HarleyTechTalk

Quote from: HD Street Performance on March 06, 2016, 06:34:13 PM
I have a lab oven, good heat conformity.
250°F for 2 hours.
What is your take on the numbers?

What does a stock 103" cylinder do under the same conditions?

I don't know. Haven't got that far into measuring them. Plus you need to define used or new.

Quote from: HD Street Performance on March 06, 2016, 06:43:37 PM
I don't know. Haven't got that far into measuring them. Plus you need to define used or new.

Same conditions that you tested the 110" cylinders. You tell me, new or used!

Quote from: PoorUB on March 06, 2016, 06:37:52 PM

Quote from: HD Street Performance on March 06, 2016, 06:34:13 PM
I have a lab oven, good heat conformity.
250°F for 2 hours.
What is your take on the numbers?

What does a stock 103" cylinder do under the same conditions?

103 cylinders are more rigid.

Quote from: HD Street Performance on March 06, 2016, 06:34:13 PM
I have a lab oven, good heat conformity.
250°F for 2 hours.
What is your take on the numbers?

I have a mesquite smoker, 180F for 6-8 hours. Texas BBQ, yee ha!

All these numbers will only become usable data when you have numbers from other cylinders that we use to compare with.

Run the test on stock 3.75, 3.875, 4.060 cylinders, out of the box, used, tq plates, tq plate and heat, then compare all the results. Add in a set of stock cylinders bored to 3.927 because they will probably show the most movement yet have been around and used with high success for 10 years on many bikes for countless miles. Now you have a high and a low number to see where the new kits fall in relation. If we we start to see problems with the new drop in kits and their numbers are somewhere in the middle of the known working distortion tolerance of the other cylinders we can look to the sleeve material or the ring pack as a cause.

Just having an oven and saying they move means little, they all move, some more some less. The question is how much becomes too much. MCE has been very vocal with his opinion that stock cylinders opened to 3.927 is not acceptable yet they are out there and I see many with 30-40,000 miles that have good leak down tests, and do not use any oil. Are they round, who cares if there are no problems and no reasons to take the engine apart who is ever going to know if they moved or how much.

Max
Now you know why I am reluctant to post numbers.
I have a lot more but also have a busy schedule.

Nothing wrong with the numbers you posted, just incomplete.
Try to squeeze us in and share the rest, can't take long to attach an excel.

Quote from: HD Street Performance on March 06, 2016, 06:18:42 PM

Quote from: Max Headflow on March 06, 2016, 08:16:41 AM

Quote from: HD Street Performance on March 06, 2016, 07:40:46 AM
I have checked them in and out of plates,  heated and not.
Hope the work better than they measure.
I used 6061-T6  1" on the bottom and a head bolted on top with stock head studs and bolts. They were out before the preload and just as bad after

How about some numbers?

OK

That's well within HD Tolerance Specs.   

Just having an oven and saying they move means little, they all move, some more some less. The question is how much becomes too much. MCE has been very vocal with his opinion that stock cylinders opened to 3.927 is not acceptable yet they are out there and I see many with 30-40,000 miles that have good leak down tests, and do not use any oil. Are they round, who cares if there are no problems and no reasons to take the engine apart who is ever going to know if they moved or how much.

(QUOTE)

He is not the only one....some people are just way less verbal about it

  Makes him neither right nor wrong....its his opinion and mine

Better yet he owns a dyno and has done enough testing to say one way or another

  If you bore the engine to 3.927 and it makes less power than a good budget 103 with the pistons that

came with the engine ....all you did was spend money

Great info for sure and I'm sorry all the info I can provide on these kits is what we are seeing on the street and dyno. we have several 110"/117" kits in Daytona and i have been getting feedback that they are all running fine and have been all over the state of Florida in the past week. The higher compression 110"we did for our employee has been pounding on it for over 1000 miles now with no issues. Our TQ plates are at a machine shop that we use to bore our cylinders if needed so we have not put any 110" in plates.

Quote from: Tattoo on March 07, 2016, 04:50:38 AM
The higher compression 110"we did for our employee has been pounding on it for over 1000 miles now with no issues.

My 107" was awesome for 5,000 miles before it started to wilt away.

I am not saying the 110" are bad, we just need more time on them to see. Our local HD dealer has done a few, and recommends against doing them.

Ok I have to ask why would your local dealer recommend against doing them? did they have some go bad? has HD put out info that I'm not getting they are going bad?  we have dealers doing them to the North and South of us as well and once again no issues as of yet.

Quote from: 1FSTRK on March 07, 2016, 04:08:29 AM


Just having an oven and saying they move means little, they all move, some more some less. The question is how much becomes too much. MCE has been very vocal with his opinion that stock cylinders opened to 3.927 is not acceptable yet they are out there and I see many with 30-40,000 miles that have good leak down tests, and do not use any oil. Are they round, who cares if there are no problems and no reasons to take the engine apart who is ever going to know if they moved or how much.

Got any links.. There have been a few that have failed.. Do you have any idea of the what the ratio is between the good and bad?  What's the highest mileage recorded?

Quote from: Tattoo on March 07, 2016, 06:18:18 AM
Ok I have to ask why would your local dealer recommend against doing them? did they have some go bad?

They said they had trouble with them, but didn't go into detail about it. I didn't ask, didn't care that much either way as I am not in the market to buy anyway.

Quote from: PoorUB on March 07, 2016, 07:27:28 AM

Quote from: Tattoo on March 07, 2016, 06:18:18 AM
Ok I have to ask why would your local dealer recommend against doing them? did they have some go bad?

They said they had trouble with them, but didn't go into detail about it. I didn't ask, didn't care that much either way as I am not in the market to buy anyway.

Fair enough....   

Quote from: HD Street Performance on March 06, 2016, 06:18:42 PM

Quote from: Max Headflow on March 06, 2016, 08:16:41 AM

Quote from: HD Street Performance on March 06, 2016, 07:40:46 AM
I have checked them in and out of plates,  heated and not.
Hope the work better than they measure.
I used 6061-T6  1" on the bottom and a head bolted on top with stock head studs and bolts. They were out before the preload and just as bad after

How about some numbers?

OK

look like some damn good cylinders

We've got a few sets out- one particular guy was a bit weird- wanted only the drop on stuff, no cams, no heads??? I did- not overwhelming, 110 with the stock heads & cams- B motor barely made as much as a well tuned HO103 touring bike.

We had a couple guys want to run stock cams as well. 

Quote from: TorQuePimp on March 07, 2016, 04:46:47 AM
Just having an oven and saying they move means little, they all move, some more some less. The question is how much becomes too much. MCE has been very vocal with his opinion that stock cylinders opened to 3.927 is not acceptable yet they are out there and I see many with 30-40,000 miles that have good leak down tests, and do not use any oil. Are they round, who cares if there are no problems and no reasons to take the engine apart who is ever going to know if they moved or how much.

(QUOTE)

He is not the only one....some people are just way less verbal about it

  Makes him neither right nor wrong....its his opinion and mine

Better yet he owns a dyno and has done enough testing to say one way or another

  If you bore the engine to 3.927 and it makes less power than a good budget 103 with the pistons that

came with the engine ....all you did was spend money

You got a recipe for that 103 budget build? I have a 103 and the pistons it came with and I like to go fast.

   Check out the dyno section

several there...post started by 86fxwg or hardtail78