Speakers, Amp and Rings are in....

[Blowby]

Going to install the system tonight. Thanks UltraNutZ for your advice on the items for my 2003 (OEM stereo) upgrade on sound.

*Arc Audio 6.5" Speaker Adapter Rings
*Rockford Fosgate PBR300X2
*Infinity Kappa 6.5"
*BOSS Audio KIT2 8 Gauge Amplifier Installation Kit


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Need to look into setting up the funny dials and stuff...

[haze324]

I! had the same set up.  In my opinion it all depends on how you want to play your tunes.  I found that for MAX and I mean the most you can squeeze from that amp and speakers for MAX volume you need to use the High Pass (HP) and set it to roughly 60-80hz (so just a tad to the right of the 50).  Gain I had set at 5.

Now if you want the "best" quality sound set the amp to AP (all pass), you'll have better sounding low end (bass) but once you crank it too loud it will distort some.

[AAWAV]

what are you running? stock head unit? if so, DO NOT RUN MAX on your HU... first distortion on Harmon K HU kicks in right after 50-60% volume.
I would suggest to use the famous UN "By Ear" dial in. if not familiar, look it up. you probably know where to find it :-)
in VERY short works.
pick a good song with a broad frequency (sounds weird but I like several Van Halen songs or uhum... hotel cali - Eagles)
put HU at about 60% of volume (around 11-12), make sure gain on the amp is all the way down. then start increasing the gain (make sure song is in a louder part of it). keep increasing until you hear distortion (watch your ears!). Then once there, back up the gain a tad. voila - done.

FYI - no need to hook up the "remote" terminal in the RF amp. the PBR detects line signal.

[Blowby]

Thanks for the instructions. After my birthday ribeye with the wife I'll start the install.

[Blowby]

Almost completed with the install. One question on the "REM"12v switched power for the amp. Do you run it to a normal switched power source so it's powered up even with the radio off?

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[Gannicus]

That amp has an auto turn on feature when using high level inputs. It will automatically turn on when it senses a signal. I've found that often times with that amp the signal has to be at least 3 volts for this to occur. Sometimes with the stock HU it won't work due to the weak signal. In such case use the orange and white wire on the headlight harness. Also make sure the input level switch is set to high for the auto turn on to activate.

[Blowby]

...got it. Input from stereo (no RCA's).

[Blowby]

Sounds great! Too late at night to really start setting it up. REM wire was not needed to turn the amp on. System pops when turned off. How can you delay the amp turning on and off? No clear directions on how to use the HL adjustment. Tried it and turning CW it gets to a point that the amp doesn't have enough juice to turn on. No change in the pop. It's not too bad I guess. Did I say it sounds great!

[UltraNutZ]

Going to install the system tonight. Thanks UltraNutZ for your advice on the items for my 2003 (OEM stereo) upgrade on sound.

*Arc Audio 6.5" Speaker Adapter Rings
*Rockford Fosgate PBR300X2
*Infinity Kappa 6.5"
*BOSS Audio KIT2 8 Gauge Amplifier Installation Kit


[attach=0]

Need to look into setting up the funny dials and stuff...

Haze324 has you covered here.

When you set the amp to AP - All Pass - your bypassing the crossover so it is rendered inop.  When you flip it to HP, I wouldn't set as low as 60, but more like 80.  What this does is cuts out all the low end bass response below 80hz so that you can effectively crank it up louder without destroying speakers.  I can't recall me personally ever setting this to anything other than AP.  When you flip that switch to LP, it does just the opposite of HP in that if you set the crossover to 80, then you cut out all mid bass, mids, and highs above 80hz and effectively have a 6.5" woofer.

The orange dial indicator is what determines how much voltage is required to turn the amp off and on when using speaker level inputs from your head unit.  Again, I've not run into 1 single install where I had to adjust this from it's factory setting.  What it does is senses voltage coming down the speaker wire outputs of the head unit, and turns the amp on.  When voltage drops by turning radio off, then the amp turns off as well.  This ONLY is used with speaker level inputs.  If you're using RCA inputs, you must use the REM wire that is on the 3 pin power harness and connect it to an accessory circuit to turn amp off and on with the ignition switch.  If you're using an aftermarket head unit and RCA inputs to the amp, then you want to connect that REM input on the amp to the normally blue wire on the aftermarket head unit.

[UltraNutZ]

Sounds great! Too late at night to really start setting it up. REM wire was not needed to turn the amp on. System pops when turned off. How can you delay the amp turning on and off? No clear directions on how to use the HL adjustment. Tried it and turning CW it gets to a point that the amp doesn't have enough juice to turn on. No change in the pop. It's not too bad I guess. Did I say it sounds great!

Where is your ground for your amp?  If it's going directly to the battery as it should be then you likely have a ground loop.  Although not very common, it does happen from time to time.  Take a small piece of wire and attach to frame of amp, then attach other end to a screw on the back of the head unit.
If your ground is not going directly to the battery, then you need to do so.

[Blowby]

Where is your ground for your amp?  If it's going directly to the battery as it should be then you likely have a ground loop.  Although not very common, it does happen from time to time.  Take a small piece of wire and attach to frame of amp, then attach other end to a screw on the back of the head unit.

Ground is a direct 8g wire to the battery. I'll follow your advice and and run a ground from amp to stereo. I'll try it this morning.

[rbferg]

Sounds great! Too late at night to really start setting it up. REM wire was not needed to turn the amp on. System pops when turned off. How can you delay the amp turning on and off? No clear directions on how to use the HL adjustment. Tried it and turning CW it gets to a point that the amp doesn't have enough juice to turn on. No change in the pop. It's not too bad I guess. Did I say it sounds great!

Where is your ground for your amp?  If it's going directly to the battery as it should be then you likely have a ground loop.  Although not very common, it does happen from time to time.  Take a small piece of wire and attach to frame of amp, then attach other end to a screw on the back of the head unit.
If your ground is not going directly to the battery, then you need to do so.

I don't mean to hijack but is everyone grounding their amp straight to the battery now? I still have mine grounded to the previously recommended spot under the HU. Never had an issue.

[Coyote]

IMO, it's always better to go back to the battery for all audio devices. Just eliminates most of the possibility of bike related current/ground loop noise. But, hey, if you are not having an issue, I guess I wouldn't worry about it.

[ΚĜΗΟŜΤ]

VARIABLE HIGH LEVEL ADJUSTMENT
For a high level(speaker) input application the High/Low Level Switch needs to set to
High.
With the switch set to High, utilizing a 6V DC(Direct Current) offset voltage, the
Punch Boosted Rail amplifier can be turned on/off allowing the REM to be used as an
output to turn on/off an amplifier or other accessory.
The variable high level adjustment can be used to delay the turn on eliminating induced noise,
turn on/off pop.


Also:

Procedure 4: Check Amplifier if you experience Turn-on Pop.
1. Disconnect input signal to amplifier and turn amplifier on and off.
2. If the noise is eliminated, connect the REMOTE lead of amplifier to source unit with a delay turn-on
module.
OR
1. Use a different 12 Volt source for REMOTE lead of amplifier (i.e. battery direct).
2. If the noise is eliminated, use a relay to isolate the amplifier from noisy turn-on output.
OR
1. In a high level(speaker) input application the Variable High Level Adjustment can be used to delay the
turn on eliminating turn on/off pop.


From Rockford Fosgate web site:

http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/support/rftech.aspx?kbsrc=http://rftech.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/rftech.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=1007&p_li=&p_topview=1#knowledge

[rbferg]

I found best results setting the PBR300x2 to HP with freq between 60-80Hz. My gain is set to 5-6 and set by ear. Sounds allot cleaner to my ears than AP. Certainly try it both ways to see what what sounds best too you.

[Blowby]

I hooked up a direct ground from amp to stereo and still pops on shut down.

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Set HL Adjustment to the farthest CW that I could and still allow the amp to turn on. Still pops on shut down.

• Set the Gain and Freq per "UN By Ear" and it sounded good.
  
• Found some batting from a pillow (wife will never know) and tried to cut / seperate to thin 15x15 sections.
• Installed the batting and noticed it was about 1/2 thick in most areas. Didn't re-tune the settings just installed the fairing and had to get to work.

While riding I noticed at idle (stereo volume drops-2003 OEM HU) the sound was not as crisp. When I got up to speed the sound definition came back.
Adjusted the Bass to about 3 bars and the treble to 3/4 of the way. Sounded better.

• Padding too thick
• Need to Switch Freq up a bit
• Change to HP

These are my settings now. I'll go out and change them for the ride home. I see a few suggestions above and would like more if we can improve the crisp mid and high definition. I will pluck off some batting as well.

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[UltraNutZ]

pre 06 bikes are the only ones I've ever had these issues with.  now what's bothering me in your statement above is you mention your sound quality actually gets worse with lower volume levels, that's not right.  That makes me wonder if you've got some sort of charging issue where voltage is dropping below the 12v (or 11.9v) threshold.

Gonna ask you a stupid question so bare with me here.  With that PCV, did you by chance lower your idle RPMs from the stock setting of 1050-ish to something lower?

[Blowby]

Good question. I did not lower the RPM's and they are at about 1,050-1100. Watching the V-meter it's lower than it used to be. Before the amp install it would hover around 14.6 now its about 14.0 at idle which still seems fine. Power on, engine off, stereo, amp, spot lights, headlight on = 11.7
The batting I think is the culprit since I only noticed it after I installed it and took a ride. If it's too thick will it dampen the sound especially the low volume frequencies?

[UltraNutZ]

being a 1/2" thick is fine as long as you only used 1 layer around each speaker but to be honest at low volume levels you shouldn't hear any difference whatsoever.   

[z71_fourwheelin]

I have had the same popping issue for a year now. Grounded to battery, grounded head unit to amp, and rem is tied to aftermarket radio. still pops. I've got the kenwood x598 with ss 4.520 with mm651's

[UltraNutZ]

are you both using RCA inputs or speaker level inputs?

[z71_fourwheelin]

I'm using RCA's

[UltraNutZ]

z71.. what happens if you unplug the RCAs only. and turn the amp off and on.  still pops?

[z71_fourwheelin]

RCA's removed no pop when turn on n off. RCA's plugged in there's a POP

[UltraNutZ]

ok that tells me it's coming from the head unit.

try taking a piece of wire attached to the back of the headunit, and ground it in the same terminal as your ground on the amp.

[Blowby]

Speaker level inputs here.

[z71_fourwheelin]

Did that and now it is intermittent tried 5 turn offs and it popped twice unlike before where it was all 5 trys

[UltraNutZ]

Ok, process of elimination.  Now leave that ground where it is and connect a ground wire from the radio case to the amp case

[z71_fourwheelin]

Sorry Blowby.... Wasn't trying to hijack your thread. Just thought we had the same problem. I'll go to a PM if needed.

[Blowby]

No problem helping other members, I was always taught to share. 
I did remove some batting thickness and used the DMM with a 1000hz 0db wave to see where I was.
Calculated 24.495v and at what I thought was 3/4 volume (12bars of 15) would not let me get down below 28v. I dropped volume to 11 bars and set at 24.5 and it sounds real nice. Progression of setting to final setting where Gain was acquired by using sqrRT(300wx2r)=24.5v.

Just quick adjustment based on sound.
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After using the UN by Ear method.
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After the UN DMM method.
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[Blowby]

Still have pop only when turning off the ignition. I unplugged the input from Stereo to amp and no pop. With the amp input unplugged you can hear the radio shut off with the ignition, sounds like a light thud. This is whats transmitted to the amp and makes the pop.

Temporary pillow stuffing for the win. 
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[Riveroger]

Going to install the system tonight. Thanks UltraNutZ for your advice on the items for my 2003 (OEM stereo) upgrade on sound.

*Arc Audio 6.5" Speaker Adapter Rings
*Rockford Fosgate PBR300X2
*Infinity Kappa 6.5"
*BOSS Audio KIT2 8 Gauge Amplifier Installation Kit


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Need to look into setting up the funny dials and stuff...

The 8 Gauge wire is unnecessary and a pain in the ass to stuff in there ask me how I know, I used 10 Gauge no issues

[z71_fourwheelin]

After grounding each component, I'm down to the light power off thud. Thanks UN and Blowby

[Blowby]

Great Z71! Glad it resolved your pop.
I tried the ground wire from the rear of stereo to the terminal on the amp and no change. So I have stereo to amp terminal and stereo to amp frame.

[z71_fourwheelin]

My setup is now.... Amp grounded to battery. Amp casing grounded to frame and tied into amp battery ground.  Radio grounded to hawg wired interface and amp frame and frame.

[Blowby]

.... Also direct battery ground to amp terminal.

[UltraNutZ]

My setup is now.... Amp grounded to battery. Amp casing grounded to frame and tied into amp battery ground.  Radio grounded to hawg wired interface and amp frame and frame.

that my friend by all definitions is a ground loop that you've eliminated.  Now the "thud" from the head unit is going to be a bit harder to isolate but with a little patience it likely can be.  There are external devices that seem to work well at least when I've needed them they've worked.  The one I use is the Stinger SGN21.

[Blowby]

Ok based on z71's success the only ground wire I don't have in place is the "frame" to amp and stereo. Am I correct you mean motorcycle frame?

[z71_fourwheelin]

Yeah I'm connected at the old location of the handlebar bolt for grounding.

[Blowby]

Got it. I'll try that tonight.

[hdrolling]

Good read, this needs to be a sticky or a sticky made giving all these steps to try to trouble shoot.

[Blowby]

No success eliminating the pop on shut down with all the grounds below.

• 8g from amp terminal to battery.
• Amp frame to stereo.
• Motorcycle frame to stereo.
• Amp terminal to stereo.

I did redirect the tweeter pointing from 9:00 to 8:00 on the left and 3:00 to 4:00 on the right.
The tweeter button was pushed it using +3db so I clicked it out to 0db (sounds fuller and still crisp)
Still have AP set on the cross over and might try HP after the next ride when we have an opening in our weather.

Over all the sound is real good and very happy with the upgrade.

[z71_fourwheelin]

Only difference I see is you grounded from motorcycle frame to radio... try Motorcycle frame to amp frame instead of the stereo.

[Blowby]

Ok so I'll make that change from the motorcycle frame to the amp frame tonight. Picked up some 1/4 poly fill mat and will replace the pillow stuffing as well.

[Blowby]

Tried just about every combination of grounding and still have the pop. It's not bad at all so it must be just the stereo powering down amplified. I did wrap the speakers again and checked if the cross over from AP to HP sounded any better. I feel the AP delivers the best range of sound so it's all back and ready for a ride tomorrow.

Before:

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After:
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[z71_fourwheelin]

Let us know the results.

[UltraNutZ]

Tried just about every combination of grounding and still have the pop. It's not bad at all so it must be just the stereo powering down amplified. I did wrap the speakers again and checked if the cross over from AP to HP sounded any better. I feel the AP delivers the best range of sound so it's all back and ready for a ride tomorrow.

that looks great!

ok one more test for you.  Turn the HL adjust all the way up so that the amp never powers on with the radio.  Now take a jumper wire and stretch it from the rem connector on the power plug and tie it to the orange/red wire on your cig lighter on the one taped up on the headlamp harness.  Now when you turn your ignition on, the amp will come on instead of waiting for the inputs to sense voltage.

Let me know if the pop stops.

[Blowby]

Using your suggestion the amp will turn on but when I turn the ignition off to hear the pop the stereo, amp and the speedometer light stays on.

[UltraNutZ]

Ok so apparently cranking up the required V to turn the amp on via the speaker inputs doesn't shut it off altogether.  When the auto turn on is functioning, the REM on the RF amp is turned into a REM out to feed other amps you may have.  So what it's doing is feeding power back into your electrical system.  Go ahead and disconnect the REM wire.

[Blowby]

Added a third layer of polyfill around the speakers. Will try it out as soon as the snow melts, maybe this weekend 

[hdrolling]

Careful, more polyfill is not always better.

[Blowby]

I only had 2 thin layers and rode with it for a bit, now trying 3 layers to see if any improvement is to be had.

[joebags]

so were you and UN able to resolve the popping issue

[Blowby]

You know I completely forgot about it. I'm out having an iced tea with the wife so I'll check when we get back on the bike.

[Blowby]

Yep, still pops when I turn the ignition off. Putting in a new HU tomorrow so maybe this will go away. I'm using RCA with the new 5v output so this might affect the power down on the speakers.

[Blowby]

Biketronics BT1005x and their Sony MEX-GS810BH stereo is in. No more popping when ignition is turned to the off position. I first tested it with the high level connection I was using on the OEM stereo. No pop so I switched over to low level and still good to go.  Just need to pick up some short RCA cables and the fairing goes back on.

[ΚĜΗΟŜΤ]

Yep, still pops when I turn the ignition off. Putting in a new HU tomorrow so maybe this will go away. I'm using RCA with the new 5v output so this might affect the power down on the speakers.

I use a adjustable (thru software) 0-5 volt preamp out JVC KD-A95BT head unit also. Not for my bike but for my boat. Very nice option for anyone seeking more and louder sound!!

If yours is anything like mine this pre amp gain does not work when using the Am/FM radio. it only works with CD/USB/AUX.
I guess the possibility of static reeking havoc with the speakers they don't allow the broadcast selection to be amplified by the software....