Rekluse Torqdrive clutch pack VS AIM SDR variable pressure clutch ?

[Adam76]

Hey guys, need to upgrade my clutch to handle 130TQ / 110HP (being optimistic, could be lower) on my stage II  107" - 114" build using CP pistons, Cycle Rama cam and boring out my OEM cylinders.

What clutch upgrade will do the job --> with the lightest clutch lever pull?

I understand the VP clutch gets heavier as the rpm increase, but not sure at what rpm that is? 3500? 4000? 4500?
Also unsure if the Rekluse Torqdrive clutch pack will require heavier rate springs than the factory clutch springs, which will definitely increase lever effort.

Lever effort never used to bother me in all the previous bikes I've owned, from several Evo's to modified  TC's but these days lost a lot of strength in the left hand grip.

Thanks for any advice.   

[HogMike]

Cable or juice clutch ? Year and model of bike?
 

[Deye76]

My stock clutch is working fine with 120HP/132TQ.

[Adam76]

Cable or juice clutch ? Year and model of bike?
 

Sorry RTMike, 2019 Softail.
Cheers

[Adam76]

My stock clutch is working fine with 120HP/132TQ.

Thanks Deye76, what engine di you have and what mods have you done?

[hrdtail78]

I like to use Energy 1 plates.  They have a heavier spring if needed.  I don't use VPCs on street bikes.  Wrong application and they can ruin transmissions.

[Adam76]

I like to use Energy 1 plates.  They have a heavier spring if needed.  I don't use VPCs on street bikes.  Wrong application and they can ruin transmissions.

Thanks hrdtail78, which clutch plates in particular? Thanks

[Deye76]

My stock clutch is working fine with 120HP/132TQ.

Thanks Deye76, what engine di you have and what mods have you done?

M8, 114", CR480 cam, S&S 2 into 1 pipe, PV tuned.

[scott7d]

I've got a similar setup in my 117". CR480 making around 115hp/132TQ. I have the stock clutch with stiffer springs. 108,000 miles on that setup and it's working great. And it didn't lighten my wallet that much.

[dglide20]

Your clutch should handle the changes without problems, at worst put in stiffer springs.  You won't really feel much difference in pull.

[Adam76]

Thanks guys, I'm going to put in the energy one clutch plates just to be safe and keep the stock clutch spring for the stock lever pull.
This should do the job.
Thanks.

[FSG]

....... I don't use VPCs on street bikes.  Wrong application and they can ruin transmissions.

you have any documentation to support that statement

[Adam76]

....... I don't use VPCs on street bikes.  Wrong application and they can ruin transmissions.

you have any documentation to support that statement

Hey FSG, what would you suggest?  Do the Energy one clutch plate kit even increase clutch capacity?

Thanks

[JSD]

Adam i have the energy one extra plate kit with there spring. All good here. May be the VPC might might be easier on your hand. Also is yours Hydraulic ? I may have missed

[Adam76]

Adam i have the energy one extra plate kit with there spring. All good here. May be the VPC might might be easier on your hand. Also is yours Hydraulic ? I may have missed

THanks JSD, no I have the std softail cable clutch. Yeah, the VPC has the benefit of an easier lever pull for certain applications. Otherwise I also have the option of the Muller power clutch which does definitely reduce lever effort.   

[JSD]

Good luck and keep us informed

[Hossamania]

The Mueller unit works well, I was pleasantly surprised by a friend's setup, but it does make proper adjustment critical. Not difficult, but a bit picky on setting. Bring wrenches with you and be prepared to stop and do a minor adjustment while riding, especially at first install.

[hrdtail78]

....... I don't use VPCs on street bikes.  Wrong application and they can ruin transmissions.

you have any documentation to support that statement

Nope.  Just my professional opinion based on 30 plus years of working on Harley's.  Take it or leave it. 

[FSG]

Take it or leave it. 

I'll leave it ......

I've mixed Mueller with VPCs ...... 

and as Hoss said  it does make proper adjustment critical

[hrdtail78]

Take it or leave it. 

I'll leave it ......

I've mixed Mueller with VPCs ...... 

and as Hoss said  it does make proper adjustment critical

      

[kd]

The Mueller unit works well, I was pleasantly surprised by a friend's setup, but it does make proper adjustment critical. Not difficult, but a bit picky on setting. Bring wrenches with you and be prepared to stop and do a minor adjustment while riding, especially at first install.

I am taking it this is a cable clutch description. It's not so picky so to require readjustment after the initial setting if you understand the physics (make-up) of the assembly and how the engine temperature (including the trans and clutch components) effect the free play in the lever as it heats up. 

Adjust the clutch cable "cold" so you barely feel any free play at the lever.  Examine the barrel on the cable tip in the lever to make sure it is not under tension and no more free play than that. That way you know the release bearing is not engaged and dragging.  When the engine gets hot that free play will grow and become what most consider spec.  That is enough to make up for the (law of levers) reduced pushrod travel that helps reduce the effort and compensates to get the clutch plates to disengage properly.

Here's an experiment for you to try.  Next time you go to start the bike and ride it (if it is cold as in the first ride of the day), check the clutch lever free play.  As you ride it and you begin to feel the engine heat do periodic finger checks just compressing the lever enough to show the free play travel distance.  You will see the free play will grow 2 - 3 times the original cold setting.  If you adjust it by the manual you will not get enough pushrod travel to separate the disc to release the clutch.

[kd]

The Mueller unit works well, I was pleasantly surprised by a friend's setup, but it does make proper adjustment critical. Not difficult, but a bit picky on setting. Bring wrenches with you and be prepared to stop and do a minor adjustment while riding, especially at first install.

I am taking it this is a cable clutch description. It's not so picky so to require readjustment after the initial setting if you understand the physics (make-up) of the assembly and how the engine temperature (including the trans and clutch components) effect the free play in the lever as it heats up. 

Adjust the clutch cable "cold" so you barely feel any free play at the lever.  Examine the barrel on the cable tip in the lever to make sure it is not under tension and no more free play than that. That way you know the release bearing is not engaged and dragging.  When the engine gets hot that free play will grow and become what most consider spec.  That is enough to make up for the (law of levers) reduced pushrod travel that helps reduce the effort and compensates to get the clutch plates to disengage properly.

Here's an experiment for you to try.  Next time you go to start the bike and ride it (if it is cold as in the first ride of the day), check the clutch lever free play.  As you ride it and you begin to feel the engine heat do periodic finger checks just compressing the lever enough to show the free play travel distance.  You will see the free play will grow 2 - 3 times the original cold setting.  If you adjust it by the manual you will not get enough pushrod travel to separate the disc to release the clutch.

I should have also mentioned when installing the reduced action lever in the transmission, you should also include a spring added to the cable.  This will ensure the release is full and the release bearing is clear of the clutch components.  A finer adjustment and a more full release is possible with the spring.  The link to an HTT conversation below will clear up any confusion to the value of a spring (even with the stock parts).  Reading it through and seeing FSG's pic will be worthwhile.

https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,102323.msg1206420.html#msg1206420

[Adam76]

The Mueller unit works well, I was pleasantly surprised by a friend's setup, but it does make proper adjustment critical. Not difficult, but a bit picky on setting. Bring wrenches with you and be prepared to stop and do a minor adjustment while riding, especially at first install.

I am taking it this is a cable clutch description. It's not so picky so to require readjustment after the initial setting if you understand the physics (make-up) of the assembly and how the engine temperature (including the trans and clutch components) effect the free play in the lever as it heats up. 

Adjust the clutch cable "cold" so you barely feel any free play at the lever.  Examine the barrel on the cable tip in the lever to make sure it is not under tension and no more free play than that. That way you know the release bearing is not engaged and dragging.  When the engine gets hot that free play will grow and become what most consider spec.  That is enough to make up for the (law of levers) reduced pushrod travel that helps reduce the effort and compensates to get the clutch plates to disengage properly.

Here's an experiment for you to try.  Next time you go to start the bike and ride it (if it is cold as in the first ride of the day), check the clutch lever free play.  As you ride it and you begin to feel the engine heat do periodic finger checks just compressing the lever enough to show the free play travel distance.  You will see the free play will grow 2 - 3 times the original cold setting.  If you adjust it by the manual you will not get enough pushrod travel to separate the disc to release the clutch.

I should have also mentioned when installing the reduced action lever in the transmission, you should also include a spring added to the cable.  This will ensure the release is full and the release bearing is clear of the clutch components.  A finer adjustment and a more full release is possible with the spring.  The link to an HTT conversation below will clear up any confusion to the value of a spring (even with the stock parts).  Reading it through and seeing FSG's pic will be worthwhile.

https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,102323.msg1206420.html#msg1206420

Thanks, I've read the thread you mentioned... Where is the best place to get that spring from?

Cheers

[kd]

The Mueller unit works well, I was pleasantly surprised by a friend's setup, but it does make proper adjustment critical. Not difficult, but a bit picky on setting. Bring wrenches with you and be prepared to stop and do a minor adjustment while riding, especially at first install.

I am taking it this is a cable clutch description. It's not so picky so to require readjustment after the initial setting if you understand the physics (make-up) of the assembly and how the engine temperature (including the trans and clutch components) effect the free play in the lever as it heats up. 

Adjust the clutch cable "cold" so you barely feel any free play at the lever.  Examine the barrel on the cable tip in the lever to make sure it is not under tension and no more free play than that. That way you know the release bearing is not engaged and dragging.  When the engine gets hot that free play will grow and become what most consider spec.  That is enough to make up for the (law of levers) reduced pushrod travel that helps reduce the effort and compensates to get the clutch plates to disengage properly.

Here's an experiment for you to try.  Next time you go to start the bike and ride it (if it is cold as in the first ride of the day), check the clutch lever free play.  As you ride it and you begin to feel the engine heat do periodic finger checks just compressing the lever enough to show the free play travel distance.  You will see the free play will grow 2 - 3 times the original cold setting.  If you adjust it by the manual you will not get enough pushrod travel to separate the disc to release the clutch.

I should have also mentioned when installing the reduced action lever in the transmission, you should also include a spring added to the cable.  This will ensure the release is full and the release bearing is clear of the clutch components.  A finer adjustment and a more full release is possible with the spring.  The link to an HTT conversation below will clear up any confusion to the value of a spring (even with the stock parts).  Reading it through and seeing FSG's pic will be worthwhile.

https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,102323.msg1206420.html#msg1206420

Thanks, I've read the thread you mentioned... Where is the best place to get that spring from?

Cheers

Post #18 of that thread gives you the Harley part number.  I just use a jobber spring with similar weight (slightly less but not more) and a length that provides the required tension out of my spring assortment box.  Check for that number at a dealer.  There has been other threads that named a few places. Maybe someone will restate some of their sources.

[FSG]

You will see the free play will grow 2 - 3 times the original cold setting.

for sure which is why I have my own clutch adjustment method