Lifter replacement recommendation

[flht-al]

Just purchased '97 SuperGlide with 30,000 miles.  Should lifters be replaced any time soon?

[threadkiller]

You have the good stock "big axle" tappets in your bike now. If the vehicle's been cared for? then no/not any time soon. If you're doing an upgrade ie; a cam change, then I would at that time and also change the cam bearing. TK.

[ceduby]

It's been the opinion of several on this board to change the lifters out at around 25K. You have the A lifters in now if they have never been change. I have the same bike and one of the first things I did was change out the cam, bearing and lifters. You will be amazed at the performance difference with a bolt on cam. Pretty easy to do.
Also when I pulled the original lifters one of the retaining clips was half out.
Ofcourse the flip side for me was, WOW, if it runs this good with just a bolt on cam, hmm......the following winter.......headwork, more cam, etc.......
But that's just me.
Enjoy your ride, Superglides really like the twisties

[Bruno-Katz Fokkerpilot]

Changing mine as i type, `97 Fatboy with 37,000 on the clock. Fitting EV13 cam, new HD "B" type lifters. I was begining to get a ticking sound from that vicinity, especially throttling back. All recommendations i`ve read about EVO Softail engines, say that the lifters should be changed out at around 36,000.

Do not forget the all important Torrington cam support bearing, if you pulling cams and stuff out, then you owe it yourself to install one of these.

[ClassicRider2002]

The discussions above mention the "cam bearing" what is being referred to is that the inner cam journal slips into the 13/16" sized "inner cam bearing" however over the years everyone has been more pleased with the performance offered by a "specific" "needle bearing" referred to as a B138 made by Torrington/Timken.  When installing, make sure such letters/description are out so you can read them which places the bearing in the proper direction....and be SURE to "seat" that bearing indented/recessed into the cam chest as it's designed to properly be run....if the bearing is "flush" it hasn't been recessed enough.  One of the "advantages" of using the proper tool to install is that the tool allows the proper installation without error......

As for lifters....the EVO Lifters have over the life of the OEM lifter have had some negative experiences with failures resulting from the lifter roller design.....a easy solution is to go to either screamin eagle evo lifters or Jims Big Axle lifters or simply over to the S&S evo lifter.....the Jim's lifters are the most expensive but at the end of the day who knows if they offer any more value....

If you are going to change lifters you might as well consider a cam change.......see the mouse always gets more than just a cookie, if you give a mouse a cookie he wants some milk, if you give him some milk he will want a ___________ and on and on and on...... Then eventually he will want another cookie.....lol....

Regards,

"Classic"

[Evo1]

What is the difference between the stock lifter and the Screamin Eagle lifter?

[ClassicRider2002]

Well it's somewhat hard to describe.....but if you had one of each in your hands....[or perhaps someone here who has some sort of photo ability.....(I am out of photo storage, lol) can post up close ups of each.....] the side wall of the "SE" lifter roller has more protection to keep from having the pieces" fall out" if you were able to see both.....it would make sense.....KODAK says a picture is worth a "Thousand Words"  lol and they are right......

Regards,

"Classic"

[JohnS_Rosamond]

25,000 miles is a little early for someone to suggest that the lifters "have to be changed."  I recommend that they be inspected at around 30,000m.  And this recommendation only applies if you have a performance camshaft and have installed the Torrington inner bearing (not the INA caged bearing).  If you have a stock cam, I have seen lifters survive to 80k or 90k.

I do not feel that there is significant difference between the late model OEM lifter (isn't it the dash 'B') and the aftermarket or S.E. lifters.  The dash B has the "large axle" design and will retain most of the pieces of a disintegrated lifter wheel needle bearing better than it's predecessor.  On top of that, I do not believe that the aftermarket lifters have any better needle bearings in the roller, though they might have better hydraulic valving in the lifter body.

[Hillside Motorcycle]

Do believe a Moco bulletin was issued stating inspect and/or replace at 25,000.

[springer-]

The stock "B" lifters are a good lifter.  We also recommend check/changing them at 30K.  If you are at the point of having them in your hand to check them, change them as it is cheap insurance. 

[fxr4mikey]

The stock "B" lifters are a good lifter.  We also recommend check/changing them at 30K.  If you are at the point of having them in your hand to check them, change them as it is cheap insurance. 

I'm doing a mild build on my bike, 27K miles.

I've chosen to replace the lifters .... the stock ones that came out looked perfectly fine to me ... I changed them because I do not expect to open it up again for 100K miles from now .... so I figured I'd just replace them, just because

[ClassicRider2002]

can anyone post a oem evo lifter photo and a screamin eagle evo lifter and a S&S evo lifter....I can provide someone with a Jim's Big Axle cam for a photo....(I simply have no more photo storage left)........

This might be a good spot to show some photos of each......

1) OEM EVO LIFTER "A"
2) OEM EVO LIFTER "B"
3) Screamin Eagle Lifter Evo
4) S&S Evo Lifter
5) Jims Big Axle Evo Lifter

Perhaps I am totally wrong on this....well I have edited this to include a "A" lifter as well..........

How about some photos?

Regards,

"Classic"

EDITED...

[fxr4mikey]

can anyone post a oem evo lifter photo and a screamin eagle evo lifter and a S&S evo lifter....I can provide someone with a Jim's Big Axle cam for a photo....(I simply have no more photo storage left)........

This might be a good spot to show some photos of each......

1) OEM EVO LIFTER "B"
2) Screamin Eagle Lifter Evo
3) S&S Evo Lifter
4) Jims Big Axle Evo Lifter

Perhaps I am totally wrong on this.....I would feel much more comfortable running everyone above except fot the OEM EVO "B" lifter......

How about some photos?

Regards,

"Classic"

well, I put Sifton lifters in my build ... but I didn't take any close up pics of them, and now the cam chest is closed up and has oil in it ....
I can take pictures of the stock lifters and post that ... you want it ?

[ClassicRider2002]

Mikey....

Sure take a good clear shot of the lifter.....that would be great.....then I can forward to you my photo of the Jim's Big Axle....as well and you can post this one too.....then we can get a S&S photo and post that and a Screamin Eagle...and post that...

"Classic"

[ClassicRider2002]

I looked carefully @ my 1999 FXR2-3 Parts Manual on page 7 item# 33 the part number for a OEM EVO LIFTER is HD# 18523-86A. 

I went to Chicago Harley Davidson and discovered that part # is still valid....meaning there is no such thing as a "B" lifter for the EVO engine.....unless something is wrong with my search......I would doubt that after 1999 there would be any reason to update the EVO LIFTER to a "B" since the engine was no longer being produced after 2000, and Mikey probably has a 2000 Parts Manual because of his 2000 FXR4 so perhaps he can confirm the OEM part number showing in his book....

I actually have never really disagreed with JohnS. on any subjects before.....but I say let's look at 4 different styles of lifters and make your decision.....

Regards,

"Classic"

[fxr4mikey]

Mikey....

Sure take a good clear shot of the lifter.....that would be great.....then I can forward to you my photo of the Jim's Big Axle....as well and you can post this one too.....then we can get a S&S photo and post that and a Screamin Eagle...and post that...

"Classic"

yeah Tim, send me the picture(s) and I'll take a couple of the stock one, and I'll post them up here.

[springer-]

Check more than one source 18523-86B

https://www.zanottimotor.com/shopping/pLookUp.php

$32.33 each

[fxr4mikey]

I looked carefully @ my 1999 FXR2-3 Parts Manual on page 7 item# 33 the part number for a OEM EVO LIFTER is HD# 18523-86A. 

~~

"Classic"

same part number for the 2000 fxr4

[ClassicRider2002]

I JUST DID SOME FURTHER CHECKING THANKS TO HOWIE....MR. LURKER....lol.....and he has pointed out just as Springer did above that Zanotti is pointing to a "B" Lifter so I went to Chicago Harley Davidson and here is what I found:

go to chicago harley and type in both A & B this is really wierd stuff.....and look at the price difference:

Chicago Harley Davidson HD# 18523-86A   $26.35 Retail     $21.08    <~~~~Just Called Local Dealer This One Isn't Available and
                                                                                                                         upgraded to HD# 18523-86B at the dealeship I am
                                                                                                                         contacting it goes retail for $52.24 each.
Chicago Harley Davidson HD# 18523-86B   $49.75 Retail     $39.80

That "B" Lifter is TWICE THE PRICE and is very close to the JIM'S BIG AXLE POWER GLIDE LIFTER price range which is around $60.00 each, I wonder how it is different....

So now I am going to figure out what the PART NUMBER IS FOR a SCREAMIN EAGLE "EVO" LIFTER IS.....drum rolllllllllll !!!

Screamin Eagle Lifters HD# 18568-98   ONLY SOLD AS A SET OF 4 @ $259.95. 
  Sold individually as well, HD# 18557-98 $74.95 Retail     yikes....don't ever wish to do that...lol


Regards,

"Classic"

[ClassicRider2002]

So obviously then I wonder what Mikey has in his FXR4......maybe the part number is on it.....I wonder what he had put into our bikes to begin with.....

Anyway I am not running them any longer.....running Jim's Big Axle tappets......

So anyone have a photo of a EVO TAPPET that is a HD# 18523-86A
and a photo of a EVO TAPPET that is a                     HD# 18523-86B

I wonder how the tappets are different and whether the A & B make any difference in terms of construction in terms of what I was trying to speak to above.....

Regards,

"Classic"

[springer-]

The "B" lifters have bigger axles and the needle bearings are "captured" which I believe reduces the risk of them coming apart like the "A" lifters.

[baldoldfxr]

There was a thread recently that showed pics of both types of lifter , the early type have a round wire retainer for the plunger assy the later type have a proper circlip, I think there were other differences as well .

[Caper]

Trip posted this pic a while ago of the A & B lifters....A is on the right.

[attachment removed after 60 days by system]

[ClassicRider2002]

Thanks for the above photo.....

I am referring to the differences which exist in the "side" roller area.....

Regards,

"Classic"

[JohnS_Rosamond]

If you order the 18523-86A, you wont actually get the "A" lifter.  It will come up as "superceded" on their computer and you'll actually get the 18523-86B (since Harley hasn't produced the A lifter in many years). The dash A lifter had a thinner outer wheel and a thin inner race that surrounded the actual axle.  The dash B has a much thicker outer wheel and the needle actually run on the larger diamater axle.  If my picture shows, you'll see a Shovel lifter, but note the side area around the lifter wheel.  It's much more narrow.  This is what the dash A Evo lifter area looked like. The second picture shows the old replacement lifter wheel and the thin inner race as well as the thinner outer wheel.



I hope you can see the pictures here.


EDIT: FSG, below pix added