HarleyTechTalk

Gents I after a few measurements of the shim/spacer supplied in the Timken bearing in a crank conversion

Was hoping some of you fine gents got them on hand and can take some measurements of that shim for me?

Appreciate it Ando

Ando, to my memory, when you buy a Timken kit, the bearing spacer isn't set as a standard thickness. The spacer for the case, between the races should be a one size fits all. The actual bearing shim comes in a range from 0.090" to 0.120". And that thickness is determined when the bearings, races and the case spacer are selected and fit together. Sorry I don't have one that's not assembled to measure.

I've got a dummy shaft that is used to fit everything together in the left side case to measure the end play at engine setup. Saves pressing the flywheels in and out of the outer bearing and left side case. 

Added: I missed that this is a conversion to Timken. I've not done one, but know they are a bit different with the insert in the case.

The spacer you have may or may not be correct. You need to use a dummy shaft, load the bearing and measure the end play. Pick the right spacer at that point.

Gent thanks for the feed back I should of elaborated

I do use a dummy shaft and have always been on the money with the spacer supplied in the bearing kit from Harley.

I have a bearing supplier that can supply me with Timken bearings ( cup and cone) and was wanting to know the thickness of the spacer in the kit from Harley so then I could buy that spacer and several different size spacers to cover all bases when mocking up on dumby shaft.

cheers

The bearings come as a matched set with the supplied spacer. If you buy them individually your measurements will be all over the place.

I agree with Larry, but if in need to adjust, a surface grinder can be a great tool.
Note;
When using one to reduce the thickness of any internal trans or engine spacer be sure to demagnetize.

Quote from: wfolarry on June 07, 2017, 02:51:59 AM
The bearings come as a matched set with the supplied spacer. If you buy them individually your measurements will be all over the place.

Thanks Larry I understand what you are saying

Quote from: Scott P on June 07, 2017, 03:37:21 AM
I agree with Larry, but if in need to adjust, a surface grinder can be a great tool.
Note;
When using one to reduce the thickness of any internal trans or engine spacer be sure to demagnetize.

Funny you mention that. When I made my own insert for my 120 I had a bunch of spacers to play with. Almost none of them were exactly the same thickness all the way around the ring. Some varied as much as .001, most in the .0005 range. Thumb and sandpaper to level and custom fit the clearance to .0005-.001.  Not that it matters a rat's since the high point is the actual spacer effect but I like full contact, being anal and all .
Ron

You must tell your supplier to provide the bearing as a complete assembly.  The complete assembly is two cups, two cones one cup spacer and one cone spacer.  The correct Timken part number is LM67048-90026  The assembly is a matched component set up by Timken when they are packaged with a selct fir cone spacer, the cup spacer is same for all assemblies.

Quote from: 02FYRFTR on June 07, 2017, 06:13:10 AM
You must tell your supplier to provide the bearing as a complete assembly.  The complete assembly is two cups, two cones one cup spacer and one cone spacer.  The correct Timken part number is LM67048-90026  The assembly is a matched component set up by Timken when they are packaged with a selct fir cone spacer, the cup spacer is same for all assemblies.

Already onto that had have a couple on order

Quote from: 02FYRFTR on June 07, 2017, 06:13:10 AM
You must tell your supplier to provide the bearing as a complete assembly.  The complete assembly is two cups, two cones one cup spacer and one cone spacer.  The correct Timken part number is LM67048-90026  The assembly is a matched component set up by Timken when they are packaged with a selct fir cone spacer, the cup spacer is same for all assemblies.

if the "cup spacer" is the snap ring that goes in between the races,ive seen different sizes on them,dont EVER just assume you've got a "matched set" that the end play will be correct,especially when use a conversion insert,always check with a dummy shaft

OK now I have questions. The first time my TC had the conversion I was given the crank end play from the builder. I would hope/TRUST that the new (FTB) crank and Timkin bear assembly was a COMPLETE KIT (not just a new bearing on the NEW crank) as described in this post. Should the end play as installed to the cases be included in the paper work/build sheet?

Quote from: Templer on June 07, 2017, 10:04:29 AM
OK now I have questions. The first time my TC had the conversion I was given the crank end play from the builder. I would hope/TRUST that the new (FTB) crank and Timkin bear assembly was a COMPLETE KIT (not just a new bearing on the NEW crank) as described in this post. Should the end play as installed to the cases be included in the paper work/build sheet?

when installing a Timken conversion,there are no "used" parts to use,all the parts (insert,bearings,races & spacer) would be new as the old case didn't use any of these parts (I would hope any shop doing conversions wouldn't use old races & stuff),as far as being on your build sheet,i would assume whoever did the conversion & set the end play set it to the factory spec.we do here

Quote from: wfolarry on June 07, 2017, 02:51:59 AM
The bearings come as a matched set with the supplied spacer. If you buy them individually your measurements will be all over the place.

as long as its checked & the center spacer sets the end play where it should be,buying the parts seperatly wouldn't matter,but don't really know why anyone would buy the stuff seperatly though,its a lot easier (& cheaper) just to buy it as a complete kit

Quote from: prodrag1320 on June 07, 2017, 04:03:17 PM

Quote from: wfolarry on June 07, 2017, 02:51:59 AM
The bearings come as a matched set with the supplied spacer. If you buy them individually your measurements will be all over the place.

as long as its checked & the center spacer sets the end play where it should be,buying the parts seperatly wouldn't matter,but don't really know why anyone would buy the stuff seperatly though,its a lot easier (& cheaper) just to buy it as a complete kit

Cheaper, no way from what I have investigated down under. Easier I think you are right just not worth the pissing around

Quotewhen installing a Timken conversion,there are no "used" parts to use,all the parts (insert,bearings,races & spacer) would be new as the old case didn't use any of these parts (I would hope any shop doing conversions wouldn't use old races & stuff),as far as being on your build sheet,i would assume whoever did the conversion & set the end play set it to the factory spec.we do here

the TRUST thing is key  Builders comment about the need for a new bearing WOULD make me trust that the whole assembly was replaced even thou the cases/crank were done 35000 miles back. never asked for the old parts to see if the complete assembly "(insert,bearings,races & spacer) " was installed.

Quote from: Templer on June 07, 2017, 06:59:45 PM

Quotewhen installing a Timken conversion,there are no "used" parts to use,all the parts (insert,bearings,races & spacer) would be new as the old case didn't use any of these parts (I would hope any shop doing conversions wouldn't use old races & stuff),as far as being on your build sheet,i would assume whoever did the conversion & set the end play set it to the factory spec.we do here

the TRUST thing is key  Builders comment about the need for a new bearing WOULD make me trust that the whole assembly was replaced even thou the cases/crank were done 35000 miles back. never asked for the old parts to see if the complete assembly "(insert,bearings,races & spacer) " was installed.

if you had a conversion done,your motor didn't have Timken bearings or parts in it,thus no old parts to return to you.sounds like you have a serious trust issue with your builder (find another one) or just a mistrust of all builders (preform the work yourself)

The SE conversion already comes with the cup spacer doesn't it?  Last few we had done the matched set was pointless unless their exact cup spacer is used.  Ultima sells a complete spacer selection.

Quote from: prodrag1320 on June 08, 2017, 04:36:52 AM

Quote from: Templer on June 07, 2017, 06:59:45 PM

Quotewhen installing a Timken conversion,there are no "used" parts to use,all the parts (insert,bearings,races & spacer) would be new as the old case didn't use any of these parts (I would hope any shop doing conversions wouldn't use old races & stuff),as far as being on your build sheet,i would assume whoever did the conversion & set the end play set it to the factory spec.we do here

the TRUST thing is key  Builders comment about the need for a new bearing WOULD make me trust that the whole assembly was replaced even thou the cases/crank were done 35000 miles back. never asked for the old parts to see if the complete assembly "(insert,bearings,races & spacer) " was installed.

Got agree there, there is no way in the world I would do a job and use a miss match of old and new parts, I was just trying to work out a cheaper option for the punters without sacrificing quality, and the way I see it is if you can get a match cup and cone x 2 and then get the correct spacer to set up clearances as per spec's then win win

if you had a conversion done,your motor didn't have Timken bearings or parts in it,thus no old parts to return to you.sounds like you have a serious trust issue with your builder (find another one) or just a mistrust of all builders (preform the work yourself)

Quote from: joe_lyons on June 08, 2017, 05:52:33 AM
The SE conversion already comes with the cup spacer doesn't it?  Last few we had done the matched set was pointless unless their exact cup spacer is used.  Ultima sells a complete spacer selection.

the SE/JIMS insert has the "cup" or race spacer machined into it,so when using a complete timken set,the "cup" spacer that comes in the Timken kit isn't used,thats why its a must to check with a dummy shaft if a complete set or separate parts are used. keep a collection of center bearing spacers (bearing spacer,not race spacer) in stock & also use a surface grinder when what I have is still not the right size

to clarify my post: the crank and cases were converted to Timkin ( have pictures of the case with modes) from the OEM bearing 35000 mile back. When the new crank was installed to the ALL READY converted cases and the new Timkin bearing was installed to the S&S crank, I trust that the races,bearing,spacer etc was ALL replaced.I never asked for the old parts. I did sell the original crank with the old timkin bearing still installed on it. This post makes me thinkthat IF you ALL READY have the timkin setup installed,that IF you install another crank to the ALL READY converted cases that you would need a complete setup. NOT just the bearing for the new crank. CORRECT??

They could have left the old races in the case insert. You should be inquiring to the builder. If they're a reputable business, then I wouldn't question them at all.

Quote from: Ohio HD on June 08, 2017, 07:56:57 AM
They could have left the old races in the case insert. You should be inquiring to the builder. If they're a reputable business, then I wouldn't question them at all.

A little late now after 8500 miles on it!!
Thank ALL

Quote from: Templer on June 08, 2017, 07:54:17 AM
to clarify my post: the crank and cases were converted to Timkin ( have pictures of the case with modes) from the OEM bearing 35000 mile back. When the new crank was installed to the ALL READY converted cases and the new Timkin bearing was installed to the S&S crank, I trust that the races,bearing,spacer etc was ALL replaced.I never asked for the old parts. I did sell the original crank with the old timkin bearing still installed on it. This post makes me thinkthat IF you ALL READY have the timkin setup installed,that IF you install another crank to the ALL READY converted cases that you would need a complete setup. NOT just the bearing for the new crank. CORRECT??

OK,im understanding now.cant speak for other places,but here we would replace all parts (with the exeption of the insert itself))

Thank You Prodrag1320!!!