XR1200 - who owns one and do you like it?

[sfmichael]

Been thinking about building a hopped-up Sporty but then figured maybe one of these may be a better bet?
By the time the motor is upgraded and add some chassis bits, I'd likely be at the 8-10 grand price range these are bringing. 

[Powerglides]

I owned one for 5 years. Only sold it to help finance my new bike.
In a word, stunning.
I would argue that it's the best air cooled engine H-D have built.
Twin 4 pot Nissin calipers on the front means it stops!
1.5 diameter crankpin (versus 1.25 on the Sporties).
Oil cooled heads.
It handles better than an FXR.
The Suspension on the X is far more compliant, so it's worth paying the extra.
Very tuneable, but only cams available are welded and reground Red Shifts. Opinions vary, but I had good luck with the 575 grind in a 1250.
Gearing is same as 883, so it feels a bit strange at first, but even stock, it makes power close to the 6800 red line, and loves to rev.
08 up Buell XB12 crank sprocket and primary chain is a straight swap, and drops rpm 500 in 5th.
Good choice of sticky rubber available. Even the stock Dunlops work well in the wet.
They are grossly under priced at the moment.
Hammer has a good choice of 1250 kits and porting options.
Stock cams are quite noisey, so don't be put off thinking something's wrong if you get to try one.

[akjeff]

Been thinking about building a hopped-up Sporty but then figured maybe one of these may be a better bet?
By the time the motor is upgraded and add some chassis bits, I'd likely be at the 8-10 grand price range these are bringing. 

Pondered that very thing myself, and in the midst of hopping up a 1991 883. There's a considerable weight gain that came with the rubber mount chassis that turns me off. Would love to have the XR motor in my rigid mount frame! You are correct on the money thing. By the time you upgrade motor,brakes,suspension,wheels etc..., you could easily buy an XR1200 on the used market for far less money.

Jeff

[sfmichael]

I owned one for 5 years. Only sold it to help finance my new bike.
In a word, stunning.
I would argue that it's the best air cooled engine H-D have built.
Twin 4 pot Nissin calipers on the front means it stops!
1.5 diameter crankpin (versus 1.25 on the Sporties).
Oil cooled heads.
It handles better than an FXR.
The Suspension on the X is far more compliant, so it's worth paying the extra.
Very tuneable, but only cams available are welded and reground Red Shifts. Opinions vary, but I had good luck with the 575 grind in a 1250.
Gearing is same as 883, so it feels a bit strange at first, but even stock, it makes power close to the 6800 red line, and loves to rev.
08 up Buell XB12 crank sprocket and primary chain is a straight swap, and drops rpm 500 in 5th.
Good choice of sticky rubber available. Even the stock Dunlops work well in the wet.
They are grossly under priced at the moment.
Hammer has a good choice of 1250 kits and porting options.
Stock cams are quite noisey, so don't be put off thinking something's wrong if you get to try one.

Any years better than others?
Was the "X" option available on all years of production?
How would the 575 cam work in an otherwise stock motor?

[Powerglides]

2008 and 2009 are the regular XR1200. Black crankcases, but silver heads, barrels, and covers. Rear shocks are the usual over sprung/under damped H-D rubbish. Upside down front end looks trick, but is actually quite basic and very firm. Handles very well, but not brilliant ride quality.
XR1200X replaced it for 2010. Motor is all black, piggyback rear shocks with adjustable damping, and redesigned front forks have adjustable preload, compression and rebound damping. Different front discs, and wheels have a red stripe around the rims. Way better ride quality.
Cam change is a PITA because of all the oil pipes. I wouldn't bother unless part of a higher performance upgrade. Stock XR cams aren't bad, and will tolerate a decent compression bump. Comp ratio is 10-1 but CCP is only 175psi. Regular XL1200 is around 9.6 with 220psi CCP.
They are very sensitive to exhaust system choice, and aren't tolerant of sloppy tuning, particularly at lower rpm. Having said that, they respond very well to the right parts combination and the tune dials in pretty easy.
Even the 575 cams need 2 of the lobes clearanced to clear the main bearing, as well as the lifter housings clearanced. All the other cams (600 + lift) need the Anti Rotation Devices modified to prevent the tops of the lifters crashing into them.
I've played around with about 30 of them now (probably only 500 in the UK, best we can tell) including 3 race bikes.
The Sportsters put on about 60lb when they went rubbermount in 2004, but it's worth it for the comfort on a longer ride. You can shave this weight penalty back off with light weight wheels, exhaust and tail section. They'll still red line in top gear (even stock) at 124 mph.
Don't think of these as a regular laid back chrome and tassles H-D. If you like looning around and riding hard, they're rather good.
If you get one, post up here and I'll share what I've learnt.

[sfmichael]

thanks so much 

[XRMark]

Get one if you can. I've had mine for 5 years and love it. +1 on everything Boz said. A pipe and a tune will have you at 90hp at the rear wheel. You spend more to get that out of an XL and then you add in the suspension and brake upgrades. Check out the XR1200 Owners Group Form

[sfmichael]

thanks a bunch Boz and Mark  ...been looking around. Found a couple with less than 1K miles but don't want to pay new price. Hoping to find one under 5K miles for around 8 grand

[Buglet]

  I have one and like it, but I still think its to heavy and big for with it is. I like my S1 alot better and does can be pick up cheap. What pipe did you use to get 90 hp. and what did it do to your mid range.

[XRMark]

I have a D&D Bobcat 2 into 1,K&N air filter and a PCV with a custom map. I'm getting between 87-89hp and 76-78 ft/lbs. Strong midrange. the pipe works well, but I'm not happy with D&D's build quality. the rivets on the muffler have come lose once. D&D replaced the muffler(great customer service) but they're coming lose again on the replacement. I'll be replacing it with a Bassani Road Rage 2 into 1.

[TrevorAtJames]

There is something to be said about even a stock XR, how many of us truly get the most out of our motorcycles?  I know I ride agressively , but even I know I'm nowhere near to top of the XR's potential...I've scraped the cans on a sweeper..I've come barreling out of the corner front wheel lifting off the ground and yet a part of me still knows there is more and I just don't have the guts to seek it out. The XR is fantastic. ride comfortably to your favorite winding road , hit it hard and ride comfortably back... more than I can ask for from my sport bike. in short. yes, buy an XR , you wont regret it

[sfmichael]

thanks for all the input - got lucky and found one right here in my hometown

I'm hoping to make a deal on it, waiting to go check it out this weekend 

[sfmichael]

do these bike need anything to unleash their full potential other than a tune?

meaning will an exhaust, tune, etc make night and day improvement?

might keep it stock (other than the gearing swap - that seems like a no-brainer) unless big power increases can be made 

[Powerglides]

The correct exhaust and airbox makes a substantial improvement to the shape of the torque curve, as well as the numbers.

[sfmichael]

The correct exhaust and airbox makes a substantial improvement to the shape of the torque curve, as well as the numbers.

Vance & Hines seems to be the most popular aftermarket exhaust over here, is that one of the best?
And what airbox would you recommend...and then I suppose a dyno tune is in order? If so, what tuning system do you prefer?
I really appreciate everyone's input 

[Powerglides]

The best overall power comes from the Twin Motorcycles Torque Hammer II. It's especially good at lower rpm and a light throttle as well. Neither is it stupid loud. It's driveability benefits are even more noticeable with the Buell primary gearing modification.
Vance and Hines Widows are very slightly stronger in the mid range, but steal it from the bottom and top. V&H is out of production. There were three versions, Black coated mild steel, which goes rotten really quick, stainless version, and the stainless race system which was configured differently.
Stay away from any of the systems with the oversized headers, kills the mid range, although creative baffle modification and ignition timing tweeks can reduce the negative effect. The race bikes over here used the Termignoni and Harris 2-2. They were expensive, broke often, and are weak in the mid range.
Supertrapp 2-2 doesn't reach it's expectations and kills ground clearance, but it's very durable.
Worse pipe was the Remus, but it was initially popular due to the hype.
I have no experience with the Bassani or D&D, so can't comment.
Some owners have had good results with hybrid systems using a brand X header and a brand Y muffler, but it's a lot of experimenting and dyno time, and it doesn't always work.
Airbox wants a K&N filter, not a foam one. Or use the Twin Motorcycles HPA in conjunction with their exhaust, or the Free Spirits Blackhorn with any decent exhaust.
Route the breathers to atmosphere or a catch can. By H-D standards, this is a high rpm motor, and the oil carryover, whilst still not excessive, can gum up the IAC on higher mileage engines, or those that often explore the high rpm power potential.
The XR has quite a bit of cam, and as such is not tolerant of sloppy tuning, particularly at lower rpm.
I use Direct Link, but the "best" tuner is always the one that the tuner is most comfortable with. It's only a tool.
If you buy the XR, PM me with your e-mail address, and I'll send you some pdfs of magazine articles I wrote about some testing I did .

[sfmichael]

thank you so much - extremely helpful 

[aswracing]

Here are some charts you might find interesting, to show what can be done with engine kits and head work and cams:






(Powerglides built and tuned this one)



More than this can be made I'm sure. Limitations on cam selection have really been an obstacle for us. However, we think we have that solved, for future projects. In fact there's a customer build in process with our new idea. Hopefully we'll get some results.

[sfmichael]

Wow....that's great power from a 1200 HD motor   

Small or Large Fortune required?   

[sfmichael]

Boz...the bike I'm looking at is super low miles but the catch here is that is has been raced in the Vance & Hines XR1200 Race Series.
So the upside is the bike has less than 600 miles on it...the obvious downside is that it has had the sh*t run out of it.
What are your thoughts? I can buy it for under 8 grand but worry that is has been beat on pretty hard. Can you think of anything to check / look for, or maybe just pass it by?

[Powerglides]

One careful owner then?
Difficult to tell, as there's two ways of looking at this.
If it had had some sort of initial break in, warm up laps before each race and practice session, and proper maintenance, then I wouldn't be too concerned.
Any premature engine wear is likely to be limited to pistons/rings/ cylinder bore distortion. Compression test would be a useful indicator. The XRs are fairly consistent at around 175psi. Oil consumption isn't necessarily an indicator, as some seem to breathe heavy until around 8k miles. If it visibly burns oil though, by smoking from the exhaust, then there is a problem.
One of the race bikes I did ran for two seasons, and had four different riders. Calculating mileage from the number of documented practice and race laps (and knowing the circuit lengths) equated to close on 2k miles. It started to smoke during the penultimate race of the last season. I went inside it, changed the rings, stem seals, valve springs and collars, and glaze busted the bores. Valve and guide wear was surprisingly low, but there was a little cylinder distortion and the piston skirts were under size, but not scuffed or worn . Actual clearance was .004", but it didn't make sense to replace the pistons with only one race left and no time for a proper break in. Impressed the hell out of me.
Is it's race history documented? Has it still got the race kit fitted? Suspension tweeks, Ohlins, polybush engine mounts, V&H exhaust, lightweight wheels, race version of V&H fuelpack? Possibly a slipper clutch?
The picture at the end of post 4 shows four XRs outside my workshop. The one on the left is actually the bike that Jeremy McWilliams rode during the last race of the first season when he won the championship (he had two bikes). It was put back on the road and sold to one of my customers. I changed the exhaust and airbox, and tuned it. He then toured the UK on it, riding, literally, from one end of the country to the other with zero issues.

[sfmichael]

One careful owner then?
Difficult to tell, as there's two ways of looking at this.
If it had had some sort of initial break in, warm up laps before each race and practice session, and proper maintenance, then I wouldn't be too concerned.
Any premature engine wear is likely to be limited to pistons/rings/ cylinder bore distortion. Compression test would be a useful indicator. The XRs are fairly consistent at around 175psi. Oil consumption isn't necessarily an indicator, as some seem to breathe heavy until around 8k miles. If it visibly burns oil though, by smoking from the exhaust, then there is a problem.
One of the race bikes I did ran for two seasons, and had four different riders. Calculating mileage from the number of documented practice and race laps (and knowing the circuit lengths) equated to close on 2k miles. It started to smoke during the penultimate race of the last season. I went inside it, changed the rings, stem seals, valve springs and collars, and glaze busted the bores. Valve and guide wear was surprisingly low, but there was a little cylinder distortion and the piston skirts were under size, but not scuffed or worn . Actual clearance was .004", but it didn't make sense to replace the pistons with only one race left and no time for a proper break in. Impressed the hell out of me.
Is it's race history documented? Has it still got the race kit fitted? Suspension tweeks, Ohlins, polybush engine mounts, V&H exhaust, lightweight wheels, race version of V&H fuelpack? Possibly a slipper clutch?

I wish - no, he's converted completely back to stock. It looks great but obviously looks can be deceiving. He's a professional bike racer and so I'm not sure how much he knows from a mechanical standpoint as I'm sure he had other people to wrench on and maintain the bike.
It's cold and a little snowy here this weekend so i was unable to ride it - not that I would know what to look/feel for anyway. I have no experience with a bike like this. I think I might be able to buy it for 7-ish and have thought about just biting the bullet and taking the plunge.   

[Powerglides]

Is it the X model? Are the tyres the OEM Dunlops with no wear? (they are actually a very good tyre).

[sfmichael]

Is it the X model? Are the tyres the OEM Dunlops with no wear? (they are actually a very good tyre).

Yes, I've only considered X models since you brought me up to speed on the differences. This bike is a 2011 model. Bike looks totally stock and tires have good tread, I didn't look to see the brand/type. I may go look at it again today - it was after sundown went I went this evening for the first time. I hope to ride it later this week when the weather improves. It's on eBay now so I hope it doesn't sell.

[Powerglides]

Do you have a link?