Curious about TTS CLBs...

[FLTRI]

I have input from a few other dyno owners and would like to compare their sensor maintenance schedules against his. Just working on another future post in regards to the 'junk' Bosch sensors. BTY, do you own a dyno table? and is your reply in reference to your hands on experience?

thanks,

sportygordy

We go through between 8-12 sensors a year due to the volume of tunes we do. We check the tuning sensor against a known calibration sensor almost daily and especially if a tune is not behaving as expected and have found sensors to start skewing without notice and especially after using them in exhaust pipes for extended tune periods. For those applications we replace the sensors more than I'd like but sometime tuning by swapping sensors in the pipe is virtually the only way to get good readings due to the exhaust systems restrictions as with the new touring bikes.
We also never use leaded gas with O2 sensors as that kills them very quickly.
Bob
PS - Not sure why you call them "junk" sensors. They work just fine when monitored and replaced as needed in the vacuum pump because it is not subjected to the high vibration and EGT as when installed into the pipe right outside the exhaust port.
FLTRI/Bob

[ToBeFrank]

Any of you guys use copper heat sinks with the widebands?

[Steve Cole]

One thing for those of your trying to make your own with the copper tube method is to make sure if you solder the copper tubing together is you have to use lead free solder. When using the cheap wide band sensor (not junk) we have seen sensors die in as little as 2- 3 hours of use in road racing conditions and in drag racing conditions they are used about 12 seconds at a time and the readings drift off too far about every 30 - 40 passes. This is all on unleaded racing gasoline only.

[Steve Cole]

So now that it's said and done what I hope is that people have learned something. The Bosch cheap wide band sensors work just as the manufacture says they will and are far from Junk, when you do what the manufacture tells you to do! Most of all the aftermarket is not doing what the manufacture spells out and that causes most of the issues with the sensors not reading correctly across the AFR range. There is only one company that I know of that follows the manufacture specification by measuring pressure and temperature along with the AFR so you get the right reading in all cases, not just on the bench or in open air. That company has been making lab level measuring equipment for years and followed what Bosch spelled out in there technical documents. There name is ECM  http://www.ecm-co.com/category.asp?afra They make many levels of quality systems from the cheap to the expensive!

When in an environment like a HD in the head pipe close to the exhaust port the sensors do not hold up well for the reasons that have been shown through out this post and I'm not the only one who has seen the issues. Other have stepped up and shared the same issues as I have spelled out. We learned the hard way just like the others have, and we are sharing this information so others do not have to go through the same things as we have. If you want your reading to be correct using these sensors the measuring equipment must measure Pressure, Temperature and AFR to get the specifications the manufacture spells out, if they do not then do not expect them to be accurate.

[sportygordy]

I have input from a few other dyno owners and would like to compare their sensor maintenance schedules against his. Just working on another future post in regards to the 'junk' Bosch sensors. BTY, do you own a dyno table? and is your reply in reference to your hands on experience?

thanks,

sportygordy

PS - Not sure why you call them "junk" sensors. They work just fine when monitored and replaced as needed in the vacuum pump because it is not subjected to the high vibration and EGT as when installed into the pipe right outside the exhaust port.
FLTRI/Bob

Bob,, I'm not calling the Bosch wide bands "junk" I'm just being sarcastic upon someone else that has habits of referring to them as 'Junk"  I personally have very good luck with them and i follow the maintenance issues with their use as most individuals using them do. BTW, Im trying to find your phone number to pass on to a friend, Wayne, that wants to contact you for a tune appointment on his 06 FXSTC with SERT. Can you PM your contact info, thanks

[Steve Cole]

I have input from a few other dyno owners and would like to compare their sensor maintenance schedules against his. Just working on another future post in regards to the 'junk' Bosch sensors. BTY, do you own a dyno table? and is your reply in reference to your hands on experience?

thanks,

sportygordy

PS - Not sure why you call them "junk" sensors. They work just fine when monitored and replaced as needed in the vacuum pump because it is not subjected to the high vibration and EGT as when installed into the pipe right outside the exhaust port.
FLTRI/Bob

Bob,, I'm not calling the Bosch wide bands "junk" I'm just being sarcastic upon someone else that has habits of referring to them as 'Junk"  I personally have very good luck with them and i follow the maintenance issues with their use as most individuals using them do. BTW, Im trying to find your phone number to pass on to a friend, Wayne, that wants to contact you for a tune appointment on his 06 FXSTC with SERT. Can you PM your contact info, thanks

Are you for real? You are the one of the first that said there was no such issues. Now you claim there is............... glad you've learned something!

[sportygordy]

I have input from a few other dyno owners and would like to compare their sensor maintenance schedules against his. Just working on another future post in regards to the 'junk' Bosch sensors. BTY, do you own a dyno table? and is your reply in reference to your hands on experience?

thanks,

sportygordy

PS - Not sure why you call them "junk" sensors. They work just fine when monitored and replaced as needed in the vacuum pump because it is not subjected to the high vibration and EGT as when installed into the pipe right outside the exhaust port.
FLTRI/Bob

Bob,, I'm not calling the Bosch wide bands "junk" I'm just being sarcastic upon someone else that has habits of referring to them as 'Junk"  I personally have very good luck with them and i follow the maintenance issues with their use as most individuals using them do. BTW, Im trying to find your phone number to pass on to a friend, Wayne, that wants to contact you for a tune appointment on his 06 FXSTC with SERT. Can you PM your contact info, thanks

Are you for real? You are the one of the first that said there was no such issues. Now you claim there is............... glad you've learned something!

There you go with your 'bad' comperhension habits... Yup, i am the one that said there was no such issues with Bosch wide band sensors, and i still clam i have no such issues. Not sure where our how you feel i have issues with the Bosch sensors other then being sarcastic with your comments...     

[Sailor285]

Tre'_09UC...not Philmcc...was just using his laptop.. I have an 08 RG with fulsac tru duals..Bassani slip on's a K&N stock replacement filer with more holes added to the A/C housing and an Andrews 26H cam...I was getting good milage when it was stock also! I don't hammer it a lot which I'm sure helps...When you get a finneshed map you can the adj ur tables at WOT..looking at what you have then extending it out accordingly...If you set ur timing tables using the data mode ..then after u get those dailed in , then do another tune...This software works great and is just a matter of understanding it and a little time on the road collecting data.....Hope this helps.....Dan

[Scramjet]

Bill,

Here are two more data points regarding your original post.  We did 190 miles of country highway, batwing baggers, riding solo, about 45-65 MPH of fairly easy riding with air temps at just above 80*F:

1. 2007 FLHTC, 103 bb, SE251 cam, stock heads, Jackpot slip-ons, TTS CLB's at 739 = 38.6 MPG

2. 2007 FLHX, 107bb, TR590 cam, RevPerf heads, D&D exhaust, TTS CLB's at 739 = 42.9 MPG

They both could have been higher if we were at constant speed on the interstate doing the entrance ramp to exit ramp thing.  Just average cruising.  We will get some dyno pulls next week.

B

[Blackbaggr]

Thanks Scramjet...

...I think I was a bit too far into the throttle with the new cams. I have taking some mileage samples riding much more conservatively and found myself at 38 and 39 mpg. I also just retuned using the new PZ176 calibration and used 739 for my CLBs so...time will tell. The AFR and timing have changed.