Newest Comp Version

[rbabos]

Here's the latest and greatest.
Ron

[koko3052]

no problems yet!

[rbabos]

no problems yet!

Nope but they are getting better at it . I suspect a better lead in profile for ramping , which was questionable on all previous versions. As always, time will tell.
Ron

[OldFLTRider]

Hope it retrofits.

[rbabos]

Hope it retrofits.

If there's money to be made, it will be designed to fit.
Ron

[koko3052]

Hmmm, news release says driveline completely different.

[misfitJason]

Looks like it's still going to be a problem

[FSG]

[FSG]

Hope it retrofits.

[kd]

  Now that wouldn't be another stolen upgrade idea would it. 

[rbabos]

  Looks like they liked the Compensaver thrust washer as well as the original oiling methods to replace that wafer bearing.
Ron

[rbabos]

  Now that wouldn't be another stolen upgrade idea would it. 

Ya think?  Thanks for noticing. On another note, viewing their patent application the new ramping on the spokes looks much better then anything in the past.
Ron

[BUBBIE]

 

Snip from Ron...

  Looks like they liked the Compensaver thrust washer as well as the original oiling methods to replace that wafer bearing. 

I liked your n GMR's  thrust washer MUCH better than the roller bearing one that I would OVER Torque and smash the ability of Movement... That Roller wafer Washer, to me, was Not what needed to be there...

signed....BUBBIE

[Just Nick]

The new comp is not available with out a e-service ticket and the part number is 40100076 according to the parts book and one of my local dealers 

[rbabos]

The new comp is not available with out a e-service ticket and the part number is 40100076 according to the parts book and one of my local dealers

What does that mean exactly? I take it an individual can't buy one over the counter, only in dealer access for shop work?
Ron

[Hawg_Heaven]

That PN 40100076 is listed on Surdyke for 190 and some change.

[Just Nick]

they can not sell it from what my dealer says.

A e-service ticket is a warranty deal only available for warranty repair not sold over the counter at least that is what it was when I was in dealer 12 years ago. it is most likely because they are guarding it and know no one needs one yet as no bikes have been sold at this point it will be available some day but mother ship does not feel it needs to be now. The e service ticket warranty items means that they will send you a new one once they receive the part you are replacing it with so in other words the dealer does not get to keep the part they have to send it before one will be sent out that way the engineers will have it in hand to see what went wrong so they can fix issues before they become real big issues like the last 7 comps from moco   

[rbabos]

they can not sell it from what my dealer says.

A e-service ticket is a warranty deal only available for warranty repair not sold over the counter at least that is what it was when I was in dealer 12 years ago. it is most likely because they are guarding it and know no one needs one yet as no bikes have been sold at this point it will be available some day but mother ship does not feel it needs to be now. The e service ticket warranty items means that they will send you a new one once they receive the part you are replacing it with so in other words the dealer does not get to keep the part they have to send it before one will be sent out that way the engineers will have it in hand to see what went wrong so they can fix issues before they become real big issues like the last 7 comps from moco   

That would make sense. Also points to it not being retrofit then. In the past, like the 2014 comps, they could be had almost right away for 07 and up.
Ron

[BVHOG]

It could also mean they are not sure they are going to work so they don't want the failed ones around for people to see. Once again we are new model Beta testers

[rbabos]

It could also mean they are not sure they are going to work so they don't want the failed ones around for people to see. Once again we are new model Beta testers

I'm sure you are right on the beta tester part. Lots of new stuff, not just the comp. Me, I'm no playing that game again.
Ron

[DrumRunner]

They also maybe doing it to sell the current inventory of 14-16 se comps.

[kd]

They also maybe doing it to sell the current inventory of 14-16 se comps.

Now that's more believable.

[sfmichael]

It could also mean they are not sure they are going to work so they don't want the failed ones around for people to see. Once again we are new model Beta testers

I'm sure you are right on the beta tester part. Lots of new stuff, not just the comp. Me, I'm no playing that game again.
Ron

I'll be keeping my bike a few more years

[rbabos]

This new comp assy has the spring pack in reverse and the extension shaft has a lip for the first small spring. Largest spring against the cam now.
Ron

[Reddog74usa]

Enough is enough. Why not go back to the type of comp that worked great forever? Oh, that's right, we are forced to use this type because the cranks need it 

[rbabos]

Enough is enough. Why not go back to the type of comp that worked great forever? Oh, that's right, we are forced to use this type because the cranks need it 

They tried that early on. It didn't work out with the new primary ratios. Larger sprocket needed stiffer springs to keep the rotational cushioining range to a usable state. A classic example of them not following this rule is the first 07 comps that ran up to 2011 I think. Then they clued into the springs. Enter the SE versions. Sure , saving cranks was part of the goal as well.
Ron

[Roadraceking]

Anybody still running the old style comp with an extra washer?

[Richard K]

We have the info we need. This new comp is only for the 2017 and forward. Note that this newest latest greatest assembly still is not match machined on the contact sliding surfaces now add the fact that this offers no improvement to cam/spoke lubrication we will continue to see early failures. Sorry but that has been proven time and again. From what I can tell they may have reduced noise by going back to composite washer and reconfiguring cam and ramp. We will see as we can get real world miles on them.
The MoCo did sell down their stock. Shelves were empty for many weeks. Best guess is they considered a retro version but as was stated want to see proven with real world miles. Time will tell.
We have held fast to the roller thrust being a crap idea and here we are back to the composite washer.
The dealers I associate with very recently received stock of the 64A. I picked one up and verified nothing has changed. Add to this re-release of the 64A and the licensing of aftermarket production and sales, again best guess the MoCo is looking to put the Twin Cam comps in the rearview mirror like with the comps on the 06 and back. They know the aftermarket will cover that market and they can move forward to more profitable ventures.
I have to say this new engine has many concerns for me. It will be interesting to follow what develops.
Richard

[BUBBIE]

Anybody still running the old style comp with an extra washer?

I Think you are talking about the Style Original on my 09 King?

TweekMyTwin Jim was one I remember about the added spring...

I have the SE08A with over 60,000 miles on it and Still working Great...  (grooved for oil to enter) 

signed....BUBBIE

[BUBBIE]

 

Read that WASHER n put in Spring.... The Stack height was measured Then added a shim washer if Necessary (memory) .030?

Maybe Ron will correct me here...

signed....BUBBIE

[N-gin]

So is this new comp a rampage ramp?
Looks like

[kristian]

they included liquimoly lube as the gold standard in the primary!  smooooth as silk

[FSG]

be interesting to see the other side of the sprocket spokes

[N-gin]

Sorry meant ramp to ramp.

[PoorUB]

be interesting to see the other side of the sprocket spokes

I was wondering the same. You don't suppose HD put a bit more "meat" in that area to get a bit more wear surface?

[FSG]

I do.

[rbabos]

be interesting to see the other side of the sprocket spokes

I was wondering the same. You don't suppose HD put a bit more "meat" in that area to get a bit more wear surface?

Based on the patent app pic, it has an actual lead in profile for the cam and a tad less back and forward rotational slop between ramps. Mind you,  patent item drawings are somewhat cartoonish but so were the  08A and 14 comp sprockets but represented the profiles fairly close to actual. Is it better? That will come out over time.
Ron
Ron

[a2wheeler]

Seems odd they would remove the oil tray from the primary cover. Instead they mounted a mass damper for sound reduction - which may be in the way for aftermarket solutions to poor lubrication.

[rbabos]

Seems odd they would remove the oil tray from the primary cover. Instead they mounted a mass damper for sound reduction - which may be in the way for aftermarket solutions to poor lubrication.

The oil tray wasn't an HD part to start with. It was aftermarket.
Ron

[LC110]

Unless the parts fiche is wrong. (which it could be) the spring pack for the 107 is the same part number as the old (83936-09A)
The one listed for the 114 is (40100075) but they both have the same part number for the Comp Assy (40100076)

http://www.stcharlesharleydavidson.com/oempartfinder.htm#/Harley-Davidson%c2%ae/FLHXSE_1PXF_CVO_STREET_GLIDE_(2017)/BELT%2c_CHAIN_%26_SPROCKETS/1PXF%2f%2f2017/FLHXSE_1PXF_CVO_STREET_GLIDE_(2017)%2f%2fBELT%2c_CHAIN_%26
http://www.stcharlesharleydavidson.com/oempartfinder.htm#/Harley-Davidson%c2%ae/FLHXS_1KRC_STREET_GLIDE_SPECIAL_(2017)/BELT%2c_CHAINS_AND_SPROCKETS/1KRC%2f%2f2017/FLHXS_1KRC_STREET_GLIDE_SPECIAL_(2017)%2f%2fBELT%2c_CHAIN

[rbabos]

Unless the parts fiche is wrong. (which it could be) the spring pack for the 107 is the same part number as the old (83936-09A)
The one listed for the 114 is (40100075) but they both have the same part number for the Comp Assy (40100076)

http://www.stcharlesharleydavidson.com/oempartfinder.htm#/Harley-Davidson%c2%ae/FLHXSE_1PXF_CVO_STREET_GLIDE_(2017)/BELT%2c_CHAIN_%26_SPROCKETS/1PXF%2f%2f2017/FLHXSE_1PXF_CVO_STREET_GLIDE_(2017)%2f%2fBELT%2c_CHAIN_%26
http://www.stcharlesharleydavidson.com/oempartfinder.htm#/Harley-Davidson%c2%ae/FLHXS_1KRC_STREET_GLIDE_SPECIAL_(2017)/BELT%2c_CHAINS_AND_SPROCKETS/1KRC%2f%2f2017/FLHXS_1KRC_STREET_GLIDE_SPECIAL_(2017)%2f%2fBELT%2c_CHAIN

Looks like but installed in reverse order.
Ron

[Roadraceking]

Read that WASHER n put in Spring.... The Stack height was measured Then added a shim washer if Necessary (memory) .030?

Maybe Ron will correct me here...

signed....BUBBIE

No Bubbie,you had it right the 1st time,I said washer,but I really meant spring.Seemed like that worked pretty good,except you would need a junk comp to get the extra spring out of.

[LC110]

Looks like but installed in reverse order.
Ron

Not understanding what you mean by this. The spring pack looks to be installed the same way as it is on the pre 2017 SE comp. 

[rbabos]

Looks like but installed in reverse order.
Ron

Not understanding what you mean by this. The spring pack looks to be installed the same way as it is on the pre 2017 SE comp. 

Not according to the patent app. Smallest spring is against a lip on the extension shaft and largest spring is against the cam face. Same spring layout, just reversed. You might be looking at some generic pic.
Ron

[OldFLTRider]

The cutaway of the M8 shows the spring pack installed normally.

[rbabos]

The cutaway of the M8 shows the spring pack installed normally.

Entirely possible, however, here's how it's pictured in the patent application. Was it intentional or a mistake?
Ron

[OldFLTRider]

http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/sites/motorcyclistonline.com/files/styles/large_1x_/public/images/2016/08/bjn37706.jpg?itok=8y-N7Ucc

Hope it's ok to post this link. If not, maybe someone can figure out how to post the picture.

[rbabos]

http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/sites/motorcyclistonline.com/files/styles/large_1x_/public/images/2016/08/bjn37706.jpg?itok=8y-N7Ucc

Hope it's ok to post this link. If not, maybe someone can figure out how to post the picture.

I'm aware of that pic. It really is a piss poor view on which way the spring pack is located. I doubt HD would file a patent with the springs mistakingly installed backwards since the two previous comp patents had them the other way. There is also a technical reason to run the heavier spring against the cam.
Ron

[Templer]

"they included liquimoly lube as the gold standard in the primary"! part # please!! YOU must mean the same old HD dyno oil (+) with the NEW STICKER on the outside!!

[Templer]

I hear the new primary has magic syn sawdust fluid in the whole motor. Quiet! Quiet!! Quiet!!! 
Note: works with ALL makes and models in rear ends,transmissions,blocks, and several other drive ailments: colds, cough.
Guaranteed to lighten you wallet!!!!

[LC110]

Has anyone had the opportunity to take one apart and get a real look at it?

[OldFLTRider]

Took a good CLOSE look at the comp in the cutaway M8 on display at Bike, Blues, and BBQ when I demoed a 2017.  The springs are oriented the same way they have been with the Twim Cam.  The one I rode had very little audible comp noise. 

[jmorton10]

http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/sites/motorcyclistonline.com/files/styles/large_1x_/public/images/2016/08/bjn37706.jpg?itok=8y-N7Ucc

Hope it's ok to post this link. If not, maybe someone can figure out how to post the picture.

[Jako1]

The whole primary is new including the clutch, The Triglide has 9 plates the Freewheeler has 8, The actuator is all new as is the primary cover
At least 1 1/2 inches narrower
and shifts like a Honda
I will be drilling the shifter shaft for a grease zerk in the morning, like the factory used to

[Smarty]

Read that WASHER n put in Spring.... The Stack height was measured Then added a shim washer if Necessary (memory) .030?

Maybe Ron will correct me here...

signed....BUBBIE

No Bubbie,you had it right the 1st time,I said washer,but I really meant spring.Seemed like that worked pretty good,except you would need a junk comp to get the extra spring out of.

We have added one of the middle size spring washer to several bikes with good success. Two of them have over 17,000 miles on them now with no noise coming from the comp. We just installed one in a 16 Rushmore bike with the extra washer facing the same way as the one it is up against. Looks like it spends more time more toward the center of the ramp and not as much on the tip of the ramp.

[LC110]

Anyone have a new service manual for the M8? Would like to know what the torque on the bolt is with the new washer.
The PEEK washer is thin about half the width of the old bearing and washer set up.

[rbabos]

Anyone have a new service manual for the M8? Would like to know what the torque on the bolt is with the new washer.
The PEEK washer is thin about half the width of the old bearing and washer set up.

Washer has nothing to do with torque as it isn't under any pressure but what the springs provide under cam ramping. How do you know that material is PEEK? We used it but as much as HD likes copying what we have done,  I'm sure they came up with their own different brand of plastic.
Ron

[Admiral Akbar]

Anyone have a new service manual for the M8? Would like to know what the torque on the bolt is with the new washer.
The PEEK washer is thin about half the width of the old bearing and washer set up.

Washer has nothing to do with torque as it isn't under any pressure but what the springs provide under cam ramping. How do you know that material is PEEK? We used it but as much as HD likes copying what we have done,  I'm sure they came up with their own different brand of plastic.
Ron

I surely wish you knew what you are talking about..

[LC110]

Ron your right I don't know if it is PEEK  or not. It was my assumption it was.
I happen to have a couple of them.
Just thinking of using them in place of the current washers and bearing setup.

[rbabos]

Anyone have a new service manual for the M8? Would like to know what the torque on the bolt is with the new washer.
The PEEK washer is thin about half the width of the old bearing and washer set up.

Washer has nothing to do with torque as it isn't under any pressure but what the springs provide under cam ramping. How do you know that material is PEEK? We used it but as much as HD likes copying what we have done,  I'm sure they came up with their own different brand of plastic.
Ron

I surely wish you knew what you are talking about..

Nothing has changed, has it? Still pissy about Compensaver huh? Get over it.
Ron

[les]

Anyone have a new service manual for the M8? Would like to know what the torque on the bolt is with the new washer.
The PEEK washer is thin about half the width of the old bearing and washer set up.

If you're talking about the compensating sprocket bolt:

- Tighten bolt to 100 ft-lbs
- Loosen one half turn
- Final tighten to 175 ft-lbs

This, of course, assumes you're using a brand new bolt.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[FSG]

and if your using a new screw/bolt I'd be removing the dry locking patch that's on it and using loctite

[les]

and if your using a new screw/bolt I'd be removing the dry locking patch that's on it and using loctite

Have you had bad luck with the dry patch?  I've done a bunch, and my experience is that patch holds as tight as concrete. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[FSG]

and my experience is that patch holds as tight as concrete. 

it does that alright     ,  but I remove the patch on all new fasteners preferring loctite as the patch can distort torque readings

[hogpipes1]

The whole primary is new including the clutch, The Triglide has 9 plates the Freewheeler has 8, The actuator is all new as is the primary cover
At least 1 1/2 inches narrower
and shifts like a Honda
I will be drilling the shifter shaft for a grease zerk in the morning, like the factory used to

Better be careful you might void the bike warranty. 

[sbeamer]

Read that WASHER n put in Spring.... The Stack height was measured Then added a shim washer if Necessary (memory) .030?

Maybe Ron will correct me here...

signed....BUBBIE

No Bubbie,you had it right the 1st time,I said washer,but I really meant spring.Seemed like that worked pretty good,except you would need a junk comp to get the extra spring out of.

We have added one of the middle size spring washer to several bikes with good success. Two of them have over 17,000 miles on them now with no noise coming from the comp. We just installed one in a 16 Rushmore bike with the extra washer facing the same way as the one it is up against. Looks like it spends more time more toward the center of the ramp and not as much on the tip of the ramp.

Where did you get the spring washer,(aka belleville) from?  Not sure about the spelling

[Smarty]

Read that WASHER n put in Spring.... The Stack height was measured Then added a shim washer if Necessary (memory) .030?

Maybe Ron will correct me here...

signed....BUBBIE

No Bubbie,you had it right the 1st time,I said washer,but I really meant spring.Seemed like that worked pretty good,except you would need a junk comp to get the extra spring out of.

We have added one of the middle size spring washer to several bikes with good success. Two of them have over 17,000 miles on them now with no noise coming from the comp. We just installed one in a 16 Rushmore bike with the extra washer facing the same way as the one it is up against. Looks like it spends more time more toward the center of the ramp and not as much on the tip of the ramp.

Where did you get the spring washer,(aka belleville) from?  Not sure about the spelling

From a spring pack off of a replaced compensator kit.  I'm sure someone is making spacer kits. Baker probably or I'm sure at the dealerships there are tons lying around from change outs if they didn't toss them


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[rbabos]

and my experience is that patch holds as tight as concrete. 

it does that alright     ,  but I remove the patch on all new fasteners preferring loctite as the patch can distort torque readings

Same here. Wire wheel and off it comes.  I prefer easy spin in as apposed to fighting friction with the patch. To me, that stuff is more for assembly line speed, reducing application steps. It's also nasty for applying one sided pressure on the bolt threads in aluminum reducing thread contact with enough repeated in and outs. It slowly enlarges the hole.
Ron

[masstch]

and my experience is that patch holds as tight as concrete. 

it does that alright     ,  but I remove the patch on all new fasteners preferring loctite as the patch can distort torque readings

Same here. Wire wheel and off it comes.  I prefer easy spin in as apposed to fighting friction with the patch. To me, that stuff is more for assembly line speed, reducing application steps. It's also nasty for applying one sided pressure on the bolt threads in aluminum reducing thread contact with enough repeated in and outs. It slowly enlarges the hole.
Ron

I believe the "lockpatch' on the factory bolts is the sole reason for the "staged" torque procedures AND the factory claim that new bolts must be purchased for some applications. As far as I can find, the new style Torx crank bolt is NOT a "Torque To Yield" bolt.
Notably, despite the factory's insistence that the bolt be replaced any and every time it's removed, I've not found many dealers that bother to stock the bolt. There are many reasons to remove it to service other things without replacing the comp and they claim they follow the book... but they don't have the bolt?

[rbabos]

and my experience is that patch holds as tight as concrete. 

it does that alright     ,  but I remove the patch on all new fasteners preferring loctite as the patch can distort torque readings

Same here. Wire wheel and off it comes.  I prefer easy spin in as apposed to fighting friction with the patch. To me, that stuff is more for assembly line speed, reducing application steps. It's also nasty for applying one sided pressure on the bolt threads in aluminum reducing thread contact with enough repeated in and outs. It slowly enlarges the hole.
Ron

I believe the "lockpatch' on the factory bolts is the sole reason for the "staged" torque procedures AND the factory claim that new bolts must be purchased for some applications. As far as I can find, the new style Torx crank bolt is NOT a "Torque To Yield" bolt.
Notably, despite the factory's insistence that the bolt be replaced any and every time it's removed, I've not found many dealers that bother to stock the bolt. There are many reasons to remove it to service other things without replacing the comp and they claim they follow the book... but they don't have the bolt?

Trust me, at that torque rating it's in stretch. Grade9 I believe. How many cycles it can handle is a guess, which is why a replacement is advisable. Many don't however.
Ron

[rageglide]

and my experience is that patch holds as tight as concrete. 

it does that alright     ,  but I remove the patch on all new fasteners preferring loctite as the patch can distort torque readings

I view the lock patch as time release loctite.  Semi-encapsulated and soft enough that when you start leaning into things it lubes to some degree.  Fresh loctite when you screw things together by hand and then say "Potty mouth", where's that torx bit and search for 5 minutes only to find it rolled out of sight under the bike, the stuff is TIGHT when you touch it.  I don't find the lock patch to do that.

I've reused the torx bolt about 5 times now.  Maybe time for a new one.  In fact, I think I'll buy one and measure it against the one I've reused.  I'm guessing my well used one isn't longer.  That's a bad*ss bolt.

[rbabos]

and my experience is that patch holds as tight as concrete. 

it does that alright     ,  but I remove the patch on all new fasteners preferring loctite as the patch can distort torque readings

I view the lock patch as time release loctite.  Semi-encapsulated and soft enough that when you start leaning into things it lubes to some degree.  Fresh loctite when you screw things together by hand and then say "Potty mouth", where's that torx bit and search for 5 minutes only to find it rolled out of sight under the bike, the stuff is TIGHT when you touch it.  I don't find the lock patch to do that.

I've reused the torx bolt about 5 times now.  Maybe time for a new one.  In fact, I think I'll buy one and measure it against the one I've reused.  I'm guessing my well used one isn't longer.  That's a bad*ss bolt.

It's more of a matter of cyclic stretch loads not length change and no two will be exactly the same length. At some point it will snap coming up to full torque. Now, if you have red loctite on the threads in the crank bore, well let's say it's going to be a bad day.
Ron

[rageglide]

I suppose so.  100% agreement it will be a very bad scene if the bolt breaks in the crank snout and has loctite...