37g's with stock 88

[EGNBLU]

I have an 01carbed FLHT and just bought a set of 37'g for it. Planning on doing WFO heads in December/January along with 95" SE flatops.  How will run if I just put the cams in for now? It also has SE ignition and coil, SE highflow with Yost power tube on the stock CV and a V&H Propipe on it now.

Jimmy

[Hillside Motorcycle]

It'll run great.

[Billy]

Probably be a little soft on the bottom.

I'd wait and do it all at once. With the SE flat tops @ 0 deck & .030" HG, you will want a 80cc chamber (9.8:1).

You'll also want to open the valve reliefs in the pistons if WFO Larry is going to use oversize valves.

[hotbo]

it will be really tired down low :'(wait until you do it all,really shouldn't have to open the valve relief on the se pistons,i have 1.94 on flat tops and didnt open the intake relief and that was 45,000 miles ago ::)good luck and once you get the bb kit with the heads on and the cams you will love it.travis

[EGNBLU]

So is 9.8:1 the ideal cr for the 37's in a bagger?
I had 37h's in StreetBob with an AMS build a few years ago and it ran really well.
This is a totally different bike as far a weight and what type of riding I plan on doing.  This will be more of a vanilla build with Larry's stage1 heads. Not shooting for big numbers, just want it to run good and not lose reliability.

Thanks for the responses,
Jimmy

[fxstdavew]

it will be really tired down low :'(wait until you do it all,really shouldn't have to open the valve relief on the se pistons,i have 1.94 on flat tops and didnt open the intake relief and that was 45,000 miles ago ::)good luck and once you get the bb kit with the heads on and the cams you will love it.travis

It's always best to check valve to piston clearance. If the heads are milled and running 1.94 valve the relief typically on SE flat tops needs to be moved to the outer edge of the piston. As for how it will run with just the 37s? It runs much better than the stock cams. 

[donutsrd]

01 fltri ran 37g in 88" with se a/c pc3usb and dyno tune for 20k,ran great.i finally (20k later)did 95" cppistins cyl bored to match,and some mild headwork about 2wks ago and couldnt be  happier.70k and runnin strong.who knows,maybe santa will bring me a baker dd6.ha ha

[Ultra003]

   I'm running the 37's in my AMS build at 9.7. (9.0 corrected)
   It runs well on any gas I want to put in it.

Dave

[EGNBLU]

   I'm running the 37's in my AMS build at 9.7. (9.0 corrected)
   It runs well on any gas I want to put in it.

Dave

That is great with this crap they make us run now days.


Jimmy

[EGNBLU]

BTW Sonny, it is the Street Legal version of the SE ignition and coil (32749-99a), nothing funky going on with the timing.

Jimmy

[Hillside Motorcycle]

I need to retract my first post as I thought I had read that he'll be running the 37's with the 95" that Larry was going to build.
If only 37's with an 88", it be a genuine turd. Period.

[Hillside Motorcycle]

A cam only build in an 88" would be the install of a 26.
Does a nice job for folks looking for that inexpensive gain.

[FSG]

A cam only build in an 88" would be the install of a 26.
Does a nice job for folks looking for that inexpensive gain.

right on, did that on my Fatty while I was gathering the other required goodies

[yahmon]

Been running 37G's on 88TC, '02 fxstb for over 2 years. Cams kick in about 2800 rpm. Run mostly highway and pleased. Don't expect any gain under 2500 rpm. Have noticed cooler oil temp, not sure why. Need for speed is 95BB this winter.

[EGNBLU]

Jimmy,

You're on the right track with your build, just be patient and do it all at once...even the chrome..lol. No sense in doing a cam swap and re-jet the carb just to pull the pipe again, and re-tune in 2 months...IMHO.
Just gotta get the CR right. If you bump it up too high you might need to change the module.

What elevation are you at ?
Ride local or tour ?
2 up or solo ?

Sonny

I think that is what I will do, just wait till winter time and do it all.
I bought a set of cylinders last night,looking for a cheap set of heads. Have them powerdercoated before sending them out for the cylinder bore and zero'ing the deck height and Larry's Stage 1 heads with groves.

I have a set of SE 95" flatops ready to go in. Maybe a SE spring for the clutch if it slips or if I can swing it, a VPC. I have an easy pull to go in it too.

I live in Dallas, so not any hills close, I ride solo 99% of the time. 185lbs. No tourpak. Occasionally my wife or daughter will go for a short ride. It is mainly a daily rider. To and from work and some putting around on the weekends.

Thinking about the 3.37 gearing since I dont really tour.. Man those parts have gone up like crazy. You used to get both parts for under $300 shipped, now even at Zanotti's it is real close to $400.

Anyone know where I can get a deal on a 37846-99A clutch shell???

So here is the build:

95" SE flatops
WFO stage 1 heads
37'g cams
SE ignition and coil
Propipe
SE air cleaner
CV w/ yost power tube
Cometic gaskets
Maybe 3.37 gearing

I am thinking 9.6-9.8:1

Anybody want to add anything

Thanks for everybody's input,
Jimmy

[Upswept]

NO!  It won't run great without head work.  Trust me.  I've done that on a Superglide.  I installed 37's without any headwork and it ruined a nice, torquey bike.  It lost most all the lowend and gave me very litle upper end.  DON'T install the 37's in a stock bike.

[Tattoo]

 

[EGNBLU]

05, I have that same problem. CRS...

That is some good info, thank you.

Jimmy

[Hillside Motorcycle]

If your going to do the build with Larry, why not make your purchases thru him?
You wouldn't bring a 1/2 pound of hamburger, and 1/2 a head of lettuce to McDonald's, would you?
I know, that's different?

[Faast Ed]

I have to agree with that. Larry will bend over backwards to give you the best info, the best build, might as well let him make a lil extra for his efforts.

[EGNBLU]

I did send severals emails to Larry about what parts I had and what I needed. Also what I wanted to accomplish with this build. So me and Larry would be on the same page.

The only thing different so far to my original email to him is that I am going to use a local guy to do the cylinders since I have to have them machined twice, boring then deck heigth. That is because of shippings costs twice from Dallas to Chicago. 30lbs back and forth twice would get pricey.

I am just looking for other ideas to go along with it. Since you guys have been there done that.

This is going to be a pretty much low budget build, so I have been picking up a part here and one there. Dont have the cash to buy everything at once.



Jimmy

[bubbarosa]

Me thinks too that it will be soft on the bottom end  with the low compression of the stock heads/piston combo.  I upped mine with the 37's and 95ci using HD forged pistons and basically stock heads that I cleaned up myself.  Compression is about 9.7 with a 0.030 head gasket, right about where the 37's are happiest.  Added a fatcat and thundermax auto tune and it runs great.  It pulls very well from 2500rpm all the way to 6200rpm.. not outstanding but good on my bagger hauling my fat arse around.  Runs on 89 octane corn gas we get here in the midwest with a slight bit if pinging around 2800-3200 rpm when cracking the throttle  but i am still working on the thundermax tuning to get that to go away.

[Sonny S.]

I bought a set of cylinders last night,looking for a cheap set of heads. Have them powerdercoated before sending them out

Jimmy,

Not sure exactly what your plans are with the powder coating but be careful with it.
Those fins need to release as much heat as possible. If you are polishing the edge of the fins that will help.
I have not personally had any done.

Sonny

[mayor]

So here is the build:

95" SE flatops
WFO stage 1 heads
37'g cams
SE ignition and coil
Propipe
SE air cleaner
CV w/ yost power tube
Cometic gaskets
Maybe 3.37 gearing

I am thinking 9.6-9.8:1

Anybody want to add anything

Thanks for everybody's input,
Jimmy

Jimmy,
your CV40 is going to limit the top end a little.  The CV44 would be a better choice if you can afford it.  Trust me Larry's stage 1 heads can handle the extra flow of the CV44.  Other than that, pretty much the same build I have.  My head chamber volume is 82cc, which is about 9.6:1 static.   

[Acetxx]

Jimmy, before you spend any money, you need to call Steve at AMS, (http://www.automotivemachine.com/harley.htm ) right there in Fort Worth. They specialize in the build you described, and you can save on shipping. (I'm using the 37's) They did my heads, and cylinder boring. I used 96" KB pistons and it's a fun bike to ride. 2006 Road Glide. It's worth the dime to talk to him................

[mayor]

no offense Ace, but check out the build in the dyno section listed as "95" Andrews TW37, CV44 and Groovy WFOLarry stage 1 '06 heads" The build he's looking to do is pretty good too.   

[BONERACIN]

I have and 04 FXDWG with the 37g's (88). I am going to have to agree with the week low end, but once it comes on it pulls good all the way up. I am in the process of looking for the 21 tooth comp and chain to pacify me until i get the money to do a top end.

[Acetxx]

Wannab,

Nice dyno.
What compression did you end up with, and what model bike?

[mayor]

thanks, 9.6 static compression (about 8.9:1 corrected).  All that on a Superglide.   

[crazy joe]

A cam only build in an 88" would be the install of a 26.
Does a nice job for folks looking for that inexpensive gain.

What about one with a big bore kit in it (95'')?
Going to put a 26 in mine.

[EGNBLU]

Hey Ace. I did a Street Bob AMS build a few years ago and it ran great. Still does i sold it to a buddy.
Wanting to give Larry heads a try this time. Steve and those guys at AMS are a good bunch.

Wannab, Your dyno graph pretty much sold me on the WFO heads. Along with Po2's recommendation.
If mine turns out anywhere close to yours, I will be thrilled.

Sonny, The new Street Bobs have all black heads and cylinders, does HD use something else to coat them?
The cylinders I got are highlighted black, so not opposed to kepping them that way if it is going to generate more heat.

What would be a better choice for carb, CV44 or a Mikuni42 with this build? Both would probably be a lot better than the stock CV.


Thanks everybody,
Jimmy

[mayor]

What would be a better choice for carb, CV44 or a Mikuni42 with this build? Both would probably be a lot better than the stock CV.

I like the CV44, but the Mik will out right perform better.  The Mik actually outflows the CV44 based on testing that Bruce (munkeywithlobo) did.  The Cv's are nice if you travel frequently since they adjust a little better for altitude variables.  Either carb will gain you over the Cv40 in the build your going to be doing. 

Sonny is doing pretty much the same build too, but with the Cv40.  I'm curious how his results compare to mine, since he can use the same dyno. If he's not too cheap.   

[Sonny S.]

Jimmy,

I just wasn't sure if you were doing a very high build powder coat of some sort. I'm sure what you are doing is fine.

Yes, I'm thinking of running a CV40 with that build, mainly because I have 6 or 7 of them here. I have a Mik 42 but DO NOT want that on this bike. I prefer CV's. for daily riders and touring bikes.
I might buy a CV44 though. The only benefit I think would be peak HP. I would bet that peak TQ could still be real nice.

One difference between my bike and WANNAB's is that mine is an Ultra Classic, and his is a SuperGlide. They aren't going to act the same even on the dyno.

Sonny

[EGNBLU]

Yeah I am going to try it with the CV40 too since I have one. Maybe if the tax man aint too hard on me, I can upgrade then. Either of you (Sonny or Wannab)  running  3.37 gearing? That may be on the short list after the build is done.


Thanks again for all your help.
Jimmy

[Sonny S.]

I was running 3.37 but took it out. I do a lot of touring ( 80 + mph  800-1100 mile trips), and the RPM's were higher than I liked. I will put it back in when 6spd money is available.
According to your riding style you will love it.

Sonny

[mayor]

One difference between my bike and WANNAB's is that mine is an Ultra Classic, and his is a SuperGlide. They aren't going to act the same even on the dyno.

Why do you think that (not the same on the dyno)? or are you basing that solely on the timing being different since your bike is a couple of notes heavier? Other than timing, all else should be the same. 

Jimmy, no special gearing in mine.  Light bike, factory gearing..

[EGNBLU]

Heads are on their way to Larry.


Jimmy

[mayor]

Jimmy, didn't you have some sort of badazz sporty a while back? still got it?

[EGNBLU]

Good memory there Wannab. It began life as a mirage orange 06 883r. At 600 miles the motor was taken out and driven to NRHS in Longmont Co. They built me a somewhat radical 90" 1474cc Sporty that looked pretty much like a stock 883.
It has Stage3 XB heads w/1.94 1.615 valves wcompression releases, S&S 600 cam, S&S rollers, Zippers adjustable pushrods, Axtell cast iron cylinders, CP 10.5:1 pistons, Buell oil pump, Mik45, Speeds High Velocity 90degree AC, Fatcat, VPC, DTT, LRB brakes, HD cylinder studs, All Progressive suspension and I am sure other stuff I cant remember. It did 107.2hp and 108tq. Power wheelies in first all day long, second no problem and it will come up about a foot shifting into third if you hit it just right. I sold it before it killed me and bought this mild mannered FLHT and I am loving it. I had an 05 FLHTCI but lost my job and had to sell it. Then went crazy on the Sporty and now back to what I really want.

[mayor]

somewhat radical 90"- now that's an understatement.    Sharp looking Sporty you had there.  So, what compression are you going to run on the TW37build?  are you going to have Larry add the grooves?

[EGNBLU]

When the heads get there, I will give him a call and confirm everything but right now Larry is suggesting 9.8 with grooves.
I live in Dallas, so nothing but crap gas and heat and humidity. So he can make that call. I had 37's with AMS heads on a 06 Streetbob and it was 9.8. I think upper 80's hp and mid 90's tq. It never was tuned right, should have made more, plus it ran really hot.

[EGNBLU]

somewhat radical 90"- now that's an understatement.    Sharp looking Sporty you had there. 

Not bad for a girls bike..

It shocked a lot of people, including myself.

It pulled so hard, it was incredible. Very fun bike.

The torque curve was really  flat, at 2k it was 100lbs and hit 108lbs at 4600, still over 90lbs at 6300.

Luckily I sold it to a buddy, so I can go get my adrenaline rush anytime.


Jimmy