124" Project Storm Breaker

[kd]

To me, two is always one. Unless it's a deadly expensive item. I ordered two pair so that I know I have what I need.

You don't want to know how many head and special dimension base gaskets I have.     

[FSG]

there's an old saying ......

I'd rather be looking at it than looking for it   

[Ohio HD]

You don't want to know how many head and special dimension base gaskets I have.   

I don't know, you want to play a couple of hands?   


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[Ohio HD]

there's an old saying ......

I'd rather be looking at it than looking for it   

True. I still end up looking for it. I need a good 500 square feet just for part storage.     

[Ohio HD]

I didn't get much completed today. I had two phone meetings setup for health insurance for the next six months. I sorted parts from bulk storage to a box with the appropriate number for seals, gaskets, hardware, etc. that I'll be needing soon.

I did pressure test the oil pressure relief in the new cam plate. The first photo at 20psi is when you just start to hear air escape the cam plate at the oil bypass circuit. Then at 30psi the valve blows off a little more to hold the pressure at a steady 30psi. Then more air pressure to simulate higher RPM or cold thick oil or both the valve opens just under 60psi and dumps the extra through the bypass circuit.

The last photo is where I adjusted the valve to try and hold close to a steady 34psi. This was just about a 3/8 turn of the pressure valve screw in the cam plate.


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[kd]

You don't want to know how many head and special dimension base gaskets I have.   

I don't know, you want to play a couple of hands?   

Ummm???  I'll have to get back to you on that. 

[Ohio HD]

A few steps further, tomorrow or Sunday I'll put the outer gears on, check the backlash and setup for checking the degree of the intake lobes primarily. Those specs are most important to how the compression is setup. I'll also check TDC lift and intake closing. No point in looking at the exhaust other than TDC lift, it goes where the intake tells it to go.

My eyes are getting old and can't see marks on metal like they used to. So I mark the timing dots with a marker to better see where I am.

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[FSG]

My eyes are getting old and can't see marks on metal like they used to. So I mark the timing dots with a marker to better see where I am.

welcome to the club   

[Ohio HD]

welcome to the club   

Yeah, I think it's also slow progression of cataracts.

[Ohio HD]

I forgot a couple of pics. I checked the sprocket shaft runout at the end of the crank, I see 0.0006". I can't fit my 0.0001" readout dial indicator into the fixture, it's too short at the stem. With a cheapie 0.001" gauge I see 0.001" runout at the end of the pinion shaft.

My sprocket shaft measurement matches what DH said they had. The pinion shaft they measured 0.0004" at the end of the pinion shaft. It shows how far off three decimal place instruments can be. I need to source another 0.0001" dial gauge that will fit the pinion shaft fixture.


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[-deuced-]

Extension rod for dial indicator?

[JSD]

Nice

[Ohio HD]

So I learned something today, something I already suspected, but couldn't confirm till now. You might remember the last 124 I built for myself I had an issue with the crankshaft gear protruding outward past the camshaft gear by 0.040". This was a set of HD cases that I had DarkHorse put a Timken conversion in, had them assemble the lower end sense they had it there. What I ended up doing was have a shim made to place the cam gear outward 0.040" so that the gears were even. So the "what I already suspected" part is that some shops do not check the crankshaft position from the Timken conversion. I would have assumed that a shop that does many of these would have it figured out.

These S&S cases, well, you can see the gears are perfectly aligned. My intention with the other 124" motor is to take from my 2008 bike and put it in my 2009 bike, it's more of a nice touring motor. I think when I do that I'm going to put a new set of cams in it, I had been thinking about changing cams anyway. And make those cams chain drive as they're designed to be shimmed to fit. I have to look up the shim sizes first and see that they have the needed thickness to accomplish this.



The first four pictures are of the last 124" that I'm speaking of.

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These are pictures of the current S&S case setup. Dead on perfect.

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[Ohio HD]

FYI, both 124 motors have a Darkhorse built crank from S&S flywheel halves. So the only variable was the cases and how they're machined for the Timken bearing.

[Ohio HD]

I setup and checked the degree of the Leineweber cams. I came up with a little variation as to what the specs are. I have the values I measured and the spec from Leineweber below. The intake closing is retarded by 3°. Intake closing is at 66° ABDC and the spec is 63° ABDC.

What this does is reduces the corrected compression from 10.1:1 to 9.9:1. And the cam timing should then in theory maybe give me a touch more top end HP. Maybe 2 or 3 HP. But that's theory until you see it. And I won't have a before and after dyno run with valve timing changes.

The biggest surprise is the exhaust TDC lift. The spec from Leineweber says 0.108" exhaust lift (lifter) at TDC. What I measured was front cam 0.125" at the lifter, and for the rear cam 0.121" at TDC. At the valve with 1.725 rocker arms it changes the TDC lift from 0.186" to 0.212". I don't think this will be any issue but will first check with my head porter to get his take on it. From my calculations at this point I go from 0.067" valve to valve to 0.054".

I can correct the timing easy enough, or at least get it closer by using a 2° offset keyway for gear drive cams. I may try one just to see if the keyway did in fact give me back 2° in valve timing.

I don't blame the cams for the timing difference, it could be either one of the gears, or the  crank pinion shaft being out 2°. The TDC lift is no doubt an error by Leineweber. I suspect that it's a typo in their specs.


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[kd]

   And those are the reasons you check your dimensions before and as you assemble a custom performance engine.

[Ohio HD]

If I advance the cams even 2° the intake TDC will go higher, maybe 0.008" to 0.010". That 2° advance will reduce the exhaust TDC lift by maybe 0.006" to 0.010" as well.

I need to check with Jim to see that the higher exhaust TDC lift should be ok. And I'll also ask him about increasing the intake TDC lift via a 2° advance keyway.


 

[Ohio HD]

Leaving no stone unturned before I advance the cams.

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[Ohio HD]

I found this site, thought I'd pass it along. Pretty neat, you can make a printable degree wheel with the cam specs you want to check. Change rotation for reversing the wheel on the motor, wheel diameter, etc. It would be a use one time, tape it to your steel wheel. You'd want to print on some heavy stock paper.

Also they can create a printable a timing tape.

https://www.blocklayer.com/degree-wheeleng

https://www.blocklayer.com/timing-tapeeng

[kd]

Now that's a cool site.  That computer of yours definitely knows its way around the internet. 

[Ohio HD]

Except that computer can't find the 3° my cams lost in intake closing. I think I'll put a 2° key in and see what I get.

[FSG]

you have all the toys             spendy ?

DIGIPRO

[kd]

Except that computer can't find the 3° my cams lost in intake closing. I think I'll put a 2° key in and see what I get.

.

I'm guessing it's down to manufacturer equipment tolerance off and missed at completion.

So here's what I see you have.  A custom cam with slightly different timing events than you expected (or wanted).  Overall close though.  That doesn't mean they are trash.  It's probably fairly common to some extent.  Unlike most, you took the time to check the cam's accuracy.  Others go in blind and just check and adjust clearances as it's assembled.  It probably accounts for different outcomes with the same recipe.

To begin, you're going to have to confirm that you have the actual clearances that Jim set everything up for.  It looks like you're going down that road now.  If all is good that way and you try them, are you making enough power that you won't notice the left being marginally lighter because the right will be similarly better?  You have chosen your supporting components carefully and I see them to be very much above average.  You may not notice any loss and appreciate any possible gains. I know you wouldn't have assembled this engine without checking or correcting everything first.  Again, if you hadn't gone OCD and set up a cam check you probably (like most) would have dove in at the deep end, put it on the dyno and said " That's what I guess it'll be."

Whichever way you go, this is going to be an interesting build to follow.  Lots to learn here.

[Ohio HD]

you have all the toys             spendy ?

DIGIPRO

I really don't know what it costs. I've had this for just over 20 years. Back in the day I was in charge of the CNC sheet metal department at Steelcraft in Cincy. I would get emails from Amada and other equipment manufacturers about new products, etc. Amada sent an email and had a questionnaire about CNC machinery G-code and asked you to answer the ten questions. The email said the first person that sent the ten correct answers back would win the Digipro.

I sent the email back within about six or seven minutes from the time it came to my inbox. About two months later it showed up with a letter stating I was the winner. It was a nice gesture and has been very handy to have. It's deadly accurate. 

They also had a variation of this attached to their CNC hydraulic press brakes. You would measure the angle you just bent, you would measure the part and push the correction button and it would adjust the program based on the program angle settings.

[Ohio HD]

Except that computer can't find the 3° my cams lost in intake closing. I think I'll put a 2° key in and see what I get.

.

I'm guessing it's down to manufacturer equipment tolerance off and missed at completion.

So here's what I see you have.  A custom cam with slightly different timing events than you expected (or wanted).  Overall close though.  That doesn't mean they are trash.  It's probably fairly common to some extent.  Unlike most, you took the time to check the cam's accuracy.  Others go in blind and just check and adjust clearances as it's assembled.  It probably accounts for different outcomes with the same recipe.

To begin, you're going to have to confirm that you have the actual clearances that Jim set everything up for.  It looks like you're going down that road now.  If all is good that way and you try them, are you making enough power that you won't notice the left being marginally lighter because the right will be similarly better?  You have chosen your supporting components carefully and I see them to be very much above average.  You may not notice any loss and appreciate any possible gains. I know you wouldn't have assembled this engine without checking or correcting everything first.  Again, if you hadn't gone OCD and set up a cam check you probably (like most) would have dove in at the deep end, put it on the dyno and said " That's what I guess it'll be."

Whichever way you go, this is going to be an interesting build to follow.  Lots to learn here.

Sometimes I hate checking so much. It generally means you'll find something that isn't 100%. With the cams appearing to be retarded based on the intake closing reading (the intake opening is correct, so the duration is more then as well), that can account for the exhaust TDC being higher. But the intake TDC should also be lower then, but it's not, it's correct.

I'll stick a 2° key in there and take the readings again, see what I get. The intake lobes are the most important to some extent. This is the first time I've degreed an HD cam, and have nothing to compare it to regarding accuracy to the OEM spec. I've checked several small block Chevy's a few years ago. The tool I have here is what I bought to check the Chevy's with. I actually forgot that I had it till a few weeks ago.

My biggest concern is everything working with the head setup. Jim set them up based on the cam specs, and bench tested them. I built the head layout drawing based on his data he provides. It's very detailed information you get back with the heads. I also built the heads in the Engine Analyzer Software based on Jim's specs. Both the software and my drawing suggest the heads will clear with the cam readings I'm seeing. But a physical check when the heads go on is required anyway.
 

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