houston we have a problem oh i mean harley

[sbcharlie]

i cannot believe what is happening   the 114 are melting the balancer bearing and destroy the engine
found out over weekend    i can not believe we having a bearing issue again with a new model.  thought they would have learned from the 99 twin cam bearing issue. the cage is made of plastic  this is going to get interesting sbc

[CndUltra88]

The guy who counted those beans to save Mother HD a few pennies got promoted and his notes got lost.
Well, I guess I'll have to watch this thread for more learning.
Rob

[tmwmoose]

Harley's don't run hot you just ask Harley

[Hossamania]

If the 114s are going, how long before the 107s do the same?

[twincam8888]

Cheap cam bearings took out Evo engines too. Will they never learn.  Makes me angry actually.   Might get that FTF tattoo after all. LOL

[Ohio HD]

How many are known to have had this happen? 

[fbn ent]

And THAT'S why many are going back to older models both EVO and Carbed Twinkies. Seems every two steps forward have one back. Awful! 

[hattitude]

Thanks for the info......

This is the first I've heard of it. Is this a well kept secret that has affected numerous bikes or is this a few isolated cases at this point?

There are several shops running M8s through numerous dyno runs, testing performance parts. I gotta believe that is a harder life than normal street riding. The only problems I've heard them complain about are slipping clutch and oil migrating from tranny to primary...

I'm seriously thinking of getting an M8, but this issue would give me pause.....

[K4FXD]

Could this cause the failures that are posted on this and other forums?

[rbabos]

i cannot believe what is happening   the 114 are melting the balancer bearing and destroy the engine
found out over weekend    i can not believe we having a bearing issue again with a new model.  thought they would have learned from the 99 twin cam bearing issue. the cage is made of plastic  this is going to get interesting sbc

Well, I do remember the outer bearings in my 07 softail were INA with the plastic cage. Never heard of issues with that bearing. Mind you the inner was a nice beefy ball bearing. The 07 and up softails also had lighter weights to keep the case from wallowing out at the bearing holes. Maybe in the case of the M8 the balancer mass it too high for it's bearings. Should not happen, like you say from past experiences.
Ron

[sfmichael]

interesting 

[sbcharlie]

There are 4 police bikes in Cincinnati  and another north of there if someone could send me an email I can forward pictures love those bearing made in India  I going to have to take my engine apart since it probably not in warranty plus I do not want someone flat rating my engine apart sad it's working great don't trust along road trip with some dip "Potty mouth" taking apart  I sent mce pictures of this issue     It's so far the 114.   This to me can turn into a big issue cam bearing were easy to fix   I was told Harley was replacing engines  sbc

[Bike31]

Your comments have been called out on the HD Forum in their M8 section. Not my issue as I'm neutral, but you might want to better substantiate your thread so if there's a problem it's indeed a valid claim that needs addressing. Pics etc. might help. Nothing wrong with a warning I might add.

[Dan89flstc]

The sky is falling...

[1FSTRK]

There are 4 police bikes in Cincinnati  and another north of there if someone could send me an email I can forward pictures love those bearing made in India  I going to have to take my engine apart since it probably not in warranty plus I do not want someone flat rating my engine apart sad it's working great don't trust along road trip with some dip "Potty mouth" taking apart  I sent mce pictures of this issue     It's so far the 114.   This to me can turn into a big issue cam bearing were easy to fix   I was told Harley was replacing engines  sbc

Are the bearings and balance weight different in the 114? What would cause the 114 to have this problem and not the 107?

[sbcharlie]

i sent pictures to fsg this morning  it looks like a heat problem   bearing made in India 

[fbn ent]

It's probably the oil 

[rbabos]

It's probably the oil 

Not really, and I know you are joking . If you operate the engine below 3500 to prevent oil transfer from trans to primary the balancer won't be an issue either.  High rpms is most likey taking the balancer out for what ever reason. Case mass rigidity in bearing bore or bearings itself possibly.   107 and 114 operate at the same oil temps so I don't think the heat argument carries much weight. The 114 could likely be run harder showing the problem sooner but a basic flaw could still exist in both. Miles and time will show that up. Let's face it, if the condition doesn't exist, we wouldn't be reading about it a few times already.
Ron

[14GuineaPig]

Just a question about the police bikes.  From HD's brochure, the police models come with the oil cooled 107 M8.  Does Cincinnati have 114 ci motors in their police bikes?

[FSG]

the sbc pix

[fbn ent]

 

[PoorUB]

Where is the cage? In the oil filter?

[1FSTRK]

I wonder if this is the cause of the broken cases in the other thread?

[04 SE Deuce]

Doesn't look like the sky is falling,  just the cage disintegrating and the rollers falling out.

I love it when reality and internet intersect on occasion.

[borno]

That's not lookin' too good

[1workinman]

I wonder if this is the cause of the broken cases in the other thread?

I was wondering the same thing .

[happyman]

How many are known to have had this happen?

Quwarion is now  is there a bearing out there yet that will or takes care of the issue?

[borno]

looks like a nu2205 cylindrical roller bearing with polyamide cage. according to skf " some synthetic oils and greases with a synthetic oil base and lubricants containing EP additives, when used at high temperatures, can have a detrimental effect on polyamide cages." I don't know if this is relavent though.

[Durwood]

the sbc pix

Looks like a good reason to split the cases. 143"er coming right up

[borno]

If it is a 2205 there are some with brass cages https://bearingsdirect.com/nu200-series-inner-race-fully-removable-light-duty/2398-nu2205em-cylindrical-roller-bearing-brass-cage-id-25-x-od-52-x-w-18mm-ubc-usbc.html

[tmwmoose]

Back when I would replace the right crank bearing on my 02 lot of times the new bearing would show up with rollers loose in the package you just had to snap them back in the plastic cage.Poor packaging but scary to think a  piece of cheap Honk Kong plastic (my moms favorite words) is relied apond in my not so cheap motor

[Pete_Vit]

Cheap cam bearings took out Evo engines too. Will they never learn.  Makes me angry actually.   Might get that FTF tattoo after all. LOL

yep, mine took some time, but never lasted over 60G's 

[K4FXD]

looks like a nu2205 cylindrical roller bearing with polyamide cage. according to skf " some synthetic oils and greases with a synthetic oil base and lubricants containing EP additives, when used at high temperatures, can have a detrimental effect on polyamide cages." I don't know if this is relavent though.

So  it is an OIL issue!

[fbn ent]

looks like a nu2205 cylindrical roller bearing with polyamide cage. according to skf " some synthetic oils and greases with a synthetic oil base and lubricants containing EP additives, when used at high temperatures, can have a detrimental effect on polyamide cages." I don't know if this is relavent though.

If it is relevant it is a game changer for the moco. 

[rbabos]

There are no EP additives in motor oils, dino or syn. Gear lubes, thats a different story.
I find it hard to believe all the cage is missing in those pics but anything is possible. That balancer would be rattling like a bastard will all that clearance from uneven spaced rollers, close to gear tooth disengagement. Must be some real crap material in the cages if hot motor oil will dissolve it, which may or may not be the case. I'm pondering if oiling/cooling to the bearings is weak causing extra heat in the cage material for the break down. Can't tell from the pics but those rollers seem to show a hint of blue. If so, there's the culprit as in extra heat.
Ron

[rbabos]

looks like a nu2205 cylindrical roller bearing with polyamide cage. according to skf " some synthetic oils and greases with a synthetic oil base and lubricants containing EP additives, when used at high temperatures, can have a detrimental effect on polyamide cages." I don't know if this is relavent though.

If it is relevant it is a game changer for the moco. 

So now we've gone from bearing skate with syn to cage melt down?  I'm thinking roller heat is burning up the cage as a best guess. Cause, yet to be determined.
Ron
Ron

[PoorUB]

How does that bearing get lubed? Splash? Oil passage from the pump? Might be a lack of oil problem.

[rbabos]

How does that bearing get lubed? Splash? Oil passage from the pump? Might be a lack of oil problem.

Looks like basic splash but shaft could be slinging most off before it gets to the bearing. Speculation of course. Feed hole similar to timkens to back side would be better, possibly.
Ron

[Paniolo]

https://www.facebook.com/martin.olgin.1/videos/1163055760507409/

Not sure this link will work for you, but here's another one.

[Ohio HD]

A 2015 model isn't a Milwaukee Eight motor, it's a Twin Cam.

[1FSTRK]

Nothing wrong with using synthetic cage bearing bearings, they work fine in way higher loads than this application. This comes down to a manufacturing defect or like so many things "new" from Harley  poor engineering. It would not be the first time they failed to provide proper lubrication or used the wrong bearing for the job.

[rbabos]

Nothing wrong with using synthetic cage bearing bearings, they work fine in way higher loads than this application. This comes down to a manufacturing defect or like so many things "new" from Harley  poor engineering. It would not be the first time they failed to provide proper lubrication or used the wrong bearing for the job.

Say it ain't so. One of the obvious things when comparing the balancer assembly to the vrod is , while the same bearings pretty much are used, both ends are open for oil and behind and back of the crank there will be great gobs of it. I've yet to read of a bearing issue with them, even screaming them to 9k + a hair.
Ron

[FXDBI]

I would like to see the gear teeth, there were some other pictures of one that busted the case and destroyed everything. Guy had warranty denied because of his FP3. I wonder if the gear is to tight and loses it clearance when it gets hot. This would just cook those bearings.  You don't see any of the guys testing them hard on a dyno day after day having problems. But they monitor the heat. Don't know but it will be interesting to see what the outcome is for sure.  Maybe the brg manufacturer had a batch of cages than are substandard     Either way I don't know if I personally like the design of the balancer and don't have the purchase of a M8 on my to do list.   Bob

[jbexeter]

Fact is HD are like microsoft and everyone else now, one engineering prototype, one production prototype and then declare it gold and release it to manufacturing and the buyers can be the beta testers.

But hey, AMF shovels were the bad old days eh.... LRFH

[hattitude]

But hey, AMF shovels were the bad old days eh.... LRFH

I must be the exception to the rule.

I was a lot younger and knew a lot less about Harleys.... but I had a '78 FXS. When it got stolen, I immediately bought an '80 FXS.... Loved them both!!!  33K miles on the '78 and 65K on the '80, only one user induced issue between the two......

[sbcharlie]

first in cincinnati the police bikes were 107 converted to 114  they had to use harley down loads
the problem is heat, not an oil problem. if it was oil problem there would be gauling of shaft and bearing would dis color.  bearing is made in India  probably with proper tune with some software maybe no issue   for me for piece go mind what i have left, I'm going to replace. plus my bike has no warranty anyway  its always a simple bearing issue when harley introduces a new model you would think they would learn  sbc

[rbabos]

first in cincinnati the police bikes were 107 converted to 114  they had to use harley down loads
the problem is heat, not an oil problem. if it was oil problem there would be gauling of shaft and bearing would dis color.  bearing is made in India  probably with proper tune with some software maybe no issue   for me for piece go mind what i have left, I'm going to replace. plus my bike has no warranty anyway  its always a simple bearing issue when harley introduces a new model you would think they would learn  sbc

Here's my take on it based on the info. Not the 114 or the tune, however if the tune is poor and being cop bikes, oil temps will go to the extreme. It's beginning to sound like the cage starts to break down at high oil temps as the failure point. What that temp is, unknown at this point but oil cooled engines might fail first. Like I said my vrod will run to 9k+ over and over with the same basic bearing. Big difference is being liquid cooled oil temps generally run in the 195 range. Hot, stop and go it will slowly sneak to 220 but I've never seen it higher then that. There is an optional oil cooler fan for these oil cooled bikes. Beginning to think it should be manditory and part of the package. High oil temps just might be the smoking gun here since most never monitor it. Then again, why would you with miles of miles of MoCo testing.
So a connection to the oil cooled engines and oil temps and cage failures need to be established. I've personally seen 300* once on my 07 softail factory tune, hot day, stop and go so entirely possible some of these engines can hit that temp also in the right conditions.
Ron

[14GuineaPig]

IIRC the fan assisted oil cooler is standard on the police model.

This is the kit to boost displacement to 114" as listed in the HD Police Model Brochure.  The kit lists for $1595.95.

SCREAMIN' EAGLE® MILWAUKEE-EIGHT™
STAGE III - 107CI TO 114CI KIT*
This kit was developed for the rider looking for a solid
"seat of the pants" increase you can feel – every time you
roll on the throttle. The increase in displacement and the
bump in compression deliver a significant increase in
torque and power over stock. The Stage III 107 to 114
upgrade delivers up to 39% more power when compared
to the Original Equipment engine configurations.
* Delivers increased throttle response throughout
the entire RPM range
* Produces flexible roll-on passing power without
a required downshift
* Delivers excellent stop-light to freeway speed
on-ramp acceleration
* Retains Original Equipment Factory Warranty
* 50-State U.S. EPA compliant
Kits Include the following Screamin' Eagle® components:
Screamin' Eagle 4.075" Bolt-On Cylinders / Forged 11:1
High Compression Aluminum Coated Pistons / High
performance Piston Rings / SE8-498 Cam / Screamin'
Eagle Performance Valve Springs / Screamin' Eagle High
Performance Tappets / Multi-layer coated Head Gaskets /
Cylinder Base and Cam Cover Gaskets / High-Capacity
Clutch Spring
When installed by an authorized Harley-Davidson® Dealer
at the time of vehicle delivery, these kits
do not impact the vehicle's limited warranty.
Fits '17-later Touring models equipped with 107CI
Milwaukee-Eight™ engine. Requires separate purchase
of Cam Drive Retention Kit P/N 25566-06. Installation
may require Cam Spacer Kit P/N 25928-06. All models
require ECM calibration with Screamin' Eagle® ProStreet
Tuner for proper installation. See Dealer for details.
92500056 Black Highlighted.

[borno]

According to SKF the plastic cage they use in their cylindrical roller bearing is rated for 250 F max or 300 F max

"Polyamide 66 (PA66), with or without glass fibre reinforcement, is characterized by a favourable combination of strength and elasticity. Due to its excellent sliding properties on lubricated steel surfaces and the superior finish of the contact surfaces, PA66 cages reduce friction, frictional heat and wear. PA66 can be used at operating temperatures up to 120 °C (250 °F). However, some synthetic oils and greases with a synthetic oil base and lubricants containing EP additives, when used at high temperatures, can have a detrimental effect on PA66 cages. For information about the suitability of cages, refer to Cages and Cage materials. "

"Glass or carbon fibre reinforced polyetheretherketone (PEEK) is popular for demanding applications where there are either high speeds or high temperatures or a need for chemical resistance. The maximum temperature for high-speed use is limited to 150 °C (300 °F) as this is the softening temperature of the polymer. The material does not show signs of ageing by temperature or oil additives up to 200 °C (390 °F). "

[rbabos]

According to SKF the plastic cage they use in their cylindrical roller bearing is rated for 250 F max or 300 F max

"Polyamide 66 (PA66), with or without glass fibre reinforcement, is characterized by a favourable combination of strength and elasticity. Due to its excellent sliding properties on lubricated steel surfaces and the superior finish of the contact surfaces, PA66 cages reduce friction, frictional heat and wear. PA66 can be used at operating temperatures up to 120 °C (250 °F). However, some synthetic oils and greases with a synthetic oil base and lubricants containing EP additives, when used at high temperatures, can have a detrimental effect on PA66 cages. For information about the suitability of cages, refer to Cages and Cage materials. "

"Glass or carbon fibre reinforced polyetheretherketone (PEEK) is popular for demanding applications where there are either high speeds or high temperatures or a need for chemical resistance. The maximum temperature for high-speed use is limited to 150 °C (300 °F) as this is the softening temperature of the polymer. The material does not show signs of ageing by temperature or oil additives up to 200 °C (390 °F). "

No argument there. Standard issue in the Compensaver kits for thrust washer. That stuff is awesome. It was researched, heavily tested and performed just like the company stated. Too bad someone else didn't take the time to test these bearings.
Ron

[1FSTRK]

According to SKF the plastic cage they use in their cylindrical roller bearing is rated for 250 F max or 300 F max

"Polyamide 66 (PA66), with or without glass fibre reinforcement, is characterized by a favourable combination of strength and elasticity. Due to its excellent sliding properties on lubricated steel surfaces and the superior finish of the contact surfaces, PA66 cages reduce friction, frictional heat and wear. PA66 can be used at operating temperatures up to 120 °C (250 °F). However, some synthetic oils and greases with a synthetic oil base and lubricants containing EP additives, when used at high temperatures, can have a detrimental effect on PA66 cages. For information about the suitability of cages, refer to Cages and Cage materials. "

"Glass or carbon fibre reinforced polyetheretherketone (PEEK) is popular for demanding applications where there are either high speeds or high temperatures or a need for chemical resistance. The maximum temperature for high-speed use is limited to 150 °C (300 °F) as this is the softening temperature of the polymer. The material does not show signs of ageing by temperature or oil additives up to 200 °C (390 °F). "

No argument there. Standard issue in the Compensaver kits for thrust washer. That stuff is awesome. It was researched, heavily tested and performed just like the company stated. Too bad someone else didn't take the time to test these bearings.
Ron

Testing? Looks like all they needed to do was read the data sheet before ordering.

[rbabos]

According to SKF the plastic cage they use in their cylindrical roller bearing is rated for 250 F max or 300 F max

"Polyamide 66 (PA66), with or without glass fibre reinforcement, is characterized by a favourable combination of strength and elasticity. Due to its excellent sliding properties on lubricated steel surfaces and the superior finish of the contact surfaces, PA66 cages reduce friction, frictional heat and wear. PA66 can be used at operating temperatures up to 120 °C (250 °F). However, some synthetic oils and greases with a synthetic oil base and lubricants containing EP additives, when used at high temperatures, can have a detrimental effect on PA66 cages. For information about the suitability of cages, refer to Cages and Cage materials. "

"Glass or carbon fibre reinforced polyetheretherketone (PEEK) is popular for demanding applications where there are either high speeds or high temperatures or a need for chemical resistance. The maximum temperature for high-speed use is limited to 150 °C (300 °F) as this is the softening temperature of the polymer. The material does not show signs of ageing by temperature or oil additives up to 200 °C (390 °F). "

No argument there. Standard issue in the Compensaver kits for thrust washer. That stuff is awesome. It was researched, heavily tested and performed just like the company stated. Too bad someone else didn't take the time to test these bearings.
Ron

Testing? Looks like all they needed to do was read the data sheet before ordering.

That would be too easy.
Ron

[hogpipes1]

What the hell after a couple rd. test on M-8's ,i had a sweet spot for the  heavy beast. Figured they would get the rocker arm side play,  & the pri. sucking the oil out of the trans figured out. But i'll be damn if i can enjoy a long  ass haul  down the rd to AZ,  listening to   Seger's against the wind , with out thinking about a F-EN bearing cage melting.

I hope the hell they never cheapen up a bottle of Jack. I just want to enjoy what's left in my life w/o paying for the stupid BS .

[BVHOG]

Ron, maybe you can develop a tray that directs oil to that bearing so then the moco can copy it and build it into the next castings?

[rbabos]

Ron, maybe you can develop a tray that directs oil to that bearing so then the moco can copy it and build it into the next castings?

I think I'd sooner get kicked in the nuts then go through that again. They are on their own this time. It will be interesting to see if any changes whatever that is, have made it into the 18 production units though and how the current 17s will be looked after. Could even have been a mid year bearing revision we don't know about at this point. Time will tell.
Ron

[Bike31]

Could someone point out the bearing here? https://serviceinfo.harley-davidson.com/sip/service/document/79422

Gary

[tmwmoose]

Crank case and filter,   index # 20,  part # 35200021

[FXDBI]

https://serviceinfo.harley-davidson.com/sip/service/document/79422#CRANKCASE_107

Part number 20     Bob

[Bike31]

Thanks for the P/N. Just curious. So was it the one that's blind holed in the right crankcase half that went bad? If so I wonder about the condition of the other in the left?

[rbabos]

Thanks for the P/N. Just curious. So was it the one that's blind holed in the right crankcase half that went bad? If so I wonder about the condition of the other in the left?

Could be wrong but based on where it sits both bores could be blind.
Ron

[Bike31]

Yes I see what you're saying...the balancer is contained in the crankcase and driven by the left crank gearing. Contained as noted here: http://www.harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php?topic=93218.0

Well then...maybe two bearings to eventually fail? Which one is shown in the OP's pics?

I wonder if one bearing gets more heat than the other from the scissor gear's friction on the balancer or ?

[rbabos]

Yes I see what you're saying...the balancer is contained in the crankcase and driven by the left crank gearing. Contained as noted here: http://www.harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php?topic=93218.0

Well then...maybe two bearings to eventually fail? Which one is shown in the OP's pics?

I wonder if one bearing gets more heat than the other from the scissor gear's friction on the balancer or ?

The way I see it , in theory the drive side should fail first if lack of oil is the issue. It, again in theory with less cooling oil flowing into it.  It could also have more heat in the bearing as a result of this.  That spinning gear will act like a slinger preventing some oil from getting to the bearing. I'd also like to know which bearing in the pic failed. It would narrow it down somewhat more as to whether it's oil or heat related or possibly both in case of the sprocket side. Mostly speculation at this point.
Ron

[FSG]

Could be wrong but based on where it sits both bores could be blind.

I'm surprised there's no dribble oil feed to the blind void, similar to the IPB.

Looking at the right side some preplanning (!) could have had a pressure feed to the balancer

[koko3052]

GEE....now all that we need is a few "riders" develop an oil diversion tray, like for the compensater issues, so that their engineers can come up with a fix!

[rbabos]

GEE....now all that we need is a few "riders" develop an oil diversion tray, like for the compensater issues, so that their engineers can come up with a fix!

I'm out. FSG has the right idea. Low pressure feed the right side, drilled balancer shaft feeding oil to the left side. As is stands right now, I'm not impressed.
Ron

[Bike31]

There's a bearing retaining fastener screwed into the case on both sides. Maybe that could be redesigned and used to feed some oil to the bearing (like hollow w/exit hole or ?). Hard to believe they'd expect just oil mist and splash to get there and lube/cool the bearing. The Stage kit upgrades must create stress in that location.

[jbexeter]

NR = 1,05 x 10–4 M n

where
NR    =   power loss [W]
M    =   total frictional moment of the bearing [Nmm]
n    =   rotational speed [r/min]

The cooling factor Ws is defined as the heat being removed from the bearing per degree of temperature difference between the bearing and ambient. If the value of Ws is known, a rough estimate of the temperature increase in the bearing can be obtained using

ΔT = NR/Ws

where
ΔT    =   temperature increase [°C]
NR    =   power loss [W]
Ws    =   cooling factor [W/°C]

[rbabos]

NR = 1,05 x 10–4 M n

where
NR    =   power loss [W]
M    =   total frictional moment of the bearing [Nmm]
n    =   rotational speed [r/min]

The cooling factor Ws is defined as the heat being removed from the bearing per degree of temperature difference between the bearing and ambient. If the value of Ws is known, a rough estimate of the temperature increase in the bearing can be obtained using

ΔT = NR/Ws

where
ΔT    =   temperature increase [°C]
NR    =   power loss [W]
Ws    =   cooling factor [W/°C]

Throw enough oil at the rollers then the temp can be read of the oil temp gauge for all the difference will be. Sure contact surface zone will be a hair higher but it won't get out of control and build temps high enough to be race unfriendly. If in fact that's what's going on but I find it difficult to see how these bearings in the blind hole current design and the gear acting as a slinger can get enough oil to cool.
Ron

[jbexeter]

Throw enough oil at the rollers then the temp can be read of the oil temp gauge for all the difference will be. Sure contact surface zone will be a hair higher but it won't get out of control and build temps high enough to be race unfriendly. If in fact that's what's going on but I find it difficult to see how these bearings in the blind hole current design and the gear acting as a slinger can get enough oil to cool.
Ron

Only times we ever used it in anger (in collab with skf) was to calculate oil flow to bearing required to carry away heat (thermal transport being the always overlooked property of lube oil) generated in the bearing, and it turned out the math to calculate heat generated in the bearing was horribly complex, and types of loads made a massive difference, the one thing I do remember clearly about that time was harmonics in the bearing load had a surprisingly large influence on heat generated in the bearing for any given load and rpm, and in our case the solution was simple but complex, a different bearing with a different number of rollers to reduce the effect of resonance between the load and the bearing.... the initial design had a gear (straight cut not hypoid) with a number of teeth N1 and the initial bearing had a umber of rollers N2 and N1/N2 was an integer.... very much an "aaahhhh..." moment when the skf techs explained all this...

(BTW this was around 1988 and each bearing was a few thousand bucks, I still have some of the balls from the ball bearings from further down the spindle and they are 2.5" diameter each)

[HD/Wrench]

You would think that HD would wise up with cheap bearings but we still see trans bearing failures after 10 years , trap door bearing failures again 10 years .. but the cost of the complete replacement unit is only 799  HA HA throw away parts .

[rbabos]

You would think that HD would wise up with cheap bearings but we still see trans bearing failures after 10 years , trap door bearing failures again 10 years .. but the cost of the complete replacement unit is only 799  HA HA throw away parts .

I think you are asking for too much. I'm still waiting for a fkg master cyl gasket that don't seep beyond 6 months using all known torques and methods of install. Fluid migrates up past the screw area to the top of the gasket eventually, then you see moisture collecting on the top lip side of the gasket as the DOT4 is exposed to humid conditions. Total garbage for how many years now? Yup, even got the revised lid and gasket . It was worse then the previous one.
Ron

[cmashark]

You would think that HD would wise up with cheap bearings but we still see trans bearing failures after 10 years , trap door bearing failures again 10 years .. but the cost of the complete replacement unit is only 799  HA HA throw away parts .

I think you are asking for too much. I'm still waiting for a fkg master cyl gasket that don't seep beyond 6 months using all known torques and methods of install. Fluid migrates up past the screw area to the top of the gasket eventually, then you see moisture collecting on the top lip side of the gasket as the DOT4 is exposed to humid conditions. Total garbage for how many years now? Yup, even got the revised lid and gasket . It was worse then the previous one.
Ron

Must be a Vrod. I've owned 3 of them and for some reason, it was only my Vrods that had this issue.

[happyman]

How many are known to have had this happen?

how many know and then how many were repaired by the owner.  the motor  co. never has any data on that.
 

[Pete_Vit]

How many are known to have had this happen?

how many know and then how many were repaired by the owner.  the motor  co. never has any data on that.

I know if at least one Indy that's trying to fix the issue for one of his clients , and he's not telling the MoCo

[rbabos]

You would think that HD would wise up with cheap bearings but we still see trans bearing failures after 10 years , trap door bearing failures again 10 years .. but the cost of the complete replacement unit is only 799  HA HA throw away parts .

I think you are asking for too much. I'm still waiting for a fkg master cyl gasket that don't seep beyond 6 months using all known torques and methods of install. Fluid migrates up past the screw area to the top of the gasket eventually, then you see moisture collecting on the top lip side of the gasket as the DOT4 is exposed to humid conditions. Total garbage for how many years now? Yup, even got the revised lid and gasket . It was worse then the previous one.
Ron

Must be a Vrod. I've owned 3 of them and for some reason, it was only my Vrods that had this issue.

Nope. Shared masters with some other HD brands. I have a 13 DX with the upgrade cover and gasket on the brake master. Worse then it's previous version.  They all will leak or seep eventually, starting with slow fluid migration around the screw hole area at the seal. Fluid migrates to the top of the gasket then collects moisture around the vent holes, which starts collecting on the top edge of the gasket face at the cap. Looked a fairly new tri glide the other day . Same "Potty mouth". Having one of my gaskets actually expand slightly, I'm not totally sure the gasket is completely Dot4 compatible for long term exposure.
Ron

[fbn ent]

Not to mention DOT 4 eats the black paint on the M.C. thus requiring replacement. "Might as well go with chrome controls for a few more dollars."