Harley going watercooled in 2010?

[Hellraiser]

Probably you all have heard this rumor, is it true?

[Clintster]

Every year it comes along.  It would make sense with more emissions and noise demands on manufacturers it may have to be.  Maybe an introduction with one model, or will it be all accross the line?  A V-Rod type motor or something along the lines of the Buell/Rotax powerplant.  See then the last of the air cooled motors will be very collectable...

[Hellraiser]

Rumors over the web are divided some talks are centered around the touring range others about a 400cc entry level bike dubbed the scootster.

[Hellraiser]

Attached is an EPA document from 2005, if you look at the last page, you will notice the Heritage Ultra Tail with an engine capacity of 2000cc and subsequentely 2400cc.

[attachment removed after 60 days by system]

[smittyon66]

That document has been floating around for years. If you look at page 7 it says "HYPOTHETICAL APPLICATION".


Don't hold your breath waiting for the new Heritage Ultra Tail.

[Hellraiser]

I am not odd name for a bike I am not expecting any significant changes to the TC96 until the 2014 model year when the current patents expire...

[Princess Butt]

You can bet they'll stick with air cooled as long as they can. They've spent all the money to get thru modern and all existing future emissions standards. Also, they're not interested in retooling the production line for a new motor. Sure, hypothetically, it's just easy to swap a water cooled motor into the existing frame. NOT! They would have to reconfigure half the bike, to deal with radiators, plumbing, air intake systems, and all that wonderful stuff.

They may introduce another model line which is water cooled, but don't bet on a replacement for existing stuff. I would really like to see a V-Rod based sport tourer, along the lines of the FXRT they made in the 1980's.

I've not ruled out the idea of building my own from a wrecked VRSC.

BnEUC

[Big Dan]

They would have to reconfigure half the bike, to deal with radiators, plumbing, air intake systems, and all that wonderful stuff

Welcome to the new all new 2009 touring frame. Water cooled is coming, and coming soon. It was supposed to happen this year, and didn't. I don't know what the glitch is/was. This kind of info is nearly impossible to get.

[96flhpi]

Is it autumn already?

[rigidthumper]

The current EPA approval is through 2010, so they should be good to go for 1 more model year- after that, recertification determines just how long air cooled power train will exist. Wanna see something interesting? Look at the unused ( and capped off) electrical connector, sitting on a t-stud, kind of under the voltage regulator, next to where the CPS plug is. Wonder what they intend to plug in there? Fans, maybe?
Robin

[Ultrashovel]

They will have to make a liquid-cooled machine fairly soon. When that happens if you want one, get out your wallet. They aren't going to be cheap.

Also, anyone who buys the first year model of a Harley-Davidson with liquid-coolng is taking a big chance. As usual with the first year of any big change there will be "issues".

It will also double the cost of making those "needed" changes that all Harley owners have to make to stay ahead of the competition. More hoses, pipes, thermostats water valves, gaskets. Good luck to the aftermarket with their re-tooling, too.   

[03rdkng]

Yes the question has been asked for years but I too wondered about the new frame being a precursor to liquid cooled.
The 2010 emission changes coming for the diesel truck industry are crazy.
SCR as they call it.  Hang a 40 gallon urea tank on your truck to inject urea into the exhaust stream to reduce NOx emissions.
Caterpillar said no thanks, they will be out of the on highway engine business after 09.
Crazy things goin on.

[Shadowdog]

Ahhh, it seems that they have a bit more experience with water cooling than most people realize.

[CraigArizona85248]

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned that new high performance sportster model... What did they call it?  XR1200?  That has water cooled heads.

-Craig

[HV]

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned that new high performance sportster model... What did they call it?  XR1200?  That has water cooled heads.

-Craig

It does??? I know it has oil cooled parts

[CraigArizona85248]

OH... that would make more sense... I saw that radiator and thought it looked too small for liquid, but oil would make more sense.  Looks like the plumbing goes to the heads only from the the peak I could get.

[Kansas]

In refrence to UltraShovel's comment about a water cooled Harley being expensive.  I'd say if you want a new Harley to ride into the recession now may be a golden time to buy.  With the government spending newly printed money in the trillion dollar increments inflation is going to inevitable.  It will take a lot more devalued dollars to buy a Harley or anything else.  If you have the money and biking is important enough in your life, in my opinion, this may be a short window to get a deposit down and lock in todays pricing on a new bike.  If the whole house of cards falls down you'll have a nice scooter in the garage regardless if it has no resale value with big unemployment numbers.  I'd rather lose the $20,000 on a new Harley that I can ride on a nice afternoon than the $350K I have lost in the stock market in the last six months and got no value out of.  I'm buying a new S-T Deluxe, soon.

[HIPPO]

They would have to reconfigure half the bike, to deal with radiators, plumbing, air intake systems, and all that wonderful stuff

Welcome to the new all new 2009 touring frame. Water cooled is coming, and coming soon. It was supposed to happen this year, and didn't. I don't know what the glitch is/was. This kind of info is nearly impossible to get.

Glitch?
If i were HD and had to sell as many bikes as possible, then i would turn liabilities into assets. they know people whine about wobbles, etc. So they come out with a new frame and many that would otherwise ride their old bikes buy the new ones. In a year or two put the new engine in. Rinse and repeat.


Further it isn't so much the expertise of the engineering staff with water cooling. What happens at dealer level?
It only took them 10 years to halfway learn how to diagnose TC and EFI.
Dealer techs with water cooled experience are very few because HD has very few dealers that deal in other lines.

The problem is that they are incresingly creating red headed step children in the form of specific model years within their most profitable line. It's going to come back and bite them in the ass one of these days.

[RK101]

Here's what they say about XR1200 heads in the American Motorcyclist Magazine is there precision cooled cylinder heads and a large capacity oil cooler. Interesting. Is this the way they might go in the future with the other models? I guess time will tell.

[HIPPO]

Kansas,
The next few years will see deflation. Especially in non essentials.
If, repeat IF, eventually the idiots soon to be in office decide to monetize debt or print, the environment isn't going to be conductive to riding a motorcycle. It would be a battle zone.

http://market-ticker.denninger.net/archives/725-On-Hyperinflation.html

[88b]

Suzuki have been using oil coolong for years. Can't say I've heard of any problems with the V Rod's water cooling system, not that they have sold that many.

[Skullfork]

http://market-ticker.denninger.net/archives/725-On-Hyperinflation.html

HIPPO ...thanks for the link.  That was a very interesting read and I believe it to be very possible if things don't start changing in a hurry.

[PoorUB]

They would have to reconfigure half the bike, to deal with radiators, plumbing, air intake systems, and all that wonderful stuff

Welcome to the new all new 2009 touring frame. Water cooled is coming, and coming soon. It was supposed to happen this year, and didn't. I don't know what the glitch is/was. This kind of info is nearly impossible to get.

Yep! Water cooling was supposed to be here in '09, and '08, and '07, and '06 and............

My guess it will happen some day, but I will bet it will not happen with the current frame design of the '09 touring line. It will be a new frame, possibly based on a V-Rod engine, perhaps with a differant bore and stroke. The '09 touring frame has nothing to do with it. Why would the MoCo do a major frame change, then have to change it again in one year? I don't buy it.

[Big Dan]

We shall see...

[Golfman]

I would love to see the Touring Bikes with a V-Rod type engine. I would prefer, however, that they first add a little more stroke and torque; and, as such, put the power band at a lower rpm level.