Power Vision questions

[upnorthbiker]

Hi,
Thankyou for the replies, but now Im confused.
The way I have been doing it is, Start Autotune, choose the file and autotune prepares it, edit the temp and rpm as for a Vrod.
datalog, export the saved values and place in a tune slot. If I want to run Autotune more on that tune just perform the same loop again, that means that when I select the same tune again for Autotune it starts with the trims reset to zero. I can do this again and again until changes in the datalogged trims are up to a max of say 2% changes, and this should give me a pretty descent tune.
I get the message I asked the question about when I want to flash the ecu with the selected tune.
I have tried to attach a photo of the message.
Maybe not such a stupid question after all.
Jeff


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[Jamie Long]

During the tuning process anytime you are prompted to reset learned Fuel Trims you will want to do so. About the only exceptions would be an insignificant edit like idle speed, rev limit, etc..

[hrdtail78]

We have to understand what we are doing when we are tuning the VE's.  We are using the learned fuel trims to adjust our VE's.  So when we load the new VE's made from the AFV's.  We are "centering" or resetting the AFV's.  You wouldn't want to keep the trims and load new VE's.

[rbabos]

We have to understand what we are doing when we are tuning the VE's.  We are using the learned fuel trims to adjust our VE's.  So when we load the new VE's made from the AFV's.  We are "centering" or resetting the AFV's.  You wouldn't want to keep the trims and load new VE's.

Page 9 in using autotune. It automatically resets fuel trims when auto tune is selected when using  Basic autotune. My confusion is if it does this automatically and if settings are changed and I agree with you the afv should be cleared on each tune run, so why the manual approach to reset learned if it's already been done. Seems to be a carry over from an earlier software version. Not a big deal, just seems redundant in this aspect.

AutoTune Basic—automatically applies a .pvv to the tune that does the following:
• Sets the base fuel table to 14.6 for AFR based calibrations and .982 for lambda based
calibrations.
• Disables AE/DE/EITMS/PE/Adaptive Control.
• Retards 4 degrees of timing.
• Bias the close loop range to .700mv on AFR based calibrations.
General
• Sets calib to PVAT (Session Number).
• Clears adaptive fuel tables after flashing.
Ron

[hrdtail78]

Not familar enough with vision to say, but what I understand.  Auto-tune basic shuts off some tables I would not want to shut off.  Does it reset them in advance mode.  I know SESPT asks the same thing.

[joe_lyons]

Are you are talking about the ae/de tables being shut off and the same issue that tts has with the same thing?  i dont think that it is an issue with PV.  Now does it really shut off ae/de or just not record when those events happen?  I would need to monitor to see for sure but my bike is in a few pieces while im converting to FBW.

[Jamie Long]

We have to understand what we are doing when we are tuning the VE's.  We are using the learned fuel trims to adjust our VE's.  So when we load the new VE's made from the AFV's.  We are "centering" or resetting the AFV's.  You wouldn't want to keep the trims and load new VE's.

Page 9 in using autotune. It automatically resets fuel trims when auto tune is selected when using  Basic autotune. My confusion is if it does this automatically and if settings are changed and I agree with you the afv should be cleared on each tune run, so why the manual approach to reset learned if it's already been done. Seems to be a carry over from an earlier software version. Not a big deal, just seems redundant in this aspect.

AutoTune Basic—automatically applies a .pvv to the tune that does the following:
• Sets the base fuel table to 14.6 for AFR based calibrations and .982 for lambda based
calibrations.
• Disables AE/DE/EITMS/PE/Adaptive Control.
• Retards 4 degrees of timing.
• Bias the close loop range to .700mv on AFR based calibrations.
General
• Sets calib to PVAT (Session Number).
• Clears adaptive fuel tables after flashing.
Ron

When going into the tune session when Auto Tune is enabled the fuel trims are automatically reset, however after you export your AT learned data you this creates a new calibration in the tune manager. When you reflash this new calibration you will reset learned fuel trims when prompted. In good practice "During the tuning process anytime you are prompted to reset learned Fuel Trims you will want to do so"

[Jamie Long]

Not familar enough with vision to say, but what I understand.  Auto-tune basic shuts off some tables I would not want to shut off.  Does it reset them in advance mode.  I know SESPT asks the same thing.

Power Vision does not exactly shut off the tables when it is put in Auto Tune Basic mode. While it states in the manual AE/DE/EITMS/PE/Adaptive Control are "disabled", they are actually changed specifically and there are a couple things toggled off, with the end goal to allow maximum closed loop learning while in Auto Tune mode.
For those that are non believers, you can leave everything setup in your calibration to your liking such as AE/DE/EITMS/PE, select Narrowband Logging, do a tuning session, and put everything in PV Log Tuner which will populate a corrected tune as well.

[rbabos]

We have to understand what we are doing when we are tuning the VE's.  We are using the learned fuel trims to adjust our VE's.  So when we load the new VE's made from the AFV's.  We are "centering" or resetting the AFV's.  You wouldn't want to keep the trims and load new VE's.

Page 9 in using autotune. It automatically resets fuel trims when auto tune is selected when using  Basic autotune. My confusion is if it does this automatically and if settings are changed and I agree with you the afv should be cleared on each tune run, so why the manual approach to reset learned if it's already been done. Seems to be a carry over from an earlier software version. Not a big deal, just seems redundant in this aspect.

AutoTune Basic—automatically applies a .pvv to the tune that does the following:
• Sets the base fuel table to 14.6 for AFR based calibrations and .982 for lambda based
calibrations.
• Disables AE/DE/EITMS/PE/Adaptive Control.
• Retards 4 degrees of timing.
• Bias the close loop range to .700mv on AFR based calibrations.
General
• Sets calib to PVAT (Session Number).
• Clears adaptive fuel tables after flashing.
Ron

When going into the tune session when Auto Tune is enabled the fuel trims are automatically reset, however after you export your AT learned data you this creates a new calibration in the tune manager. When you reflash this new calibration you will reset learned fuel trims when prompted. In good practice "During the tuning process anytime you are prompted to reset learned Fuel Trims you will want to do so"

Understood. Will do it each and every time as common practice when I get rollin with it. Thanks.
Ron

[rbabos]

Are you are talking about the ae/de tables being shut off and the same issue that tts has with the same thing?  i dont think that it is an issue with PV.  Now does it really shut off ae/de or just not record when those events happen?  I would need to monitor to see for sure but my bike is in a few pieces while im converting to FBW.

keep your head in the sand.  how can you breathe like that?  as reported...  its a DELPHI issue

It was claimed to be a Delphi issue John. I've yet to see what it is exactly in writing.
Ron

[joe_lyons]

Are you are talking about the ae/de tables being shut off and the same issue that tts has with the same thing?  i dont think that it is an issue with PV.  Now does it really shut off ae/de or just not record when those events happen?  I would need to monitor to see for sure but my bike is in a few pieces while im converting to FBW.

keep your head in the sand.  how can you breathe like that?  as reported...  its a DELPHI issue

I was saying that i dont think that the PV shuts off the ae/de tables for sure.  So then my head would not be in the ''SAND'' but saying that using the basic tune with PV would not be like shuting off the ae/de tables with tts.  My guess is that the ae/de tables are returned "if changed" to a certain value and that pe and the rest are shut off.

[hrdtail78]

Are you are talking about the ae/de tables being shut off and the same issue that tts has with the same thing?  i dont think that it is an issue with PV.  Now does it really shut off ae/de or just not record when those events happen?  I would need to monitor to see for sure but my bike is in a few pieces while im converting to FBW.

I'm not just talking those tables or the issue that is in Delphi's ECM.  With a dyno you have control over things someone won't have on the street.  That is why I like systems that allow me to set things where I like them.  The vision does allow me to do this. So why would I tune in basic?  I would use the thing in advance mode anyway. Example: I have a cam/ pipe combo that doesn't like to run CL at idle.  I would want to set the cal up so I could use something else besides the stock sensors so I could map the VE in the low rpm and idle area. Like stated. I like to have control over my cal. Seems tuning devices are trying to do more things automatically for me. Might be a pro for the DIYer, but I see it as something in the con column. 

[rbabos]

Are you are talking about the ae/de tables being shut off and the same issue that tts has with the same thing?  i dont think that it is an issue with PV.  Now does it really shut off ae/de or just not record when those events happen?  I would need to monitor to see for sure but my bike is in a few pieces while im converting to FBW.

I'm not just talking those tables or the issue that is in Delphi's ECM.  With a dyno you have control over things someone won't have on the street.  That is why I like systems that allow me to set things where I like them.  The vision does allow me to do this. So why would I tune in basic?  I would use the thing in advance mode anyway. Example: I have a cam/ pipe combo that doesn't like to run CL at idle.  I would want to set the cal up so I could use something else besides the stock sensors so I could map the VE in the low rpm and idle area. Like stated. I like to have control over my cal. Seems tuning devices are trying to do more things automatically for me. Might be a pro for the DIYer, but I see it as something in the con column.

I don't feel that way at all. Having used tts on two miserable builds I can find my way around well enough to get the job done eventually. The PV should appeal to plenty of people wanting a decent tune with all the exta learning curve. The less they need to learn or do the better a system appeals to them.   Let's face it, just about anything will beat a stock tune, right? PV seems as it will be a bit easier to use and no laptop is really required for the average user. For the rest of us the features to manually dive in to all settings is there should the need arise.  I will try the Basic for now and see how it goes since it's nothing more than stock with slip ons installed.  Failing that the option broadbands is available as well, just not for me. I've learned my lesson with vtuning.  V rod stock sensor location will be problematic in the low end regardless of PV, TTS or TS, as we've briefly discussed before.   Again, the option is there in PV to run open loop in the areas that AFV will trash or the inability of good sensor sampling in the low end areas in the first place. A reasonable tune can be fudged here just be listening and feeling the engine behaviour . Been there , done that twice and since it's generally in light load lower rpms who cares if it's not 100% textbook. As long as it's smooth and responsive I'm good with it.
Nothing will replace a dedicated tuner with a dyno for best results, but at the same time the PV used with the dyno should give a first class tune as well as any of them. As you say, not basic with built engines but using all available features to get the job done.
Ron

[delta]

....Again, the option is there in PV to run open loop in the areas that AFV will trash or the inability of good sensor sampling in the low end areas in the first place.
Ron

How quickly does the AFV trash those areas? I've been thinking about just turning the AFV switch off. At least that way, each time I shut the bike off, the tune would reset itself back to what was loaded (I think). I will be experimenting with this in the spring.

[hrdtail78]

IME.  The AFV help more than hurt if sampling is correct in the first place.  If AFV "trash a tune" you have collected bad info. Crap in, crap out.  So you map the VE's, and they change to cause havoc?  Sampling, sampling, sampling. We can talk about filters, but can only collect what the Delphi ECM allows us to. Doesn't hold so much on the
tuning device.

[HV]

On My PV I have one set of screens set to read 02 Integrator Values as Im riding ...after a tune...if the O2 Integrator values are between 95 & 105%and steady through a run .....the AFV will not be doing anything in any case.... a sharp spike tells you where the VEs are not correct ....

[rbabos]

On My PV I have one set of screens set to read 02 Integrator Values as Im riding ...after a tune...if the O2 Integrator values are between 95 & 105%and steady through a run .....the AFV will not be doing anything in any case.... a sharp spike tells you where the VEs are not correct ....

Ok, so what's your solution short of O2 relocation? Blend the ve area to surrounding and 14.5 this spot? Blending only and leaving it in closed , it will revert in time from my experiences.
Ron

[HV]

Yes if its not sampling rite its gonna move back...V rods are a Diff animal ...you cant even smart tune one with a SESPT ... 

[brunothedog]

we had zero issues tuning the vrod with tts using the stock sensors , the motor runs as it should

[rbabos]

we had zero issues tuning the vrod with tts using the stock sensors , the motor runs as it should

2-3k light load areas worked out ok. I notice my stock cal has issues in that area as do most stock v rod from what I hear. Not real bad but needs work.
Ron

[rbabos]

Got the PV mounted in behind the Windvest and shortened the cable for a nice clean install. Loaded what's called an improved stock v rod cal. I must say, with just this load it idles smoother and the 2-3k hunting is practically none existant even with 0 load on it. Have to wait for spring to do the autotune runs but it's a hell of improvement just with the loaded cal.
While it was running I played with some of the features it had. This raises the question, can this unit remain on the bike and run indefinately without ill effect to the unit? Seems a shame to tune and let it collect dust from there on.
Ron


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[joe_lyons]

Mine stays on and is my speedo, temp. gauge among all the other things it can show me but yes it is weather resistant.  I made a plate to mount it to my handlebar riser bolts.

[Coyote]

It won't hurt anything to leave it on the bike. Just a monitor. I have mine mounted and it's cool to see all the data.

[HV]

Mine stays on the Bars all the time...Watching the cells fill as you ride is very interesting.... I have screens for ET.... Speed in MPH and  02 Integrator's ETC   your imagination is the limit for screen set ups 

[rbabos]

Cool on the leaving it on full time.
Worst case senerio. Should the unit somehow fry itself as electronics have been known to do, is my stock tune recoverable or should I have a copy saved on my desktop or flashed somewhere else? Slim to nil on the fry, I know but chit does happen.
Ron