Evo Motor Freshening-Suggestions? **Updated-done, and video**

[Flat Dog]

Some of you may know that I picked up a 95 Dyna which runs great, so I have to screw it up by tearing it down...LOL

Anyway-I have already bought the evo SE heads, and am trying to decide between the Andrews 51 and 59 cam. I figure with stock pistons, 9.5:1 or slightly higher with a cometic 030 is pushing things a bit in the Florida heat. Any suggestions on this combo?

I thought about going 10:1 forged pistons...will the bathtubbed chamber SE heads do ok with a 10:1 ratio and teh 51 or 59 cam? I figure I'll have to change out to a Hi4 also for more advance curve control. Just looking for around a 85/85 motor if I can, and of course I'll change out the lifters and bearing while I'm in there. BTW-motor has 43k miles on it, and still runs almost as good as my 103" twinkie.

Thanks for any advice-any help is much appreciated!

ETA: Andrews Cams Specs: http://www.andrewsproducts.com/motorcycle/cams/EV80_cams.htm

[ClassicRider2002]

Photo John~~~

I will throw my .20 cents in (inflation, don't you know, lol).....

I have read over and over.....that it's best not to take these evo engines over 9.5:1 compression anything at that level or less is appropriate....anything more and the "reliablity" factor curve changes......

BUTTTTTTTTT you can do what you want to do.....lol....as one Mechanic I talked with in Denver once said to me, I make engines go fast from point A to point B.....if they break going to point C, I fix them and make them go fast again.....I didn't let him work on my twin cam at the time, deciding to of course be more conservative.....so the answer for you.....is how often do you wish to be focused on your engine vs how reliable do you want it to go?  Of course the answer to this question really exists within your own budget and mind set.

And since we have already determined you purchased this "dyna" for the price or preceived "value" shame on you....lol vs purchasing a bike you would love, ie: FXR lol then of course the only thing that you can really make this bike do (to appreciate it)  is make it go fast.....so why not put the "stock" "OEM" EVO engine on the shelf and go get a S&S crated huge  EVO engine which has none of the issues associated with the "OEM" designed "EVO" when it comes to making a "huge" engine and be done with it.....then you will have a "fast" bike with no engine issues?  Don't make me spend the rest of my time in this thread talking about the merits of an FXR....LOL  (you know I am teasing you).....

By the way I once had a 2003 Dyna Low Rider with a "mild" 95" modification done to it, ie: ported heads, S&S 570 cam, 10:1 compression with KB Pistons....it was quite powerful for the weight of the bike.....however there was enough historical issues with the set up of the bike that it essentially became unreliable thus another effort to offset the previous problems was employed....at the end of the day....yes the bike was quite fast.....and handled well in a straight line....but did nothing for me in the "curves" so....eventually the "thrill" wore off....and I purchased an FXR.....now I have the "thrill" all the time....so do you want "fast" or a "thrill" all of the time....?


Regards,

"Classic"

[Flat Dog]

Straight line thrill is good, since the dyna will never handle like my old FXR.

I suppose if compression is still good and the cylinder walls are clean, I could pop in a new set of lifters, bearing, 51 cam and the cometic gaskets, altho may as well bore the jugs and pop in a fresh set of pistons. Probably have to ditch the stock CV as well, altho I want to see if I can get it to work before resorting to a shorty.

[Buddy WMC]

John,

I think you know where my engine specs are at. With 10.5 to 1 static there is no problem with the right cam, ignition system, head and base gasket thicknesses and so forth. I sent my SE heads up to Larry's Machine and had them ported, I'd suggest you do the same as he knows what he is doing with them. I'm also running a Super E.

Make sure if you do that, to have the SE springs swapped out for B-Hives and the Viton seals installed. If Larry ports the chambers, figure on decking them about .010 to get them back to 72cc's. I'm also running forged CP flat top pistons at 9.5 to 1 (10.5 with the SE heads), instead of the domed SE's. The dyno seems to indicate that the engine was done right. I can pick up a little more in the way of numbers by going to a 2 into 1 header system. Not likely as I hate the looks and the prices (lol). Keep us posted if we can help.

Also look at the V-Thunder line of NG cams comparible to the stats on the Andrews before making a decision. You'll find the ramp design to be much quieter and easier on the valvetrain. We decided to go with the EVL 5015 NG in the FXR, on Larry and V-Thunders advice. The SE heads flow more air and like lift to flow the best, even more importantly if they have been ported. You will lose a little low end either way by using the SE heads, that's why some guys complain about them. They can be a real asset with the correct combination as our dyno numbers indicate.

[Flat Dog]

Much appreciated Buddy-those cams look mighty interesting, and I may just get by with a happy medium stock piston 9.5:1 CR with a 5015 and re using the old gear. Trying to stay within a smaller budget for the 'toy' build...twinkie tapped me out!

[Buddy WMC]

John,
I used my factory gear as well, remember to double check the piston to valve clearance if using a stock piston. The SE valves are larger and the valve reliefs may have to be flycut. That was not a problem with the CP's as they were made for the combo, but we checked them anyways. I'd also recommend going to a roller rocker arm with a higher lift cam. Can't beat the TP's, they can be had for about $200.00 a set.

[jsachs1]

John,
2 things with SE Evo heads.
Check valve to valve - Especially with the 2 Andrews cams you're considering.
Use a cam with some lift to it.
John

[Reddog74usa]

I would have John Sachs do up the heads and match up a cam for you. He's in your neck of the woods and will make sure it will run good in that Fl. heat.

[Flat Dog]

The EV59 was actually one of John's suggestions.

[ClassicRider2002]

Here is a Topical Discussion That Might Relate To This Discussion As Well:

EVO CASES AND HP?
<~~~~CLICK VIEW, AND READ


Regards,

"Classic"

[Flat Dog]

Thanks Classic. I am almost wishing I wouldn't have opened this can of worms and leave the motor stock, but with over 40k on the clock, freshening and some performance work will be fun in the end.

Besides, power crapping out at 3-4k with that stock cam in there is boring. I am a heart patient, and need some excitement...but not the $3k it looks like it will take to really build it like I want it. LOL

[Flat Dog]

Got a great deal and have both the EV59 and the Fireball 5010. Supposedly both will work with a 9.5:1 motor, but the 5010 seems to be more street/lower compression friendly. Anyone want to buy a brand new EV59 for $100?

[Buddy WMC]

John,

Have you decided yet on what you'll be doing to the engine in the big picture?

[Flat Dog]

Buddy,

I'll probably stay with the slightly milder (9.5:1)  build to avoid potential reliability problems in the summer Florida heat. I don't want to have to pull back the ignition curve so far that it's in a past year, ya know? 

However-if the pistons/rings are worn when the heads come off, I'll go with the SE 10.5:1 higher compression pistons, and still stay with the v-thunder 5010 for the high lift/shorter duration compared to the Andrews. The head porter helping me build the motor says to go for the Andrews-the more cam the better, but I prefer to err on the side of reliability and the less harsh ramps as per your suggestion. As long as I come in at 80-85 usable HP and torque without detonation, I'll be a happy scooter tramp.

[Evo1]

John,

When I went through my 90 with 92,000 on it, we found that the cylinders only needed to be honed so the new rings could seat. Kept the stock pistons added SE heads, ignition, air cleaner and opened up the exhuast. Still has the stock cam and runs great, loves to pass trucks. I will be changing the cam this spring and am leaning towards the EV27.

Steve

[Flat Dog]

Steve, didn't you lose a lot of off the line ummph using those heads without a high lift cam? Seems most of the local people I talk to are telling me to keep the stock pistons and use the high lift/short duration cam for reliability and longevity. I just want the rear tire to come off when I twist the wick without blowing up the motor. 

[Evo1]

John,

It's no barn burner off the line, but I don't feel that I've lost anything either. I wanted long term reliability and highway ommph. In 07 I took my youngest son to Yellowstone (4,000 miles) and had no problems pulling a heavy trailer. Even the mountians were not a problem other than the sucky stock brakes (soon to be changed)! I feel that the EV27 will give me the added low end tourque that will round out the package and make it a great every day bike. Some day I'll build a fire breather for a toy. Good luck with your project.

Steve

[bobrk1]

A light bike light the dyna should have no problem with 10 to 1 comp, but a cam like your talking about only makes power after you get the revs up. A friend ran the 46 and I have a HQ cam which is like the EV27 and just riding around if we went to take off I jump on it and he would have to downshift to get moving, its Ok if you gonna beat on it all the time but all around I'd go with the EV 27 you get more of a rpm range. Just my 2 cents.

[Evo1]

In my view, on the street you want torque and on the track you want horsepower. I seldom hit the rpm range in which horsepower takes over. I ride a bagger and use it to commute 300+ miles most weekends. I want performance in a package that is eazy to ride in everyday situations and MUST have reliability. By keeping the CR to 9.5 to 1 I find that regular gas works well with out preignition. I do wish that I would have looked into installing compression releases at the time of the build.

Steve

[PanHeadRed]

Buddy, can you post the flow numbers of the SE Heads?

[Buddy WMC]

Somewhere close to 240 total @ 550 lift, the S&S intake was also ported. Decided to keep the Super E instead of going to a G to help keep the velocity up. Can't tell all of the secrets though (LOL). It's very easy to make an EVO engine  produce 1HP per cubic inch and still be reliable. It's all in how you go about it, how much money you wish to spend and what you want your bike to accomplish.

The best advice I can give anyone is to do your research and talk with some of the great guys here. That and picking the brains of some knowlegable technicians helped me to obtain my goal. Doing my own teardown and reassembly work also saved a bunch of $$$. We know that more is there, maybe a little less duration on the cam and for sure the exhaust system is costing us some HP and torque.

[Hillside Motorcycle]

You said it.
Super-easy to 1 hp/inch from 80"s even with bolt-in cams.

[Flat Dog]

so should I just go for broke and pony up for the 10.5:1 SE pistons now, as well as the Dyna ignition so I can dial the spark advance back? I'm concerned that the cylinder studs will need to be replaced with the higher ratio as well.

Trying to stay on a somewhat tight budget here rather than going even more gonzo with the cash since I am still out of work from being run over.

[Buddy WMC]

Nope,

If you have a Dyna you should have the newer style studs. Make sure you use new headbolts though and your pistons need to be at 10.5 with the SE heads installed. Otherwise your CR will be a point higher or 11.5 to 1.

Yep,
You gotta go for the ignition system to have the adjustablility. You are already going to change to a Pro Pipe, a Mikuni, larger cam and the SE heads and pistons. Do not forget adjustable pushrods, new lifters and the Torrington cam bearing when doing your swap.

If that's not enough, save a few $$$ for a dyno session cause you are going to need it!!

[Flat Dog]

Funny, but I thought making an Evo scream would be a breeze like the shovel was.

I cheated with a sidewinder kit on the shovel...

Thanks for all of the suggestions Buddy!!!