How to use a SE pro Super Tuner for IDIOTS

[1Canuck]

Lambda cals don't use CLB, so when spotting differences you need to look at that. 14.6 with a higher-whatever CLB is kinda saying the same thing as 14.3 in lambda-speak. And there can be a difference in what AFR number is there for a given lambda if there's different numbers for stoic value of the fuel.

again, forget the 96 and just deal with the 009 & 044 cals for the 103.3 only. why is the VE 20% apart when everything else is the same. yes I get the lambda v. CLB

[1Canuck]

Being where you live your bike is only going to see 85-90 KPA  WOT  on AVG Now on a good air day. You will have to shift the afr to the left some and timing back some as well


Also the cal you are using is a MAP based cal not a TPS cal as your bike is a 2009.  The 18 MM vs the 12MM have two different out put codes from what I have read.... so the map may load you will have some off set///  I  have seen this happen and the tune is incorrect after guys have tried to smart tune the bike. But that was a while ago.  Myself if you are using smart tune load the correct base cal and then go from there, open loop tune would will work fine if you are using another data gathering system..

On the underlined I agree 100%. but the OP loaded a cal from the 2010-13 touring into a 09 touring. on close look the ECM is the same, so the 2010 cal is one of the right maps to load or the ECM would not have accepted it.
may be wrong but I think the 09 has the 12mm O2 sensors

[HighLiner]

Glad your getting a lot of help here.  I asked once on another board about buying the software just to play with the timing a little and was shut down, told I would cause major damage seeing how I've never tuned before.  This is a great place for info!  Good Luck.

[hrdtail78]

Being where you live your bike is only going to see 85-90 KPA  WOT  on AVG Now on a good air day. You will have to shift the afr to the left some and timing back some as well


Also the cal you are using is a MAP based cal not a TPS cal as your bike is a 2009.  The 18 MM vs the 12MM have two different out put codes from what I have read.... so the map may load you will have some off set///  I  have seen this happen and the tune is incorrect after guys have tried to smart tune the bike. But that was a while ago.  Myself if you are using smart tune load the correct base cal and then go from there, open loop tune would will work fine if you are using another data gathering system..

On the underlined I agree 100%. but the OP loaded a cal from the 2010-13 touring into a 09 touring. on close look the ECM is the same, so the 2010 cal is one of the right maps to load or the ECM would not have accepted it.
may be wrong but I think the 09 has the 12mm O2 sensors

09's have 18mm sensors.  You can load it with a SE tuner.  Other tuners don't let you do this, and IIRC you do get a warning with the SE stuff.  I brought up EGR because other tuners do allow access to these.  Some have seen the changes these tables make to the VE tables.  There are other ones we don't see.  In order to really explain the 20 difference.  We would have to see all the tables to really see what is going on.  Remember that these are a generic starter map's.  For OE or performance heads.  Flow of the heads are also going to dictate airflow also.

[1Canuck]

Then shall we tell BUBBIE to unload the 2010 cal and load a 2009 cal and tune from there?

[HD/Wrench]

I loaded a 10 cal into a 07 bike it worked. I did not think it would FBW vs non map vs TPS however if you are ont he dyno or have other data tools to gather and use to tune it does work.

He is trying to smart tune his bike with no other help. It will be a stretch to get it running right if at all.   I have sent Bubbie a 103 / 255 map with a close ex with the correct cal for him to load. He stated it runs better thus far and will ride it and then start to smart tune. He is a Mac computer guy so he is dealing with that learning curve and is not a tuner so add that on as well.. He needs a simple fix that he can ride , gather data, reload and get it a better AFR curve. The map that he had did not work to smart tune from what he said.   As for the changes in maps  .. who knows and why does it matter . Not like the starting maps really work well anways and who the heck knows what changes where made in tables that we cannot see. 

[hrdtail78]

Then shall we tell BUBBIE to unload the 2010 cal and load a 2009 cal and tune from there?

YES.

[strokerjlk]

Then shall we tell BUBBIE to unload the 2010 cal and load a 2009 cal and tune from there?

Not if he takes it to open loop like I mentioned .
I have a few 09's running around with 009 cals , in open loop .
They run smooth as silk . One of them I have tuned 4 times with diff cams heads pipes . Etc etc.
I put it in closed loop and rode the bike 20-25 miles . Seemed ok ,it didn't unravel in that amount of time . But I sent it on its way in open loop .
Still runs great . You can't turn off the 02 heaters with a sepst is the only problem . So don't run closed loop .

[BUBBIE]

the 96 ci has a smaller injector constant.

all three are 4.35 injectors. but never mind the 96, why is there 20 difference in the VE table between the 009 & 044 cals for the same 103 engine.
Sorry Bubbie, you chose to use a 2010, 009 cal instead of the 205 cal for your 2009 bike and I have high jacked your thread trying to understand why it works.

I HAVE NEVER A Problem with ANY others asking and Posting... My THREADS are always OPEN for all use...

signed....BUBBIE

[hdmanillac]

 

Interesting thread for an idiot like me !

[BUBBIE]

I have the luck of Gmr Steve that offered his help. Giving me a late dyno tune that is the correct one for my bike.
He dyno'ed the same 103 motor with the Air and 255cams and basic stock other than exhaust is different.

It really solved the small amount of erratic Idle and warm-up... Now Just great there.

The run-ability of the bike IS best it has been using the SE pro...

I had it running good before using the Dobeck Fueler at 103 so I know what to expect for good.. NOT Best but Good... and now with the tunable SE Pro , a lot more choices...

Steve the leaning you did for the Faint burble helped. VERY Livable now....It was so Little of an amount to start with and like you said "came on after the injectors reopened and right at almost lugging idle in a gear. FEW and Very Faint...

Taking it out for More miles this friday and weekend Just to check the mileage and Ride it.

I will need practice and re read-  re read -  re read the instructions to do the Smart tune... I'll get there.

IF the bike had come OFF the Dyno from that hD shop,,,,,,, with YOUR tune you gave me, and running like it does,,,,,, I Would have been Happy ....

It will improve when I get to Smart Tuning it LIKE You Said...

signed....BUBBIE

[BUBBIE]

 

What Gives???

RAIN in Az... well that puts off my riding for a few days.... I might melt if I get Wet...

Just talked with my friend "geezer ron"  from Manitoba and it might warm up to 32* tomorrow and I KNOW he'll be out riding... You Canucks are a Tough Breed ....

Good chance  for me to listen/read and watch my Learning CD again. Smart Tune and the PC are Both new to me BUT I am getting the hang of it. 

Coyote was correct when he said some people just need   well I may need a couple of them

Thanks all until later

signed....BUBBIE

[hrdtail78]

Glad to hear to you got a good starter map.  Good luck.

[BUBBIE]

Just an UP-date.....

I put the 009 tune back into the bike. Changed out the fuel to the ethanol and moved the lower RPM/kpa to 13.9 out of loop. and a few other Secret things....Using that HD tune from the 2010/11 bike with the same Mods as my bike. Don Dorfman's heads Mostly stock but Blueprinted, squeezed down a bit, Singh Grooved,  using .030 gaskets, 190lbs ccc here at 4400' elevation. plus some intake work. then, SE103 flat-tops, SE 255 cams, Gaterman lifters, V&H slip-ons, SE air... Using the SE Pro Tuner and my PC lap-top. Seat of my backside as the Dyno.

One thing I like using this later tune is the Cruise doesn't kick out at 82 like the stock 09 does. Now kicks out at 95...

Whoever thinks the SE255 cams Don't run FAST at Higher RPM and Power at higher RPM NEEDS TO RIDE MY BIKE...

Had a dept. Sheriff ride my bike yesterday, to compare what I did to mine that he might want ( Now WANTS) to do to his 96" 08 SG Skull covered custom painted bike.

He rode it 12 miles and I could Hear him go thru the gears.
Coming back to a stop with the BIGGEST SMILE I have ever seen on him.... Shaking his head saying Several times " MAN",,,,,, "MAN it is surely a TICKET Getter"...  Laughing,,,,Saying he thought a Stater might of seen him on the test ride.

Sure, Thanks, Now I've got to watch out for him...

Thanks for the many HELPS here and JUST waiting for HOT weather here in Az. , to see IF it runs good with NO Ping like Now.

signed....BUBBIE

[fltrdes]

Really enjoy reading this thread. LOTS of  useful information for another NEW SEPST owner. I have the SEPST, cables and training DVD but NOT the BIKE!!! Mine is currently being reassembled by my dealer after warranty replacing flywheel assy, SE Compensator, leaky stator plug and a few other maladies.
Will flash a starting tune when I get the bike back with stock engine and SE-255 cams, Stage 1 A/C and stock exhaust. My intention is to have a reliable map to get the new engine parts broke in (500-1000 miles) before conducting smart tune runs to tune in the new map. Wurk truk was nice enough to guide me towards a starting map in my SEPST software as a starting point.

[strokerjlk]

Problem is you don't know what you have for those first 500-1000 miles .
Much more important to have it tuned correct , during the seating of the rings .
Seating the rings while tuning stoich is not a good idea either .

[fltrdes]

Problem is you don't know what you have for those first 500-1000 miles .

Do you mean I don't know what my ECM parameters are during the break in?

Much more important to have it tuned correct , during the seating of the rings .

Doesn't 'active' tuning actually require the motor to already be 'broken in'? Seems kind of like a 'Catch 22' situation....

Seating the rings while tuning stoich is not a good idea either .

Stoich being 14.6 in closed loop, which is where the better breakin RPM range would be running with 205UH005.dt0. Seems like the SE Exhaust parameter for this MAP would add more fuel with the injector pulse. I am running a more restrictive OEM stock exhaust system.

The 044SBN004.dt0 map for newer 2010-2013 and similar configuration w/SE255 cams allows stoich adjustment for Ethanol fuel (14.6, 14.3 & 13.5), which we have in this area. Strange the 205UH005.dt0 MAP does not allow for this change (I know I am missing something here...!). Probably the 02 sensor type...? Can I just readjust this area manually?

[strokerjlk]

You might know what the map says the parameters are . But until you calabrate the ve's you have no idea what the Afr actually is .
It can be set at 14.6 in the Afr table , and be actual 17.0 Afr .
Or it can say 12.5 at wot in thr afr table and be 10.0 Afr actual .
If your going to tune it . Tune it right away . Riding 500-1000 miles untuned is far more Detrimental than anything a proper dyno tune will do . If your gonna try to tune with the stock narrow bands , you might as well start as soon as you do a heat cycle .
But tuning with narrow bands creates a lot of heat . That's the catch 22 .
Your choices are riding in tuned for 1000 miles , or seating the rings and tuning at stoich .

You seem to have a lot  of faith in a canned map . They are just a place to start tuning from .

[hrdtail78]

Closed loop tuning does not equal 14.7 or 1 lambda.  While in CL mode the ECM will hold AFR to a tolerance around the target AFR.  The tolorance is not 10-17:1 AFR.

I believe in getting it tuned right away.  No reason to wait. 

[fltrdes]

Closed loop tuning does not equal 14.7 or 1 lambda.  While in CL mode the ECM will hold AFR to a tolerance around the target AFR.  The tolorance is not 10-17:1 AFR.

I believe in getting it tuned right away.  No reason to wait. 

You might know what the map says the parameters are . But until you calabrate the ve's you have no idea what the Afr actually is .
It can be set at 14.6 in the Afr table , and be actual 17.0 Afr .
Or it can say 12.5 at wot in thr afr table and be 10.0 Afr actual .
If your going to tune it . Tune it right away . Riding 500-1000 miles untuned is far more Detrimental than anything a proper dyno tune will do . If your gonna try to tune with the stock narrow bands , you might as well start as soon as you do a heat cycle .
But tuning with narrow bands creates a lot of heat . That's the catch 22 .
Your choices are riding in tuned for 1000 miles , or seating the rings and tuning at stoich .

You seem to have a lot  of faith in a canned map . They are just a place to start tuning from .

strokerjlk, please don't interpret my post as having so much 'faith' in canned maps. I just think that the maps provided by HD are supposed to be close enough that you wouldn't harm your motor. Maybe I am mistaken there... I am just looking for a STARTING point to at least get the bike through some initial heat cycles and get the bike the 6 miles home from the dealer. I may well be too far over my head to do that and should just take my SEPST and cables in there and let them not only conduct the first initial break in heat cycles, but let them tune it on the dyno. I was trying to save some $$ and learn this at the same time.
hrdtail78, thanks for your input as well. You guys have far more experience than I and if you've built motors and gone through the tuning process as well as break in process, then you know exactly what I need to do. Right?

I will have a conversation with my tech and have him make the final say so on how to proceed. After all, he built it and should know what I need to do to get this bike safely out of the shop and road worthy. Once they have re-mapped it with whatever base map they use, I can get that from them as well as the tuned map from my VCI once the bike is released to me. I may be allowed to watch and learn from them while the tune it in.
It has been a lot of years since I had to break in a new bike, or new motor parts for that matter, so am a little rusty on procedure or what the Twin Cam requires... Googling the issue brings up several opinions.

I confess I have a set of Xied's I've not used yet, too. Could throw them on to enrichin the 02s till I have a few local miles on the thing...(don't laugh, damn it!)

[hdmanillac]

The 044SBN004.dt0 map for newer 2010-2013 and similar configuration w/SE255 cams allows stoich adjustment for Ethanol fuel (14.6, 14.3 & 13.5), which we have in this area. Strange the 205UH005.dt0 MAP does not allow for this change (I know I am missing something here...!). Probably the 02 sensor type...? Can I just readjust this area manually?

205UH005 is an AFR cal that is tuned for 14.68 stoich fuel (gas). It need to be adjusted each time you change fuel.

044SBN004 is a lambda cal that adapts itself to the fuel you choose.

AFR is always related to a stoich AFR value depending on the fuel (gas, E10, E85...), whereas lambda is independant value.

[strokerjlk]

Closed loop tuning does not equal 14.7 or 1 lambda.  While in CL mode the ECM will hold AFR to a tolerance around the target AFR.  The tolorance is not 10-17:1 AFR.

I believe in getting it tuned right away.  No reason to wait. 

You might know what the map says the parameters are . But until you calabrate the ve's you have no idea what the Afr actually is .
It can be set at 14.6 in the Afr table , and be actual 17.0 Afr .
Or it can say 12.5 at wot in thr afr table and be 10.0 Afr actual .
If your going to tune it . Tune it right away . Riding 500-1000 miles untuned is far more Detrimental than anything a proper dyno tune will do . If your gonna try to tune with the stock narrow bands , you might as well start as soon as you do a heat cycle .
But tuning with narrow bands creates a lot of heat . That's the catch 22 .
Your choices are riding in tuned for 1000 miles , or seating the rings and tuning at stoich .

You seem to have a lot  of faith in a canned map . They are just a place to start tuning from .

strokerjlk, please don't interpret my post as having so much 'faith' in canned maps. I just think that the maps provided by HD are supposed to be close enough that you wouldn't harm your motor. Maybe I am mistaken there... I am just looking for a STARTING point to at least get the bike through some initial heat cycles and get the bike the 6 miles home from the dealer. I may well be too far over my head to do that and should just take my SEPST and cables in there and let them not only conduct the first initial break in heat cycles, but let them tune it on the dyno. I was trying to save some $$ and learn this at the same time.
hrdtail78, thanks for your input as well. You guys have far more experience than I and if you've built motors and gone through the tuning process as well as break in process, then you know exactly what I need to do. Right?

I will have a conversation with my tech and have him make the final say so on how to proceed. After all, he built it and should know what I need to do to get this bike safely out of the shop and road worthy. Once they have re-mapped it with whatever base map they use, I can get that from them as well as the tuned map from my VCI once the bike is released to me. I may be allowed to watch and learn from them while the tune it in.
It has been a lot of years since I had to break in a new bike, or new motor parts for that matter, so am a little rusty on procedure or what the Twin Cam requires... Googling the issue brings up several opinions.

I confess I have a set of Xied's I've not used yet, too. Could throw them on to enrichin the 02s till I have a few local miles on the thing...(don't laugh, damn it!)

6 miles is a lot diff than 500-1000
good luck 

[fltrdes]

The 044SBN004.dt0 map for newer 2010-2013 and similar configuration w/SE255 cams allows stoich adjustment for Ethanol fuel (14.6, 14.3 & 13.5), which we have in this area. Strange the 205UH005.dt0 MAP does not allow for this change (I know I am missing something here...!). Probably the 02 sensor type...? Can I just readjust this area manually?

205UH005 is an AFR cal that is tuned for 14.68 stoich fuel (gas). It need to be adjusted each time you change fuel.

hdmanillac,
So I would manually change the AFR tables to a Ethanol mix gas to say 13.6 to account for our area gas? Aren't our 02 sensors designed to to force the ECM to adjust back to 14.7, even if we flashed the new table?

044SBN004 is a lambda cal that adapts itself to the fuel you choose.

AFR is always related to a stoich AFR value depending on the fuel (gas, E10, E85...), whereas lambda is independent value.

Are you tuning your own '09? I know our 02 sensors are different than '10 & later...

[hdmanillac]

with and AFR based cal you'll have to manually change the stoichiometric factor for the specific gas you use.

With a lambda based cal, you will have nothing to do.

O2 sensor only return a value in mV related to O2% in exhaust gases regardless the fuel you use.

O2 sensor are different models between 2009 (not heated) and 2010 (heated) bikes but they return the same value in mV.

And yes I'm tuning my own 09'. I'm not a profesionnal tuner, just fan of HD V-Twin !

[hrdtail78]

Both sensors are going to put out the same voltage.  They are both lambda sensors and put out lambda signal voltage.  Changing the scale in the program is going to do nothing on how the ECM reads the voltage or what lambda it is going to target.  It is just a scale you our reading.

Lambda = 450mv  If 14.2 is stoich, That will put out 450mv.  If 13.8 is stoich, that will put out 450.  No reason to change from fuel to fuel.  It is scaling.