How to use a SE pro Super Tuner for IDIOTS

[BUBBIE]

While you guys are here??

Can I keep a light charger (2amp) working on the battery While I use the Tuning devices/program in computer?

I'm just learning so I really don't want to damage anything.

My battery is new and up BUT I'm slow and need the time with key on to learn.

Thanks for the answer...

signed....BUBBIE

[Coyote]

Keeping a charger on the battery won't hurt anything.

[BUBBIE]

How can I get a  READY program for my 09 King using 103" 10.15 compression. SE air, V&H slip-on exhaust and SE255/ Don D. head shinn grooved (pretty much stock)  (generic program) to install to re work the bad tune put into my bike dyno'd by Tucson HD. Looking at the files and I see nothing from HD using the SE255 cams I have.  The littlest. 204 with less compression and then larger cams using 10.5...? ARE in the file to use...

I've got a lot to Learn here. GREEN at it but I'll try...

Any answers will do IF you guys would

Thanks..

signed....BUBBIE

[1Canuck]

How can I get a  READY program for my 09 King using 103" 10.15 compression. SE air, V&H slip-on exhaust and SE255/ Don D. head shinn grooved (pretty much stock)  (generic program) to install to re work the bad tune put into my bike dyno'd by Tucson HD. Looking at the files and I see nothing from HD using the SE255 cams I have.  The littlest. 204 with less compression and then larger cams using 10.5...? ARE in the file to use...

I've got a lot to Learn here. GREEN at it but I'll try...

Any answers will do IF you guys would

Thanks..

signed....BUBBIE

2009 touring 205UH005 stage 2 w/255 cam
yes the canned maps are limited to the combo you have. at least these maps start with a tune for the cam you have.. do the data runs and fine tune.    

[strokerjlk]

How can I get a  READY program for my 09 King using 103" 10.15 compression. SE air, V&H slip-on exhaust and SE255/ Don D. head shinn grooved (pretty much stock)  (generic program) to install to re work the bad tune put into my bike dyno'd by Tucson HD. Looking at the files and I see nothing from HD using the SE255 cams I have.  The littlest. 204 with less compression and then larger cams using 10.5...? ARE in the file to use...

I've got a lot to Learn here. GREEN at it but I'll try...

Any answers will do IF you guys would

Thanks..

signed....BUBBIE

2009 touring 205UH005 stage 2 w/255 cam
yes the canned maps are limited to the combo you have. at least these maps start with a tune for the cam you have.. do the data runs and fine tune.    

got your pm BUBBIE. sorry didnt see this
again I agree with 1 Canuck

[BUBBIE]

 

Found a livable Tune to install. Actually for my bike and mods...

Se 255 cams using SE air, exhaust,  with a bit more compression.

009SAH002

seems to get me back from 29 (freeway HOT wind pushing) and 39 normal conditions MPG ... Way RICH settings installed by Tucson HD on their Dyno...

Now with above program I installed:  Getting a respectable 43/44 MPG and no ping...

Their Dyno'd set-up Tune had a problem with MY hand accelerator and would almost Die when lightly turned... Saying I needed a New intake manifold with the motor....     Sure funny with this tune installed all that seemed to be resolved... No problem with the accelerator now

Now maybe smart tuning needed and it will be good enough

signed....BUBBIE

[strokerjlk]

Found a livable Tune to install. Actually for my bike and mods...

Se 255 cams using SE air, exhaust,  with a bit more compression.

009SAH002

seems to get me back from 29 (freeway HOT wind pushing) and 39 normal conditions MPG ... Way RICH settings installed by Tucson HD on their Dyno...

Now with above program I installed:  Getting a respectable 43/44 MPG and no ping...

Their Dyno'd set-up Tune had a problem with MY hand accelerator and would almost Die when lightly turned... Saying I needed a New intake manifold with the motor....     Sure funny with this tune installed all that seemed to be resolved... No problem with the accelerator now

Now maybe smart tuning needed and it will be good enough

signed....BUBBIE

that's a decent cal.
did you alter it any yet?

[1Canuck]

Found a livable Tune to install. Actually for my bike and mods...

Se 255 cams using SE air, exhaust,  with a bit more compression.

009SAH002

seems to get me back from 29 (freeway HOT wind pushing) and 39 normal conditions MPG ... Way RICH settings installed by Tucson HD on their Dyno...

Now with above program I installed:  Getting a respectable 43/44 MPG and no ping...

Their Dyno'd set-up Tune had a problem with MY hand accelerator and would almost Die when lightly turned... Saying I needed a New intake manifold with the motor....     Sure funny with this tune installed all that seemed to be resolved... No problem with the accelerator now

Now maybe smart tuning needed and it will be good enough

signed....BUBBIE

that's a decent cal.
did you alter it any yet?

yes and it opens up a whole new topic of discussion. both list same parts except different AC. why have cal files listed for 2009 touring and have 2010-2013 files that also work with the same 2009 ECM, one lambda based versus other closed loop bias. why is the spark timing pulled up to 4*, the VE richer in one, plus a few other. Both tuning are similar, one with EITMS on, other off
In the end tuning may bring both the same or close. After 3 years running the 009 map I decided to install the 044 (wondering why there were two choices). The 044 pulls stronger even though the visible maps AFR & VE are close after tuning. Only guess is the hidden maps we here of that must be in play.

[BUBBIE]

IF I MONKEY with it I Might not have it run this good... So,,,,,No I have not changed any settings.

I feel the low end needs some change. I think it is a little lean at idle and up a few hundred rpm on fuel. (un smooth like,,,,, Very Faint Starving)     

It has a Little bit of "not being Perfectly smooth" at slow cruise speed like it could...
I really can't explain the feeling but it may need little more fuel But sometimes that might mean it needs less.. (If a carb, I'd have it whipped)

I still don't know smart tune??? I Am NOT schooled on this program, even though I have the CD,,, picking it up little by little. I'm un sure IF I need the computer Hooked up while I use Smart Tune recording or will it work without the computer on the bike riding it... (recorder I do understand BUT then What)

Some say to run smart tune BUT I have ?  I need MORE experience to use the smart tune... I think with practice and a little instruction...

The damn Teaching program doesn't TELL you How to use the smart tune. No step by step setting it up that I have found... THEN what are you looking for.??

Does it Know what is needed after running normal for a while?

Somme of the training course is like tossing out a bunch of ideas and not telling How to connect them for use (if that makes sense?)

Thanks for any help...

Thanks Coyote,,,,,You 'D Man :

signed....BUBBIE

PM Sent Canuck

[1Canuck]

bubbie
are you using the latest software 2014. confirm you have flashed 009SAH002. you are ready to start. The VCI is supposed to record 15 minutes without the computer hooked up, however I have recorded up to an hour. If you PM me your email I can send you a 2011PDF user manual, not much has changed, may be an easier read.
you should go ahead and do smart tune data runs. you can always start over so do not be concerned. you have to reflash the tune this time checking the smartune and reset AFV. once you do that, you can retrieve the flash from VCI to see how it changes the AFR and spark advance (just to know). once smart tune is flashed then go to the toolbox icon and set VCI to record. \
you can do the VE changes now or later but always flash the last saved tune so you are not running 14.6 AFR across the board unless doing data runs. enough for now

[BUBBIE]

I asked Coyote to Move My part of the thread into the new thread ..... I TITLED the thread and it was My Idea for IDIOTS... Kinda like the Idiot Light...

NO offense meant to any others who Might not KNOW and are not Idiots...

Could have been Called "Help for the Dummy's" but too many books out for them already...



signed....BUBBIE

[strokerjlk]

IF I MONKEY with it I Might not have it run this good... So,,,,,No I have not changed any settings.
you can always re flash the map like it is now .

I feel the low end needs some change. I think it is a little lean at idle and up a few hundred rpm on fuel. (un smooth like,,,,, Very Faint Starving)     

It has a Little bit of "not being Perfectly smooth" at slow cruise speed like it could...
I really can't explain the feeling but it may need little more fuel But sometimes that might mean it needs less.. (If a carb, I'd have it whipped)

take it out of closed loop below 2500 . somewhere around 13.8-14.2 and see if it smooths out

I still don't know smart tune??? I Am NOT schooled on this program, even though I have the CD,,, picking it up little by little. I'm un sure IF I need the computer Hooked up while I use Smart Tune recording or will it work without the computer on the bike riding it... (recorder I do understand BUT then What)

Some say to run smart tune BUT I have ?  I need MORE experience to use the smart tune... I think with practice and a little instruction...

The damn Teaching program doesn't TELL you How to use the smart tune. No step by step setting it up that I have found... THEN what are you looking for.??

Does it Know what is needed after running normal for a while?

Somme of the training course is like tossing out a bunch of ideas and not telling How to connect them for use (if that makes sense?)

Thanks for any help...

Thanks Coyote,,,,,You 'D Man :

signed....BUBBIE

PM Sent Canuck

[strokerjlk]

make it look something like this in the AFR table. and see what it does ,you can always go back.

[BUBBIE]

Today, I changed to use the Lower AFR # (more fuel) for 10% ethanol. (14.4)

Running it today proved it is a tad rich as it Burbles a Faint sound in the exhaust at slow speed throttle let offs. NOT loud but it is there right at the bottom end of the rpm range on slowing down.

The idle is labored Just a Little;  as if too much OR not enough fuel. like it wants to quit running when coming to a stop then picks back up to a normal idle but yet sporadic....

I know,  I know,  Make up my mind...

Believe me, this tune works better than the $$ tune from the HD shop.

It gives me the power when I twist the throttle and man it is there right now.

I will get the Low idle fixed soon by doing the MONKEYING I do and YES, I am enjoying to do it on My Bike.

LOL a fellow I know and telling him I am doing My own tuning...  said "There IS Big Money in TUNING HD's you know"...... I replied YES I know, I have spent a bunch on a Bad tune already

Thanks for the help so far... I'll bore you and keep posting here.

signed....BUBBIE

ADDED:

strokerjlk,

I am looking at your chart it just SCARY to think about...Maybe in a few days, as I just need to ride with the bike working so GOOD right now...
(wed for sure)

[strokerjlk]

I am looking at your chart it just SCARY to think about...Maybe in a few days, as I just need to ride with the bike working so GOOD right now...
(wed for sure)

if you use the table  for a guide,take the 14.2's in the 30 kpa areas to 13.8.
should help the burble you talked about.
since it isnt tuned correct. or at least the ve tables havent been dialed in,you have to get it out of closed loop.
if your dyno tune ran decent for a while before it started  unraveling ? you might try taking the dyno tuned map to open loop,and try it again.

[1Canuck]

strokerjlk
because I am still learning I compared the tune bubbie flashed 009SAH002 to my own and was surprised to see that the spark tables were retarded and the VE tables were also 10 less. I expected to see more VE not less with a 255 cam involved. So it looked leaner. can you explain
Steve

[strokerjlk]

strokerjlk
because I am still learning I compared the tune bubbie flashed 009SAH002 to my own and was surprised to see that the spark tables were retarded and the VE tables were also 10 less. I expected to see more VE not less with a 255 cam involved. So it looked leaner. can you explain
Steve

looked at them earlier and if i can remember correctly?
009 cal is flat top pistons OE or perf heads
044 is OE pistons and OE heads.

009 IS 103.3 CI
044 IS 103.0 CI in the constants.

009 ACR disabled
044 ACR enabled
so the 044 is a factory 103 with 255 cams added as a stage 2
009 is a BB kit with out ACR'S
they must figure the 009 has a little more compression,so they backed off timing.

they gave the 009 a little more fuel when they increased the ci .3 in the constant ,so the ve's are lower . just a SWAG
its all just a SWAG off the actual developed cal from the moco so its hard to tell

[HD/Wrench]

Being where you live your bike is only going to see 85-90 KPA  WOT  on AVG Now on a good air day. You will have to shift the afr to the left some and timing back some as well


Also the cal you are using is a MAP based cal not a TPS cal as your bike is a 2009.  The 18 MM vs the 12MM have two different out put codes from what I have read.... so the map may load you will have some off set///  I  have seen this happen and the tune is incorrect after guys have tried to smart tune the bike. But that was a while ago.  Myself if you are using smart tune load the correct base cal and then go from there, open loop tune would will work fine if you are using another data gathering system..

[1Canuck]

 
To explain my question on why the VE  original is different between 009 & 044 for 1690 stage 2 with SE255 cam, and then why does a stock 1580 stage 1 original take more air then stage 2 with SE255.
Only slight differences in the AFR table.
I would have expected more air flow. So what is it that I am missing?

009SAH002 & 044SDH004, both 1690 Stage 2, FT, SE255 cams
Compared to each other, and then compared to 044AAG003 for 1580 stock cam
For comparison purpose only the original 9 cells top left corner of VE front, 750-1125 rpm & up to 30 map

    70.0
   70.0
   70.0
     70.0
   70.0
   70.0
     67.0
   67.0
   67.0
    009SAH002 1690 Stage 2, FT, SE255 cams

    50.0
   50.0
   50.0
     50.0
   50.0
   50.0
     50.0
   50.0
   50.0
    044SDH004 1690 Stage 2, FT, SE255 cams

    79.0
   78.0
   77.0
     79.0
   78.5
   77.0
     79.0
   78.5
   78.5
    044AAG003 1580 stock cam

[strokerjlk]

I would be surprised if any of those cals are generated from a actual motorcycle .
They were more than likely, just generated from another cal. So it's just a formula .
That's why throwing maps at a bike is hit and miss.
There are some differences as I pointed out.
Pistons and head's
CI constant of 103.3 vs 103.0 means the map with .3 more ci is going to add more fuel globally .
So the ve's will be lower , if all things were equal
The timing is altered because flat top big bore with perf or OEM heads cal, is higher compression . ( or they thing it is higher comp)
In the end they are all just a place to start .

[hrdtail78]

 
To explain my question on why the VE  original is different between 009 & 044 for 1690 stage 2 with SE255 cam, and then why does a stock 1580 stage 1 original take more air then stage 2 with SE255.
Only slight differences in the AFR table.
I would have expected more air flow. So what is it that I am missing?

There are other tables we can't see.  Tables that address EGR for example.  Tuning these tables can bring down VE's.

Also the cal you are using is a MAP based cal not a TPS cal as your bike is a 2009.  The 18 MM vs the 12MM have two different out put codes from what I have read.... so the map may load you will have some off set///  I  have seen this happen and the tune is incorrect after guys have tried to smart tune the bike. But that was a while ago.  Myself if you are using smart tune load the correct base cal and then go from there, open loop tune would will work fine if you are using another data gathering system..

That cal. is for open loop only.

[1Canuck]

Both base maps  009SAH002  & 044SDH004 for 1690 Stage 2, FT, SE255 cams for 2010-2013 Touring. both list the same HD part numbers including FT SE Big Bore Flat Top Pistons, both are 103.3. The only difference in the tuning setup (constants?) are max RPM 009=6100, 044=6500.
AFR 009 has 14.4 & 14.3, the 044 has 14.3, 14.4, 14.5 & 14.6 so closed loop but close.
the 044 cal has 14.6 AFR with 50 in the VE, the 009 has 14.4 with 70 in the same cell. (of course displayed in lambda).
Even using a formula to develop cals as Strokerjlk said, there is a large difference (20) for a hidden table to compensate.
Then I compare to a base map for a 96.7ci the same cell is 14.3 & 77. So forgive me for having trouble understanding why a smaller cylinder fills with more air, and even the same 103.3 cylinder has such different base numbers.

[strokerjlk]

Both base maps  009SAH002  & 044SDH004 for 1690 Stage 2, FT, SE255 cams for 2010-2013 Touring. both list the same HD part numbers including FT SE Big Bore Flat Top Pistons, both are 103.3. The only difference in the tuning setup (constants?) are max RPM 009=6100, 044=6500.
AFR 009 has 14.4 & 14.3, the 044 has 14.3, 14.4, 14.5 & 14.6 so closed loop but close.
the 044 cal has 14.6 AFR with 50 in the VE, the 009 has 14.4 with 70 in the same cell. (of course displayed in lambda).
Even using a formula to develop cals as Strokerjlk said, there is a large difference (20) for a hidden table to compensate.
Then I compare to a base map for a 96.7ci the same cell is 14.3 & 77. So forgive me for having trouble understanding why a smaller cylinder fills with more air, and even the same 103.3 cylinder has such different base numbers.

the 96 ci has a smaller injector constant.

[harpwrench]

Both base maps  009SAH002  & 044SDH004 for 1690 Stage 2, FT, SE255 cams for 2010-2013 Touring. both list the same HD part numbers including FT SE Big Bore Flat Top Pistons, both are 103.3. The only difference in the tuning setup (constants?) are max RPM 009=6100, 044=6500.
AFR 009 has 14.4 & 14.3, the 044 has 14.3, 14.4, 14.5 & 14.6 so closed loop but close.
the 044 cal has 14.6 AFR with 50 in the VE, the 009 has 14.4 with 70 in the same cell. (of course displayed in lambda).
Even using a formula to develop cals as Strokerjlk said, there is a large difference (20) for a hidden table to compensate.
Then I compare to a base map for a 96.7ci the same cell is 14.3 & 77. So forgive me for having trouble understanding why a smaller cylinder fills with more air, and even the same 103.3 cylinder has such different base numbers.

Lambda cals don't use CLB, so when spotting differences you need to look at that. 14.6 with a higher-whatever CLB is kinda saying the same thing as 14.3 in lambda-speak. And there can be a difference in what AFR number is there for a given lambda if there's different numbers for stoic value of the fuel.

[1Canuck]

the 96 ci has a smaller injector constant.

all three are 4.35 injectors. but never mind the 96, why is there 20 difference in the VE table between the 009 & 044 cals for the same 103 engine.
Sorry Bubbie, you chose to use a 2010, 009 cal instead of the 205 cal for your 2009 bike and I have high jacked your thread trying to understand why it works.