't been clipped yet. I just dropped a set of 1988 head castings off at my powder coaters, that I know are stock, on a EVO Springer that's in for a rebuild. Prolly not see them till middle of next week. I'll check when I get them back if we're allowed out. Daytona is getting bad.
John

Thank you John, it's appreciated.

And do stay safe and healthy! 

[SixShooter14]

well folks, I'm currently at 78 miles since startup. Last night I rode 25 miles and drained the oil and filter, oil came out looking just like it had gone in. I didn't cut the filter open, but the drain plug was clean.

I'm going to try putting on a hundred or so today and then I'll change it again.

So far, no leaks at all from the engine. Bases, heads, tappet blocks, pushrod tubes, and rocker boxes are all dry....But, I'm getting a wee little bit from between the engine and trans. I think it's from one (or more) of the hoses there. I cleaned it all up nice, so I'm going to try riding a mile or 2 and then see where it's coming from. I do believe it's engine oil, so hopefully it's one of the hoses between the oil pump and pan. It's not a bad leak, leaves about 2 drips overnight. from the drain plug and where the oil hose goes into the bottom of the pan. But that's running downhill, so it may/may not be the drain plug itself.

Engine-wise, everything seems to be good though. 

Edit: I've not changed anything in the carb yet except hooking up the VOES. The first 75 miles used 2.5 gallons. Which includes 6 startups and all the riding in 3rd and 4th varying the speed/rpm up and down from 40-65mph. So, not too bad I don't think. But certainly too early to tell.

[JW113]

What might be happening is that when you took it apart, some oil dripped down on the engine. Now that you have it running and getting hot, the oil finds it's way to the bottom and drips off. I have this happen often after a tear down. It will usually clear up after a few more rides.

cheers,
JW

[SixShooter14]

What might be happening is that when you took it apart, some oil dripped down on the engine. Now that you have it running and getting hot, the oil finds it's way to the bottom and drips off. I have this happen often after a tear down. It will usually clear up after a few more rides.

cheers,
JW

It's certainly possible. I also didn't have the trans and crankcase spotless before teardown. I had cleaned around the camchest and everything above the cylinder bases, but not the hole between engine/trans. I also had the pushrod tube leaks from the first start ups. So, I'm going to clean up the middle area and double check the hose clamps. Then I'll give it a start and maybe a short ride to try finding where it might be coming from. I didn't have the O-ring set for the drains either, so that's a possibility, but the old one looked good. We'll see.

[jsachs1]

Heads back from the powder coater today. Engine should be back together and running end of next week.
Heads stock height = 3.770"
John

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