Futher Frame details needed and frame repair questions

[Little Al]

so in my previous post about my frame their seemed to be a bit of disagreement on the year of the frame. I've already decided I'm gonna use it on my '54 FL but in closer examination I found the following. I consulted Palmer's as best I could but I'm not that good at researching I guess, or maybe I just don't know how to read? lol.

left rear axle slot: XE-7
http://s726.photobucket.com/albums/ww263/LittleAl_2008/1954%20PanHead/?action=view&current=leftrearaxle.jpg

Right rear axle slot: XE-6
http://s726.photobucket.com/albums/ww263/LittleAl_2008/1954%20PanHead/?action=view&current=rightrearaxle.jpg

under seat post area: 48E-1
http://s726.photobucket.com/albums/ww263/LittleAl_2008/1954%20PanHead/?action=view&current=seatframebottom1.jpg

so these pics may help you guys further define what year it might be.

More important, one of the left front motor mount holes is stripped and a lousy repair was done to it. I'm looking for suggestions on a good solid, neat fix
http://s726.photobucket.com/albums/ww263/LittleAl_2008/1954%20PanHead/?action=view&current=leftfrontmount1.jpg

Next, obviously someone decided to weld a plate over the seat mounting tube. should I try and cut it off or maybe just drill a hole through it a bit larger then the tube, then have the edge of the hole welded to the top of the tube (would be nice & strong right?)
http://s726.photobucket.com/albums/ww263/LittleAl_2008/1954%20PanHead/?action=view&current=seatframetop.jpg
http://s726.photobucket.com/albums/ww263/LittleAl_2008/1954%20PanHead/?action=view&current=seatframebottom1.jpg

I also need some help on details for the tool box mount. someone apparently cut everything out that should be there? I thought their was a flat mounting plate between the top & bottom rail. any idea on the size, positioning of the plate? pictures would be great maybe with some measurements to go along with it?
http://s726.photobucket.com/albums/ww263/LittleAl_2008/1954%20PanHead/?action=view&current=toolboxarea.jpg

The lock is in the neck, no key though. any way to get it out without ruining it? thinking i should take the frame to a locksmith and let him see if he can get it out, make a key, whatever. if i drill it out are replacements available?

Last question in this series (lol, thanks!) After I do/have done all these repairs I was thinking of powdercoating the frame, then thought I'd save the cash & just have it painted. i know PC is better (did it on my '83 Shovel) but since this won't be my daily ride I'm thinking it was originally painted so...


whew, I type ALOT!

thanks guys!

[Deye76]

As far as powdercating is concerned, yes it will hold up better, but be sure you can live with the color, cause it's way harder to remove.

[moose]

al

see if you can read the key numbers on the front lock. most old time locksmiths can still make the key from the code. I just had mine done 2 weeks ago and it works fine.

[Little Al]

Deye, good point but mostly because i just assumed black was the frame color used originally. anyone know if they used frame colors other then black in '54?

Moose, no numbers or markings on the lock at all. i have no objection to drilling it out as long as i can get a replacement. if not I'd rather leave it in even if un-usable

[Deye76]

Deye, good point but mostly because i just assumed black was the frame color used originally. anyone know if they used frame colors other then black in '54?

Moose, no numbers or markings on the lock at all. i have no objection to drilling it out as long as i can get a replacement. if not I'd rather leave it in even if un-usable

Some police bikes had white frames. Not sure which years.

[Little Al]

well then I will stick with black. Probably gonna go with paint rather then the powder coat.

I'll have to make a decision after I get the other frame issues I mentioned straightened out

[04customking]

Little Al, I powdercoated my frame black and I'm very happy with it. If complete originality is what you're after then I believe you need paint, but for a driver I wanted the resistance to chipping and the lasting good looks of the pc. I had to do alot of repairs to my frame before I had it done. The loops were gone and I remade them, and the rear stand mount tabs were gone and had to remake them to but I'm very glad to have a frame that looks original even if I know it isn't perfect. Looking at you're frame I think you can get that plate off without too much problem, and grind and smooth the tubes underneath to look nice. Time and patience are the biggest factors. You'll be glad you did when you're done.
Jim

[Little Al]

Jim, I do understand the value of PC that's why i did it on the '83 which IS my daily rider. This '54 never will be although I do expect I'll put around 5K a year on it. I, like you, won't worry about perfect, nor restoration, I just want it to look right. And like you, I'll be glad when it's done if I don't rush it. I made that mistake when I did my '83 Shovel 10 years ago, cheaped out on some stuff and rushed through some things to get her back on the road and in the end I wound up completely redoing her 3 years later. I now have 7 years and 40K on that second rebuild. I will NOT do that with the Pan!

I think your right about the plate, obviously I'll have to do something to get the seat on! Since you also have a '54, any chance you have a picture of the tool box mounting on the frame? I can't seem to find anything that really shows how the mount is attached to the frame.

I happen to have a really good local welder, been in business over 75 years, third generation still owns it and welds every day. 3 blocks from my local HD dealer (been a HD dealer since 1928, oldest family owned HD dealer in the country) they've used him all these years. Ity was actually funny when I brought in my Shovel inner primary to see if he could weld a broken bolt tab back on and he knew what it was and the problem as I walked into the shop with it. From across the room he said "shovel primary? bet ya the 2 front tabs broke off" and laughed. he told me he'd done 1000's over the years.

Anyway, I'm eventually gonna put the frame in his hands with some pics when I can get some. I'd prefer to fabricate the tool box mount myself, drill or remove that plate under the seat myself and let him weld up what's needed and fix the motor mount hole. I still need advise on the motormount hole repair and most important the tool box mounting pictures


Thanks all

[04customking]

I'm sorry, I didn't re-install the mount on mine because I put a disc brake on mine. The softail caliper I used fits perfectly between the frame rails where the box would be. You can buy the mount from several places and it does weld in place. I looked it up in the V-twin catalog and on pg 611 it shows it and the part # is 31-0528. It lists for $39.82. No sense in trying to make it yourself.
Also, here is a link to a site with dimensions as to where to place it. Not very clear but see if it helps.  Jim

http://www.hydra-glide.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=39

[Little Al]

Did a little research while waiting for a description and or pics from someone on the toolbox mounting for my '54:

NOSPARTS shows 2 parts.
one covers 40-51 and is essentially just a strip with curved end to wrap around frame tubes for welding ($25.00) (R3457-40B)
the other covers 55-57 and is basically a square with a curved bottom edge to wrap around frame tubes for welding ($22.00) (R64450-55)

V-TWIN shows the same two types (at much higher prices!)
31-0525 is a strip type stating 48-54 ($66.50) but when checking price/availability says 48-53
31-0655 is same but states REPLICA 48-53 and that one is $83.17
31-0528 is the square type stating REPLICA 54-57 for $39.82 but when checking price/availability says 55-57

Anyone have a clue on which TYPE is the correct one for a 1954 FL?

I just want to get the right style of mount for my year.
also, general opinions/comparisons on quality/price of V-Twin and NOS? I don't want to waste money, neither by overpaying for the same quality part NOR by paying a cheap price for an inferior part.

Thanks guys!

[Little Al]

Jim,

apparently we were typing at the same time, lol

thanks for the link

[04customking]

Little Al, if you have palmers book, look on page 37. It shows the square mount that ours takes and the caption says 1952-1957 Big Twin frame tool box mount. On page 39 it shows another pic of a late 1954-1957 frame. If you don't have the book I'll scan the pic for you later today.
Jim

[Little Al]

Thanks Jim, I do have Palmer's but as I've stated before, ain't too good as researching in books, lol Don't know if it's the old eyes, old brain or what, but everytime I go looking in palmer's for something specific I wind up off in a totally different direction, lol

Thanks, at least now I know which one to buy.

[04customking]

Glad I can finally help someone.   

[Little Al]

man do I know THAT feeling, lol.
I sometimes hope to find a question so simple I can  answer it AND be correct AND before 8000 others answer it, LOL

[Pzokes]

Don't drill out the lock!  A good locksmith will be able to make a key from a blank.  A good locksmith will want to see a bill-of-sale for the frame before doing the work, to make sure that it's not stolen.  On many original bikes the neck lock had the tumblers and the ignition key lock had no tumbler.  I usually have the locksmith key them the same.

Many of the replacement locks that are sold don't have a stop, and may need something to limit travel.  The lock tumbler is held in by a very small pin that runs through the frame and the tumbler.  this can be carfully drilled out and some people replace the pin with a small broken drill bit or drift pin.  The plug on the front of the neck can be removed (it pops out) to get better access to lubricate the old fork locking pin.

[Little Al]

I suspected that a good locksmith could do it.

Thanks for explaining how to get it out. I looked at the frame, the exploded views in the parts manual and the service manual and couldn't figure it out. Now I won't have to take the frame out, just the lock assembly and bring that to them. great idea on the lock and ignition being keyed alike, would have regretted it later because i wouldn't have given it a thought.

Thanks

[Little Al]

Ok Pzokes, so where is that very small pin holding the lock in?

I have the frame in my kitchen, good lighting, had my glasses on (yep, getting old, lol) and can't find a thing. i assume it's on the protrusion from the neck that the lock actually fits into but I see nothing. so is it top, bottom, front or rear? the frame has no paint on it, actually glass bead blasted by the guy i bought it frombut I just don't see a hole or pin end anywhere. if you could tell me where to look maybe i could do a little scraping with a razor blade or something to try and find the edge of it

Thanks 

[Little Al]

here's a close up of the lock & neck if it helps:

http://s726.photobucket.com/albums/ww263/LittleAl_2008/1954%20PanHead/?action=view&current=IMG_1392.jpg

[CraigArizona85248]

I thought the pin was located at about the 1 o'clock position if you were looking directly at the key end of the lock barrel.  About 1/2" out from the frame.  Look close, someone may have filled the hole with something.

-Craig

[Little Al]

Thanks Craig!

and nice hijack and edit of my picture! lol Someday i gotta figure out how to do that stuff

tonight when I get home from work I'll take an extra close look, maybe a magnifying glass...

[04customking]

Little Al, this thread on www.hydra-glide.net was very helpful when I had to remake my whole lock setup. Maybe the pics will help show you what you're looking for.

http://www.hydra-glide.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=66&hilit=neck+lock

[Little Al]

Excellent thread Jim! very informative and filled with pictures to make the whole thing easier for me.

I'm a member there too (hydra-glide.net) but rarely go there. Don't know why, it's pretty good but somehow HTT just feels like home for me and it has all the forums for all my bikes to boot. I can tell by the names many guys from HTT also belong there too. Maybe i should go there more often, but.... lol

Thanks again for the link and info.

Little Al

[04customking]

I know exactly what you mean, I only check in there once a week or so. I'm sure I'm probably wrong, but I feel like I have to apologize over there for not having a bone stock bike. Lots of smart people there though.
Jim

[CraigArizona85248]

That is a great thread!  Huge amount so detail.
I'm also a member over there.  There are plenty of guys over there who aren't obsessed with keeping things stock.  On the other hand, I'm sure a few have fainted when I tell them about the mods to my bike.   
I doubt I'd take a original panhead hardtail frame and chop it like mine today.  But I'm not going to apologize for something that was done 38 years ago when you couldn't give those frames away.  LOL

-Craig