Anyone have the 2017 touring service manual?

[les]

I've already found a misprint (page 2-26, table 2-9).  I'm reading on page 4-34.  It's about removing and installing the rocker arms.  On removal, they say to have the piston on TDC.  I agree, because it's the way I do twin-cam to relieve as much spring pressure and not warp the rocker bracket.  However, on installation the manual says to have the piston on approximately BDC on the power stroke.  Is this a misprint?  Should it say TDC instead of BDC?

[les]

Maybe I'm just very tired tonight, but on page 4-38 in the INSTALL section of the head.  It's the torque value table...something does not make sense.

Cylinder head bolt first torque    20-30 ft/lbs
Cylinder head bolt second torque   9-11 ft/lbs
Cylinder head bolt third torque    25-27 ft/lbs

[les]

Maybe I'm just very tired tonight, but on page 4-38 in the INSTALL section of the head.  It's the torque value table...something does not make sense.

Cylinder head bolt first torque    20-30 ft/lbs
Cylinder head bolt second torque   9-11 ft/lbs
Cylinder head bolt third torque    25-27 ft/lbs

Ok, after reading one a bit it says to loosen one full rotation between first and second.  Sorry for jumping the gun.

[les]

Oil pump alignment is different too.  Bottom of page 4-52.


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[les]

Anyone know if the Screamin' Eagle Inner Cam Bearing Remover tool (94114-09) works on the M8 for removing the inner cam bearing?

[PoorUB]

I doubt it, beings the engine was not built when the tool was!

[les]

I doubt it, beings the engine was not built when the tool was!

There seem to be many tools that are the same.  SE Primary locking bar, Kent-Moore inner bearing remover/installer, and others.  I just don't have the bigger collet for the Kent-Moore tool.

[les]

Seems like most (or all) of my six speed tools will work.

[Rockout Rocker Products]

Does that manual have a spec for the clutch release plate travel? For example on my '15 Limited it's .078 min, page 5-22 in the manual. Curious as whether it's more on the '17s.

Thanks 

[-deuced-]

I've already found a misprint (page 2-26, table 2-9).  I'm reading on page 4-34.  It's about removing and installing the rocker arms.  On removal, they say to have the piston on TDC.  I agree, because it's the way I do twin-cam to relieve as much spring pressure and not warp the rocker bracket.  However, on installation the manual says to have the piston on approximately BDC on the power stroke.  Is this a misprint?  Should it say TDC instead of BDC?

Haven't seen the manual or the bike but I'd say that's a typo. At TDC on compression stroke there's no real load on the rockers and safe to remove or install.

[-deuced-]

Maybe I'm just very tired tonight, but on page 4-38 in the INSTALL section of the head.  It's the torque value table...something does not make sense.

Cylinder head bolt first torque    20-30 ft/lbs
Cylinder head bolt second torque   9-11 ft/lbs
Cylinder head bolt third torque    25-27 ft/lbs

Ok, after reading one a bit it says to loosen one full rotation between first and second.  Sorry for jumping the gun.

Again, haven't seen the manual or the bike but that doesn't sound right. The torque-back off-torque procedure is not unheard of. 20 to 30 ft/lbs is a big range.

[-deuced-]

Anyone know if the Screamin' Eagle Inner Cam Bearing Remover tool (94114-09) works on the M8 for removing the inner cam bearing?

The bearing is the same, so the collet should fit. The bearing position and the cam chest are different. The tool plate won't bolt on but maybe it can be repositioned.

[gymply]

Anyone know if the Screamin' Eagle Inner Cam Bearing Remover tool (94114-09) works on the M8 for removing the inner cam bearing?

The bearing is the same, so the collet should fit. The bearing position and the cam chest are different. The tool plate won't bolt on but maybe it can be repositioned.

No tool plate used with the bearing remover tool so if the bearings are the same size I don't see why it would not work.  Agree that the bearing insertion tool with the plate will probably not work.  If somebody could precision drill and tap the TC tooling plate to make it dual purpose (TC and M-8) that would be a cheaper than buying a new tool.  Not sure if there is enough spacing on the plate to do that though...   

[les]

Does that manual have a spec for the clutch release plate travel? For example on my '15 Limited it's .078 min, page 5-22 in the manual. Curious as whether it's more on the '17s.

Thanks 

I will look it up tonight when I get home from work and post.

[les]

Maybe I'm just very tired tonight, but on page 4-38 in the INSTALL section of the head.  It's the torque value table...something does not make sense.

Cylinder head bolt first torque    20-30 ft/lbs
Cylinder head bolt second torque   9-11 ft/lbs
Cylinder head bolt third torque    25-27 ft/lbs

Ok, after reading one a bit it says to loosen one full rotation between first and second.  Sorry for jumping the gun.

Again, haven't seen the manual or the bike but that doesn't sound right. The torque-back off-torque procedure is not unheard of. 20 to 30 ft/lbs is a big range.

This weekend I will type exactly (word for word) what the SM says about this.  Again, new things I've never heard of before.  One additional thing, almost everywhere they include a step about thread conditioning.  They reference the thread conditioning procedure at the beginning of the manual.  It's pretty much what I've been doing all along.

[les]

Anyone know if the Screamin' Eagle Inner Cam Bearing Remover tool (94114-09) works on the M8 for removing the inner cam bearing?

The bearing is the same, so the collet should fit. The bearing position and the cam chest are different. The tool plate won't bolt on but maybe it can be repositioned.

No tool plate used with the bearing remover tool so if the bearings are the same size I don't see why it would not work.  Agree that the bearing insertion tool with the plate will probably not work.  If somebody could precision drill and tap the TC tooling plate to make it dual purpose (TC and M-8) that would be a cheaper than buying a new tool.  Not sure if there is enough spacing on the plate to do that though...   

Actually, it appears that the tool plate is actually the tool they are specifying to use in the SM to install the bearing; also to remove it.  The Kent-Moore tool (which I have) is the same part number as the one in the service manual.  Now, this is a total shock to me.  I still don't believe that tool aligns perfectly because I've not yet actually gotten into an M8 cam chest and done it in real life.  It sure would be nice if someone verified this, and if true that would be great news!

[les]

Anyone know if the Screamin' Eagle Inner Cam Bearing Remover tool (94114-09) works on the M8 for removing the inner cam bearing?

The bearing is the same, so the collet should fit. The bearing position and the cam chest are different. The tool plate won't bolt on but maybe it can be repositioned.

I was thinking the same thing.  The SE remover tool is sort of a stand alone tool, not requiring the plate.  Unless the bearing boss is an irregular shape, I can't see why it won't fit the 1" bearing.  (It's a 1" bearing, right?  They didn't go back to the smaller bearing?)  I know they say to use the Kent-Moore collet that the part number ends with 12A.  I believe that's the upgrade collet for the Kent-Moore tool, which I don't have.  I have the SE remover that augments my Kent-Moore bearing tool.

[les]

I've already found a misprint (page 2-26, table 2-9).  I'm reading on page 4-34.  It's about removing and installing the rocker arms.  On removal, they say to have the piston on TDC.  I agree, because it's the way I do twin-cam to relieve as much spring pressure and not warp the rocker bracket.  However, on installation the manual says to have the piston on approximately BDC on the power stroke.  Is this a misprint?  Should it say TDC instead of BDC?

Haven't seen the manual or the bike but I'd say that's a typo. At TDC on compression stroke there's no real load on the rockers and safe to remove or install.

Of course, thinking the same thing but the thing that nags at me about it being a typo is every other place in every other SM says the words "put it at TDC"...when they want you to put it at TDC.  This says "put it at approximately BDC".  Sort of indicates to me that the author really intended to say "bottom".  But why the hell why?  Installing stock solid pushrods is exactly the same as adjustables in terms of base circles, bleed down, etc..  TDC. 

[-deuced-]

It's ok, there's no need to reprint the SM.
At approximately TDC is another way of saying cam on base circles for that cylinder.
Is there a page about notifying moco of discrepencies?

Oops, my bad on the bearing remover. I thought it used a plate across the cam chest although it seems it was understood what I was getting at.

What does the SM say about clearance between rocker and valve?

[glens]

Probably nothing since they're "set for life" during factory assembly...

[Rockout Rocker Products]

Does that manual have a spec for the clutch release plate travel? For example on my '15 Limited it's .078 min, page 5-22 in the manual. Curious as whether it's more on the '17s.

Thanks 

I will look it up tonight when I get home from work and post.

Thanks brother 

[les]

It's ok, there's no need to reprint the SM.
At approximately TDC is another way of saying cam on base circles for that cylinder.
Is there a page about notifying moco of discrepencies?

Oops, my bad on the bearing remover. I thought it used a plate across the cam chest although it seems it was understood what I was getting at.

What does the SM say about clearance between rocker and valve?

I believe it said max of .008", but I'll verify tomorrow. 


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[les]

Does that manual have a spec for the clutch release plate travel? For example on my '15 Limited it's .078 min, page 5-22 in the manual. Curious as whether it's more on the '17s.

Thanks 

Page 7-16, Table 7-4:  Minimum Release Plate Movement Specification

.086"
2.18 mm


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[les]

It's ok, there's no need to reprint the SM.
At approximately TDC is another way of saying cam on base circles for that cylinder.
Is there a page about notifying moco of discrepencies?

Oops, my bad on the bearing remover. I thought it used a plate across the cam chest although it seems it was understood what I was getting at.

What does the SM say about clearance between rocker and valve?

I believe it said max of .008", but I'll verify tomorrow.

Page 4-34: 

"The maximum allowable lash on a common rocker arm is 0.008" in (0.2 mm).  A measurement in excess requires disassembly and repair of cylinder head assembly."


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[les]

Maybe I'm just very tired tonight, but on page 4-38 in the INSTALL section of the head.  It's the torque value table...something does not make sense.

Cylinder head bolt first torque    20-30 ft/lbs
Cylinder head bolt second torque   9-11 ft/lbs
Cylinder head bolt third torque    25-27 ft/lbs

Ok, after reading one a bit it says to loosen one full rotation between first and second.  Sorry for jumping the gun.

Again, haven't seen the manual or the bike but that doesn't sound right. The torque-back off-torque procedure is not unheard of. 20 to 30 ft/lbs is a big range.

This weekend I will type exactly (word for word) what the SM says about this.  Again, new things I've never heard of before.  One additional thing, almost everywhere they include a step about thread conditioning.  They reference the thread conditioning procedure at the beginning of the manual.  It's pretty much what I've been doing all along.

Page 4-39:

"
5.  See Figure 4-22.  Tighten head bolts in five stages following sequence shown.

     a.  Tighten to 20-30 ft-lbs (27.1-40.7 Nm)
     b.  Loosen one full rotation.
     c.  Tighten to 9-11 ft-lbs (12.2-14.9 Nm)
     d.  Tighten to 25-27 ft-lbs (33.9-36.6 Nm)
     e.  Final tighten an Cylinder head bolt final torqueadditional 90 degrees-.
"

Yes, step e. is all f#!ked up just like that in the service manual.  My list of misprints is ever growing.