2 cams...which do you like...and why?

[No Cents]

  when the old 124 comes down this winter I will be putting a on new set of wfolarry massaged 110 heads and that will be dropping the compression back down to around 11.35:1 area. I would like your guys thoughts and any input on these two cams.

1st cam spec's are:
         lift    timing    dur     L/C     LSA 
Int  .630"   23/51    254   104.0  108.0
Exh .610"   62/18    260   112.0              41 overlap

2nd cam spec's are:
        lift     timing   dur      L/C      LSA
Int  .630"   22/50   252    104.0   105.0
Exh .630"   52/20   252    106.0               42 overlap

added later:
even thou some of the cams spec's are fairly similar...I'm thinking they will perform totally different. 

Ray

[RTMike]

What does Larry recommend

[No Cents]

 he doesn't.
Larry told me to run what ever cam I wanted when I asked him.

[Ohio HD]

Ray, I know nothing personally about either cam set. But by my interpretation of the timing, cam #1 will be softer down low, and hit harder up top. #2 probably a broader RPM range. Only way to know for sure....  run them.

[mike jesse]

On paper the second cam (Woods 9B) should hit harder down low.

Not sure what you are searching for Ray. 

[koko3052]

more torque at lower RPM on #2

[TorQuePimp]

#1

[No Cents]

On paper the second cam (Woods 9B) should hit harder down low.

Not sure what you are searching for Ray.

  Mike...you are correct. Cam #2 is the Wood 9B.
With the intake timing events so close between the two cams I had to wonder more about how the exhaust events come into play with the wider L/C.
  I've ran the 662-2 cams in the past and it had similar intake events as both these cams. The -2 cams were pretty much cocked and loaded down low all the time and I didn't care too much for that as time went by. I loved the power they made...but it was very radical and not so much of a smooth power delivering cam. It seemed like it was an all or nothing cam.
  The first cam has the exhaust L/C at 112.0 and I'm thinking it will be produce a little broader torque curve and maybe be a little more civil than the -2's or the 9B's would be. 
  That's why I asked my question. I know the only way to know for sure is to try them both...but I'm not wanting to do that with all the time and travel it would take me to compare them...not to mention the costs of two different dyno tunes.
  I told Larry I was going with cam #1. I just hope it is the smarter choice.

Ray

  added later:
John...why do you say cam #1?

[rking1550]

On paper the second cam (Woods 9B) should hit harder down low.

Not sure what you are searching for Ray.

  Mike...you are correct. Cam #2 is the Wood 9B.
With the intake timing events so close between the two cams I had to wonder more about how the exhaust events come into play with the wider L/C.
  I've ran the 662-2 cams in the past and it had similar intake events as both these cams. The -2 cams were pretty much cocked and loaded down low all the time and I didn't care too much for that as time went by. I loved the power they made...but it was very radical and not so much of a smooth power delivering cam. It seemed like it was an all or nothing cam.
  The first cam has the exhaust L/C at 112.0 and I'm thinking it will be produce a little broader torque curve and maybe be a little more civil than the -2's or the 9B's would be. 
  That's why I asked my question. I know the only way to know for sure is to try them both...but I'm not wanting to do that with all the time and travel it would take me to compare them...not to mention the costs of two different dyno tunes.
  I told Larry I was going with cam #1. I just hope it is the smarter choice.

Ray

  added later:
John...why do you say cam #1?

  Ray what compression did you run the -2 at ?  and what size motor ?  I've got a 120" at 11.3 with the S&S 640 in it, had the 662-1 in for a while and a -2 sitting on the shelf.  the 662-1 was just like you said about the -2 on or off , no in-between kind of like a electric motor. the 640 is much more street friendly but i miss some of the fun factor and instant throttle response  of the -1, I'm hoping the -2 is the middle of the road cam between the -1 and 640. Any thoughts ?   sorry for the hijack, pm me if you prefer. thanks 

[build it]

Cam 1, it's a no brainer to me. Slight spread in duration and lift, wider LSA, maybe less aggressive ramps (need to Cam Doctor) to be sure, but, number one for sure.

Now, those events are so damn close it could be, mostly, a wash, but prolly not.

[No Cents]

  I ran the -2 cams in my old 117 for awhile. It was set at 11.3. The -2's were like a light switch to me...either on or off with no in between. It is a good hot rod cam.
  I ended up swapping them out for the 594's...and I liked the ride quality much better with the 594's. I'm sort of after that same feel where as I don't have to worry about taking one hand off the bars and I don't have to worry about it wanting to kick me off the seat if I give it a little more throttle. I'm more or less wanting a smoother power delivery without sacrificing anything when it's time to turn it on.   
  The -2 cams and the 640's are totally different feeling cams to me. I ran the 640's first at around 11.5 compression and after running them at that compression they seemed to lull me to sleep. They were very smooth. They did come on when you twisted the wick to them. Now at my current 12.2 compression the 640's...they became a hot rod cam...almost evil running. You have to hang on to it...for sure. They definitely responded exceptionally well to the extra compression.

Ray

  added later:
cam #1 is Wes Brown's (Cyclerama) CR630I cams...for those who might be wondering.

[wfolarry]

Those cams are completely different & will respond different as well at the same compression.
Cam #1 would be my pick as well for what he's looking for.

[rking1550]

  I ran the -2 cams in my old 117 for awhile. It was set at 11.3. The -2's were like a light switch to me...either on or off with no in between. It is a good hot rod cam.
  I ended up swapping them out for the 594's...and I liked the ride quality much better with the 594's. I'm sort of after that same feel where as I don't have to worry about taking one hand off the bars and I don't have to worry about it wanting to kick me off the seat if I give it a little more throttle. I'm more or less wanting a smoother power delivery without sacrificing anything when it's time to turn it on.   
  The -2 cams and the 640's are totally different feeling cams to me. I ran the 640's first at around 11.5 compression and after running them at that compression they seemed to lull me to sleep. They were very smooth. They did come on when you twisted the wick to them. Now at my current 12.2 compression the 640's...they became a hot rod cam...almost evil running. You have to hang on to it...for sure. They definitely responded exceptionally well to the extra compression.

Ray

  added later:
cam #1 is Wes Brown's (Cyclerama) CR630I cams...for those who might be wondering.

  my feelings exactly, your words but they could've been coming out of my mouth, on the -1 and 640s ( haven't used the -2 yet ) but from what your saying it sounds like the -2 will be a lot more like the -1 than in-between the -1 and 640.  And I think we've talked about this before too,including the 594s, maybe I should think about them some more. I've been thinking about it for most of the riding season this year. 
thanks for the info.

[Ohio HD]

The CycleRama cams are really similar to the S&S625's that I'll be running in the 124. What I want is a very street-able motor, with some get up and go across the power range. The S&S625's were designed when most TC motors were not built that large, at least most street motors. So they were considered a little peaky say in a 95" or 98" motor. In larger motors like a 124, they should be a great all around set of cams with great manners. 

[attach=0]

[kd]

  TDC lift on the Cycle Rama cams is 0.236 intake and 0.154 exhaust. This is taller on the intake average we see in most cams and lower on the exhaust.  (The S&S cam Ohio mentions has a MUCH lower TDC lift of 0.189 intake & 0.184 exhaust respectively.) The Wood 9B falls in he middle at 0.208 intake and 0.191 exhaust TDC lift. Will cylinder fill will be effected accordingly with the other specs being fairly close?

[build it]

Larry, is cam 1 your first choice or would you run something different? You did the heads so I'm sure you know what would compliment your heads and Rays exhaust best.

[No Cents]

 kd...tdc lifts on this 630I cam is:
intake is .210"
exhaust is .173"

Brian...I'm thinking the 630I and the S&S 625 are very close to each other.
I think we are looking for the same kind of results.   

  My original plan was to run the 9B's...but after buying a set it got me thinking about how much they might turn out to be a lot like the -2 cams. So I continued searching for another option. When I ran across the CR630I cams and after I talked to Wes about them and I told him what I was after...he told me that if I liked the way his CR651's performed for me (which to date was the biggest hp producing cams that I've ran)...that I would love the design of his 630I cams. Wes described them to me as they would produce big early torque and he said they will support big end hp and they will pull extremely hard all the way out to the red line...if I have a good set of flowing heads and an exhaust that will support it. I told him that Larry was doing another set of heads for me...and his reply to that was I just might shock a few people then with how well the engine will do. He also told me the 630I cams tune in very easy and best of all they have excellent street manners. They sounded like they fit the bill perfect for what I was looking for.

Thanks for chiming in Larry with your opinion.
I figured these two cams would respond differently when set at the same compression. I talked to Bob Wood and I asked him about setting the 9B's at 11.35 compression. He told me they would love it and they would basically be badass set at that compression in a 124...but then he went on and added that the tune would have to be spot on @ 11.35 and the engine temps would have to be monitored closely at all times. He told me that I wouldn't want to see anything higher than 210* oil temps running the 9B's at that compression. I do monitor my oil temps...but I didn't like hearing that. I'm looking for a no fuss engine...just hit the starter button and go ride with power to be had at the twist of the wick if I'm looking to play.

Ray

[rking1550]

Ray, when to plan on having this build done ?
I'm very interested in the out come.
What your wanting/discribing is just what I'm looking for too. A trouble free ,easy starting, able to ride 4-500 mile days and a hot rod when I want it to be. 

[kd]

 kd...tdc lifts on this 630I cam is:
intake is .210"
exhaust is .173"


  I was looking at the CR630 not CR630I. I do like those TDC lift specs better because it give me an option now too. It will be interesting to see how they work for you. They'll swap in for my 660sm's. I have the valve pockets set deeper to handle a couple of other cams and I'm also set at 11.3/1.

[No Cents]

 I'm waiting on the heads. I have everything else I need to make the changes.
I'll be pulling it down sometime this winter once the bad weather has totally set in. Right now I still might be able to catch a few days that are warm enough to take a ride or two.

  kd...I'm just going by what Wes told me. This is another one of his mystery cams that he doesn't publicize for some reason. I don't have any first hand experience with the 630I...or do I know of anybody that has ran it. Hell a month ago I had never heard of it before. I'll be treading new waters here. I only found one dyno sheet with the 630I's that were in a CVO 110...and it looked pretty damn good to me. It made very nice power from just off idle to the red line...just like Wes told me it would.

Ray

[No Cents]

  kd...here is the only dyno sheet I could find with the 630I cams in it.
It is a CVO 110 dyna that has a Zilla pipe on it. I know it's not an sae graph...but I thought beings it's not in the dyno section maybe the mods will let it slide.

[attach=0]

Ray

[1workinman]

The CycleRama cams are really similar to the S&S625's that I'll be running in the 124. What I want is a very street-able motor, with some get up and go across the power range. The S&S625's were designed when most TC motors were not built that large, at least most street motors. So they were considered a little peaky say in a 95" or 98" motor. In larger motors like a 124, they should be a great all around set of cams with great manners. 

[attach=0]

That is the cam I plan on using in my 124 also set at 200 or close . With a set of heads to support hp . Be interesting on how it turns out, I was also comparing the camshafts also. I just want a engine that is drama free lol and pulls hard and not lay over

[Ohio HD]

The CycleRama cams are really similar to the S&S625's that I'll be running in the 124. What I want is a very street-able motor, with some get up and go across the power range. The S&S625's were designed when most TC motors were not built that large, at least most street motors. So they were considered a little peaky say in a 95" or 98" motor. In larger motors like a 124, they should be a great all around set of cams with great manners. 

[attach=0]

That is the cam I plan on using in my 124 also set at 200 or close . With a set of heads to support hp . Be interesting on how it turns out, I was also comparing the camshafts also. I just want a engine that is drama free lol and pulls hard and not lay over

Same here. I think the 625's will perform great, I have MVA heads that Larry worked some big magic on, so I think with that, the cam's, HPI intake, Boarzille pipe and great tune, should be a solid runner. I have everything I need, just need to get past surgery and the pain pills I'm on....   

And as you said, drama free.     

[yobtaf103]

Hi Ray, news to me but have you seen the Suburban Speed 634 cam, spec's on their site.

[mtrhead269]

No love for the DME 630 ?