95" R.K Build Rattle

[02FYRFTR]

2002 RoadKing 8900 miles as stock with Reinhart True Dual , SE Air Cleaner and DynoJet PClllr.  Ran very well no strange or unusual noises.  No mechanical problem, service regularly and I am original owner.  Well , needless to say I got bored and decided to build some excitement.  Build as follows.

95", J E Forged Pistons 3.875"  with .0025" clearance, .030" cometic head gaskets
2006 heads cleaned up, decked .052", 79.5cc chambers, Manley 1.900" intakes, 1.575" exhausts, AV&V bronze guides, viton seals, three angled valve seats, beehive Manley springs set at 1.800".
Kuryakyn TC4 gear driven cams, SE billet plate and high output oil pump
Crane lifters, SE tapered adjustable pushrods
No change to PClllr
Pistons were clayed to check for valve clearance and did not even touch the clay, valve to valve Ok, retainer to stem seals clearance OK.

Bike starts right up w/o compression releases, idles at 975 to 1035, when accelerated w/o load does fine until 2500 RPM then distinct rattle type sound that increases with RPM but does not go away.  Same results when accelerated under load.   Seems to be coming from the front of the motor.  Push rod adjustment set at 2.5 turns, tubes have been clearanced, rocker boxes checked for clearance OK.  I have readjusted pushrods to be sure they are correct and have also rechecked rocker housings for ell tale wear marks.  Cam drive gear noise is non existent.  Where to next !!  I thought of hooking up my SERT and removing some advance, I did remove the PClllr and there was no change and I also have installed a SE Big Bore download with no change.  ?

[Mix01FLHT]

What cams?

[Mix01FLHT]

ooops. blind man here.

[roadking705]

Have you investigated potential rattles outside the engine, like headers, etc?

[04customking]

I might think the "rattle" is pinging. You have a whole new motor there and the same map in the PCIII? Seems to me you need some fuel and timing adjustments.

[ICANTD55]

When you say rattle do you mean, ping or detonation. Or is it external sounding . Trying to narrow it down.
Maybe stethoscope or piece of hose to find the area its coming from.

[02FYRFTR]

I might think the "rattle" is pinging. You have a whole new motor there and the same map in the PCIII? Seems to me you need some fuel and timing adjustments.

I removed the PClllr and Installed a SE 1550 download with my Scanalyzer.  No difference in sound or when it occurs.  Checked plugs they show no evidence of overheating, looks to be rich if anything judging by the black color.

[02FYRFTR]

When you say rattle do you mean, ping or detonation. Or is it external sounding . Trying to narrow it down.
Maybe stethoscope or piece of hose to find the area its coming from.

When I get through with painting the closet, I will take a look at the timing and start taking some out to see if it improves.  Thanks !!  Sounds internal, will have son bring back my stethescope on Turkey Day.

[Eglider05]

I might think the "rattle" is pinging. You have a whole new motor there and the same map in the PCIII? Seems to me you need some fuel and timing adjustments.

I couldn't agree more. I did a build for a friend and against my advice he rode it a couple thousand miles without changing the PC map. The result was it was way too lean, the rings never seated and I had to rebuild top end.

Rick

[Ghost Rider]

Forged pistons tend to rattle.

[02FYRFTR]

Forged pistons tend to rattle.

Is there some reason why they start to rattle at 2500 RPM ?

[Bakon]

"
No change to PClllr
!  I thought of hooking up my SERT and removing some advance, I did remove the PClllr and there was no change and I also have installed a SE Big Bore download with no change.  ?

You running a SERT and a PCIII? If so you are fighting yourself. Pick one and have it tuned, on a dyno. As far as forged pistons rattling, news to me and I have lots of miles on two bikes with them.

[02FYRFTR]

"
No change to PClllr
!  I thought of hooking up my SERT and removing some advance, I did remove the PClllr and there was no change and I also have installed a SE Big Bore download with no change.  ?

You running a SERT and a PCIII? If so you are fighting yourself. Pick one and have it tuned, on a dyno. As far as forged pistons rattling, news to me and I have lots of miles on two bikes with them.

Using SERT only, I removed the PClllr. 

[02FYRFTR]

Used my SERT to retard the timing and also add fuel.  Performed the procedure three or four times but does not seem to be getting any better.  I did remove rocker housing covers and recheck for any clearance issues and found none.  Also checked all heat shield, exhaust flanges, intake flanges.  Ran up to,m 3000 rpm with covers off and saw nothing abnormal in the valve train motion.  Does anyone out there have a SERT map that is close to my build ?

[crazybastid83]

Loose comp nut?

[02FYRFTR]

No !  Did not have any trouble before build !!

Loose comp nut?

[jsachs1]

If it's not your map.Could be a lifter or .......... rod bearing.Both exhibit your description.Did you check the rods ? The male rod especially.
I know it wouldn't be the cause of your problem,but I find motors with big cranking compression go through front rod bearings like sh*t through a goose.
John

[02FYRFTR]

If it's not your map.Could be a lifter or .......... rod bearing.Both exhibit your description.Did you check the rods ? The male rod especially.
I know it wouldn't be the cause of your problem,but I find motors with big cranking compression go through front rod bearings like sh*t through a goose.
John

Build has less than 45 minutes run time without a load on the motor.  It was heat cycled brfore going over 1100 RPM.  Rods checked OK prior to assembly and I already installed two new S&S lifers for front cylinder with no change.  The tank is almost empty and then I will pull the front head and take a look.  Thanks for the input.

[Hillside Motorcycle]

Those are the travel limiter S&S lifters??

[02FYRFTR]

OK:  Here is the bottom line:  J E Pistons use .073" circlips for the wrist pin retention.  Right side wrist pin clip gone when I pulled the head and looked in the bore, the telltale wrist pin grooves in the cylinder bore were evident.  Bottom line either I got a .0625 " clip or I left the clip out.  Either way, time to bore another cylionder, get another piston/rings/pin/clips and get the show back on the road.   Thanks to all for their help and comments.

[Hillside Motorcycle]

Well alrighty then.

[dakota224]

out the exhaust most likely..    well "Potty mouth" happens..  good luck.

[02FYRFTR]

out the exhaust most likely..    well "Potty mouth" happens..  good luck.

Absolutely no damage to the rings or the bore of the cylinder above the upper travel limit of the wrist pin.  I think my mind is not what it used to be and I had better start using a check off sheet on all my builds.  First time for everything.  I have been using clips since 1974 and this is the frst and it will be the last.

[Sonny S.]

Glad you figured out the problem.
"Potty mouth" happens like they say. Heck, doctor's leave tools in the patient....could be worse

I had a scary situation a few years ago. Just bolted the rocker boxes on as fresh build then saw a wrist pin clip laying on the floor.
After looking through the trash for old clips, and only found 2, I went through assembly in my mind for a while and took a gamble ...I won that one.
The original motor only had 25 miles on it so the old clips didn't even show wear yet.

I take a lot more precaution's now myself. Have a tray for ALL old parts and it doesn't get emptied untill the work is done, and all is well. On things that will be apart a while I bag and tag. Also have a rolling cart that I lay out the new parts on. Have often thought about a check list like you say...... I might do that.

[ederdelyi]

Won't do any good when ya get older than dirt (like some of us) ... ya ferget where ya put the checklist! Now where the Hell did I leave my sandwich :>)