Need help with bolt in cam selection. 103ho Dyna

[shindig]

2015 Dyna Fat Bob has Vance and Hines intake and 2 to 1 hi output pro pipe short version.  Looking for a bolt in cam.  Will NOT be doing a piston or head gasket , or anything on the top end or adjusting compression no or in the future.  Peak numbers and WOT dyno pulls are great and all but looking for an actual good real world every day riding cam that has a decent torque in the mid range and hp up top.  The bike isn't lugged or babied but it doesn't live its life full throttle either.  The bike does do occasional long trips.  Basically an everyday ripper.  Mostly 1 up and rider weight is 185.  Looking at s&s, woods, fueling and Andrew's cams only.  Just found out about the tw5-6 and that appears to be a good choice.  Thanks in advance!

[MikeL]

Andrews 48 for long term bone stock. Andrews 57 if down the road you want to bump compression.
I have the 48 in my bone stock 2007 ultra
I had an Andrews 37 which is a low lift 57 in my 2000 RKC and it worked good in a bone stock engine it worked better with a compression bump.


                                                                                                                                                                    MIKE

[Finn]

Buddy has Andrews 48 and I have CR570-2 in our 103s. We are both very pleased with the cams.

[Barrett]

https://university.fuelmotousa.com/article/h-d-twin-cam-103-camshaft-shootout/
Here's a few to look at. That short HO propipe will change things from the Eseries they're using.

[PoorUB]

I have run Andrews 57 in a stock 103, a bit soft, it needs more compression than what Andrews recommends. I have the CR 570-2 in my 2016 Limited, no other mods other than a decatted head pipe and a TTS tuner. Still running the stock mufflers and AC.

I agree with the other post, that short Propipe might cause some cam selection issues.

[shindig]

I checked out the fuel moto article and it really just created more questions.   I was hoping for real world experience.  Thank you so far, keep them coming!

[kd]

I agree with the others on the short pipe but in consideration of the fact you are looking for mid range and up it probably will be OK.  That is where they typically perform.  The cam selection will have to be friendly with similar exhaust systems.   Sorting through some of the charts in the dyno section may give you a chance to compare if there are some close builds.  Using the exhaust in the search terms should help zeroing in on any that may be there.

[rigidthumper]

What's the tuning plan?

[shindig]

Techno research direct link

[Hossamania]

I checked out the fuel moto article and it really just created more questions.   I was hoping for real world experience.  Thank you so far, keep them coming!

I think that article at least helps eliminate all the hot-rod cams that are high revving power makers, according to your parameters.
For me in a light dyna, those are actually the cams I would be looking at. But, for your style the 48, 570-2 (not listed as one of your manufacture choices), 222, 103, 525, seem to fall into the band you're looking.

[C-Cat]

Ny nephew had the Woods 555 cams in his Road King with a .030 head gasket and FM 2-1-2. I thought it ran pretty strong compared to my then stock Roadglide.

[shindig]

Mid range and hp on the right side is what I'm looking for.  Not to concerned with the real low end.  However area under the curve and real world everyday riding is more important than a dyno at WOT.  Some of those cams that look like great choices (and people are recommending) have an intake opening of 41 to 46.  This puts the CCP at like 180 and below, corrected compression of 8.82 and below...  Everything I know says that makes a lazy combo in the real world.

[Finn]

CR570-2 intake opens at 14 and closes at 32.

There is nothing lazy with this combo. Except the owner. 

[rigidthumper]

Look in the dyno section for Tman 555 torqsters- I believe it's what you're looking for.

[Hossamania]

Look in the dyno section for Tman 555 torqsters- I believe it's what you're looking for.

A friend just had this put in his '13 StreetGlide and he really likes it, pulls well all the way through. I liked riding it.

shindig, sorry, I missed the part of your op where you're looking for mid and upper horsepower more than low end, I just was focusing on avoiding a lazy bottom end. The T-man 555 and the CR 570-2 would meet those goals, but the manufacturers are not on your list.

[mcouture]

I've got Woods 222 in my '15 Limited.   Noticeable bump in torque from 2K up to 4.5K.    Very smooth power curve and very drive-able.     I wanted torque down low due to this bike being our 2-up touring machine.  It lives between 2.5-3.5 RPMs....

[838]

We got 117/100 out of a 103 with the woods 555. It's all mid/top with a huge rise in tq/hp at about 2800. I'll search around for the graph. Definitely requires a lot of downshifting, but the low rpms are smooth. The 777 is the 555 "on steroids" so might be similar with a little more.

[Hossamania]

The term "good looking curve" is often used. I'm not sure that one qualifies, but it does look like fun in the sweet spot. Mine with an Andrews 55 is pretty much the same looking curve, get it into the rpms and it rips. Not a low end cam.

[838]

The term "good looking curve" is often used. I'm not sure that one qualifies, but it does look like fun in the sweet spot. Mine with an Andrews 55 is pretty much the same looking curve, get it into the rpms and it rips. Not a low end cam.

Agreed. Not a good looking curve... but it's realistic for what the OP is expecting from bolting in something of this nature. It's a fun scoot though if you like to downshift and rip at cruising speeds... it's caught me off guard a few times off the line and got ahead of my 117 too.

[PoorUB]

I would give up those seven foot pounds for this,

http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php?topic=99040.0;all

[boooby1744]

Like I always say,these newer bikes are geared a tad high. Especially the Dyna /Softail bikes.

[wolf_59]

Here a 103 I did for a friend with 48 cams and street ported heads, .030 head gasket and Thunderheader
[attach=0,msg1364991]

[shindig]

Thank you everyone for the suggestions.  For the time being I have decided to not do a bolt in cam.  I spoke with Steve at GMR and he helped out tremendously.  This is my buddies bike, and what limited us was budget.  He had enough just to do a bolt in cam.  Performance vs dollar is just not there, especially with the pipe he has.  We will wait until he can do at least a piston (to increase compression) or a 107/110 kit.

For everyone's information (maybe this is common knowledge and I just found out, again thanks to Steve!):  I found out in 2014 and up Harley's stock cam for a 103HO is close to the SE 255.  They routinely dyno at approximately 88/103.  A lot of the gains seen from a bolt in are after about 4500rpm.   And then there you see about 10/10 improvement.  So for pre 2014 103ho JUST a bolt in cam would be worth it, but not 2014 and up and again in my opinion.

[Adam76]

I checked out the fuel moto article and it really just created more questions.   I was hoping for real world experience.  Thank you so far, keep them coming!

I think that article at least helps eliminate all the hot-rod cams that are high revving power makers, according to your parameters.
For me in a light dyna, those are actually the cams I would be looking at. But, for your style the 48, 570-2 (not listed as one of your manufacture choices), 222, 103, 525, seem to fall into the band you're looking.

I've looked at the Fuel Moto dyno comparison "shootout " and the charts on their site for these cams many times.

Although it is helpful, I find that FM is so good with their tuning that they make every cam in their testing perform so incredibly well that there is not really much between them, and makes choosing one from their charts even harder 😂...
I also don't often see their results repeated quite as well by other reliable and reputable builders/tuners? I could be wrong. Not knocking them at all.

[PoorUB]

For everyone's information (maybe this is common knowledge and I just found out, again thanks to Steve!):  I found out in 2014 and up Harley's stock cam for a 103HO is close to the SE 255.  They routinely dyno at approximately 88/103.  A lot of the gains seen from a bolt in are after about 4500rpm.   And then there you see about 10/10 improvement.  So for pre 2014 103ho JUST a bolt in cam would be worth it, but not 2014 and up and again in my opinion.

As for the stock cams, fairly common knowledge here.

I have not dyno'd my 2016 Limited, but compared to the same bike stock, it will walk away from it. My buddy has the same 2016 Limited as I do and I dropped the CR570-2 into mine and he was so surprised to the difference he did the same. We were out in Montana and Wyoming and going up a long steep grade he was flat out in 6th gear and I  could roll up on him, drop the throttle and roll on up to him again.

2016 Limited, gutted the cat out of the stock head pipe, CR570-2 cams, stock mufflers and street tuned with a TTS tuner. Head have never been off. Durwood has done very similar hop ups shown in the dyno section.

When I first bought the bike I thought I was going to leave it alone until I ran against a 30 MPH head wind on the interstate. It would barely pull it and the engine just felt like it was struggling. After the work it will purr right along in the same situation.

Here is a 2014 103 with CR570-2 cams, exhaust and AC. And a PROPER tune!

https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,103878.msg1240052.html#msg1240052

[shindig]

PoorUB-  Exactly my point.  With all those upgrades it did 95/108.  If you just tuned a stock '14 up 103HO you woud get roughly 88/103.  So how much money would the average guy pay for parts and a good shop to do the work....?  Again, in my opinion not worth the 7hp and 5tq bump!

[Tail Ridr]

Are we comparing a twin-cooled against an air cooled...you know, apples to apples? I grew up paying $100/HP routinely on 2-strokes...is it worth it, only the one footing the bill and enjoying the outcome knows. The difference isn't just in the numbers on the paper...

[sfmichael]

While the '14-'16 bikes have a much better cam than previous years, they will still benefit noticeably with a cam swap - just not the level of improvement the '13 and earlier bikes feel

But best 'bang for the buck' on '14-'16 models is an exhaust system upgrade and a good dyno tune

[PoorUB]

PoorUB-  Exactly my point.  With all those upgrades it did 95/108.  If you just tuned a stock '14 up 103HO you woud get roughly 88/103.  So how much money would the average guy pay for parts and a good shop to do the work....?  Again, in my opinion not worth the 7hp and 5tq bump!

One thing a dyno chart will not show is improvements in drivability. It is just not HP and torque.

[Finn]

I thought my 103HO went with stock cam rather well. After installing of CR570-2 I realised I was wrong.

[shindig]

Maybe my point is being missed here...  I am not comparing a completely stock 14 up 103 ho not even tuned vs an intake exhust cam and tuned 103 ho.  I am comparing a 103 ho with an intake and exhaust WITH a tune to the same plus a cam.  The cost of adding a cam, in my humble opinion, is not worth it.

[Hossamania]

I think the cost of adding a cam is totally worth it. Once you do it, you'll understand.

[SB107]

I dropped the gearing, added some compression, got a valve job, did the 777 cam and the bike (Street bob) felt SO much different from my Stage 1 and tune. I felt it was worth every penny, probably the best bang for buck setup I've done.

[PoorUB]

Well shindog. I have a 2016 Limited. Did the exhaust and tuned it. It was much better than stock. Dropped in a set of CR 570-2 cams, it made a more than noticeable difference. Never pulled the heads. The one place the new cams did better than the stock cams was 80 MPH  interstate. The stock cams seemed sluggish, the engine felt like it was struggling. That went away with the CR 570-2.

[rigidthumper]

Added cams to a stage 1 96" Softail, went from 82 tq/63 hp, to 97 tq/91 hp, so 15 tq and 28 hp.  I think they can feel that (Or they need to recalibrate their butt dyno 😁 )

[sfmichael]

Maybe my point is being missed here...  I am not comparing a completely stock 14 up 103 ho not even tuned vs an intake exhust cam and tuned 103 ho.  I am comparing a 103 ho with an intake and exhaust WITH a tune to the same plus a cam.  The cost of adding a cam, in my humble opinion, is not worth it.

I didn't miss it
I stand by my previous reply. Only you can decide if it's worth it. And the only way you will know is if you've done both. I've done both over and over. To me it's worth it. On '13 and earlier, it's a major difference.
'14-'16 it's still quite noticeable.
Sounds like you've already made up your mind - stick with your plan. With a good exhaust system and a good dyno tune they run great.

[2013_FLHTK]

Maybe my point is being missed here...  I am not comparing a completely stock 14 up 103 ho not even tuned vs an intake exhaust cam and tuned 103 ho.  I am comparing a 103 ho with an intake and exhaust WITH a tune to the same plus a cam.  The cost of adding a cam, in my humble opinion, is not worth it.

A cam change is so much more than numbers. The right cam with the power shaped to your riding style and a great tune made my motorcycle so much more enjoyable to ride. It also gave me the chance to replace the lifters and inner cam bearings with superior components.

[shindig]

I am happy to hear people are pleased with their cam choice.  Thank you all for the feedback.

[Hossamania]

Some feedback on the Torquester 555: I had mentioned a friend put them in his '13 Street Glide. He likes them, they pull nicely. But he has been riding more two-up with his wife on the back, and feels they are not as torquey down low as he thought they might be. Work well when solo, just has noticed it more with his wife riding along (she's a bigger gal). However, still great midrange and top end power, and no slouch down low, even with her on. Just not a stump puller.
I'm not sure exactly sure how he is riding, maybe trying roll on, 55mph going into a slight grade? Don't get me wrong, he's not disappointed, just learning how it's working. He was also told it will respond well to headwork, which is in the plans. On a light bike like the OP's, I'm sure they would still be a good choice.

[sfmichael]

Some feedback on the Torquester 555: I had mentioned a friend put them in his '13 Street Glide. He likes them, they pull nicely. But he has been riding more two-up with his wife on the back, and feels they are not as torquey down low as he thought they might be. Work well when solo, just has noticed it more with his wife riding along (she's a bigger gal). However, still great midrange and top end power, and no slouch down low, even with her on. Just not a stump puller.
I'm not sure exactly sure how he is riding, maybe trying roll on, 55mph going into a slight grade? Don't get me wrong, he's not disappointed, just learning how it's working. He was also told it will respond well to headwork, which is in the plans. On a light bike like the OP's, I'm sure they would still be a good choice.

sometime me thinks we doth expect too much from these 900lb, 2 cylinder bikes... 

[Don D]

Consider the TTS-100 or 150

[Hossamania]

Some feedback on the Torquester 555: I had mentioned a friend put them in his '13 Street Glide. He likes them, they pull nicely. But he has been riding more two-up with his wife on the back, and feels they are not as torquey down low as he thought they might be. Work well when solo, just has noticed it more with his wife riding along (she's a bigger gal). However, still great midrange and top end power, and no slouch down low, even with her on. Just not a stump puller.
I'm not sure exactly sure how he is riding, maybe trying roll on, 55mph going into a slight grade? Don't get me wrong, he's not disappointed, just learning how it's working. He was also told it will respond well to headwork, which is in the plans. On a light bike like the OP's, I'm sure they would still be a good choice.

sometime me thinks we doth expect too much from these 900lb, 2 cylinder bikes... 

I agree.

[60Gunner]

S&S 570s. Look at those specs and the 555s. Put them in my stock '13 heritage and did great. Did the .030 and even better. 200 ccp. 190 ccp before the gasket change. Then did a 30 tooth solid sprocket cuz I'm an rpm junkie and just ride the 2 lane twisties.