Lets talk suspension upgrades for a bagger

[No Cents]

I'm planning on doing a suspension upgrade this winter.
The rear air shocks on my 08 FLHX are a little less than desirable. The rear is bottoming out even when I hit a not so large bump. I have them adjusted to 35 pounds and they will still bottom out. They offer a stiff ride with not much feel. I've tried many different air settings from 10pds - 40pds...none to my liking.
I know off hand of Ohlins, Penske, and Progressive...but which one will give me the best ride quality with adjustability...and not bottom out like the short factory HD FLHX air shocks will do.
Thanks for any input in advance.

[Ohio HD]

Ray I'm running 12 inch Progressive 440 HD on my Street Glide. They're a bit stiff, but I like stiff since we have very little suspension travel. I hated the air shocks, had to replace them.

[splitting_lanes]

Howard can set you up with something that will work really well

http://motorcyclemetal.com/

[04 SE Deuce]

   Ohlins...hard to beat.   Rick

[1931jamesw]

Bitubos for the rear and Traxxion Dynamics AK-20's on the front. It doesn't get any better than that. Both are adjustable for compression and rebound. I run the 300mm on back of my 2012 RGC and you can adjust ride height with the preload. They have a canister on them to adjust the compression and another adjustment for rebound. I'll try to get pictures up for you tomorrow.

[OzyMax]

progressive mono tubes up front

On the back try JRI shocks. Give Howard a call from Motorcycle metal about JRI, 12" B shocks , Built just for you

[Dodgy]

Very happy with the Progressive 944's over stock shocks.

Dave

[strokerjlk]

Good setup without breaking the bank .
Progressive mono cartridges up front , Cvo shocks on rear .
Ditch the lowering blocks .

[HighLiner]

Ohlins on the back of mine and I'm fairly happy.  Still looking for a good solution for the front but I hear Ohlins is coming out with a drop in cartridge soon.

[Deye76]

Harley short air shocks flat out suck. If one needs a lowered height, installing the 13" factory air shocks with lowering mounts gives a good ride. Handles pretty good too. 

[ndmp40]

I have progressive monotubes on the front of my 2010 EG Classic, Ohlins in the back.  Not convinced the ohlins are the right shock truthfully.  The fronts are a big improvement over stock.

[frankieb]

I have ohlin 6's on my bike and the wife has 12" jri's both are excellent shocks. the best rear shocks will be something that is built for the weights the bike will carry. I have had racetech springs and gold valve emulators that did pretty good but changed them out for monotubes. The monotubes ride better to me.

[strokerjlk]

I have ohlin 6's on my bike and the wife has 12" jri's both are excellent shocks. the best rear shocks will be something that is built for the weights the bike will carry. I have had racetech springs and gold valve emulators that did pretty good but changed them out for monotubes. The monotubes ride better to me.

That too
Frankie's bike is one of the best handling / riding dressers I ever rode .

[Helmwurst]

Have you looked into swapping out the oil in the shocks. I have read other blogs where some guys have done that and claim a noticable difference.. Anyone want to chime in on that ?

[Admiral Akbar]

Have you looked into swapping out the oil in the shocks. I have read other blogs where some guys have done that and claim a noticable difference.. Anyone want to chime in on that ?

Sure.. Tried it and it didn't work.. Valving in a stock shock sucks.

I have ohlin 6's on my bike and the wife has 12" jri's both are excellent shocks. the best rear shocks will be something that is built for the weights the bike will carry. I have had racetech springs and gold valve emulators that did pretty good but changed them out for monotubes. The monotubes ride better to me.

What was the setup on the racetech,, Bike type, springs, emulator setup?   Mono tubes do what better?  Absorb bumps?  Bottom out less?

What's an Ohlin 6?   

Max

[av ultra]

I've got my front working pretty good, slightly heaver springs, race tech cartridge kits and a mix of 50/50 se heavy/standard Harley fork oil, going to experiment with shock oils this winter on the stock shocks, I've got a 2010 ultra.

[OldFLTRider]

Good setup without breaking the bank .
Progressive mono cartridges up front , Cvo shocks on rear .
Ditch the lowering blocks .

+1 on the CVO rears.  Put them on my 2012 FLTRX last month and it's a night and day difference.  Now do I do the monotubes or the cams next???

[q1svt]

progressive mono tubes up front

On the back try JRI shocks. Give Howard a call from Motorcycle metal about JRI, 12" B shocks , Built just for you

Thanks never heard of them...
FYI, their site has one of the best {non-technical} write-up on Damper Tuning

It's at the end of the install manual...
http://www.jrishocks.com/assets/JRi%20Shocks%20Motorcycle%20Manual.pdf

[strokerjlk]

Good setup without breaking the bank .
Progressive mono cartridges up front , Cvo shocks on rear .
Ditch the lowering blocks .

+1 on the CVO rears.  Put them on my 2012 FLTRX last month and it's a night and day difference.  Now do I do the monotubes or the cams next???

Do the cams .

Bruce
Those are the ones with the remote reservoir 
I think coyote has a set also .
Real nice . And I don't care much for most of these high dollar rough azz shocks on the market .
But these are sweet . Get you a set ordered at the show in cinci .

[TRUBlue]

Progressive monotubes up front to get rid of the brake dive, if you're not too heavy or don't do much 2 up riding the CVO hand adjustable may work.  Otherwise, I'd spend the extra money and go for JRI or Ohlin.  If I had to chose cams or rear shocks, I'd pump up the rears and get the cams.  The other option is a set of Progressive 444s, not nearly as good as JRI or Ohlin but a great deal better than stock.  It seems someone is always sell them for < $300 or so when upgrading. 

[Ajayrk]

Bitubos for the rear and Traxxion Dynamics AK-20's on the front. It doesn't get any better than that. Both are adjustable for compression and rebound. I run the 300mm on back of my 2012 RGC and you can adjust ride height with the preload. They have a canister on them to adjust the compression and another adjustment for rebound. I'll try to get pictures up for you tomorrow.

That has been my experience.

[Bakon]

I ran 440 on an 06 SG with progressive spring on front and Harley's se oil. Then I added a Bagger brace. Bike was on rails and although some extra vibration from engine in handlebars at idle it rode very nice. 2009 stock front springs are improved over 2008 and older. Better spring with progressive wound.

[Admiral Akbar]

Good setup without breaking the bank .
Progressive mono cartridges up front , Cvo shocks on rear .
Ditch the lowering blocks .

+1 on the CVO rears.  Put them on my 2012 FLTRX last month and it's a night and day difference.  Now do I do the monotubes or the cams next???

Do the cams .

Bruce
Those are the ones with the remote reservoir 
I think coyote has a set also .
Real nice . And I don't care much for most of these high dollar rough azz shocks on the market .
But these are sweet . Get you a set ordered at the show in cinci .

The 1700 dollar set then..model HD 927.. Coyote is currently running Works Shocks with ARS AFAIK.. Last time I saw him that was what he had.. Works aren't too bad.. I've got the the single adjustable Ohlins after the last Cinci show and think the Works are a little better.. I still need to swap the Works to the EGC and Ohlins to the RKC..

[flhtruss]

Hello NoCents
Im sure there others but I ended up with Ohlins from Howard at Motorcycle Metal.
Spring and dampening control. Very pleased with the product. I have read that he has out JRI shocks. Might talk with him about those.
Good luck.


ps how you likening the bike so far?

[WI Bob]

I ran progressive 940 on my 2009 SG, they were decent for 25k. Then tried some JRI B. They did dampen and rebound good. But too stiff for just me at 185#. Tried some softer springs, better but still too stiff. Sold them to a 240# rider who likes them.
I am currently running some HD late model 13" with 11 ounces of Amsoil susp fluid. Best ride so far for this bike at 8-10 pounds of air.
I will say the Jri did handle the best in the curves.

[1931jamesw]

Here are the Bitubo shocks. These are really nice because they are so adjustable there are no disappointments. You can adjust stifness, ride height, compression and rebound. You can dial in the perfect ride. If you want a set, pm me, I'll set you up.[attach=0]

[attachment removed after 60 days by system]

[m1marty]

Just got done with a buddy/customers scoot. Progressive 944s in back and the racetech kit in front. Heavy springs all 4 holes drilled out and spectro 20w. Bike handles unbelievably better than stock. 2013 RG.

[04 SE Deuce]

Just got done with a buddy/customers scoot. Progressive 944s in back and the racetech kit in front. Heavy springs all 4 holes drilled out and spectro 20w. Bike handles unbelievably better than stock. 2013 RG.

Curious as to what set-up you used along with the 4 holes in the emulators and your riding impression?  Oil level,  emulator spring 64 or 40 lb/in.,  and emulator spring preload/#of turns.  Also what fork spring rate?   

Been trying to encourage guys to try the 4 hole mod. and give honest feedback.  Rick

[sfmichael]

 

[frankieb]

[/quote]

What was the setup on the racetech,, Bike type, springs, emulator setup?   Mono tubes do what better?  Absorb bumps?  Bottom out less?

What's an Ohlin 6?   

Max
[/quote]

The emulators where set up by them when I ordered them, they where set to the weights I gave them. The monotubes have done it all better for me, don't dive, don't pogo like a stock spring set, absorbs bumps better, and just an all around better ride to me. This is on a road glide. Ohlin 6's, I think that is Howard's destination, are the remote reservoirs version. 

[No Cents]

How are you guys liking the CVO HD premium adjustable shocks?

[HighLiner]

How are you guys liking the CVO HD premium adjustable shocks?

Tried them, they were a slight improvement but ended up with Ohlins.

[DOM]

Howard at Motorcycle Metal is a reseller/dealer of Ohlins and JRI.  He makes up his own names for the products which are different than the real part numbers and models from the MFG.  He know what he is doing and will hold the hand of someone who knows nothing about suspension.  It appears that he has some decent pricing available.  There are of course other dealers who sell these products.  I know Ohlins and JRI are both great.  I have the JRI and love them.  They are very well made, lots of billet parts, almost too nice to put under the saddlebags.   

[04 SE Deuce]

What was the setup on the racetech,, Bike type, springs, emulator setup?   Mono tubes do what better?  Absorb bumps?  Bottom out less?

What's an Ohlin 6?   

Max
[/quote]

The emulators where set up by them when I ordered them, they where set to the weights I gave them. The monotubes have done it all better for me, don't dive, don't pogo like a stock spring set, absorbs bumps better, and just an all around better ride to me. This is on a road glide. Ohlin 6's, I think that is Howard's destination, are the remote reservoirs version.
[/quote]

I believe RT only sends the emulators out with 2 holes in the valve disc,  IMO drilling the other 2 holes through making 4 as mentioned in their tuning guide makes a nice improvement.  I think most people shelve the emulators before they fully explore the tuning parameters.   Rick

Max,  I'm sure you have noticed that Howard makes up his own combos/numbers that don't exist at Ohlins USA.

[No Cents]

James...those Bitubo's are a thing of beauty...for sure!
Thanks for the picture.

[TorQuePimp]

  Brian ?  I thought his name was James....or is that a pet name ?

[1931jamesw]

Im James, dont know Brian. I thought I was the guy that recommended no O2 bungs in the pipe also but maybe I missed something there too? I am the anti-O2 sensor guy as dubbed by someone on another forum. That is a long thread and I probably missed more than 1 thing. Sometimes I don't get everything I read until I read it 4-5 times! LOL Im here to help and be helped, carry on as usual! 

[bxbutch]

I have the Works duel rate steel trackers on my 2011 rk & their duel rate front spings set .Took a little time to set shocks where I needed them but the bike handles great & rides real smooth.Call Works direct there tech service is great & they will set you up & help you with any issues Butch 

[hotbo]

i had a nice conversation with Howard motorcycle machine man and he can blow it out his ass 

to Arrogant for me   

CVO shocks for the money help.

Travis 

[ThumperDeuce]

I tried to buy some wheels from him once.  He informed me he only deals with high performance motorcycles.   

[1Canuck]

I got the JRI 13B from Howard at motorcycle metal for the SG because the ride height is about 11 1/2" with two up compared to stock 12"
I had no problem with Howard at all, but I did sense that he will size you up in the first few minutes and give back what he gets. If you ask he will give an answer and make sure you understood, but you cannot tell him his business, that is where he gets the arrogant designation. and the discount was great off list

[No Cents]

my bad...I don't know why I said Brian. 
I'm sorry James   

[Eglider05]

i had a nice conversation with Howard motorcycle machine man and he can blow it out his ass 

to Arrogant for me   


Travis 

Yep, this guy has a rep for being arrogant. It's really too bad for him because there are many who would like to deal with someone with his knowledge but are put off by his attitude.

Rick

[hotbo]

I got the JRI 13B from Howard at motorcycle metal for the SG because the ride height is about 11 1/2" with two up compared to stock 12"
I had no problem with Howard at all, but I did sense that he will size you up in the first few minutes and give back what he gets. If you ask he will give an answer and make sure you understood, but you cannot tell him his business, that is where he gets the arrogant designation. and the discount was great off list

i in now way told him his business.i merely called about shocks and got a schooling and learned he was a total arrogant prick and i do not spend my money with people like that!!!

i own my own buisness and if i acted like that i would be out of buisness!!

Travis 

[1931jamesw]

I had a similar experience with MM. Not exactly like some have posted here but when I set out to find the best suspension products available, MM was definitely someone I considered worthwhile to talk to. Howard is very knowledgeable but he is cut from a different cloth than most guys I usually deal with on a continual basis. All of that aside, he did tell me the AK-20's are in his opinion the best thing available for front suspension. He also explained that Penske and he were working to develop a similar cartridge but he didn't expect it to be any better than the AK-20's until Harley redesigned their triple trees with a pinch bolt on the top tree. He explained that until HD did what they did on the new touring bikes by adding the pinch bolt on the top tree that there would be nothing better than the AK-20 kits. This conversation took place before the new 2014's had been unveiled with the pinch bolt on the top tree. I can tell you from the research I have done, a lot of the CVO guys have been doing a lot of suspension upgrades and many have tried a lot of different things before settling on the AK-20's and the Bitubos. The AK-20's are also what a lot of the Goldwing guys do. We do run antiquated suspensions both front and rear and from my understanding, the front end suspension design has not changed at all until 2014 since 1988 and the design changes were minimal since the 1960's. The cartridges are a bit pricey but they are made in the USA with high quality components and craftsmanship. That was worth something to me. The rep I use from Traxxion is great to deal with also. He extended me the opportunity to run a sale on the products for this particular forum.

[1931jamesw]

BTW, I run the AK-20's up front which require a total rebuild of the forks and a minor modification to the tubes to remove the antiquated damper rod and calving system. I opted to replace both fork caps with the new caps from the AK-20 kit that has a knob on each fork tube cap. Each knob has 3 full turns of adjustability. One knob adjusts compression and one knob adjusts compression and you can adjust these on the fly. A small adjustment makes a noticeable difference in ride response and quality. It's has morphed my 2012 RGC into a completely different bike on a whole new level of performance. Doing suspension upgrades and brake upgrades are not as fun to talk about on the bar stool when everyone is breaking out their dyno sheets but from a riding stand point, it is very worthwhile IMO. The quality level of the bike seems to increase substantially. The bike has a tighter, fresher feel and handles and rides much better than words can describe, really. Posting about it really does no justice to the upgrade.

[DOM]

I bought the CCE triple tree.  It is going to be installed soon.  I have monotubes and am not impressed.  Given the choice between stock and monotubes, of course I would take the monotubes.  I did buy the JRIs from Howard.  I agree he is peculiar.  The shocks are great and makes the front end of the bike feel weak by comparison.  I talked to Traxxion about the CCE and their product and they said, no problem, great upgrade.  Howard claims to have a triple tree in development for the the older bikes which will accept the 49mm forks.  My guess is that this will be VERY expensive (i.e. more that I can afford).  The two problems I have are 1. what is likely to be the total cost of this product and 2. Howard has been working on this for like 3 years according to posts in other forums I have read. 

So on the cost, I figure he will have to sell the triple trees for what other companies sell theirs for, maybe around 700-900, then you will need two HD 2014 forks at $330 each from a discount dealer, then you will need the upgraded guts to the fork which would likely be 250 for RACETECH or 1000ish for someone's cartridges.

On the time issue, if you look at CCEs site, there are a number of PNs for their triple tree product.  So, if Howard is to release a quality well designed product, he will need to take that into consideration.  In reality, there may only be two or three real differences in the trees themselves, I think the rest of the differences on CCE end had to do with the length of the fork tube he is providing. 

So, until there is an actual product out there the best you can do from what I have read is 1. Quality rear shocks JRI Ohlin Bitubo Werks, 2. replace biscuits for the rear suspension, 3. check engine alignment 4. CCE triple trees, 5. new guts for the front forks Ohlins when they become available, Traxxion, Racetech, Ricor.

Without going crazy, that is probably the best you can do for these things at this point.

[DOM]

For some reason, I had missed that the Traxxion had adjustments for their front forks!  That is great.  If I come up with some extra $$$s they are on my list!

[1931jamesw]

Yes, the Traxxion do have adjustments for the front that changes the valving which is everything in the way the suspension performs. It is not something to overlook an the adjustments make a huge difference in the way they function. Without the adjustment, they would not be everything I'm talking them up to be.

[DOM]

I know of no other externally adjustable setup for touring bikes.  That is a big plus.  As we all know, taking the fork tubes out to make an adjustment to any of these other systems is not all that fun.  The JRI shocks I have need adjustments for sure.  It is nice to be able to go to the back of the bike and make them quickly.  It would be great to have that on the front.  I will be saving the pennies for this as a future project.

[TRUBlue]

Yes, the Traxxion do have adjustments for the front that changes the valving which is everything in the way the suspension performs. It is not something to overlook an the adjustments make a huge difference in the way they function. Without the adjustment, they would not be everything I'm talking them up to be.

External adjustments on the forks, I'd like to see those.  Where's the knob?  How much $$$?

[1931jamesw]

The adjustment is on the fork cap. I had to modify the little plastic piece that houses that. I will post pictures later. As we all know there are no one-size-fits-all on suspension until you have an adjustable suspension like the Traxxion dynamics AK 20. It's nice to even be able to change even if you ride just one up all the time. If you are out ripping around it's nice to have it set up sporty. If you're going to take a two week tour and just want to relax it's nice to soften it up. If you have a fat wife it's nice to stiffen it up. If you have a skinny girlfriend it's nice to soften it up. Are we still talking suspension? Maybe with the skinny girlfriend it's nice to stiffen it up.

[1931jamesw]

In my opinion coupling the Traxxion dynamics AK 20 with the Bitubo WMTs ensures you will not be doing suspension again there is so much adjustability and flexibility you can get the ride anyway you want it. There are no disapppointments doing it this way.

[Admiral Akbar]

Progressive monotubes up front to get rid of the brake dive, if you're not too heavy or don't do much 2 up riding the CVO hand adjustable may work.  Otherwise, I'd spend the extra money and go for JRI or Ohlin.  If I had to chose cams or rear shocks, I'd pump up the rears and get the cams.  The other option is a set of Progressive 444s, not nearly as good as JRI or Ohlin but a great deal better than stock.  It seems someone is always sell them for < $300 or so when upgrading.

FWIW Spring selection gets rid of brake dive.. You can use slow speed compression damping but it kills "plushness"

Funny but the heaviest Racteck springs for fairinged baggers, is too soft IMO.. The Racetechs heaviest 1.0kg/mm work OK on a Roadking but there is still a bit of dive..  In a fairinged bagger, they'd be too soft IMO and I weight 185.. Of course if you toss the radio, the lighter springs might be OK.. 

Max

[04 SE Deuce]

Max,  Like we have talked,  yellow 64lb/in. emulator springs set at 2 - 2.5 turns and up the oil level to get rid of dive.
The 4 hole mod. and setting the emulator spring at a low preload (2 turns) takes care of the plushness. 

More progressive spring and damping curves....we're working with big heavy, soft sprung, limited travel cruisers.   Rick

[No Cents]

got any pictures of your front suspension set up James? ...I got the name right this time   

[1931jamesw]

I'll get some up later tonight. Still working in the shop tonight trying to catch up a little. PM returned.

[Admiral Akbar]

Max,  Like we have talked,  yellow 64lb/in. emulator springs set at 2 - 2.5 turns and up the oil level to get rid of dive.
The 4 hole mod. and setting the emulator spring at a low preload (2 turns) takes care of the plushness. 

More progressive spring and damping curves....we're working with big heavy, soft sprung, limited travel cruisers.   Rick

Well.. The last I checked you don't own a road toad or a bagger..    I'll reserve judgement until someone that copies your idea on one of those..  Now some thoughts..

1. Is upping the fluid leveled from 160 to 150 going to increase the support of the front end in the first 1/2 of the travel (from static sag) or then second 1/2?

2. which one is going to cause less dive?  2 holes in the plate and 2 turns on a 64 inch/pound spring or 4 holes in the plate and 2 turns on a 64 inch/pound spring ?

Max

[1931jamesw]

I highly discourage running any other fluid level than the proper level. It can cause a very dangerous or deadly situation. Im game for running 150 MPH plus but I would never want to run improper amount of fluid in the forks. Heres a pictures of the adjustment of the AK-20's. There is a knob on each fork cap. One for compression and one for rebound. This picture shows the cap installed with the knob.

[attachment removed after 60 days by system]

[1931jamesw]

Heres one with the shroud replaced. I modified the plastic by opening the area up with a die grinder so I can adjust the knobs on the fly running down the road. The knobs turn very easily, I can turn them with one finger.

[attachment removed after 60 days by system]

[q1svt]

2. which one is going to cause less dive?  2 holes in the plate and 2 turns on a 64 inch/pound spring or 4 holes in the plate and 2 turns on a 64 inch/pound spring ?

Max

Since it seems that people doing this also go from 2 holes & 10w fork oil to 4 holes & 20w... doesn't seem that there is anything really different.

JRI, writeup suggests to little rear shock rebound dampening can increase weight transfer to the front forks, adding some can slow the weight transfer to the front forks... guess it's all about about balance and rider preference.

Rebound damping can also effect weight transfer, cornering, and feel of the motorcycle. The lighter the amount of rebound damping front or rear will greatly affect your weight transfer of the motorcycle. If you lessen the rebound damping in the front forks of the motorcycle it will transfer weight quicker to the rear of the motorcycle as the brakes are released or under acceleration. The same goes for the rear shock, if you lessen the rebound damping in the rear it will quicken the weight transfer to the front of the motorcycle especially as you apply the front brakes, and on turn in.

edited: forgot to mention that braking technique (too little rear braking/ timing] is the most commend cause of frontend drive...

[DrSpencer]

I'm using Traxxion's AK-20 & Bitubo suspension on my 2011 Street Glide.

I'd like to add CCE's triple trees, but can't get a definitive answer if they're compatible with the AK-20's.

A couple months ago, I spoke with both Traxxion & CCE, and neither vendor could assure correct fitment.

If anyone has any additional info, please share.

Thanks

[Admiral Akbar]

2. which one is going to cause less dive?  2 holes in the plate and 2 turns on a 64 inch/pound spring or 4 holes in the plate and 2 turns on a 64 inch/pound spring ?

Max

Since it seems that people doing this also go from 2 holes & 10w fork oil to 4 holes & 20w... doesn't seem that there is anything really different.

JRI, writeup suggests to little rear shock rebound dampening can increase weight transfer to the front forks, adding some can slow the weight transfer to the front forks... guess it's all about about balance and rider preference.

Rebound damping can also effect weight transfer, cornering, and feel of the motorcycle. The lighter the amount of rebound damping front or rear will greatly affect your weight transfer of the motorcycle. If you lessen the rebound damping in the front forks of the motorcycle it will transfer weight quicker to the rear of the motorcycle as the brakes are released or under acceleration. The same goes for the rear shock, if you lessen the rebound damping in the rear it will quicken the weight transfer to the front of the motorcycle especially as you apply the front brakes, and on turn in.

edited: forgot to mention that braking technique (too little rear braking/ timing] is the most commend cause of frontend drive...

I think that the JRI suspension tuning guide is more about sport bikes where the weight transfer is greater from the back to the front..

Changing the fork oil will also effect rebound damping and flow through the valve when open..

Max

[m1marty]

Max,  Like we have talked,  yellow 64lb/in. emulator springs set at 2 - 2.5 turns and up the oil level to get rid of dive.
The 4 hole mod. and setting the emulator spring at a low preload (2 turns) takes care of the plushness. 

More progressive spring and damping curves....we're working with big heavy, soft sprung, limited travel cruisers.   Rick

Well.. The last I checked you don't own a road toad or a bagger..    I'll reserve judgement until someone that copies your idea on one of those..  Now some thoughts..

1. Is upping the fluid leveled from 160 to 150 going to increase the support of the front end in the first 1/2 of the travel (from static sag) or then second 1/2?

2. which one is going to cause less dive?  2 holes in the plate and 2 turns on a 64 inch/pound spring or 4 holes in the plate and 2 turns on a 64 inch/pound spring ?

Max

Max- 2013 Roag Glide. 1.0kg springs,Yellow springs, 2.5 turns, 4 holes, proper amount of fluid (spectro 20w) Brake dive, while still there to a small extent, is so much better than stock its remarkable. Coupled with the 944s out back this bike ride very nice. Its set up a bit stiff as its ridden pretty hard. Not traxk bike nice but much better than stock. A little real world feedbaxk for ya......

[DOM]

DrSpencer.  I half remember speaking with Traxxion about the the CCE and thought they had a solution.  The thing to remember here, is that the CCE system comes with new fork tubes.  You will need to have Traxxion disassemble your your existing forks, modify the CCE tubes (like they modify all other tubes), reassemble.  I know progressive will provide longer fork caps for their cartridge system for the CCE tubes.  I would find it shocking that Traxxion cannot do the same.  If you call them and they don't know, ask to speak with someone higher up the food chain.  Many times entry level sales people or people who are experts on another type of bike will answer the phone at many companies.  So plan you the expense of the CCE kit and the labor at Traxxion to reassemble your forks.

[Admiral Akbar]

Max- 2013 Roag Glide. 1.0kg springs,Yellow springs, 2.5 turns, 4 holes, proper amount of fluid (spectro 20w) Brake dive, while still there to a small extent, is so much better than stock its remarkable. Coupled with the 944s out back this bike ride very nice. Its set up a bit stiff as its ridden pretty hard. Not traxk bike nice but much better than stock. A little real world feedbaxk for ya......

Thanks..

Max

[No Cents]

I've been doing a little bit of reading on the Progressive 944 shocks...it seems everything I've read on them that they well liked and made a huge difference in the ride. I see them listed on E-Bay for around $500.00 for a set.
Anyone ran a set of these thru the paces...and what did you think of them?

[HD/Wrench]

 You get what you pay for the 944 is a really basic shock.. On a hd its somewhat high tech , but rather old tech. It a great up grade over stock, then you ride a bike with Ohlins and you wonder why you bothered with the 944.  Even the cheap coil over Drag shock is better than stock. If you can find a deal buy em.,   

[No Cents]

Steve...I really like the Bitubo's that James has to offer.
I read that the 944's perform a lot better than the set up I currently have with the stock short HD air shocks and was just wondering if anyone has been running them.
At this point...I think even a stock 13" shock would be an improvement to my ride. I'm not in a hurry to buy anything...so I'll keep researching for all my options...then decide.
Bitubo's and Ohlins are on top of my list so far.

[HD/Wrench]

I have 944 and they are ok but then again I have installed the others and ridden them.  Not messed with the other.. not sure I would even try them The ohlins never fail  to impress the end user.

[No Cents]

what's your complaint on the 944's?

[frankieb]

Look into the JRI's aswell,according to howard the valveing is supposed to be better. They are cheaper then the ohlin's and if i am not mistaking i believe they are american made.

[1931jamesw]

We have Ohlins also. If you want to ride a bike with the Bitubo and a bike with the Ohlins, you'll wonder why you bothered with the Ohlins. Plus they cost a lot more. Call Dan at Traxxion Dynamics and ask him. They have two bikes (same model) with each for customers to ride. They sell a lot more Bitubos. I can sell you a set of Ohlins and make more money off of them but that's not the point. Not for me at least anyway.

[No Cents]

Just out of curiosity...I picked up a new set of take off 13" HD air shocks with 0 miles on them...off E-Bay today for $68.00 shipped to my door. I'm going to try them and see if it will take away the bottoming out issue for now.
I know they are not Bitubo's or Ohlins...but hopefully these will work for the little time we have left to ride here this season in Ohio...before the white stuff starts flying.
I will save my pennies up and buy a completely different suspension set up this winter.

[1931jamesw]

Ray, the longer travel will likely help if you are experiencing problems with bottoming out. That said, it will also be detrimental to center of gravity and in turn, the response of the bike for cornering and turning etc. An extreme example but one that I think displays my point is, Ever notice how big jacked up 4 wheel drive trucks dont exactly handle real well compared to a low center of gravity go kart? Extreme example I know but I noticed a difference in response on an 09 Street Glide just by going from the stock 17" wheel on the front to a 18" wheel form a 2010 model on the same bike (09 SG) and nothing else changed. The smaller sidewall on the 18" made a noticeable difference in the way the bike responded/handled. You have aftermarket wheels and larger ones than stock at that on your bike. Did you notice a difference when you replaced the stockers with the ones youre running now? I am planning to remove the 16" rear and 18" front from my 2012 RGC and go to 18" rear and 19" front. Im hoping this will be the best of both worlds. At a certain point, the point of diminishing returns shows up and the small sidewall that you get with the big wheels starts to negatively affect ride quality.

[q1svt]

... I noticed a difference in response on an 09 Street Glide just by going from the stock 17" wheel on the front to a 18" wheel form a 2010 model on the same bike (09 SG) and nothing else changed. The smaller sidewall on the 18" made a noticeable difference in the way the bike responded/handled. You have aftermarket wheels and larger ones than stock at that on your bike. Did you notice a difference when you replaced the stockers with the ones youre running now? I am planning to remove the 16" rear and 18" front from my 2012 RGC and go to 18" rear and 19" front. Im hoping this will be the best of both worlds. At a certain point, the point of diminishing returns shows up and the small sidewall that you get with the big wheels starts to negatively affect ride quality.

The change in tire profile [along with load rating] impacts tire stiffness, which in turn directly effects the overall suspension stiffness and damping curves... I agree with you on the performance change in tire size, and like that HD has been separating the ride and handling of the SG from it's other FLH models in the same way by changing front load rating, wheel and tires sizes [current 2014 SG are +3 over the original 16", @ 130/60/19b 61H; other non-CVO 2014 FLH 130/80/17B 65H; 2006 MT90{130}/90/16 73H]. 

Independent, as a dealer for the Traxxion's AK-20, do you know [or could you inquire] to what extent does Traxxion go in figuring tire and wheels in to their AK-20 fork kits, based on each customers specific bikes, modifications?  tks

[04 SE Deuce]

       Rick
   

[mrmike]

I'm glad this thread was started I've already done the Progressive Monotubes in my 03 RK a couple of years ago and this winters upgrade was my rear suspension, still running the stock shocks.

There are a lot of really good shocks out there and I want to spend the dough once and do it right as opposed to installing the Monotubes and then reading about the Traxxion AK-20.
 
Decisions decisions, though in all honesty after 10 years on the stock shocks leaf springs would be an improvement,lol.

Independent1 I like the look of those shocks whats the price on that setup? I assume they are built to order.

Mike

[No Cents]

mike...James (INDEPENDENT 1) has them listed with the price in the Vendor section...on sale now and in stock.

they look sweet!
I'll probably end up with a set of the Bitubos WMT's on the rear myself...eventually.

[1931jamesw]

The Bitubo WMT's are fully adjustable and are available in 11-3/4" (300mm) and 13" (330mm). As for the question regarding AK-20 kits, the kits are tailored to your weight, how much you ride solo vs. 2 up, what bike you are upgrading and rider style. Wheel and tires are not really a part of the equation as far as the AK-20 components go but as mentioned earlier, those do absolutely change the handling characteristics.

[TexasBowhunter]

When you start looking you need to have a price in mind as to how much your willing to spend...
There are allot of offerings and many more opinions out there....from basic just changing out the fluids to the sky's the limit...

Break down how much you are willing to pay for the front suspension then the back and then start your looking...untill then there is so many offerings it will make you head spin and then trying to get an idea of what others are running isn't going to tell your arse what you personally will like...

The best thing to do is ride one with the packages you'll be wanting and see how you like it...
The CVO forums has allot of the bitubos and traxxion information...they were considered the pioneers in the harley family...somebody close to you has the traxxion and bitubos and will allow you to rise it for a while so you can get a feeling of what your money will buy...

FWIW

[q1svt]

Thanks for the info...  I asked because the 2010-13 CVO SG & RG, HD went back to the 2006 Damper Valves for the 18" & 19" wheels, where the CVO Ultra's stayed with the 09 version as with all of the 2009-13 non-cvo FLH's.

Independent, could you share/post [In your Vendor site] the pricing on the AK-20's for HTT members or is it the same as on the Traxxion site? tks

[hbkeith]

I sure would like to see some prices on all these upgrades , not everyone can drop thousands of $ for shocks. my neighbor just put a set of $30 stock rear shocks (spring shocks) of a 82 tourglide on his 05 bagger . they where a improvement over the HD air shock

[DOM]

Prices +/- if you do your own work.  If not, you need to add labor for the front end work.

Rear shocks $600-900. 
Front - CCE triple tree $850
Fork guts from Racetech $300
or
Traxxion cartridges $1300ish
or
Ohlins $1000ish when released.

Motorcycle metal will release something in the future for triple trees and 49mm forks.  My best GUESS is $800 for triple trees, $700 for forks and $1000 for fork guts.

What other prices are you curious about?

Don't forget, you still need to have your bike aligned, have decent tires and make sure your swingarm biscuits are in good shape or you will be chasing your tail with all of this.  In other words, start with the basics.

[q1svt]

I sure would like to see some prices on all these upgrades , not everyone can drop thousands of $ for shocks. my neighbor just put a set of $30 stock rear shocks (spring shocks) of a 82 tourglide on his 05 bagger . they where a improvement over the HD air shock

For older FLH's, I wouldn't rule out the upgrade to the 2009 HD fork setup [Springs (upper), Damping Tube and Valve] which are 30% firmer over the 2006 HD upgrade... for less than $95.00 retail HD, plus a rebuild kit.  You can still adjust ride via differences in fork oil weight.  Grant you it's not a cartridge ride but better than the older setup.  Leaves $$$ for rear upgrade where the bulk of the weight is carried on a FLH.

[1931jamesw]

Yes, I'll post in my vendor area. There is not a lot of markup in these for the dealers but I will offer discounts to forum members. The fork cap with the rebound adjustment is not standard equipment. Maybe I could throw those in for forum members or offer a discount. I didnt realize the MoCo had changed the valving based on wheel size, thanks for the info. With them, you always have to wonder if they are just using up old inventory and maybe they felt like they could use them up since the handling improved because of the larger wheel. Pure speculation on my part, I really dont have any idea. I will do more research on valving in relation to wheel size. The Bitubos I have listed are the top of the line WMT's and they are the chrome plated ones. They are the only ones Ive sold. I will see what I can do for you members on powder coated springs also. I cant remember their cost but I believe they have yellow, red and black available. I will find out about that as well.

[q1svt]

I didnt realize the MoCo had changed the valving based on wheel size, thanks for the info. With them, you always have to wonder if they are just using up old inventory and maybe they felt like they could use them up since the handling improved because of the larger wheel. Pure speculation on my part...

There's a difference for the CVO's.  Me too... I'm guessing that the 06 valve has a little more damping adding a small performance feel. But will not know for sure until we pull the bikes forks and examine them...  [unless someone here has a 2006-8 Valve #46209-06; and a 2009-13 Valve #46209-09 and measures the orifices]

[04 SE Deuce]

Referring to the HD fork valves:  besides hole size you would also need to compare valve spring rate and amount of preload.  If the spring had the same diameter wire and same number of coils then likely the same spring. A check to see what pressure is required to open the valve would get you close on a comparison.

I would install some quality adjustable valves like RT emulators rather than mess swapping/buying more non-adjustable HD valves.   

2. which one is going to cause less dive?  2 holes in the plate and 2 turns on a 64 inch/pound spring or 4 holes in the plate and 2 turns on a 64 inch/pound spring ?

Max

Since it seems that people doing this also go from 2 holes & 10w fork oil to 4 holes & 20w... doesn't seem that there is anything really different.

JRI, writeup suggests to little rear shock rebound dampening can increase weight transfer to the front forks, adding some can slow the weight transfer to the front forks... guess it's all about about balance and rider preference.

Rebound damping can also effect weight transfer, cornering, and feel of the motorcycle. The lighter the amount of rebound damping front or rear will greatly affect your weight transfer of the motorcycle. If you lessen the rebound damping in the front forks of the motorcycle it will transfer weight quicker to the rear of the motorcycle as the brakes are released or under acceleration. The same goes for the rear shock, if you lessen the rebound damping in the rear it will quicken the weight transfer to the front of the motorcycle especially as you apply the front brakes, and on turn in.

edited: forgot to mention that braking technique (too little rear braking/ timing] is the most commend cause of frontend drive...

The minimal rebound damping required is the desired goal...just shy of springy/loose.


The nice thing about adjustable fork valves is that you can tailor the compression damping curve separate from rebound damping.  After selecting the appropriate viscosity fork oil for desired rebound damping,  you can then set the valve for compression damping,  number of holes in the valve for low speed,  preload of the spring to set the crossover point from slow to med/high, spring rate to tailor med/high speed.

I think a lot of guys are reluctant to modify the valves for 4 holes total,  newer valves come with these holes predrilled but only part way through.  One concern may be increased dive/total travel,  adding the additional slow speed holes has a small/minimal effect on dive or total travel movement...equivalent of 1/2 to 1 turn emulator spring preload.  IMO a better way to maintain ride quality and reduce dive (especially after the 4 hole mod) is to use the stiffer yellow 64lb/in. spring set at a lower preload so the transition point from slow - med/high comp. damping is at a low enough pressure to maintain ride quality/bump absorption.  The yellow 64lb/in. spring opens slower and less distance than the blue 40 lb/in. spring set at a similar preload pressure,  ex: 40lb/in. at 3 turns ='s 120,  64lb/in. at 2 turns ='s 128, etc.  With the 40lb/in. and the 64lb/in. springs set at an equivalent preload the transition point from low to med/high speed damping will be similar as will ride quality on small stuff and "initial" reaction to big bumps,  but because the 64lb/in. spring opens slower and less distance it doesn't allow the forks to travel as far,  so less dive and more bottoming resistance...still mutes the big stuff nicely without using up travel needlessly. Upping the oil level some adds another step in controlling dive/bottoming while maintaining ride quality.

The goal is the have good ride quality and control without excessive dive/travel/bottoming.  IMO the 4 hole mod. is an improvement on most HD applications,  minimizes small bumps and surface stuff that you feel in the bars.   4 holes,  yellow 64lb/in. spring set at 2 to 2.5 turns,  oil level in the 130 -150mm range, 20wt.,  is a set-up with good synergy.   


Here is Race Tech's Emulator tuning guide:

[attach=0]

[attach=1]

Choosing the right fork spring rate for your total bike/rider weight allong with getting the valves and oil level/volume set for your riding style and preferences can make a substantial difference.  I think emulator spring preload and oil weight is the most common adjustments most people make/try,  there's more to be had,  instead of settling or changing to other suspension components,  utilize all the tuning options for the best personal result.       Rick




























[attachment removed after 60 days by system]

[04 SE Deuce]

I highly discourage running any other fluid level than the proper level. It can cause a very dangerous or deadly situation. Im game for running 150 MPH plus but I would never want to run improper amount of fluid in the forks.

James,  Curious as to what scares you about using oil level as a tuning option?  When you say proper oil level,  I take that as you mean the amount specified by Harley or when installing an aftermarket kit like Race Tech the amount suggested in the kit instructions,  even though RT gives a range of oil level/volume like suggested in the tuning guide. 

Some people pour in the specified amount of oil that Harley specs. for their model without actually measuring the level in the fork tube or considering changes they have made that effect oil level.

Some conditions/changes that effect oil level: 

-  How well the oil has been drained or whether completely disassembled and cleaned.
-  Adding valves or other parts that take up volume.
-  Changing springs,  wire diameter and number of coils changes volume,  better quality springs can have
   smaller diameter wire and fewer coils so less volume,  even preload spacers of different lengths/thicknesses
   can have an effect.
   

Since these bikes are heavy, relatively soft sprung and have limited travel they typically can use help with excessive travel/bottoming and dive.  Tuning the air spring volume (oil level)is one area that can improve this.

I have not seen any post here on HTT nor have I suggested running an oil level that would cause the forks to hydraulic,  shorten travel or damage seals.  If you talk to someone that handles something dirtier than a phone at RT,  an actual tech,  they will suggest increasing the oil level.  Matt Willey who authored the RT emulator tuning guide will suggest increasing oil level beyond the 6.3" that is in some of the instructions for Harleys as a means to further control travel used.  Matt told me a few years back to up my oil level at least 1/2" and likely more to get what I needed.  In another conversation he suggested trying 4 holes and the yellow spring set at 2 - 2.5 turns and staying with 20wt....his experience and suggestions have been spot on IMO.  Just passing it on.    Rick

[q1svt]

I would install some quality adjustable valves like RT emulators rather than mess swapping/buying more non-adjustable HD valves.   

The nice thing about adjustable fork valves is that you can tailor the compression damping curve separate from rebound damping.  After selecting the appropriate viscosity fork oil for desired rebound damping,  you can then set the valve for compression damping,  number of holes in the valve for low speed,  preload of the spring to set the crossover point from slow to med/high, spring rate to tailor med/high speed.

Yes that's true ... but suspension tuning to the under-informed has a down side with getting it wrong, it can lead to DEATH.



I will inform those that read this reply that Deuce and I have gone a couple rounds before in another thread.  So, here goes... Deuce I generally try to skip over your posts to prevent another go-a-round. Sorry you choose to reference me...


'Lets talk suspension upgrades for a bagger' see reply 57 ... [and this is from a friend of yours]

Well.. The last I checked you [Deuce] don't own a road toad or a bagger..    I'll reserve judgement until someone that copies your idea on one of those.. 

I'll add: After our last go-a-round I called RT and spoke with a Tech Rep. He was very helpful as I described two different FLH* bikes and ask for his recommendation's
"Use the BLUE spring in the emulator, with TWO turns, and TWO holes"

Since there are two Tech Rep's I called back on the other number... again the next person was very helpful as I described the same two FLH* bikes and ask for his recommendations...
"Use the BLUE spring in the emulator, with TWO turns, and TWO holes"

Each time I heard this I mention that I read blogs about some pretty different recommendations for their products... there was a long pause... .... ... ... and then a response of        

Racetech can be reached @ (951) 279-6655
Technical Support - Louie - ext. 109,  Terry - ext. 110
Nice people give them a call 



This is from the prior thread, but I think it speaks volumes...

q1svt,  It's humorous that you have the impression that I am "book smart" as I am definitely counter to that perspective.  I know I could definitely benefit from some quality reading time.  I have suggested books here on HTT that I know the author and endorsements of but personally don't own.  I have planned to buy a RT suspension bible and Nick Ienatsch's book but haven't gotten around to it.  If you would be gracious enough to put me on your Christmas list I promise to read them in entirety.

It's not going to happen, so you really need to find some way to get spare change...  You can skip these books even-thro there is good information in the RT Bible, it's not what the title suggests...

BUT you should take the advice a friend of yours and buy the copy of  'Motorcycle Dynamics' by Vittore Cossalter [the first, the second, or the Italitan edition].  Your MO says you will do otherwise, so my last piece of advise is to contact your insurance agent and double down on the valve of your umbrella policy...

      Rick

[HogBag]

The suspension on these baggers is from 1980 Japanese technology so anything has got to be better than stock. I found the biggest gain with handling was getting the wheels aligned correct and then updating the fork springs with a heavy weight oil to hold the forks from bouncing down the road. The rear shocks are from a goldwing bike from the past and have 2 1/2 inch travel  making pot holes hit hard through the rider and pillions spine. Any 13 inch shock with more travel has got to be money well spent for your kidneys sake. 

[Ray G]

I'm new on this site but I have to agree with the recommendations from Independent 1.  I put the Traxxion set up on my 08 CVO Road King when the bike was fairly new due to the harsh ride and about zero rear wheel travel.  I hadn't driven 2 miles from the dealership when I said Oh Crap I just bought the wrong bike.  They let me try the Road King but not the CVO Road King when I did my test ride.  The 08 CVO Road Kings were lowered from the original Road Kings and the difference between the 12" and the 13" was amassing.  I installed the AK-20 on the front end and the 13" Bitubo's on the rear.  I ride the bike hard enough to have had to replace the legs that hold the floor boards on and a True Track mount so I know it handles well.  Yes it was expensive but when you have a bad neck or a wrecked spine like my personal situation it was well worth it.  You can spend all the money you want on the motor to go fast in a straight line but the suspension will allow you to corner with confidence.   Probably the best money I ever spent on that bike.   

[1931jamesw]

Thanks, Ray, and welcome to HTT! That brings up a good point. Guys that have ridden bikes for years with sub par suspensions and endured back injuries from those bikes, maybe even rigids and blown out knees from kick starting the old bikes really have an opportunity to possibly extend their riding years and ride more comfortably than they have previous to upgrading suspensions. Harley's are recognized as the best motorcycle in the world by a lot of people and its just a shame they charge a premium price for something so antiquated and out-dated. I admit one of the things that I like about Harley is that even though they make changes, their bikes still look very similar to the bikes they made years ago. They are copied by other manufacturers constantly. The bad part is they charge that premium price for subpar equipment. Changing to AK-20's changes nothing as far as the way the bike looks. They could have done more to make these bikes ride a lot better without tarnishing their image. The shocks do obviously look different but they are covered by saddlebags on baggers and frames on softails so that is really a non issue in my mind and its not like the stock shocks are something that really add to the looks of a stock bike. My GF of 10 years loves to ride. I really got into this suspension stuff and started researching it not only because my bike is kinda the thing that I like to make better and something I usually do research on before making a decision on anything that goes on it but also because she has Rheumatoid Arthritis. Its the crippling kind. She was a professional basketball player and was a key player on championship teams. She blew her knee out and the RA set in and her career was over. Shes on chemotherapy now to combat the relentless attack of her immune system on her joints. She loves to ride now but the all day rides we like to do tend to beat her up sometimes. We rode 280 miles yesterday and shes already noticed a huge improvement. We have not bottomed out since I upgraded and the jolt we used to have is pretty much totally gone. Oklahoma roads are to be thanked for what little we still feel. The bike handles so much better and it just soaks the bumps up effortlessly. After buying products in the past that I ended up replacing again, this time I just went straight to the best I could find based on the research I had done and talking to guys that had ran other stuff before going to AK-20's and Bitubo's and without a doubt, this stuff wont be getting replaced with anything else. I cant imagine anything else possibly being a better product and the AK's are made in the USA. I can get behind that also.

[ThumperDeuce]

So how do the Bitubo shocks compare to the Progressive, Works and the ones Ohlin use to make for softails?

http://www.bitubo.com/articoli-dettaglio.php?ID=HD015HMG12&Marca=HARLEY%20DAVIDSON&Modello=SOFTAIL

[No Cents]

I got those 13" shocks the other day I bought off E-Bay. They were brand new take offs with "0" miles on them.
I figured I would drain the oil out of them and put some #10 fork oil in for hopefully a little better feel. I was shocked at what came out of the shocks. Small pieces of metal shavings came out with the oil. The oil was clean as a pin other than that. One shock had 9 oz in it...and the other had 11 oz  .
I made a hillbilly shock press out of some lumber I had laying around and two ladder feet for mounting the shocks...it worked great. I screwed a barb into the shock air line hole and used a clear hose attach to the barb.  I pumped the handle about 10 times and the shock was totally empty.
I'm going to turn the shocks over tomorrow and put 10 oz in each shock and give that a try.

Here is the rig I made...don't laugh..it works great.

[attach=0]




[attachment removed after 60 days by system]

[No Cents]

I filled the 13" HD air shocks with new 10W oil when I got home from work. I put 11 oz in them each. I put the bike up on the lift and figured I'd get the synthetic 60 wt summer oil out of the engine and put some synthetic 15W-50 in for the winter.
While the oil was draining...I said what the heck...I'll put the new shocks on too.
I told you the bike was bottoming out it seemed more and more lately in the past few weeks. 
Here's what I found. This is the 2nd set of HD 12" air shocks that did this to me   

[attach=0]

[attachment removed after 60 days by system]

[06roadglide]

It's the lowering blocks  Ray.  Dump them!
I tried them with 13" shocks and my tire rubbed the top of the fender.
They aren't good!!

[No Cents]

I kept the lowering blocks on again. It raised the back end of the bike a little higher with the 13" shocks...and gave it more clearance on the tire to the fender.
I'll see what this does and if I don't like it...I'll get a set of Bitubo's...but they are only 11 3/4" long. I will definitely dump the lowering blocks with them.

[Admiral Akbar]

Everybody is talking Bloomingdale's and Nocents is talking Walmart.. 

Max

[No Cents]

I gotta go with what the wallet will let me go with...for now Max.
But I'll eventually make it to Bloomingdale's   

[Deye76]

You can talk whatever you like Ray...it's your thread.  Many complaints of the factory short air shocks. In fact after they have 10k on 'em, they all complain. On the other hand, few complaints of 13" with or without lowering blocks. So far with all the switchbacks in this area the OE and lowering blocks (50,000+ miles on 'em)  are doing well. If the majority or riding is done in flat, straight farm country, the OE is fine. If I had the coin, I'd try the Bitubo's. Nothing wrong with testing the OE before laying down the cash.

[1931jamesw]

I can't wait till you get the Bitubo's, Ray. When you get a set of those on, them you'll really notice how terrible the front is also. 

[biggzed]

Might be worth your time to pull the rear wheel and take a look at the wiring harness that runs up the rear fender. Don't ask me how I know.....

Zach

I filled the 13" HD air shocks with new 10W oil when I got home from work. I put 11 oz in them each. I put the bike up on the lift and figured I'd get the synthetic 60 wt summer oil out of the engine and put some synthetic 15W-50 in for the winter.
While the oil was draining...I said what the heck...I'll put the new shocks on too.
I told you the bike was bottoming out it seemed more and more lately in the past few weeks. 
Here's what I found. This is the 2nd set of HD 12" air shocks that did this to me   

[attach=0]

[No Cents]

I couldn't wait to get home from work today and try this new 13" shock set up.
Well...here is the full report.
I rode the bike locally about 20 miles trying purposely to hit all the known bumps that I have bottomed out on since I purchased this bike new in 2008.
It rolled over every bump in the road smooth as silk with not even a trace of knowing the bumps were there. There is one calvert bump that I would have to slow down to 20 mph and lift my butt off the seat to keep from bottoming out. I went over that calvert bump at 60 mph and didn't even feel it.
This is the best ride this bike has ever had. I'm all smiles   

[ThumperDeuce]

 

Out of curiosity, how is the heat flow out from the new pipe?  Does the stainless really not conduct heat efficiently?  Does it feel any different from the Zilla and what kind of a coating does the Zilla have?

[No Cents]

The Zilla has no coating. The Burns pipe has done nothing but amaze me in every way possible. The pipe flows amazingly and it seems to radiate less heat off it when it's running vs the Zilla...and the Zilla even had heat shields.
The pipe also seems to cool down way faster when you shut the bike off...if that's what your asking.
It needs a Strokerjlk tune on it to dial it in better...but it's very rideable right now.

[strokerjlk]

I filled the 13" HD air shocks with new 10W oil when I got home from work. I put 11 oz in them each. I put the bike up on the lift and figured I'd get the synthetic 60 wt summer oil out of the engine and put some synthetic 15W-50 in for the winter.
While the oil was draining...I said what the heck...I'll put the new shocks on too.
I told you the bike was bottoming out it seemed more and more lately in the past few weeks. 
Here's what I found. This is the 2nd set of HD 12" air shocks that did this to me   

[attach=0]

about time you fix that hardtail
hate to say it , but i will anyway. .....told you so 
now about those lowering blocks......... how long until you overstress  another shock?
nice shock pump,you whipped up

[No Cents]

wait until you ride it the next time...HUGE difference...it will feel like a totally different bike than you last rode!   

[strokerjlk]

wait until you ride it the next time...HUGE difference...it will feel like a totally different bike than you last rode!   

I bet it will . Nice job . I am excited now myself  . (No secret I hated the ride.)
watch it will come 3 ft of snow now 
Bring that hillbilly pump , I got a couple pair of shocks to do also . Please

[CowboyBagger]

Look into the JRI's aswell,according to howard the valveing is supposed to be better. They are cheaper then the ohlin's and if i am not mistaking i believe they are American made.

I got a bad set of springs from the JRI shocks that I got from Howard.  They are so stiff the ride really sucks and they are set at the lowest possible position.  This winter I plan on getting the issue resolved either thru Howard or direct with JRI.  Or I might ride down to Tulsa and have Mr. Independent 1 take a look at a possible cure.

Cowboy

[No Cents]

wait until you ride it the next time...HUGE difference...it will feel like a totally different bike than you last rode!   

I bet it will . Nice job . I am excited now myself  . (No secret I hated the ride.)
watch it will come 3 ft of snow now 
Bring that hillbilly pump , I got a couple pair of shocks to do also . Please

No problem...I'll make sure I drop the pump off too.

[Deye76]

Glad it worked out Ray. As Jim pointed out, love the "hillbilly pump" 

[No Cents]

the old "hillbilly pump" worked great...but I'm making a few modifications to it to make it stonger. I used a 2x6 for the base...but I'm going to change it out to a 2x10 or a 2x12 so you can put both feet on it. It should make it more stable with both your feet on the end. I mounted an underground primary cable clamp to the top of the upright 2x4 (not pictured)...which when filling the shocks I put a funnel thru it to hold it in place...which is mounted up higher than the shock. With the clear hose attached to it and to the barb screwed into the shock...you can watch the air burping back thru the hose into the funnel...and the oil flowing into the shock while gently pumping the lever.
I'll make sure I post a little better picture showing it.

[Ray G]

If you think the 13" Bitubo's made such a big difference wait until you try the Traxxion AK-20 front end.  While I really like the Bitubo's and they are worth every penny the front end really responded well to the Traxxion set up.  The combination lets the bike handle well over rough sections without bottoming out or walking on tight corners.  In my case it give me the confidence to change my cornering technique dramatically.  Glad to hear you had such a positive experience.  I would love to have a twin exhaust to install on my S&S 124" crate motor.  It sounds very unique and extremely aggressive.     

[StreetKing]

Thanks NO Cents and everyone for all the great info. Being retired money is a little funny. So getting something better than stock is a plus. Now the front suspension is affordable. I'll go with the progressive mono tubes. Like I said better than stock.

[No Cents]

If you think the 13" Bitubo's made such a big difference wait until you try the Traxxion AK-20 front end.  While I really like the Bitubo's and they are worth every penny the front end really responded well to the Traxxion set up.  The combination lets the bike handle well over rough sections without bottoming out or walking on tight corners.  In my case it give me the confidence to change my cornering technique dramatically.  Glad to hear you had such a positive experience.  I would love to have a twin exhaust to install on my S&S 124" crate motor.  It sounds very unique and extremely aggressive.   

I dont have Bitubo's. I bought a set of 13" HD air shocks and re-worked them for now.

[strokerjlk]

The suspension on these baggers is from 1980 Japanese technology so anything has got to be better than stock. I found the biggest gain with handling was getting the wheels aligned correct and then updating the fork springs with a heavy weight oil to hold the forks from bouncing down the road. The rear shocks are from a goldwing bike from the past and have 2 1/2 inch travel  making pot holes hit hard through the rider and pillions spine. Any 13 inch shock with more travel has got to be money well spent for your kidneys sake.

More details on the goldwing shocks your running ?  Please

[wrenchspinner3]

I've not seen much mention of them here, but I recently installed a set of stock length Progressive 970's with the remote resevoirs on a 2003 FLHT. The original 13" airshocks were bottoming easily on the bad roads around here, and had over 140,000 kms on them. I got the standard rate springs, set up the sag and set the compression adjusters to midway. Very happy so far, but pricey for sure. The front end was switched over to '06 style forks without the cartridge, and modified with air lines for quick easy regular fluid changes. I realize some may regard switching out the left side cartridge a bit of a step backwards, but the maintenace is way easy now. I've never bottomed out or topped out on the 970's, and the handling is now responsive and at the same time comfortable.

[mrmike]

One of the main reasons I installed the Mono tubes was that I had upgraded my front end to a Ness Hot Leg set up and with these lowers there are no oil drain holes like the stock, the improvement is pretty dramatic particularly regarding hard braking and the ensuing brake dive.

Recently I installed a set of Jaybrake six piston differential bore calipers with Lyndall Gold pads another huge difference but I couldn't help but think about how much more pronounced the brake dive would have been if the front suspension was still stock.

I truly believe I would be forced to make some kind of modification to the front suspension had I not already done so.

Mike

[No Cents]

here is a picture of the beefed up "hillbilly shock press"
I made some brackets for both sides to take the movement out of the upright 2x4 and used a 2x10 for the base.

[attach=0]


[attachment removed after 60 days by system]

[1Canuck]

here is a picture of the beefed up "hillbilly shock press"
I made some brackets for both sides to take the movement out of the upright 2x4 and used a 2x10 for the base.

[attach=0]

will you be making a tabletop model? 
great idea, well executed

[No Cents]

 
nope...you have to push down pretty hard on the handle to pump the oil out and put it back in...with it sitting on the floor with both feet on the end...works pretty well. You can use mostly your body weight.
This is my finished "hillbilly press".

[strokerjlk]

here is a picture of the beefed up "hillbilly shock press"
I made some brackets for both sides to take the movement out of the upright 2x4 and used a 2x10 for the base.

[attach=0]

love it 
how many rolls of that super duper elec tape do you go through in a week?

[No Cents]

I used one whole roll of the wide tape on the handle...I didn't want you to get any splinters in those tuning fingers   
you running low on tape?

[strokerjlk]

I used one whole roll of the wide tape on the handle...I didn't want you to get any splinters in those tuning fingers   
you running low on tape?

I probably got enough for a life time. man thats good stuff!

[HighLiner]

I used one whole roll of the wide tape on the handle...I didn't want you to get any splinters in those tuning fingers   
you running low on tape?

I probably got enough for a life time. man thats good stuff!

Seems like better than anything you can buy over the counter at the parts store!

[rking1550]

It's the lowering blocks  Ray.  Dump them!
I tried them with 13" shocks and my tire rubbed the top of the fender.
They aren't good!!

I've not seen much mention of them here, but I recently installed a set of stock length Progressive 970's with the remote resevoirs on a 2003 FLHT. The original 13" airshocks were bottoming easily on the bad roads around here, and had over 140,000 kms on them. I got the standard rate springs, set up the sag and set the compression adjusters to midway. Very happy so far, but pricey for sure. The front end was switched over to '06 style forks without the cartridge, and modified with air lines for quick easy regular fluid changes. I realize some may regard switching out the left side cartridge a bit of a step backwards, but the maintenace is way easy now. I've never bottomed out or topped out on the 970's, and the handling is now responsive and at the same time comfortable.

One of the main reasons I installed the Mono tubes was that I had upgraded my front end to a Ness Hot Leg set up and with these lowers there are no oil drain holes like the stock, the improvement is pretty dramatic particularly regarding hard braking and the ensuing brake dive.

Recently I installed a set of Jaybrake six piston differential bore calipers with Lyndall Gold pads another huge difference but I couldn't help but think about how much more pronounced the brake dive would have been if the front suspension was still stock.

I truly believe I would be forced to make some kind of modification to the front suspension had I not already done so.

Mike

nope...you have to push down pretty hard on the handle to pump the oil out and put it back in...with it sitting on the floor with both feet on the end...works pretty well. You can use mostly your body weight.
This is my finished "hillbilly press".

[strokerjlk]

i love it ray 

[Durwood]

Jim, the beer don't go in the shocks

[No Cents]

 
don't spill that beer!

[strokerjlk]

so you hand me a case of beer ,tell me you but 12 0z in yours whats a guy to think
i had to modify it a little. added a little temp padding.
I found with one knee and one hand ,you can control the flow.
one hand left for beer

[No Cents]

I knew you would customize the Hillbilly Shock press...I guess I should have mounted a beer can holder on the side
 
on my behalf   

[motolocopat]

good article for bagger suspension

hillbilly shock press is great, especially with the beer mods


FWIW I like Howard the Suspension Guru.... just have to take him for what he is and he certainly treats everyone the same!

[Admiral Akbar]

good article for bagger suspension

Where?

Max

[MarcV125]

Initially i had big time issues when i came onto the bagger crowd...Having ridden all Sportbikes before my Street Glide i immediately noticed the suspension issues associated with my bagger..I learned to deal with it for about 10k miles until i said it was enough. I started with Ohlins from Howard at MM in the rear, and then it became apparent how bad the front suspension was also, and went with the Traxxion ak-20 kit about 2k miles after. The two combined really transformed the bike in the corners. The easiest way to describe it is that the bike wants to dip into the corner instead of stand up. Less force to enter the corner and less force to keep her leaned. Of course there is the normal less braking dive and less bottoming but the handling was the biggest change for me.. Now if i only can get rid of the 85-90 mph sweeper wobble  ... Tried true-track...I think the next step is the CCE Triple clamps. ?!?!?

[q1svt]

Initially i had big time issues when i came onto the bagger crowd...Having ridden all Sportbikes before my Street Glide i immediately noticed the suspension issues associated with my bagger..I learned to deal with it for about 10k miles until i said it was enough. I started with Ohlins from Howard at MM in the rear, and then it became apparent how bad the front suspension was also, and went with the Traxxion ak-20 kit about 2k miles after. The two combined really transformed the bike in the corners. The easiest way to describe it is that the bike wants to dip into the corner instead of stand up. Less force to enter the corner and less force to keep her leaned. Of course there is the normal less braking dive and less bottoming but the handling was the biggest change for me.. Now if i only can get rid of the 85-90 mph sweeper wobble  ... Tried true-track...I think the next step is the CCE Triple clamps. ?!?!?

just curious... is this your post [required] so you can get the discount from MM on the shocks?   

[MarcV125]

Initially i had big time issues when i came onto the bagger crowd...Having ridden all Sportbikes before my Street Glide i immediately noticed the suspension issues associated with my bagger..I learned to deal with it for about 10k miles until i said it was enough. I started with Ohlins from Howard at MM in the rear, and then it became apparent how bad the front suspension was also, and went with the Traxxion ak-20 kit about 2k miles after. The two combined really transformed the bike in the corners. The easiest way to describe it is that the bike wants to dip into the corner instead of stand up. Less force to enter the corner and less force to keep her leaned. Of course there is the normal less braking dive and less bottoming but the handling was the biggest change for me.. Now if i only can get rid of the 85-90 mph sweeper wobble  ... Tried true-track...I think the next step is the CCE Triple clamps. ?!?!?

just curious... is this your post [required] so you can get the discount from MM on the shocks?   

Absolutely not...just new to this site.. had them on for about 30 k now already..

[04 SE Deuce]

MarcV125,     Understood your post completely.  Sounds like you've moved to the next weak link...need to eliminate/minimize the hinge.  The Drunken Camel thread is a lot to wade through but might give you something to read/digest.  Welcome to HTT,  Rick

[MarcV125]

MarcV125,     Understood your post completely.  Sounds like you've moved to the next weak link...need to eliminate/minimize the hinge.  The Drunken Camel thread is a lot to wade through but might give you something to read/digest.  Welcome to HTT,  Rick

excellent, thank you for the thread suggestion and welcome 
I knew the "Glide pro" type system would be my next step but after reading that thread and many others, there still seems to be some indecisiveness to whether those systems take care of the wobble ?.. Having good tires,Upgraded suspension and the true track i seem to get the wobble at about 90-95+ .. It used to start at about 80+.  It can only help i guess and worth a try... That will be my next project i guess 

[MarcV125]

Update***...not that i ride like this everyday, but i had one hell of a "oh "Potty mouth"" moment yesterday..
Since i had Scott build me a nice 117 i have been pushing her pretty hard.. I was taking a normal sweeper that i take quite often at about 75-85 with no wobble, well i hit it hard at about 110-115 and holy hell did she start to wobble...It was probably one of the hairiest moments on this bike to date. Luckily it was early with little traffic, but man i couldn't keep her in a lane, Wobbled wobbled wobbled 2 lanes over and finally settled down. Ive been reading countless threads about the topic and of course i check the obvious..air pressures, tires, head bearing, ect, and have already spent too much in suspension (Ohlin's rear, Traxxion ak-20's in front) and rear stabilizer (True-Track)..Im just wondering will it end with something? or am i throwing money away?.. The suspension upgrades i love as an everyday upgrade so i cant bitch there, but the Tru-track, well i would say it increased the speed to where the wobble starts (maybe 10mph) but its definitely still there. Should i try a rear sway bar bushing kit?.. I know its hard to say over the net, but i just want to see what if anything, has cured the wobble for you guys? Or am i just asking too much from my bagger?    Maybe its Buell time for a second bike? 

Thanks
Marc

[klammer76]

Update***...not that i ride like this everyday, but i had one hell of a "oh "Potty mouth"" moment yesterday..
Since i had Scott build me a nice 117 i have been pushing her pretty hard.. I was taking a normal sweeper that i take quite often at about 75-85 with no wobble, well i hit it hard at about 110-115 and holy hell did she start to wobble...It was probably one of the hairiest moments on this bike to date. Luckily it was early with little traffic, but man i couldn't keep her in a lane, Wobbled wobbled wobbled 2 lanes over and finally settled down. Ive been reading countless threads about the topic and of course i check the obvious..air pressures, tires, head bearing, ect, and have already spent too much in suspension (Ohlin's rear, Traxxion ak-20's in front) and rear stabilizer (True-Track)..Im just wondering will it end with something? or am i throwing money away?.. The suspension upgrades i love as an everyday upgrade so i cant bitch there, but the Tru-track, well i would say it increased the speed to where the wobble starts (maybe 10mph) but its definitely still there. Should i try a rear sway bar bushing kit?.. I know its hard to say over the net, but i just want to see what if anything, has cured the wobble for you guys? Or am i just asking too much from my bagger?    Maybe its Buell time for a second bike? 

Thanks
Marc

I think you are headed in the right direction with considering trying the CCE triple trees (just too bad they are so expensive). The Motor Co just did a similar upgrade along with 49mm tubes on the 14's (don't know if they will retro fit or how much $). I have never understood the factory upper triple tree set up with the upper tube only being held by the cap nut.

Klammer

[DOM]

At this point, the 2014 forks don't appear to be that easy to retrofit.  Howard at Motorcycle Metal says he's working on it, but had been working on a new triple tree setup for baggers for years, so it is hard to get a date on a real product.  Either way, it will be VERY expensive to do the retrofit.  My guess would be about 700 for triple trees, upper and lower, I checked the price on the 2014 fork tube and they were 700 stock, then you will need to upgrade the innards of the forks for another 200 to 1200 depending on if you just go with springs or go with a cartridge.  Anyway, I did the CCE, with racetech springs and have not been back on the road with it yet.

[qtrracer]

I'd bet that harder tires will make it wobble less. But you have gone past the lateral load limits of the frame. There is no cure at that point.

[MarcV125]

Update***...not that i ride like this everyday, but i had one hell of a "oh "Potty mouth"" moment yesterday..
Since i had Scott build me a nice 117 i have been pushing her pretty hard.. I was taking a normal sweeper that i take quite often at about 75-85 with no wobble, well i hit it hard at about 110-115 and holy hell did she start to wobble...It was probably one of the hairiest moments on this bike to date. Luckily it was early with little traffic, but man i couldn't keep her in a lane, Wobbled wobbled wobbled 2 lanes over and finally settled down. Ive been reading countless threads about the topic and of course i check the obvious..air pressures, tires, head bearing, ect, and have already spent too much in suspension (Ohlin's rear, Traxxion ak-20's in front) and rear stabilizer (True-Track)..Im just wondering will it end with something? or am i throwing money away?.. The suspension upgrades i love as an everyday upgrade so i cant bitch there, but the Tru-track, well i would say it increased the speed to where the wobble starts (maybe 10mph) but its definitely still there. Should i try a rear sway bar bushing kit?.. I know its hard to say over the net, but i just want to see what if anything, has cured the wobble for you guys? Or am i just asking too much from my bagger?    Maybe its Buell time for a second bike? 

Thanks
Marc

I think you are headed in the right direction with considering trying the CCE triple trees (just too bad they are so expensive). The Motor Co just did a similar upgrade along with 49mm tubes on the 14's (don't know if they will retro fit or how much $). I have never understood the factory upper triple tree set up with the upper tube only being held by the cap nut.

Klammer

And this is my issue...I dont want to spend another 700 in the front end if it "might" cure it, or spend another 400 on a "sta-bo" or similar swingarm kit if it "might" cure it..Has anyone anywhere that pushes the hell out of their bagger, actually get rid of the wobble after fix after fix of "supposible" cures?  That is what im wondering...

I'd bet that harder tires will make it wobble less. But you have gone past the lateral load limits of the frame. There is no cure at that point.

And this is exactly what im thinking...is it just not going to happen?...I know these bikes are not meant for 110 mph sweepers so is it just something that cannot be fixed?..

[qtrracer]

A solid mounted swingarm and perimeter frame will cure it

[MarcV125]

A solid mounted swingarm and perimeter frame will cure it

i laughed at this comment but really think this is what needs to be addressed in order to eliminate it.. The frame change helped big time in 09 but i think they need to do it again...

[Admiral Akbar]

A solid mounted swingarm and perimeter frame will cure it

i laughed at this comment but really think this is what needs to be addressed in order to eliminate it.. The frame change helped big time in 09 but i think they need to do it again...

It's not the frame that's an issue.. Wasn't then they upgraded the frame in 09..

Max.

[MarcV125]

A solid mounted swingarm and perimeter frame will cure it

i laughed at this comment but really think this is what needs to be addressed in order to eliminate it.. The frame change helped big time in 09 but i think they need to do it again...

It's not the frame that's an issue.. Wasn't then they upgraded the frame in 09..

Max.

I still wonder if it is part of the problem though max..from all of the products that are out there ..it seems from what I read anyways, that there is no difinitive answer if anything actually cures it..sure things may stiffen the ride or seem to track better bit does anything cure the wobble??..I am by no means an engineer or have any proof why I think this but it just seems to make sense..I just haven't read anything that someone has tried any or all of these "fixes" that it has cured it?
Marc 

[HogBag]

My progressive stabilizer helped  stop the hinge around 75 mph but the next weak link was the triple trees flexing around 95 mph. We can spend all the money known to man on these baggers but where only putting lip stick on a hog. Any good rider on a sports will come under us on any corner.

[motolocopat]

I think that the MOCO mostly answered the question with the major upgrade to the front-end addressing both the diameter of the forks and the mounting of them. You can't have a stable handling motorcycle when you effectively build a hinge into the front suspension..
By most accounts I have read the 2014's are greatly improved and IMO we are now just a good set of internals to the forks.... which is relatively simple and inexpensive. This should be the next thing that the MOCO does.... along with a stock 113" motor

[Admiral Akbar]

A solid mounted swingarm and perimeter frame will cure it

i laughed at this comment but really think this is what needs to be addressed in order to eliminate it.. The frame change helped big time in 09 but i think they need to do it again...

It's not the frame that's an issue.. Wasn't then they upgraded the frame in 09..

Max.

I still wonder if it is part of the problem though max..from all of the products that are out there ..it seems from what I read anyways, that there is no difinitive answer if anything actually cures it..sure things may stiffen the ride or seem to track better bit does anything cure the wobble??..I am by no means an engineer or have any proof why I think this but it just seems to make sense..I just haven't read anything that someone has tried any or all of these "fixes" that it has cured it?
Marc

HD cured most of the problem when they came out with the road glide (There was probably an fXR framed version also).. One of the major issues is that the glides have is mounting the fairing to the forks.. Any instability is only magnified.. Moving the fairing to the frame make a big difference in the stability of the whole bike.. Look at the other touring bikes. Especially the sport touring bikes.  None of the serious performance touring bikes have fork mounded fairings. Also all don't have rubber mounted drive trains..

A lot of the solutions are simple bolt on that correct looseness in  the manufacturing tolerances and help cover up worn parts.. I don't think that the newer forks will help much as far as stability goes.. They will probably make the steering feel a little firmer but they are only adding weight to something that is too heavy to start.. It would be interesting to see what the moment of inertia is on the new front end over the old..

I think that when they changed tire profiles in 09 and added 1/2 inch of trail to the front end, they did make an improvement in stability. The newer forked bike (2014) have another 10th inch trail and 1/2 inch wheel base.. This will probably help some more with stability and convince some they need to upgrade.. 

As far as fixing certain conditions on the current bikes I think that the most important things are alignment and good tires with proper inflation. I think that the right tire will make a big difference and it may not be then OEM one..  You mentioned that the wobble came in at about 120 and your bike looks to have a Hillside 117 in it.. There probably ain't a simple fix to make things better.. I'd try going to a lower profile rear tire like a 180x55-18, but can't guarantee that it would help all that much.. I do believe that rear tire contour / sidewall stiffness has a lot to do which high speed stability.


Max

[MarcV125]

A solid mounted swingarm and perimeter frame will cure it

i laughed at this comment but really think this is what needs to be addressed in order to eliminate it.. The frame change helped big time in 09 but i think they need to do it again...

It's not the frame that's an issue.. Wasn't then they upgraded the frame in 09..

Max.

I still wonder if it is part of the problem though max..from all of the products that are out there ..it seems from what I read anyways, that there is no difinitive answer if anything actually cures it..sure things may stiffen the ride or seem to track better bit does anything cure the wobble??..I am by no means an engineer or have any proof why I think this but it just seems to make sense..I just haven't read anything that someone has tried any or all of these "fixes" that it has cured it?
Marc

HD cured most of the problem when they came out with the road glide (There was probably an fXR framed version also).. One of the major issues is that the glides have is mounting the fairing to the forks.. Any instability is only magnified.. Moving the fairing to the frame make a big difference in the stability of the whole bike.. Look at the other touring bikes. Especially the sport touring bikes.  None of the serious performance touring bikes have fork mounded fairings. Also all don't have rubber mounted drive trains..

A lot of the solutions are simple bolt on that correct looseness in  the manufacturing tolerances and help cover up worn parts.. I don't think that the newer forks will help much as far as stability goes.. They will probably make the steering feel a little firmer but they are only adding weight to something that is too heavy to start.. It would be interesting to see what the moment of inertia is on the new front end over the old..

I think that when they changed tire profiles in 09 and added 1/2 inch of trail to the front end, they did make an improvement in stability. The newer forked bike (2014) have another 10th inch trail and 1/2 inch wheel base.. This will probably help some more with stability and convince some they need to upgrade.. 

As far as fixing certain conditions on the current bikes I think that the most important things are alignment and good tires with proper inflation. I think that the right tire will make a big difference and it may not be then OEM one..  You mentioned that the wobble came in at about 120 and your bike looks to have a Hillside 117 in it.. There probably ain't a simple fix to make things better.. I'd try going to a lower profile rear tire like a 180x55-18, but can't guarantee that it would help all that much.. I do believe that rear tire contour / sidewall stiffness has a lot to do which high speed stability.


Max

All valid points..and thats what I am trying to get at..I think I could do the upper triple clamp and the rear bushings and most likely still have the wobble...at normal speeds 70-85 freeway riding she is fine which wasn't before the true track and the suspension upgrades..so I believe that doing these various upgrades improve stability it will still get to point where she is going to wobble..
Max before the 117 I couldnt reach 115 120...now that I have reached those speeds, I know where the tap out point is with her again..
I have a 185-55-18 currently on there now and did seem to improve when I had it installed ..but again more as far as stability not nessessarily helping with the wobble...
We may never know

[Deye76]

MarkV, sometimes it's something overlooked like a bad wheel bearing, or for guys with factory damper tubes , one side sticks a bit, maybe from being strapped down to aggressively on a dyno or on a trailer. These will cause a scary wobble at freeway speeds. Happened to me, after chasing the problem found a bad wheel bearing, replaced it and went right back to the sweeper that soiled my shorts, problem solved.

Edit: Have a Roadglide, could be more noticable on a Batwing.

[rageglide]

MarkV, sometimes it's something overlooked like a bad wheel bearing, or for guys with factory damper tubes , one side sticks a bit, maybe from being strapped down to aggressively on a dyno or on a trailer. These will cause a scary wobble at freeway speeds. Happened to me, after chasing the problem found a bad wheel bearing, replaced it and went right back to the sweeper that soiled my shorts, problem solved.

I had an Avon Venom rear tire that was rock solid when new, transformed my 2005 RG.   Once I had put about 5k miles on it the bike got spooky on rain grooves and downright scary on sweepers.   Tire looked fine, I changed just about everything I could think of, adjusted neck, checked alignment, installed glide-pro stuff... helped a little...   Finally pulled the tire, which did NOT look squared off and voila...  The tire had a very subtle wide profile and nothing like a square dunlop.   oh well lesson learned

[Admiral Akbar]

All valid points..and thats what I am trying to get at..I think I could do the upper triple clamp and the rear bushings and most likely still have the wobble...at normal speeds 70-85 freeway riding she is fine which wasn't before the true track and the suspension upgrades..so I believe that doing these various upgrades improve stability it will still get to point where she is going to wobble..
Max before the 117 I couldnt reach 115 120...now that I have reached those speeds, I know where the tap out point is with her again..
I have a 185-55-18 currently on there now and did seem to improve when I had it installed ..but again more as far as stability not nessessarily helping with the wobble...
We may never know

Like I mentioned a frame mounted fairing would be better.. At 120 the forces against the batwing are pretty high.. It wouldn't surprise me if the force  starts the oscillation.. Don't know if you've played with windshields on the fairing.. Klockwerks looks to make some are are supposed to help. Those guys did some LSR stuff with baggers but they were smart and used the road-glide..  Not sure how well their stuff works on a batwing..

Max

[MarcV125]

MarkV, sometimes it's something overlooked like a bad wheel bearing, or for guys with factory damper tubes , one side sticks a bit, maybe from being strapped down to aggressively on a dyno or on a trailer. These will cause a scary wobble at freeway speeds. Happened to me, after chasing the problem found a bad wheel bearing, replaced it and went right back to the sweeper that soiled my shorts, problem solved.

Edit: Have a Roadglide, could be more noticable on a Batwing.

this is not a straight line wobble, (not sure if thats what your referring too) but a long sweeping corner wobble, everywhere else the bike is stable.. I have checked wheel bearings, head bearings, played with pressures/tires ect.. I really think it either boils down to the frame not being able to handle the loads or like Max have said, the actual batwing design which makes alot of sense.

MarkV, sometimes it's something overlooked like a bad wheel bearing, or for guys with factory damper tubes , one side sticks a bit, maybe from being strapped down to aggressively on a dyno or on a trailer. These will cause a scary wobble at freeway speeds. Happened to me, after chasing the problem found a bad wheel bearing, replaced it and went right back to the sweeper that soiled my shorts, problem solved.

I had an Avon Venom rear tire that was rock solid when new, transformed my 2005 RG.   Once I had put about 5k miles on it the bike got spooky on rain grooves and downright scary on sweepers.   Tire looked fine, I changed just about everything I could think of, adjusted neck, checked alignment, installed glide-pro stuff... helped a little...   Finally pulled the tire, which did NOT look squared off and voila...  The tire had a very subtle wide profile and nothing like a square dunlop.   oh well lesson learned

At one point i thought it was a tire issue,,When i put a new tire on, it helped but was still there.. Been there done that lol

All valid points..and thats what I am trying to get at..I think I could do the upper triple clamp and the rear bushings and most likely still have the wobble...at normal speeds 70-85 freeway riding she is fine which wasn't before the true track and the suspension upgrades..so I believe that doing these various upgrades improve stability it will still get to point where she is going to wobble..
Max before the 117 I couldnt reach 115 120...now that I have reached those speeds, I know where the tap out point is with her again..
I have a 185-55-18 currently on there now and did seem to improve when I had it installed ..but again more as far as stability not nessessarily helping with the wobble...
We may never know

Like I mentioned a frame mounted fairing would be better.. At 120 the forces against the batwing are pretty high.. It wouldn't surprise me if the force  starts the oscillation.. Don't know if you've played with windshields on the fairing.. Klockwerks looks to make some are are supposed to help. Those guys did some LSR stuff with baggers but they were smart and used the road-glide..  Not sure how well their stuff works on a batwing..

Max

Max that makes total sense..i could imagine at higher speeds, you push the handlebars whichever way, it upsets the aeros on the batwing and starts the wobble.. I have honestly never thought about that..
I have had multiple shields, but not a klockwerks. I may give it a shot if i could pick one up used just to try it..

[boooby1744]

Maybe the problem is that you can't ride an 875lb bagger like it's a 550lb sport bike..........

[No Cents]

Maybe the problem is that you can't ride an 875lb bagger like it's a 550lb sport bike..........

bingo...give that man a cigar!

[MarcV125]

Maybe the problem is that you can't ride an 875lb bagger like it's a 550lb sport bike..........

  but it sure is fun to try ...!!

[q1svt]

Like I mentioned a frame mounted fairing would be better.. At 120 the forces against the batwing are pretty high.. It wouldn't surprise me if the force  starts the oscillation.. Don't know if you've played with windshields on the fairing.. Klockwerks looks to make some are are supposed to help. Those guys did some LSR stuff with baggers but they were smart and used the road-glide..  Not sure how well their stuff works on a batwing..

Max

Great point... I've wondered if the fairing was somehow not aligned with the forks causing a disturbance in the force [control battle between the tires and fairing].  The pre-09 bikes have been known for cracking the braces.

Maybe the problem is that you can't ride an 875lb bagger like it's a 550lb sport bike..........

bingo...give that man a cigar!

+2 

[04 SE Deuce]

Maybe the problem is that you can't ride an 875lb bagger like it's a 550lb sport bike..........

  but it sure is fun to try ...!!

Marc,  You are probably riding that thing harder than <1% of bagger jockeys...so you aren't going to get many people jumping in here with a sure solution for high speed swagger.  I admire your courage and concur with the enjoyment of "getting it all."  Easy/fun to run near the limits on these pigs.  Easy to go fast on a sport bike but finding the limits is almost a track day activity...and still difficult. 

It would be nice if someone could shove a bagger around well enough to test/sort the products that are available so that a clear solution (cure for symptom) was known.  Making these bikes more forgiving near the limit would make them safer all around.  If these bikes were more staple and handled better it would instill rider confidence and result in more guys being able/willing to ride more spirited/aggressive at times instead of saying "that's not what they're for."  If I couldn't access the limits of a heavy cruiser with a modest lean angle without a major handling flaw,  I'd be getting a different type of bike...need more options than slow.  Rick

[hbkeith]

Maybe the problem is that you can't ride an 875lb bagger like it's a 550lb sport bike..........

  but it sure is fun to try ...!!

Marc,  You are probably riding that thing harder than <1% of bagger jockeys...so you aren't going to get many people jumping in here with a sure solution for high speed swagger.  I admire your courage and concur with the enjoyment of "getting it all."  Easy/fun to run near the limits on these pigs.  Easy to go fast on a sport bike but finding the limits is almost a track day activity...and still difficult. 

It would be nice if someone could shove a bagger around well enough to test/sort the products that are available so that a clear solution (cure for symptom) was known.  Making these bikes more forgiving near the limit would make them safer all around.  If these bikes were more staple and handled better it would instill rider confidence and result in more guys being able/willing to ride more spirited/aggressive at times instead of saying "that's not what they're for."  If I couldn't access the limits of a heavy cruiser with a modest lean angle without a major handling flaw,  I'd be getting a different type of bike...need more options than slow.  Rick

nice 

[frankieb]

If you think the front end is causing the wobble, try a stearing dampner(sp?)

[Admiral Akbar]

[Snip]
this is not a straight line wobble, (not sure if thats what your referring too) but a long sweeping corner wobble, everywhere else the bike is stable.. I have checked wheel bearings, head bearings, played with pressures/tires ect.. I really think it either boils down to the frame not being able to handle the loads or like Max have said, the actual batwing design which makes alot of sense.
[snip]

Max that makes total sense..i could imagine at higher speeds, you push the handlebars whichever way, it upsets the aeros on the batwing and starts the wobble.. I have honestly never thought about that..
I have had multiple shields, but not a klockwerks. I may give it a shot if i could pick one up used just to try it..

Yeah, I wouldn't guarantee it's the fix..

If you think the front end is causing the wobble, try a steering damper(sp?)

  This is probably good idea tho not sure how much it will help.. I've not had good luck with them, but in the cases where I used them the wobble was probably somewhere else..   Bikes did not have fairings..

I think it's funny that many think going this fast is ridiculous but still stuff a 120 motor in the bike anyway.. 

Another thing that can cause wobbles on a batwing, is the handlebars.. If the pull back a bit the rider can induce a wobble..

Max

[06roadglide]

[Snip]
this is not a straight line wobble, (not sure if thats what your referring too) but a long sweeping corner wobble, everywhere else the bike is stable.. I have checked wheel bearings, head bearings, played with pressures/tires ect.. I really think it either boils down to the frame not being able to handle the loads or like Max have said, the actual batwing design which makes alot of sense.
[snip]

Max that makes total sense..i could imagine at higher speeds, you push the handlebars whichever way, it upsets the aeros on the batwing and starts the wobble.. I have honestly never thought about that..
I have had multiple shields, but not a klockwerks. I may give it a shot if i could pick one up used just to try it..

Yeah, I wouldn't guarantee it's the fix..

If you think the front end is causing the wobble, try a steering damper(sp?)

  This is probably good idea tho not sure how much it will help.. I've not had good luck with them, but in the cases where I used them the wobble was probably somewhere else..   Bikes did not have fairings..

I think it's funny that many think going this fast is ridiculous but still stuff a 120 motor in the bike anyway.. 

Another thing that can cause wobbles on a batwing, is the handlebars.. If the pull back a bit the rider can induce a wobble..

Max 

I agree with you Max.  I think a lot of the wobble is induced by the rider.  Many people tense up and try to muscle one of these pigs through a high speed turn by pulling or twisting on the bars.

Another thing I think is the reverse triple tree.  Great for slow speed, not so good for hi speed.  Along with the many other reasons,  the front of these bikes are a really old design.  Invert the forks to give it more stability (rigidity) at the top, mount the wheel in a LARGER hollow tube axle and clamp it at bottom (no slide through axles).

[rageglide]

My '12 RoadGlide went from very solid at 80-85 on my test track, to crazy unstable at a lower speed just by swapping the rear shocks.  The new shocks were set up too soft and the resulting porpoising had the bars swinging pretty good and me going entirely tooo straight.   No crash, but a good pucker moment.   I've adjusted the shocks to the max preload and the result is much better, but it's still nowhere as solid as it was with those "crappy" air shocks... A case where the dumptruck rear suspension was actually better.

[Admiral Akbar]

Another thing I think is the reverse triple tree.  Great for slow speed, not so good for hi speed.  Along with the many other reasons,  the front of these bikes are a really old design.  Invert the forks to give it more stability (rigidity) at the top, mount the wheel in a LARGER hollow tube axle and clamp it at bottom (no slide through axles).

Well,

While I think that the reversed tree has a bit to do with it.. I don't agree with the need to stiffen the forks up to stop the wobble.. The would make the bike steer more precisely but not help dance.. The fact that you agree with rider induced wobble actually show that the forks don't need to be that stiff.. The best way to reduce rider induced wobble is to lean forward and to increase bend in the allows then use less pressure on the bars..  Bike wobble or dancing will be reduced considerably.. Stiffer forks will give more precise steering, especially over rough stuff but don't do much for the dance.

Max

[04 SE Deuce]

I'm in sync with pretty much all of Max's thoughts.  I know that my Deuce will faintly nod it's head briefly a couple times when I hustle it through a bumpy corner with a loaded handlebar bag...never does it without the bag. 

I could be wrong but I don't think it's the forks despite the queer top crown design.  One time on the Deuce I forgot to tighten the lower tree pinch bolt on one side,  had a clunk on slow speed ripple bumps and when applying the brake but no handling issues.

These things are heavy and soft sprung with hinges designed in. IMO the geometry is focused more on maneuverability than stability,  parade speed not high speed.  Everything plays together,  getting the thing lined up,  the hinges snubbed up and the suspension firmed up along with compatible tires should make them livable.  After everything is addressed/right I think a quality adjustable steering stabilizer would help quell those "wow Nellie" moments,   not over-tightening the neck bearings.  Rick

[MarcV125]

Maybe the problem is that you can't ride an 875lb bagger like it's a 550lb sport bike..........

  but it sure is fun to try ...!!

Marc,  You are probably riding that thing harder than <1% of bagger jockeys...so you aren't going to get many people jumping in here with a sure solution for high speed swagger.  I admire your courage and concur with the enjoyment of "getting it all."  Easy/fun to run near the limits on these pigs.  Easy to go fast on a sport bike but finding the limits is almost a track day activity...and still difficult. 

It would be nice if someone could shove a bagger around well enough to test/sort the products that are available so that a clear solution (cure for symptom) was known.  Making these bikes more forgiving near the limit would make them safer all around.  If these bikes were more staple and handled better it would instill rider confidence and result in more guys being able/willing to ride more spirited/aggressive at times instead of saying "that's not what they're for."  If I couldn't access the limits of a heavy cruiser with a modest lean angle without a major handling flaw,  I'd be getting a different type of bike...need more options than slow.  Rick

Thanks Rick..That's all im trying to get at...I love to fling her around and really ride her..Coming off sportbikes its still in my blood.

[Snip]
this is not a straight line wobble, (not sure if thats what your referring too) but a long sweeping corner wobble, everywhere else the bike is stable.. I have checked wheel bearings, head bearings, played with pressures/tires ect.. I really think it either boils down to the frame not being able to handle the loads or like Max have said, the actual batwing design which makes alot of sense.
[snip]

Max that makes total sense..i could imagine at higher speeds, you push the handlebars whichever way, it upsets the aeros on the batwing and starts the wobble.. I have honestly never thought about that..
I have had multiple shields, but not a klockwerks. I may give it a shot if i could pick one up used just to try it..

Yeah, I wouldn't guarantee it's the fix..

If you think the front end is causing the wobble, try a steering damper(sp?)

  This is probably good idea tho not sure how much it will help.. I've not had good luck with them, but in the cases where I used them the wobble was probably somewhere else..   Bikes did not have fairings..

I think it's funny that many think going this fast is ridiculous but still stuff a 120 motor in the bike anyway.. 

Another thing that can cause wobbles on a batwing, is the handlebars.. If the pull back a bit the rider can induce a wobble..

Max

A steering damper has most certainly crossed my mind also.. The only one i have really found that seems to be a "sportbike like damper" is actually the tri-glide damper which is made by Ohlins.. may give that a shot down the road..

Another thing I think is the reverse triple tree.  Great for slow speed, not so good for hi speed.  Along with the many other reasons,  the front of these bikes are a really old design.  Invert the forks to give it more stability (rigidity) at the top, mount the wheel in a LARGER hollow tube axle and clamp it at bottom (no slide through axles).

Well,

While I think that the reversed tree has a bit to do with it.. I don't agree with the need to stiffen the forks up to stop the wobble.. The would make the bike steer more precisely but not help dance.. The fact that you agree with rider induced wobble actually show that the forks don't need to be that stiff.. The best way to reduce rider induced wobble is to lean forward and to increase bend in the allows then use less pressure on the bars..  Bike wobble or dancing will be reduced considerably.. Stiffer forks will give more precise steering, especially over rough stuff but don't do much for the dance.

Max

Funny you say this..as soon as the wobble started i immediately "squared off" my posture and leaned forward a bit and lessened my grip on the bars .. More instinct than anything i believe.

[FlaHeatWave]

Now if i only can get rid of the 85-90 mph sweeper wobble  ... Tried true-track...I think the next step is the CCE Triple clamps. ?!?!?
[/quote]
By the looks of your profile, you have a '10?
Before you go to the triple clamps, try cranking the preload of the steering head bearings past the 'swing test' specs. Everybody that I know (including me ~ on my '09 SERG) that has increased the preload, has been surprised that this has taken the wobble out of their bikes. I think that Harley has changed their 'swing' specs in the more recent years. It's a whole lot cheaper than triple clamps...

I put the Glide Pro bushings and the Michelin Commander IIs on the '05 SEEG ('put the Glide Pros on the '09 also, but haven't had a chance to ride the '09 since) and the difference is amazing! All hint of rear steer on the older frame is gone, the bike handles like it's on rails, and is much more nimble than the newer frames. No more "new frame envy" with Glide Pro!!! 
A close friend of mine that averages >30k / yr on his last 3 bikes, tried the Glide Pros on his '12 Skunk (progressives f/r) last year, and is still raving about the Glide Pros, he had True Tracks on his 2 prior bikes ('06 SE Ultra, '10 Limited Progressives f/r on both) and swears that the Glide Pros are a much better solution than the True Tracks. 

[Admiral Akbar]

Now if i only can get rid of the 85-90 mph sweeper wobble  ... Tried true-track...I think the next step is the CCE Triple clamps. ?!?!?

By the looks of your profile, you have a '10?
Before you go to the triple clamps, try cranking the preload of the steering head bearings past the 'swing test' specs. Everybody that I know (including me ~ on my '09 SERG) that has increased the preload, has been surprised that this has taken the wobble out of their bikes. I think that Harley has changed their 'swing' specs in the more recent years. It's a whole lot cheaper than triple clamps...

I put the Glide Pro bushings and the Michelin Commander IIs on the '05 SEEG ('put the Glide Pros on the '09 also, but haven't had a chance to ride the '09 since) and the difference is amazing! All hint of rear steer on the older frame is gone, the bike handles like it's on rails, and is much more nimble than the newer frames. No more "new frame envy" with Glide Pro!!! 
A close friend of mine that averages >30k / yr on his last 3 bikes, tried the Glide Pros on his '12 Skunk (progressives f/r) last year, and is still raving about the Glide Pros, he had True Tracks on his 2 prior bikes ('06 SE Ultra, '10 Limited Progressives f/r on both) and swears that the Glide Pros are a much better solution than the True Tracks.

Funny,

I tired glide pros and they weren't much different than shimming the stock bushings.. Shims were about $300 cheaper ..

Max

[frankieb]

[/quote]

A steering damper has most certainly crossed my mind also.. The only one i have really found that seems to be a "sportbike like damper" is actually the tri-glide damper which is made by Ohlins.. may give that a shot down the road..

[/quote]
If the Harley damper isn't adjustable then I would just buy the mounts, then look for an adjustable damper.

[rageglide]

Funny,

I tired glide pros and they weren't much different than shimming the stock bushings.. Shims were about $300 cheaper ..

Max

I installed glide pros also and didn't notice a difference.  I had true track, glide pro bushings. and fixed my wobble problems with a new tire...  As I recall Max you also noted new OEM bushings helped to sober the drunken camel.

[04 SE Deuce]

Marc, 
        The Ohlins steering damper you pictured should have an adjustment knob on the end you can't see.  I replaced the non-adjustable junker that came on my 916 with an Ohlins that looks similar other than having a different sliding clamp mount.  The stock damper on the Duc rubbed the tank and had a problem controlling a little handlebar flutter induced by carrying the front light/skimming on corner exit after hitting a ripple bump...Ohlins damper on a fairly low setting cured it completely.   Might be a little pricey but I'm bet'n it would help when the bars start wag'n.    Rick

[Admiral Akbar]

I installed glide pros also and didn't notice a difference.  I had true track, glide pro bushings. and fixed my wobble problems with a new tire...  As I recall Max you also noted new OEM bushings helped to sober the drunken camel.

That works also..

Max

[MarcV125]

Marc, 
        The Ohlins steering damper you pictured should have an adjustment knob on the end you can't see.  I replaced the non-adjustable junker that came on my 916 with an Ohlins that looks similar other than having a different sliding clamp mount.  The stock damper on the Duc rubbed the tank and had a problem controlling a little handlebar flutter induced by carrying the front light/skimming on corner exit after hitting a ripple bump...Ohlins damper on a fairly low setting cured it completely.   Might be a little pricey but I'm bet'n it would help when the bars start wag'n.    Rick

Yes there is..opposite side of the damper is a gold knob for adjust-ability. I had dampers on all my sportbikes as well, and really helped control those power wheelie-tank slapper moments. Will it help on the Harley?..i guess it couldn't hurt..

Max when you replaced your rear bushings and shimmed them, what mileage were you at that point on the bike.?

Marc

[Admiral Akbar]

Marc, 
        The Ohlins steering damper you pictured should have an adjustment knob on the end you can't see.  I replaced the non-adjustable junker that came on my 916 with an Ohlins that looks similar other than having a different sliding clamp mount.  The stock damper on the Duc rubbed the tank and had a problem controlling a little handlebar flutter induced by carrying the front light/skimming on corner exit after hitting a ripple bump...Ohlins damper on a fairly low setting cured it completely.   Might be a little pricey but I'm bet'n it would help when the bars start wag'n.    Rick

Yes there is..opposite side of the damper is a gold knob for adjust-ability. I had dampers on all my sportbikes as well, and really helped control those power wheelie-tank slapper moments. Will it help on the Harley?..i guess it couldn't hurt..

I've not had much luck with dampers stopping the dance but it still may be worth a try.

Max when you replaced your rear bushings and shimmed them, what mileage were you at that point on the bike.?

Marc

Originally I shimmed the rubbers at about 15K.. Replaced them at 52K.  The new ones were a bit thicker then the old.. Not sure if the old compressed or the new are thicker to start.. I suspect a little of both..  The main idea of the drunken camel thread was to identify looseness in manufacturing tolerances and correct them. I was trying to find out why some bike wobbled and others didn't.. I would say looseness, tire condition/ selection, steering bearing adjustment and alignment cover 98% of the issues.. The rest show up when you really push the bike.

Max


Max

[04 SE Deuce]

Yeah,  With the steering damper I was thinking more about keeping Marc on the piggy than making the piggy behave...although it should help some.  Treating the symptom instead of curing it.  These things are designed for pig pen speed not horse track.  Rick

[MarcV125]

Marc, 
        The Ohlins steering damper you pictured should have an adjustment knob on the end you can't see.  I replaced the non-adjustable junker that came on my 916 with an Ohlins that looks similar other than having a different sliding clamp mount.  The stock damper on the Duc rubbed the tank and had a problem controlling a little handlebar flutter induced by carrying the front light/skimming on corner exit after hitting a ripple bump...Ohlins damper on a fairly low setting cured it completely.   Might be a little pricey but I'm bet'n it would help when the bars start wag'n.    Rick

Yes there is..opposite side of the damper is a gold knob for adjust-ability. I had dampers on all my sportbikes as well, and really helped control those power wheelie-tank slapper moments. Will it help on the Harley?..i guess it couldn't hurt..

I've not had much luck with dampers stopping the dance but it still may be worth a try.

Max when you replaced your rear bushings and shimmed them, what mileage were you at that point on the bike.?

Marc

Originally I shimmed the rubbers at about 15K.. Replaced them at 52K.  The new ones were a bit thicker then the old.. Not sure if the old compressed or the new are thicker to start.. I suspect a little of both..  The main idea of the drunken camel thread was to identify looseness in manufacturing tolerances and correct them. I was trying to find out why some bike wobbled and others didn't.. I would say looseness, tire condition/ selection, steering bearing adjustment and alignment cover 98% of the issues.. The rest show up when you really push the bike.

Max


Max

Originally I shimmed the rubbers at about 15K.. Replaced them at 52K.  The new ones were a bit thicker then the old.. Not sure if the old compressed or the new are thicker to start.. I suspect a little of both..  The main idea of the drunken camel thread was to identify looseness in manufacturing tolerances and correct them. I was trying to find out why some bike wobbled and others didn't.. I would say looseness, tire condition/ selection, steering bearing adjustment and alignment cover 98% of the issues.. The rest show up when you really push the bike.

Max

totally agree..I think i am just at the point of pushing her too hard..have 34k hard miles on her now so when im bored i might at well replace those rear bushings with OEM bushings to be safe..Max appreciate your info..

Yeah,  With the steering damper I was thinking more about keeping Marc on the piggy than making the piggy behave...although it should help some.  Treating the symptom instead of curing it.  These things are designed for pig pen speed not horse track.  Rick

Totally with you on this Rick..Couldnt have said it better

[hbkeith]

I copied the Hillbilly shock press , put monotubes in front and 10 weight in rear shocks ,definant improvement 

[No Cents]

I copied the Hillbilly shock press , put monotubes in front and 10 weight in rear shocks ,definant improvement 

[strokerjlk]

I copied the Hillbilly shock press , put monotubes in front and 10 weight in rear shocks ,definant improvement