Timing a 1989 FXR

[1340evo]

Have been messing trying to set the timing right.. But I'm getting difo results on how to time the bike up if anyone can confirm the correct way.. basicaly the confusion is the RPM you do it at?
I'm reading in some posts / sites you do it just above tickover.. and in other 2500 RPM?.. whats the right one?

So.. front cylinder advanced dot in window at 950 / 1000 RPM...
or front cylinder advanced dot in the window at 2000 / 2500 RPM?

I've done the first.. but pleanty of places are saying the second?... It's got the VOSE connected BTW ...

Cheers

[98lowrider]

If you can get a dial back light it will be much easier. You can then find the TDC mark in the window and adjust the timing according to what you end up with on the light when the TDC mark appears. In your manual it will specify the exact mark to use and the degrees it indicates and rpm. So you set it to that rpm then use the dial back to find the TDC mark. If it's there at 18 degrees and you're looking for the 20 mark you can turn it 2 degrees CW and recheck. It's much easier

[1340evo]

Yes.. Thanks... I know how to do it and the advance dot works fine (or I do have a dial back for the tdc mark)... I think its 35 deg...
But its the rpm I need... Just at tickover (so max vacuum)... Or. 2500 rpm?
What I don't have is a manual.... 😉

[Deye76]

When using a timing light I always have the rpm's at 2000 or close.

[tmwmoose]

the rpm at which the factory wants it checked at has differed over the years look it up in the oem service manaual

[1340evo]

the rpm at which the factory wants it checked at has differed over the years look it up in the oem service manaual

What I don't have is a manual.... 😉 ... never seen one for sale in the UK... will have to look.. but if someone knows the RPM for now.. it would be usefull     as posted above.. I'm now thinking more the 2000-2500 range and not the 'just of tickover' i've used...

[98lowrider]

Assuming you have a stock module?  You might be able to look up the curve online by the letter code. D maybe?  Not really sure. For my 98 it uses 1500 RPMs and 20 degree dots it doesn't hit 35 until much later in the curve. If you have help what you could do is stay in the window and have them slowly increase RPMs to watch for the dot. All you need is max advance. It's just easier to find at a lower speed.  If you timed it at 3500 for example, you're still fine if you're using the Max advance 35 degrees.

[1340evo]

Maybe I'm understanding this a bit more now... So 35 deg is the max advance on all motors... But we are not sure where the advanced dot is on the crank... it may be at 20 deg so you run at 1500 rpm say... (I'd assumed the advance mark was at 35 deg.. may be it's not)
But they all end up at 35 deg 2500 plus... hence the better way to do it is to use the TDC mark, set it to 35 deg on the dial back and do it at 2500 plus on the tdc mark....
Yes.. this kind of all adds up now...
Have I got it right?.....

[98lowrider]

You got it quicker than I did when I first did it!  Yes max advance on a stock ignition is 35 you just don't know when that comes in without the book or something showing the curve. If you get RPMs to 2000-2500 and find TDC with the dial back at 35 you're good. It isn't going to advance further. You can then rev to 3500 and see it's not going any higher. You're flywheel might only have the 35 dot and TDC line.

[1340evo]

Indeed.. there must be a way of putting a angle wheel on there to find out where the dot is.. I'll give this a go... as you say.. If it's actualy at 35 deg.. then it's not a problem.....

What I need to find is someone with the book for a 1989 model.. I'll also check the pickup thing an dthe box.. see what they say.. Thanks for your help

[98lowrider]

The box itself will be stamped 1340-D or whatever letter curve it is. I believe it's a D curve for that year. I think, not positive, you could use someone else's book for the same year that uses that module but I'm not certain. The VOES would operate any a different pressure but yours would close before a heavier bike so shouldn't matter it will be grounded at an earlier RPM than any other bike. This won't help you but here's the modules and years. Also, I really think you're fine without the manual. Start at 1500 see where your TDC line is, if it's not 35 go to 2000rpms and try again. Because you have the dial you can dial and find it and know if you're at max on the curve. When you're adjusting the cam sensor in the cone. Clockwise advances it, counter clockwise retards. Move it just a little bit at a time like 1/16"

https://books.google.com/books?id=NOOQjPWkBy4C&pg=PA208&lpg=PA208&dq=ignition+module+101+harley&source=bl&ots=-t6WbAXPLy&sig=nGHt8r9NJcGgGnfU0UE72bWuzs0&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjPvaGorurTAhWGNiYKHYGyCa0Q6AEIMjAK

[tmwmoose]

Put the rear wheel of the ground plugs out and in 5th rotate and watch the valves front cyl , int open n close (compression stroke) .Then with a straw or or small skinny screw driver in the front spark plug hole bumb the wheel so you feel the piston come up to the top and then as continue slowly till it starts to go down now slowly bump the wheel backwards to put the piston back at the top and look in the timing hole on the later motors like yours you should see a verticle line thats tdc mark now slowly bump the motor backward feeling the screw driver going down and watch the hole you will see next a dot I believe toward the bottom of the hole come up next thats your adv mark. Your screw driver will have sunk down just under 1/2" when this dot shows up . you have just verified your timing marks. And if I'm wrong on the marks this way you will know what they are no doubt

[1340evo]

Thanks Guy's.. thats very interesting... and reading the link give me an idea of what I'm up against???

OK.. so the ignition unit only has printing on the underside where the wires go in.. would not supprise me if the previous owner removed things from the face as it didn't look good !   

anyway.. its a bit faded, but I think it says 32414 812     111      01 89    on it

there is no ident on the VOSE at all

The timing marks are a straight line for TDC on the front pot... with a dot before it... thats it, just 2 marks on the full 360 deg... putting a straw in from TDC to the dot drop the straw about 12mm... or close to 1/2"... so what does this signify in angle?.. any idea....

Thanks very much for your help so far!!!!!     

** just looking on line.. I guess the ECU says 32414 84? as these are for the FXR's ... so how does one time up this unit ** 
Does say here about a 50 deg advance .... but also 35 deg... 
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=ZqzK-Ua10_gC&pg=PA471&lpg=PA471&dq=harley+32414+8&source=bl&ots=wb0Y0KbJwd&sig=zQ22QZeZW13ExTxRhVQTkH3tmQo&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwin8KeyquvTAhVpBMAKHZK1AJwQ6AEIOTAF#v=onepage&q=harley%2032414%208&f=false

[98lowrider]

The flywheels vary by year. Yours should have one dot for 35 and one line for TDC. Just rev and hold it at 1500 and check the timing, turn your dial on the light until you see the line then stop and see what the dial is on. Then do it again and 2000 RPMs. What do you get?

[1340evo]

will do.. the lights at my mates right now so im stuck with my old standard unit... but will give it a try when I get it back... guess those rpm are for 20 and 35 deg... I'm sure it's 35 deg?... I must be able to work it out using trig from the piston movement... may have a try later

[98lowrider]

You're over thinking it. You can try to do it without the dial back it's just harder. In that case hold it at 2000 and see if you can see the mark it's hard to do. The dial back allows you to find the mark when timing is dead on. It's hard as hell to see it anyways when it is there. As far as all the other stuff it's not a big deal. You only need to get RPMs high enough to fully advance and get to 35. Or that's 1500 great if not try 2000. As soon as you're max advanced it won't go further.

[1340evo]

yes.. will give it a try.. my normal light is poor on light output but may work in the garage... reading a bit more last night I've seen advanced quoted as 42 and 50 deg also!... this is the Haynes manual?
But the majority appear to be 0 at tickover and 35 at full... I'll do it at 2500 and see if it comes back to the line at tickover

[98lowrider]

35 is what you want. I've given you everything you need to know heee. Good luck

[1340evo]

Yes, indeed... And that is what ill use... Just curious as to the others you see around...
I'll static time it at 5 deg... Then when I get the strobe, see how it looks...

Thinking about it, its running ok now with the advance mark in the window just above tickover.. So very advanced (is that the right way)..  Makes you wonder how accurate they have to be to run?... Obviously longer term you'd see damage.... But on my Suzuki, it would never run this far out... 

[98lowrider]

If it's running don't bother static timing or that's just to get it fired on new install. Just tikenit when you're ready and have the light.

[1340evo]

This is what I don't understand from this site :-

4. Start engine. Set engine speed by turning idle adjustment screw clockwise to increase speed or counterclockwise to decrease speed.

a. On world models, idle speed is 950-1050 RPM.

b. On California models, idle speed is 1150-1250 RPM.

5. Timing light will flash each time ignition spark occurs. Aim timing light into timing inspection hole. Front cylinder advance timing mark should be centered in timing inspection hole. If not, see ADJUSTMENT below.

http://www.nightrider.com/biketech/ignition_timing_00.htm

This is setting the advanced make at tickover speed??....

[K4FXD]

The advance is set at 2500 on most.

If you set the advance at "tick over" you won't be able to start it hot..

[98lowrider]

The advance is set at 2500 on most.

If you set the advance at "tick over" you won't be able to start it hot..

I keep telling you the same thing!  Stop reading!  You don't have your manual and I don't have your manual. That is where it will tell you the EXACT RPMs to use and what degree mark to time it to. Because you don't have this valuable information the only way to time it is using the max advance at whatever rpm that is. It doesn't matter how high it is once it hits max at 35 that's it, all in, not going higher. I told you how to confirm that so you can stop questioning yourself. Start at 1500 probably not going to be at 35. Try 2000. Try 2500. Somewhere between 1500-2500 your ignition module will advance to 35. When it does you'll be using a dial back light and will be seeing the exact number on the dial. 34,33,32,35 whatever it is. Once you get that, you move the cam sensor a hair CW to move the advance up,34-35 for example. Or CCW to go down. That's really all there is to it. If you have help you can do this in 5 minutes, I used the throttle lock and it takes a little longer to get RPMs holding steady where you want them a steady hand would be quicker. Also a dark garage and maybe a battery charger or external battery for the light. I find mine works better when a charger is hooked up or I use a car battery parked close. That's it. Stop googling, you're just going to find incorrect info to confuse you. Good luck!

[1340evo]

Yes.. I know.. don't shout at me LOL 

just saying this is where I got my original info from... and why I set it like I did in the first place... it is very missleading...

for sure I'm doing it like you say... 

I will let you know the outcome   

[98lowrider]

I was in your situation and I read that site and the metrohog one and I was very confused because it never worked. You'll get it when you do it it makes sense when you're using the dial back light.

[1340evo]

I'm sure I will... reason I'm doing this is I don't think it's getting full rev's at the top end....  so I hope this will help... It has been retarded so it may do... if not I'm looking for something else and back to the carb jetting....
Can't wait to get the gun back and see what it does   

[thumper 823]

Harley "times" the engine where it is most important -at run speed.
American cars for years did the opposite and timed them at an idle .
So if you think of it that way it might help.
Bigger numbers(more advanced @RPM)
Even so-  it is no guarantee you have found the sweet spot if the engine has been modded.
High compression, leaner mix, endless combination, and variables take away the cookie cutter numbers

[festus]

You didnt say if if the engine is stock?
But either way without a dyno and in the real world.
Get a buddy with a bike, put yours in 4th or 5th and find a gear on his bike that is close when you roll on from about 2500rpm on your bike.
go to about 4-4.5K?
Leave the timing cover off.
Do a roll on and then pull over and add timing. Dont have to shut it off.
Do another roll on. keep adding timing until the bike pings and/or falls off. go back to the last setting.
Got to the bar....um restaurant and shut off the bike wait about 5 min and see how it starts. If its good you are ok if it kicks back take a little more timing out.
Do this a couple times with the same honest friend and same bike.
This will be the best timing for "your bike". Then mark the cover.
You might make more power on a sheet but this works for actual riding.
Lights are good to start but every bike if different.
I had a buddies bike and 1.5 degrees made a huge difference in the way it started and ran.
My old FXR 80" 11.2-1, CM580, headwork, HI-4E and slipons made more power on the dyno after timing adjustments but wouldn't start worth a damn and didnt run as good on the street. I put the timing back after the dyno.

Plus this is just good times!! Good luck and have fun be safe.