Burns Stainless Exhaust Headers

[vincer77]

This is Vince with Burns Stainless, http://www.burnsstainless.com the exhaust guys.  NoCents suggested that I post here to get some feedback for a project we are undertaking.  We will be prototyping a production exhaust header for the high performance HD market - specifically baggers.   

We are planning a 2-1 system, and later develop a 2-2 system (with X-pipe). We expect a Stage 1 (stock to ~110) and a Stage 2 pipe (up to 124).   They will be 3-step designs, 304SS (US mill) and TIG welded with our reverse cone megaphone mufflers, very similar to the pipe NoCents built for his 124.

The 2-1 design is gaining a lot of respect of late in the HD market.  In fact Wolfgang Grasser just took three first place, and one third place finishes at he Wyotech Shootout using our 2-1 merge collectors with reverse cone megaphones.

So I have a couple questions for you guys:

1.  Would you guys be interested in an exhaust for built motors?
2.  What would you be willing to pay for a high quality system?
3.  Do you think there is a market for both 2-1 and 2-2?
4.  This may be a difficult questions, but would like to get a feel for how much you guys mod your engines.  That is, do you just install cams, cams and a big bore kit or go directly to 117 and 124 builds.
5.  We are prototyping on a 2010 Road Glide TRX.  Does this make sense for the bagger market?
6.  Do you have any general comments?

Your help is appreciated!

Cheers,

Vince

[No Cents]

Hi Vince...and welcome to the HTT forum.
I personally think that the materials used in your exhaust systems is of the best quality.
I know a lot of people don't have the time and possibly know of a welder to fab up one of your kits.
With Burns being able to offer a complete direct bolt on exhaust system that will enhance performance...you will have a hit on your hands.
I'm sure this will peak the interest of many.
Good luck on this venture!
Ray

[Night hog]

I came in 3rd against Wolfgang in the 75.1 to 105 class and saw his exhaust.  I thought it had similarities to a 2-1 Bassani, but badass.  I bet it helped a lot, looked well made and good quality.  I would definitely like something like that on my bike but in stage 1. His 3rd place  finish was his street bike that made almost 150hp.

[jam65]

Hey Vince, This is Jay and not Ray and you doesn't have to call me Johnson. I think you will find some interest here on your product offerings.

[JohnCA58]

Vince,  I would love to get a 2:1:2 system that will work with the Baker plus one oil pan for the 120 touring bike,  and like Ray says complete.

[Night hog]

Here is a picture of Wolfgang and his bike that I think you are talking about.

[attachment removed after 60 days by system]

[ThumperDeuce]

I currently have Otto building me one of your pipes.  One of my main motivating factors to do this build is that you designed it to the specs of my engine.  If you could still offer this I think it would be good to not have to go through finding a local builder as some people may not have someone close.  The other thing that comes to mind is how loud it the pipe going to be.  Personally it is not an issue for me if it is loud.

I have to tell you guys the quality of the Burns stuff is outstanding.  The inside of the muffler / collector is a piece of art.  The quality of the welds and the smoothness of the bore and the transitions is amazing.

[hd king]

How about a 2:1 Dyna pipe as well?

[baggerpaul]

I think it would be great to have other options in a high quality pipe. I have seen your products at the pri show .and have customers that run your product. Excellent quality! I would run your pipe in a heartbeat. I need a new pipe this poor thunderheader is worn out and the baffle is ready to fall out! Hurry up and put it in production. !

[FlaHeatWave]

This is Vince with Burns Stainless, http://www.burnsstainless.com the exhaust guys.  NoCents suggested that I post here to get some feedback for a project we are undertaking.  We will be prototyping a production exhaust header for the high performance HD market - specifically baggers.   

We are planning a 2-1 system, and later develop a 2-2 system (with X-pipe). We expect a Stage 1 (stock to ~110) and a Stage 2 pipe (up to 124).   They will be 3-step designs, 304SS (US mill) and TIG welded with our reverse cone megaphone mufflers, very similar to the pipe NoCents built for his 124.

The 2-1 design is gaining a lot of respect of late in the HD market.  In fact Wolfgang Grasser just took three first place, and one third place finishes at he Wyotech Shootout using our 2-1 merge collectors with reverse cone megaphones.

So I have a couple questions for you guys:

1.  Would you guys be interested in an exhaust for built motors?
Of course!
2.  What would you be willing to pay for a high quality system?
If it was easy to tune (EFI) , a functional piece of art $100.-$200. more than what is presently available
3.  Do you think there is a market for both 2-1 and 2-2?
Yes. I know 2-1 gives the better #s, but a majority of Harley Bagger owners (I for one) prefer 2 (functional) exhaust pipes exiting in the factory locations.4. 
This may be a difficult questions, but would like to get a feel for how much you guys mod your engines.  That is, do you just install cams, cams and a big bore kit or go directly to 117 and 124 builds.
The majority start w/ cams, then big bore kits, then a relative minority graduate to 117 / 124.
5.  We are prototyping on a 2010 Road Glide TRX.  Does this make sense for the bagger market?
Yes, all (but one) of the Harley Twin Cam Baggers share the same chassis / engine geometry
6.  Do you have any general comments?
If possible you might build basically a "one size fits all" header pipe that one could either remove/install (for lack of better terms) "pressure cones" to accommodate the backpressure/reversion characteristics that the different Builds require. (one pipe that you could grow with). Or an exhaust that has some tuneability, depending if the user is looking for broad TQ or high end HP.
Pay attention to 02 Sensor placement.
It appears that your target market is high end modified motors, there for, 'Would not spend time developing for <110" as that's what CVO Harleys are, and the demographics (probably) show more potential customers for a high end exhaust system. 

Your help is appreciated!

Cheers,

Vince

[q1svt]

Welcome to HTT Vince...

We are planning a 2-1 system, and later develop a 2-2 system (with X-pipe). We expect a Stage 1 (stock to ~110) and a Stage 2 pipe (up to 124).   They will be 3-step designs, 304SS (US mill) and TIG welded with our reverse cone megaphone mufflers, very similar to the pipe NoCents built for his 124.

So I have a couple questions for you guys:

1.  Would you guys be interested in an exhaust for built motors?
The dyno section is full of built bikes with specifications.... and advise/complaints about bagger exhaust

2.  What would you be willing to pay for a high quality system?
that would very on the system... head pipe, complete system...

3.  Do you think there is a market for both 2-1 and 2-2?
since the subject is baggers I think 2-1-2's provide the best compromise, lower rpm TQ output with top-end HP

4.  This may be a difficult questions, but would like to get a feel for how much you guys mod your engines.  That is, do you just install cams, cams and a big bore kit or go directly to 117 and 124 builds.
The dyno section should show we do all of it

5.  We are prototyping on a 2010 Road Glide TRX.  Does this make sense for the bagger market?

6.  Do you have any general comments?
Yes, let me be the first of many that will offer...
"We are planning a 2-1 system, and later develop a 2-2 system (with X-pipe). We expect a Stage 1 (stock to ~110) "
I'm north of the shop with a built stage I bagger that's running a neighbor of yours (V&H) 2-1-2 pipe... it could be available as a mule 

[Olivepearl]

Hmm... 2 into 1 for a 07 Softail with floor boards would be the ticket for me.

Robert

[Deye76]

Both 2X1 and 2X1X2 3 step pipes for baggers would get some attention from you guys (Burns). You have a well respected name, anyone who attended a AHDRA (RIP) race saw your pipes in action and heard about Burns.   

[groundhog143]

 2 into 1 pipe for big inch baggers will sell quickly 

[CowboyTutt]

Sad to see Dyna's get short thrift yet again.  Not everyone rides an 800 plus lb Bagger.  That's like hot rodding a school bus.  You can only "stuff" a 800+ pound motorcycle into a turn so fast before it becomes life threatening.  Some of us choose a lighter bike to begin with.  Guess I will be calling Wegner.  -Tutt 

[05fatboy95]

Welcome to the forum!

I hear nothing but good things about your pipes on this forum. That being said I think the amount of people willing to pay more for your exhaust over others on the market will be limited to mostly big inch motors chasing every hp/tq they can get.The average rider doesn't have the knowledge or understanding of what a proper exhaust will do for them. It would probably sell like crazy on this forum but that's a very small percent of the riders you will need make it worth your while.

Maybe get some prototypes out to the tuners on this forum. Let them
Post the charts of how good they are.
You get the good tuners and head porters talking up your pipes and they will sell them for you.

I wish you the best of luck!

[Olivepearl]

Sad to see Dyna's get short thrift yet again.  Not everyone rides an 800 plus lb Bagger.  That's like hot rodding a school bus.  You can only "stuff" a 800+ pound motorcycle into a turn so fast before it becomes life threatening.  Some of us choose a lighter bike to begin with.  Guess I will be calling Wegner.  -Tutt
[/quot

I agree with you 100% hell they aren't even making a Softail pipe which I find odd. How hard would it be to tool up for a short run.

Robert

[qtrracer]

I'm in for a 2-1 2008 Bagger

[vincer77]

As we get into the market a bit we will look at other models.   Problem we have identified is that the dynas have several configurations that make it difficult to amortize a pipe design.  Is this perception accurate?

I am actually partial to soft tails so would so definitely am interested in pursuing these also.

[CowboyTutt]

Maybe only because of foot control positioning, mid or forward on Dyna's.  I would think you could offer at least one of them?  Mid controls are better for the discriminating rider who corners hard.  -Tutt

[05fatboy95]

I would give one a try on my 107" softail with floorboards!

[TorQuePimp]

  I think for some it will come down to price....me included I like what I have and if the cost of a better system than I have is too much more ill just go the route that NoCents did and build my own.

  If you want to sell a entry level system for a bagger I would think the 2-1 would need to fit where most 2-1's do and extend the length of the bike and exit even with or better yet beyond the bags....meaning a longer dedicated muffler.

O2 sensor placement is also critical,some of the people making pipes...ok having them made still cannot get the placement correct despite being told to change the location by people who certainly know more about it than they do.

  Would also be nice to have heatshields.

  On the double throwdown asskicker 110-124+ system a little flexability on construction would be nice,varying the lengths of the primaries and offering a couple different mufflers/baffle diameters.

  2-1-2 system.....do not build one anything like what anyone is building the majority of the current systems have shortcomings that make the bikes perform poorly.....but they sound good SO it must be good......develop the system before releasing it and use shops that can produce repeatable realistic results.

   Good luck can always use another good product...been plenty of bad ones disguised as good ones recently.

[HighLiner]

Either pipe would be a welcomed option especially for the bigger inch engines where choices are limited.  Just keep it competitively priced and it will sell.

[No Cents]

Vince...I think the secret to selling your complete bolt on system is to have them dyno tested and proven...along with the price being competitive with other manufactures.
I spent more on my Burns kit...that had to be welded up...than I could of bought with a good bolt on system like the Fang or a Zilla.
I think this will be a key factor on how well sales will go.

[vdop]

Sad to see Dyna's get short thrift yet again.  Not everyone rides an 800 plus lb Bagger.  That's like hot rodding a school bus.  You can only "stuff" a 800+ pound motorcycle into a turn so fast before it becomes life threatening.  Some of us choose a lighter bike to begin with.  Guess I will be calling Wegner.  -Tutt

I agree, it sucks that nobody makes a good dyna pipe. The only decent pipes we have are big heavy, long, low and ugly. Baggers are the in thing now. Can't blame them for targeting the most popular market to get rolling. It would also make sense to target a line that has no other options though.

I'm building my own pipe out of scraps for now. I'll be contacting you Vince to have a merge collector made.