What do you say?

[RK101]

I was eating breakfast with some friends the other day and we were talking about motors. The conversation got around to at what speed did we think a 88" Harley with a 5spd gear box was the happiest. I've always thought it was somewhere between 70 and 75 Mph. where the motor was just kind of cruising along working to it's peak and getting the proper amount of air to keep it running at the desired temps. The conversation got started by a guy who said my bike would be better with a six speed. I sort of disagreed because my bike is just a little past being a stock bike and although the RPM's might be less the motor just might be working harder to keep it at 70/75 mph. What do you say?

[Big Dan]

I tend to cruise in what I call "the sweet spot." Right where you need the least throttle to maintain speed, and the exhaust note becomes almost a whisper. For my bike, that's around 80 to 85 mph. I'm guessing that at that "sweet" speed, I'm right where the motor is making either peak torque, peak horsepower, or right where the lines cross. I know she really likes to run there.

I'd like to have a six speed, but only so I could run different primary or final gearing for more out of the hole fun. I'd probably still cruise in the sweet spot, no matter what the mph. I just seem to find that spot and stay there.

Edit: I just went and looked at my dyno sheet, and it is definitely right where she makes peak torque.

[RK101]

Dan the one thing I do notice that to much past 70 my MPG starts taking a dump. 70/75 MPH is about as much as the popo is going to let us get away with, Anything after that they have a tendency to break out the pen and paper and start writing. 

[Tsani]

Rk - My bike seems happest about there as well. And while a six speed might be nice, I can't justify the cost for a 300 rpm change. I don't get the better with a six speed bit. Nice, maybe. Better, not necessarily. That six gear isn't a true overdrive.

[scoopfraser]

I gotta agree with the 70-75 mph range (5th gear, 3.15 final ratio).  I don't go into 5th until those speeds and like to keep the engine between 3,000 and 3,500 rpm for effortless cruising.  

Sean
----

[~JC~]

I would even go a bit farther, and say it is 72-73mph. The sound and vibration simply changes when I hit that spot. The bike cruises well at 85, but it certainly is working harder. ~JC~

[Big Dan]

I'm thinking it varies from bike to bike, and with mods. Mine has definitely changed over the years. I don't conciously cruise that fast, it's just where I always seem to end up. I refuse to take the lead if we're riding Interstate because of it.

[RK101]

That's what I was thinking Tsani, is one more gear and 300 rpm less really better for the motor at those speeds or is the motor working harder to keep it there,or does 300 RPM really matter at all. If 300 RPM really doesn't matter at those speeds then why do I need a six speed.
Scoopfraser with the 26 cams in there dropping it into 5 gear at around 55mph is no problem. She still pulls like a train. JC your right, If I had to pick a speed with little or no head/tail wind I'd have to say 72 mph seems to be the sweetspot according to my speedo.

[Gonzo]

I have the 6 speed in my Evo, but I really dont use 6th very often. About 80, and I'll slip into the next gear. Hasnt done "Potty mouth" for my gas mileage though.

[alstar2]

my 2000 rk 95" 21n cams.got to agree 3000 - 3200 rpm,72 -75 is the sweet spot
& keeps the mileage & popo happy.
  Al

[Tsani]

RK - Naw, the motor shouldn't be working harder, less R's is less wear and tear? Less fuel consumed? I don't know about that because is it more effiecient? What about the cost? More power can be had for less cost. To me, the Six speed is more about comfort and I don't quite buy that either. Some say on the long haul that 300 rpm makes a difference for them. I don't have any problems with mine as is right now. The way the Harley six speed is set up you shift sooner in each gear now and you gain a slight reduction in rpm in top gear, at least thats what I understand. Someone correct me if that's not right. Buddies of mine with the newer bikes like to brag how they can roll away from me at speed. Well sure, you have a 96 cube engine, so is it the tranny or the engine!? No replacement for displacement! Gear to gear, I will give them a run for their money. It's like bicycles. We grew up with one gear, work hard getting there and just cruise at a lope on flat ground. Three speeds allowed you to do inclines a little easier, top end the same. Now I have a twenty one speed, allows me to handle different grades while maintaining the same relative effort -sometimes-. But if I want to go faster or quicker, Me the motor, has to provide the power no matter what. Simple physics. Power in = Power out. No gettng around that.  Efficiency is another matter. One thing I have noticed over the years with Harleys is that most riders -don't/won't- use their gears to the max. I don't know why not. I learned to wind my gears out in my pan and I do the same in the Deluxe. Makes a hellava difference. I am hitting 70 or eighty in third went most of my freinds are in forth , most likey higher. Of course, riding situtation has a lot to do with it too. I don't waste time making my moves on the Surekill! You know what I mean! Cruising speed is a different deal all together and that is where the idea of another gear makes sense to me, but not the cost. If I had another couple of extra grand, maybe. Didn't someone just come out with a Seven speed for Harleys? Where do we stop with it?

[JamLazyAss]

I see that quite a few people are making comments about a six speed transmission.

But I have to ask, what is the attraction?
To me, I wouldn't want one even if the motor ran a little "happier" with it.
I can't stand shifting five times.
The old four speeds were enough for me.
Hell, if I could put a three speed in my RK I would.
Maybe I'm just living up to my name,

JamLazyAss

[RK101]

I'm in no way interested in making mine a six speed, it was just some discussion going across the breakfast table in a local diner, with the usual suspects I hang out with.  I just figured I'd like to hear what you guys thought about it, and figured we'd kick it around some on a cold winter day a little more. Seems as though where we're at with this is that somewhere between 70/75 is the sweet spot for most. The six speed seems to have some good points and some not so good.  I'm happy with the way my 04 runs and I'm not changing anything except oil and tires and that's a whole other topic.
Maybe we should save those for February. 

[Tsani]

I hear ya RK. I know I didn't have any issues keeping up with ya out there with the rest of the crew. Like you said, I am happy with it the way it is and thats what counts. Of course, that new 26n cam is sweeeeet!

[HIPPO]

Two of the three TC's I had felt happiest at 4000 rpm, the other one at about 3500, but they were all pre 02

[RK101]

Tsani, Those 26 cams IMO are a great bang for the buck. There might be better out there now, but those sure work for me.

[fxstdavew]

 Mine is happy at 80 mph and still averages 49-50 mpg. This all relevant to the build you have

[egstandard]

I agree with JC. My bikes sweet spot is also 72-74 mph. I can't remember what rpm that is though. It's a 5 speed and I see no reason for 6. Any faster and mileage drops.

[randallwhitman]

Any bike with an unbalanced, solid mounted motor (pan, shovel, or evo) is improved dramatically with a six speed.  It's the vibration that we're talking about here.  With a balanced softtail, any touring framed model, or any Dyna model, vibration really is not an issue.  What I've said is particularly true with a stroker motor that doesn't have the benefit of a counter balancer or rubber mounting.  I know......I have been through about five rubber glides since 1984, and have owned a 103" shovel since 1985.  The shovel is in a four speed frame.  First I had the four speed.  Then I went to a Sputhe 5 in a 4 box.  Then I went to a JIMS six speed about two years ago......70 mph at 2500 rpm.  Best thing I ever did for that old bike and my old butt.  Randy

[HroadhogD1]

   I guess you guys would't want one of the Bakers 7 speeds then huh?       

[Tsani]

No. 

[Ultrashovel]

I see that quite a few people are making comments about a six speed transmission.

But I have to ask, what is the attraction?
To me, I wouldn't want one even if the motor ran a little "happier" with it.
I can't stand shifting five times.
The old four speeds were enough for me.
Hell, if I could put a three speed in my RK I would.
Maybe I'm just living up to my name,

JamLazyAss

I agree on this point. I really don't like to shift. I'm prfectly happy with a four speed. If I could, I'd like to have a big stroker with a close-ratio three-speed. All of this preoccupation with more and more speeds is just a waste of money as I see it.

My 88" was geared too high with 3.15:1 so I changed to 3.37:1. With a five-speed, it's right on the button. 

The newer ones with the 96" engne are geared way, way too high. Lugging a motor is not good. You'd have to be in a lower gear even in traffic. I don't see the point.

I even heard that some of the manufacturers are building seven-speed transmissions. I don't want one of those, either. That's just plain silly. WIth seven-speeds, you'd be shifting all of the time. No thanks.

If you get a six-speed (or seven-speed), you might want to spend another $900 and get a Pingel electric shifter. I just installed one and it's the cat's meow. They're real shiny, too. Heh heh. I could probably shift a ten-speed with that but i'd forget what gear I was in. Ha.

[shovelmonster76]

I don't have a tach but around 65 I have to change in to 5th on my 88 in. shovel.(cheaper model aftermarket tranny) So 65 around the backroads and about 80 on the highway is when she sings the sweetest song. Can't remember ratio but seems to work out fine and gets me around. 

[seattledyna]

75 to 80 is the perfect speed for my '95 evo bagger, it will be interesting to see how the 09 with the six speed feels when I get out on the open freeway to compare, didnt they change the ratios again for 09?

[JONNIEROCK]

         I have one of each. The 6 speed is alright. The six speed came with the bike for the same price, which is OK, but I wouldn't pay extra, for a 300 RPM difference. Just my opinion.
                                                 Jonnierock