My 95 Biuld, Now complete with ~ 1000 miles.

[ΚĜΗΟŜΤ]

Well I am finally doing it after 6 years of running a stock 2004 softail standard 88 B motor Carbed. ( CV 40) with all the right guts..............lol Have a lot of jets, needles, slides and other misc parts to get it right.

I do not have the confidence to do the entire build considering the $$$ I have spent on parts and machine work and prep.

The build,

2007 heads, 200 miles when purchased, ported by local guy, machined guides installed, Kibble white valve with matching springs for build.
Stock CC's, based on numbers with pistons should yield correct compression ratio ~ 10:1 and ~ .035 squish

Intake, also modified by head porter, blended, epoxied and cleaned up to match heads

Cylinders are from another bike that had less than 2000 miles on them, bored and honed to match pistons.

Screaming eagle forged pistons

.030 MLS head gaskets

Revolution reworked crank for a 88 B motor, trued, welded, plugged. run out on spec sheet .001"

Two new "Lefty" crank bearings

R&R billet cam plate for 00 to 06 twin cam allowing the use of the '07 and later HD oil pump,

New, New style HD oil pump. '07 and later

S&S 570 G cams

New B148 bearings

New B lifters with S&S travel limiters.

DTT adjustable ignition module

Jims Pro lite push rods

Screaming eagle clutch pack

VPC 83T  ( been using this for 5 years)

3:37 primary ( been using this for 5 years)

hb 125 tensioner  ( been using this for 5 years)


Well the engine parts listed were purchased over the last year or so and all the work has been done over the past couple of months. This allowed me to ride right up to the time for the shop to schedule my bike in for the build. I gave them a lot of flexabilty and time to get all there other stuff done so there was no need to ruch mine through.........if you know what I mean!

I dropped the bike off Monday of this past week (21rst) and it is completely apart and reassembly will happen this comming week. Should be ready by wednesday or thursday of this comming week the 30th or July 1rst!!

Mechanic will inspect and measure all crank critical areas (to make sure Revolutions work is good) and all areas that need to be checked ( deck height, cam gear back lash etc etc ) and make necessary adjustment or additional machine work or parts purchases if needed before and during assembly and all data will be recorded for my records.

If all goes well this should put me in the 100/100 area............

will break it in for ~ 1000 miles and when done, Will schedule DYNO time with a local place to dial it in and will post the results!!

This may not be the baddest build but it should be almost bullit proof and very streetable and dependable.

I know there were many routes to take and many other builds that could have netted a lot more but this is what I chose as my first HD build out.

I will keep you posted when it is done and hopefully I will be able to wipe the "Potty mouth" eaten grin off my face long enough to re post.........

[05FLHTC]

Nice the only "red flag" that jumps out at me is your selection of SE forged pistons & yr statement about corrected compression.

I hope you meant the "static compression" will be set to 10.0.1...? 

Keep us posted 

[ΚĜΗΟŜΤ]

The SE forged pistons were the reccomendation of the builder as he has used and had success with this exact combo.

The calculated compression with zero deck hieght and stock cc's with the '07 heads.(I dont have the data here with me right now)

I am not 100% sure what you are questioning though..

Could you elaborate a bit???

[05FLHTC]

Yup same concerns that should be addressed with any combo cam...what will yr cranking compression end up at?

If the SE pistons are forged that iirc correctly all the SE forged pistons have raised domes. That raised dome has to be accounted for when setting your head CC volume.

IME the S&S 570 cams work there best at about 185 CCP, just hoping that yr builder is setting yrs up in that range.

Some old school builders may not be "in tune" pun intended with today's chit fuel and the fuel qualities that we all expect to be even more of a challenge in the future.

A very wise member here that is currently not posting anymore used to remind us...it's all about the "DETAILS"

Good luck & keep us posted.

[ThumperDeuce]

Whats the deal with using two left side bearings in the cases?  Are they both Timken style?  What are the benefits and what is envolved in doing the conversion?

[ΚĜΗΟŜΤ]

03 and later did not have timkens, they had rollers on both sides.

I think last year they HD came out with a heavy duty replacement roller bearing now standard on all new models. I am replacing the original weaker roller bearings with the new and improved "lefty"and it fits both sides...

As far as the ccp, Yes we took all of that into consideration. The heads were not cut to the ~ 79 cc's reccomended for flat tops as per normal builds posted here in the past. I know they are in the 80's cc's ( I think 86-88 cc's), but I do not have the numbers here.

The calculation with the cc's of the heads worked out to be about the same as with flat tops and 79 cc's.

The froged piston dome volume is ~ 7cc's +/- 1cc, I forget specifically but it is all written down as it was measured. I have an excel spread sheet printed and saved to my other computer........

Thanks for explaining your concerns, I appriciate all feed back.

[ΚĜΗΟŜΤ]

Well I was down at the shop, trouble shooting a outboard issue on the owners boat and my motor is almost back together. Waiting on a couple of small additional items that were determined to be needed during the build.

Here are some measurements from the old and the new.

OLD CRANK, pinion side run out     .006"
                 primary side              .013"

My oil pump was good and only minor scoring on the cam plate, chain tensioners looked very very good for 21000.00 miles



New heaed cc's were 84,

deck hieght is   -.003 (= below cylinder top surface) Builder did not see the need to make it zero he felt it would be good.

The new to me crank (Revolution performance rebuilt) every item check was right on the money!! builder says one of the best he's seen in a while.

So if the 84 cc heads plus the -.003" deck hieght sand the 7 cc domes on the pistons, should this keep me in the acceptable range for 185-190 ccp??

My sense says I should be fine but if someone who has a good calculator let me know what it works out to.

Thanks

[Ozbernie]

My build is very similar except with the Andrews TW37 cams and is almost ready for its first startup. Best of luck with it all KGHOST. Good fun aint it

[02FYRFTR]

84cc heads, 7 cc domes,.030" head gasket,-.003" deck heigth,3.875" bore,4.000" stroke yields 10.39:1 static and 199.8 ccp.  You had better be sure to have compression releases.  You may want to reconsider your cam selection.

[mayor]

I agree with '05 and '02, your static compression is probably much higher than you think.  Here's a thread on the SE forged volume:
http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,1419.msg11700.html#msg11700
Panheadred measured them to be 8cc. 

like 02 said, you may want to reconsider your cam choice. 

[ΚĜΗΟŜΤ]

I would like to clearify something I hope is missunderstood.

The pistons are down in the cylinders, the flat area below the dome is .003 below the cylinder top.

Would you say then that my volume is cc's is greater then zero deck height? Would that not then decrease my CCP due to increased volume?

[05FLHTC]

Sure will but that being down in the hole will also create a sloppy squish area & at 10.? CR it will be ping prone.

Always shoot for ZERO deck and make the needed CC volume in the head combustion chambers...

[Admiral Akbar]

A 35 is too loose?? Gimme a brake...  CCP / corrected is on the aggressive side..  tho..  Will need a real good tuner and gas..  Max

[ΚĜΗΟŜΤ]

OK I will call and speak to the builder today. The heads are not installed yet so adjustments can be made.

Also to note is we have 93 octane availble here and I have an adjustable ignition is being used.

The squish I estimated at in the .030 head gasket compressed thickness + the .003 should be ~ .033"

Is this correct? or is there something else I need to consider. I am using the flat area outside the dome for my calculation.

[mayor]

.033" squish would be fine...but as tight as your squeezing that cam, it's doubtfull that your build would be ping free even if you were .003" tighter (which is a very small number by the way).   

since the heads aren't on yet, you could always have the builder pull the pistons and mill a little off the dome.  Milling 4cc off would put you around 10:1 static. 

[roadking705]

Not much of a wrench, but while you were at it, why didn't you go with a gear drive vs using the chain tensioners? 

[mayor]

Not much of a wrench, but while you were at it, why didn't you go with a gear drive vs using the chain tensioners? 

he did go gear drive, the 570's are G's (meaning gear drive). 

[05FLHTC]

A 35 is too loose?? Gimme a brake...  CCP / corrected is on the aggressive side..  tho..  Will need a real good tuner and gas..  Max

Loose quench along with dome pistons & large CPP...hmmm what does that spell ?

[harleytoprock]

Don't forget the grooves!

[ΚĜΗΟŜΤ]

Well my build is complete and I have put ~ 260 miles on it so far.

I missed some riding time over the last couple of weeks due to the temp and boating so I have not put too many miles on it yet.

Boating and beer drinking has been the desired destination..........lol

Anyway here is the final set up for break in.

DTT88A set to 3 advance and 5 slope and 5200 red line.
CV 40, sportster needle, 195 main, 50 pilot ( keep it good and wet ).

So far I have been keeping it below 4000 rpms,

The first 150 miles kept it below 3200 rpms, running between 2000 and 3200 varying it on back road driving only. No prolonged idling, no hard running.
At 50 miles first oil change, at 150 miles 2nd oil change. Next oil change will be between 400 and 500 miles.

Since I hit 200 miles I have been taking the revs up a bit higher, to ~ 3600 to 4200. Once in a while I will bump it up to 5000.

The motor runs very well, Always fires on the second revolution!! Hot or cold!!

I am running 3.37:1 primary ratio and I will say I reach max rpms and speed a whole lot faster now.......She spins up real quick.

Love the new tone, a clean hard snap out the pipes. Idles mint at 900 ish and has a nice lope, almost a perfect potatoe, potatoe..........

Once I reach 500 miles I will rejet the carb and increase my timing settings and see how well it performs.

SO FAR   

[surf]

Congatulatios!    Enjoy

[ΚĜΗΟŜΤ]

Ok reached 500 miles, going to do one more dino oil change then 500 more miles.

I have swapped out the 50 pilot jet and installed a 48.

As far as the DTT I am currently set at 3 advance and 5 slope.

Anyone suggest what may be a better or typical settings for this biuld.

Remember I have 93 octane here......

Thanks.

[ΚĜΗΟŜΤ]

UPDATE:

Well I am at 1000 miles on my biuld. So far I love the way it runs. I will be setting up a dyno session within the next two weeks to get a tune.

Running 93 octane and this past weekend two up ran about 170 miles mixed back roads and some highway ~ 70 mph. Averaged 40 mile per gallon...........Based on using 1/4 tank in ~ 50+ miles and 100+ miles with 1/2 tank used in a 5.2 gallon tank

Here is my spec sheet for anyones info. I feel I did it right and this should be a good strong biuld and last for many miles/years...






[attachment removed after 60 days by system]

[05FLHTC]

Congrads & glad it turned out great & is runnning good.

Hope ya have many miles & smiles 

The 3 & 5 DTT settings you are currently at are optimum IME & IMO. If it starts to ping, or labor with hot starts you could drop the initial dial down some...that that is a nice WOT timing curve with the slope at 5.

Have you checked the CCP yet?

[ΚĜΗΟŜΤ]

No I have not, I have been busy with other issues in most of my free time (if you want to call it that) so when I can I just ride to get some miles.

I will say this, no compression releases and no starting issues cold or hot, also installed a 310CCA battery just to be sure......I had my original '04 battery that work fine but I figured its days were numbered.........lol

Could you elaborate on the timing settings and why you say 3 and five.

I am currently set to 4 and 6.

Please explain what the bsic differences are and what they affect...

Thanks