I thought this only happend to cars and houses!

[codyshop]

I'm hearing from more and more guys who owe more on their bike than current wholesale.  What kind of loans did these guys take out?  Yikes!

[Dennis The Menace]

Ray, it wasnt limited to houses and cars, for sure. 

They probably also added a lot of parts and bling, which isnt worth spit on used bikes now.  I can see how a bike financed at near 100% just 3 years ago could be worth high retail book, but the owner owes more than that on it.  Not that getting high retail book value is realistic anyway.  So, I am sure a lot of folks have let the bikes go back to get out of payments and they know they are upside down.  A lot of wholesaled bikes on eBay right now.

[codyshop]

True that.   I've never understood adding dealer-installed bling/options/upgrades to the initial loan amount as it's simply burned money.    I took in an '04 Wideglide today for seven that the guy still owed eight on.     

[Admiral Akbar]

Heck,

Finance a dirt bike.. Off the show room floor and your upside down easy.. Daughter just did it.. 7200 for a 2011 crf250r.

Max

[HogBag]

Not only bling
There's the whole HD uniform that go's with a new bike !!! and dont forget HD dollars the wet weather gear.

[Nooter99]

In todays economy, I would venture to say that virtually anything you buy that is 100% financed will put you upside down immediately. Houses, cars, bikes, big screen hi-def TV's, stainless appliances, the list goes on and on. The minute you buy it, it loses value, no one is going to pay full retail for something they didn't buy brand new. I haven't financed any high ticket "luxury" items in the last 7-8 years, and try to stay disciplined enough to never do it again. When it comes to things that I consider "wants" and not "needs", or an emergency, if I don't have cash, I wait until I do. I can't imagine how much money I've saved, but I'm sure it's substantial.

[One4Tone]

..i would not be too concerned about owing more than Object is worth..and the main reason is..you're paying for it with dollars that over time will devalue ..so really you come out ahead...not to mention..as far as real estate is concerned..if you can afford it..don't panic..gotta live somewhere..gotta pay rent..so if you own and pay a mortgage you build equity..the problem only arises when you have to sell cause you can no longer afford..when it's make the payment on the scooter and/or car ..or make the mortgage payment..then the toys gotta go...but only then..credit can be a wonderfull thing...but you gotta use it wisely

[FXDBI]

True story after financing the bike ,stg1 mods,pro-pipe and clothing,helmet ect on the magic 7yr HD plan guy was pissed off he didn't include the first service. He was now to broke to afford it and a dealer requirement for them to honor the warranty.....Bob

[PoorUB]

I'm hearing from more and more guys who owe more on their bike than current wholesale.  What kind of loans did these guys take out?  Yikes!

I think it is called an eight year loan, yep, eight years!
When I traded in my '05 on my '10 the finance guru asked me how many years? So I asked him how far our can I go? He told me eight years! I told him if I had to borrow money for eight years to ride I would be walking or riding a well used Honda. He said they get allot of riders financing for the whole eight. I hear for boats they lenders will go out farther yet.

[codyshop]

True story after financing the bike ,stg1 mods,pro-pipe and clothing,helmet ect on the magic 7yr HD plan guy was pissed off he didn't include the first service. He was now to broke to afford it and a dealer requirement for them to honor the warranty.....Bob

Anyone who thinks they need to go to a dealer for routine service to maintain a warranty has bigger problems than just being broke.   

[CraigArizona85248]

True story after financing the bike ,stg1 mods,pro-pipe and clothing,helmet ect on the magic 7yr HD plan guy was pissed off he didn't include the first service. He was now to broke to afford it and a dealer requirement for them to honor the warranty.....Bob

Anyone who thinks they need to go to a dealer for routine service to maintain a warranty has bigger problems than just being broke.

Yep. The guy financed the bike and his and his new costume ... Apparently he's not thinking real clear.

[FSG]

his and his new costume

well that explains it then ................   

[rbabos]

True story after financing the bike ,stg1 mods,pro-pipe and clothing,helmet ect on the magic 7yr HD plan guy was pissed off he didn't include the first service. He was now to broke to afford it and a dealer requirement for them to honor the warranty.....Bob

Anyone who thinks they need to go to a dealer for routine service to maintain a warranty has bigger problems than just being broke.

. Yup. Dealer has never seen my bike in 4 years and never will. All that's required is the SM, and the knowhow to do the work, as well as keeping oil and filter receipts and records of service intervals.
Ron

[codyshop]

True story after financing the bike ,stg1 mods,pro-pipe and clothing,helmet ect on the magic 7yr HD plan guy was pissed off he didn't include the first service. He was now to broke to afford it and a dealer requirement for them to honor the warranty.....Bob

Anyone who thinks they need to go to a dealer for routine service to maintain a warranty has bigger problems than just being broke.

Yep. The guy financed the bike and his and his new costume ... Apparently he's not thinking real clear.

HD Finance allows you to add clothing to the vehicle purchase price/loan amount?   Holy Shyte! 

[Bigs]

My dad used to say "If you can't pay cash you can't afford it". I think my wife took up on that since I had to pay cash for any toys I wanted. Sometimes you have to wait a little longer but it's a lot cheaper than financing and paying interest.
   Bigs

[FXDBI]

True story after financing the bike ,stg1 mods,pro-pipe and clothing,helmet ect on the magic 7yr HD plan guy was pissed off he didn't include the first service. He was now to broke to afford it and a dealer requirement for them to honor the warranty.....Bob

Anyone who thinks they need to go to a dealer for routine service to maintain a warranty has bigger problems than just being broke.

The dealer here states you have to do the first service (1700km) to keep the warrenty intact. Its the only one they ever did for me, but they gave a 1st service included with all 2006 bikes they sold/ordered before christmas 2005. Since I ordered mine in oct05 for spring 06 it was included,back then you still had to order one to insure you got what .  The dealer would order you one for $1000 deposit,and gladly refund it if you changed your mind,they couldnt get enough bikes in Canada to keep them on the showroom floor then.    Bob

[codyshop]

True story after financing the bike ,stg1 mods,pro-pipe and clothing,helmet ect on the magic 7yr HD plan guy was pissed off he didn't include the first service. He was now to broke to afford it and a dealer requirement for them to honor the warranty.....Bob

Here in the 'States, we have the Magnussen-Moss Act which absolutely forbids corporations to require the use of their own dealer network/branded parts/service outlets in order to keep a warranty intact.    Requiring a pre-pay for the first service is currently in the courts here.   

Anyone who thinks they need to go to a dealer for routine service to maintain a warranty has bigger problems than just being broke.

The dealer here states you have to do the first service (1700km) to keep the warrenty intact. Its the only one they ever did for me, but they gave a 1st service included with all 2006 bikes they sold/ordered before christmas 2005. Since I ordered mine in oct05 for spring 06 it was included,back then you still had to order one to insure you got what .  The dealer would order you one for $1000 deposit,and gladly refund it if you changed your mind,they couldnt get enough bikes in Canada to keep them on the showroom floor then.    Bob

[Scooterfish]

Yep HD finance will go out 84 months. Back in the hay day a dealer told me the average add on bike bling & motor clothes financed was $3000 - 5000 per bike. Add some pretty high interest rates to the mix for 84 monthes. I know someone who just bought a 2011. His quote was " the dealer really went to bad for me with HD credit because of my bad credit. I got dinged pretty bad on the interest rate." My guess is he`s paying double the MSRP of bike when financed. 

[Dogmeat]

I toally agree with "if ya' don't have the money, ya' can't afford it".....
I wrote out a check for my '05 FLHTCI when I bought it new in Nov. '04.

The house....bought it in Sept' 1990, and paid it off in April 1996.....I saved a hot damn TON o' coins.....more than enough
to pay for the scooter!!

[PoorUB]

Yep HD finance will go out 84 months. Back in the hay day a dealer told me the average add on bike bling & motor clothes financed was $3000 - 5000 per bike. Add some pretty high interest rates to the mix for 84 monthes. I know someone who just bought a 2011. His quote was " the dealer really went to bad for me with HD credit because of my bad credit. I got dinged pretty bad on the interest rate." My guess is he`s paying double the MSRP of bike when financed. 

I forgot about the bling and motorclothes. I did have the dealer ask me if I wanted to add any riding gear to the loan. I just looked at him like he was insane. I guess lots of new riders, wanting to look the part fall for it.
I just dropped in $25,000, 15% and 8 years into a loan clculator and the buyer would be 6-7 years out before he was right side up on the loan.
This does not cut and past well, but you get the idea. Look at the bottem, $43,000 paid out on a $22,000 bike, and bling. Ya gotta woonder what people are thinking, (or not thinking!)

I plugged in numbers for my first bike and I paid about $2,000 in interest, second bike was $900 interest because I had a trade in and only borrowed 1/2 the value for 3 years.

Payment Monthly Payment Principal Paid Interest Paid Remaining Balance
1 $448.64 $136.14 $312.50 $24,863.86
2 $448.64 $137.84 $310.80 $24,726.03
3 $448.64 $139.56 $309.08 $24,586.47
4 $448.64 $141.30 $307.33 $24,445.16
5 $448.64 $143.07 $305.56 $24,302.09
6 $448.64 $144.86 $303.78 $24,157.23
7 $448.64 $146.67 $301.97 $24,010.56
8 $448.64 $148.50 $300.13 $23,862.06
9 $448.64 $150.36 $298.28 $23,711.70
10 $448.64 $152.24 $296.40 $23,559.46
11 $448.64 $154.14 $294.49 $23,405.32
12 $448.64 $156.07 $292.57 $23,249.25
13 $448.64 $158.02 $290.62 $23,091.23
14 $448.64 $159.99 $288.64 $22,931.24
15 $448.64 $161.99 $286.64 $22,769.24
16 $448.64 $164.02 $284.62 $22,605.22
17 $448.64 $166.07 $282.57 $22,439.15
18 $448.64 $168.15 $280.49 $22,271.01
19 $448.64 $170.25 $278.39 $22,100.76
20 $448.64 $172.38 $276.26 $21,928.39
21 $448.64 $174.53 $274.10 $21,753.86
22 $448.64 $176.71 $271.92 $21,577.14
23 $448.64 $178.92 $269.71 $21,398.22
24 $448.64 $181.16 $267.48 $21,217.07
25 $448.64 $183.42 $265.21 $21,033.64
26 $448.64 $185.71 $262.92 $20,847.93
27 $448.64 $188.04 $260.60 $20,659.89
28 $448.64 $190.39 $258.25 $20,469.51
29 $448.64 $192.77 $255.87 $20,276.74
30 $448.64 $195.18 $253.46 $20,081.56
31 $448.64 $197.62 $251.02 $19,883.95
32 $448.64 $200.09 $248.55 $19,683.86
33 $448.64 $202.59 $246.05 $19,481.28
34 $448.64 $205.12 $243.52 $19,276.16
35 $448.64 $207.68 $240.95 $19,068.47
36 $448.64 $210.28 $238.36 $18,858.19
37 $448.64 $212.91 $235.73 $18,645.29
38 $448.64 $215.57 $233.07 $18,429.72
39 $448.64 $218.26 $230.37 $18,211.45
40 $448.64 $220.99 $227.64 $17,990.46
41 $448.64 $223.75 $224.88 $17,766.71
42 $448.64 $226.55 $222.08 $17,540.16
43 $448.64 $229.38 $219.25 $17,310.77
44 $448.64 $232.25 $216.38 $17,078.52
45 $448.64 $235.15 $213.48 $16,843.37
46 $448.64 $238.09 $210.54 $16,605.28
47 $448.64 $241.07 $207.57 $16,364.21
48 $448.64 $244.08 $204.55 $16,120.12
49 $448.64 $247.13 $201.50 $15,872.99
50 $448.64 $250.22 $198.41 $15,622.77
51 $448.64 $253.35 $195.28 $15,369.42
52 $448.64 $256.52 $192.12 $15,112.90
53 $448.64 $259.72 $188.91 $14,853.18
54 $448.64 $262.97 $185.66 $14,590.21
55 $448.64 $266.26 $182.38 $14,323.95
56 $448.64 $269.59 $179.05 $14,054.36
57 $448.64 $272.96 $175.68 $13,781.41
58 $448.64 $276.37 $172.27 $13,505.04
59 $448.64 $279.82 $168.81 $13,225.22
60 $448.64 $283.32 $165.32 $12,941.90
61 $448.64 $286.86 $161.77 $12,655.04
62 $448.64 $290.45 $158.19 $12,364.59
63 $448.64 $294.08 $154.56 $12,070.51
64 $448.64 $297.75 $150.88 $11,772.76
65 $448.64 $301.48 $147.16 $11,471.28
66 $448.64 $305.24 $143.39 $11,166.04
67 $448.64 $309.06 $139.58 $10,856.98
68 $448.64 $312.92 $135.71 $10,544.06
69 $448.64 $316.83 $131.80 $10,227.22
70 $448.64 $320.79 $127.84 $9,906.43
71 $448.64 $324.80 $123.83 $9,581.62
72 $448.64 $328.86 $119.77 $9,252.76
73 $448.64 $332.98 $115.66 $8,919.78
74 $448.64 $337.14 $111.50 $8,582.64
75 $448.64 $341.35 $107.28 $8,241.29
76 $448.64 $345.62 $103.02 $7,895.67
77 $448.64 $349.94 $98.70 $7,545.73
78 $448.64 $354.31 $94.32 $7,191.42
79 $448.64 $358.74 $89.89 $6,832.68
80 $448.64 $363.23 $85.41 $6,469.45
81 $448.64 $367.77 $80.87 $6,101.68
82 $448.64 $372.36 $76.27 $5,729.32
83 $448.64 $377.02 $71.62 $5,352.30
84 $448.64 $381.73 $66.90 $4,970.57
85 $448.64 $386.50 $62.13 $4,584.07
86 $448.64 $391.33 $57.30 $4,192.73
87 $448.64 $396.23 $52.41 $3,796.51
88 $448.64 $401.18 $47.46 $3,395.33
89 $448.64 $406.19 $42.44 $2,989.13
90 $448.64 $411.27 $37.36 $2,577.86
91 $448.64 $416.41 $32.22 $2,161.45
92 $448.64 $421.62 $27.02 $1,739.83
93 $448.64 $426.89 $21.75 $1,312.95
94 $448.64 $432.22 $16.41 $880.72
95 $448.64 $437.63 $11.01 $443.10
96 $448.64 $443.10 $5.54 $0.00
Totals $43,068.97 $25,000.00 $18,068.97 

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[harborjohn]

Smart people have been making money off dumb people for a long time.................

[Princess Butt]

I have a few rules about buying anything on a note:

1. Put down enough so you are not upside down in the note. As a rule of thumb, about one third down. This means if you have to get out of it, you aren't having to shell out cash to get out of it. 

2. Always pay extra. If you payment is $327.65 per month, round it up. Round it up to $350, or $400, or $500. The extra should always apply to the principal balance. This whittles away at the principal, which means you will save money on interest charges.

3. Plan to keep it after the payments are finished. I try to keep a vehicle 10 years, so when 10 years is up, I'll either buy a new one, or keep money in reserve to fix the old beast.

4. If you think because it's a limited availability thing it will always be worth more than you owe on it, then fine, place your bet. I don't make that bet. Things are mass produced, and if there is a market shortage, then the manufacturer will step up production. If the manufacturer doesn't make more, someone else will come along and make a substitute.

5. It may be a great deal, but that doesn't mean you should go into debt to buy it. You can't take advantage of every great deal you come across. You only have so much time and money to deal with things.

[tomcat64]

He was now to broke to afford it and a dealer requirement for them to honor the warranty.....Bob


#1,, thats not legal...

#2,, alot of people were borrowing 130% of the value on bikes and more,, of course they are upside down,, takes them about 3 years to get flipped around..

[Scooterfish]

BnEultraclassis.   

Tomcat64        

For the guy who can`t afford the service. Stop by the dealer & request the service free since they require it to honor the warranty. Probably the best option is to get a bud to help him do it & keep the paper work

[mp]

I used to (try to) sell cars for a living.  I'd have guys come in to buy a $30,000 pickup and not have $500 for a down payment.  Can't feel sorry for people like that.