Engine problems after 95" build part II - help needed

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But how good will you feel when you get it sorted?   

[Adam76]

But how good will you feel when you get it sorted?   

Yeah, will feel good. 👍
Thanks

[Adam76]

Well I took the camchest apart today and everything looked ok until I got to the oil pump... . Unfortunately  that metal is not my missing piece of oil rail...
I also see there's a bunch of metal chips and shavings in the bottom of the oil tank.... There's no way I'm getting off lightly with this one.

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[Ohio HD]

Since you now know for sure the debris went through the entire system. I'd also consider replacing the cam plate. You can try to flush it, but you can't know for sure.

[kd]

You may have reached the point you should sit back and take a deep breath and look at the big picture.  You 2002 engine is the last year for Timken drive side bearings and desirable.  Necessary    Depending on availability for you, consider a takeout softail engine and compare costs before sinking your budget any deeper into what you have going on.  You could even run a stock engine while you scrape together what you need to fix yours right (or maybe even better) on your own.  I`m feeling your pain and wondering what I would do if it was me and right at the beginning of riding season to boot.

[Armin]

Well Adam,now that you have enough evidence that your engine is contaminated with metal chaff throughout all oil passages a complete disassembly of the entire unit is dictated,that means replacement of all bearings, oil seals and associated parts. And like KD mentioned the replacement by a takeoff engine from a trustable source might save you a heap of dollars and hours of labour, thus giving you peace of mind. I can feel your pain and worries and wish you the most comfortable way out of your dilemma.

Armin.

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Camplate and anything else that's supposed to have oil in it or on it is fubar.
Lot of stuff for early TC's is NLA from moco. Have to try and source used parts or go aftermarket. And still got the crankcase to deal with.

So, everything looked ok until you got to the oil pump? Really? Post some pics of the other parts. Get that piece out of the oil pump and give us a better look at it.

Adam, I think it's you being polite but it's really not necessary to quote and reply to every post. Just add to the conversation, mate. We can keep up.


I am the world's slowest typer! Two more replies while I wrote the above. Yeah, what I'd said.

[Adam76]

Thanks guys, appreciate the replies, even though the news is not good.

Yes deuced, my way of being polite - will stop quoting everyone now 😁

It's crazy how much damage a small piece of broken oil support rail can cause....

[Adam76]

kd,  you mentioned swapping out the motor for another take out softail motor. What years / displacement will fit my bike?
Thanks

[Ohio HD]

Adam you need to stick with five speed Twin Cam Softail motors. So 88 inch is what you want to look for.

[Adam76]

Thanks Ohio, unfortunately we don't have the numbers of bikes around as you guys in the states do, and therefore take out motors are rare and expensive....

I'm just going to have to take my time and formulate a list of everything I need to do to fix my existing motor.

Thanks everyone for your support.
Cheers

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Any softail motor from 2000 to 2006 will fit. Yeah, you could probably find one, there's a couple of wreckers around the country, but my guess it'd cost you between 2000 and 4000 Australian dollars with freight depending on where you get it from. History and condition of used motor is unknown. Check local registration laws regarding engine swap. It's a big job probably best handled by a shop. I doubt a dealer would want anything to do with it so you'll need to find an indy. Add on labour charges. Also you have to get the bike and the motor to the mechanic. Ask around for some quotes.
Another option could be a replacement motor through the dealer. Check out HD's remanufactured engine program. Others have gone this route with success. It'd probably cost about $10,000. Benefits include keeping existing numbers, warranty, later model internals (hydraulic cam chain tensioner etc) and they'll come and get your bike. How many dealers near you? Talk to them.
Another option would be aftermarket replacement engine. It does not have to be 124" but will still be over $10,000. Plus labour because again, probably better to have a shop do it.
Cut your losses and sell it? You won't get much for it in it's present condition.

Doesn't cost much to keep dismantling current motor and it's good experience. Post some pics.
I reckon you're in for a shock when you add up the cost of all the necessary replacement parts. Don't forget labour because some things will be better to get a shop to do. Look mate, it is what it is. No point beating yourself up over it, what's happened has happened. You need to work out what is the best option for you now.

[kd]

Any softail motor from 2000 to 2006 will fit. Yeah, you could probably find one, there's a couple of wreckers around the country, but my guess it'd cost you between 2000 and 4000 Australian dollars with freight depending on where you get it from. History and condition of used motor is unknown. Check local registration laws regarding engine swap. It's a big job probably best handled by a shop. I doubt a dealer would want anything to do with it so you'll need to find an indy. Add on labour charges. Also you have to get the bike and the motor to the mechanic. Ask around for some quotes.
Another option could be a replacement motor through the dealer. Check out HD's remanufactured engine program. Others have gone this route with success. It'd probably cost about $10,000. Benefits include keeping existing numbers, warranty, later model internals (hydraulic cam chain tensioner etc) and they'll come and get your bike. How many dealers near you? Talk to them.
Another option would be aftermarket replacement engine. It does not have to be 124" but will still be over $10,000. Plus labour because again, probably better to have a shop do it.
Cut your losses and sell it? You won't get much for it in it's present condition.

Doesn't cost much to keep dismantling current motor and it's good experience. Post some pics.
I reckon you're in for a shock when you add up the cost of all the necessary replacement parts. Don't forget labour because some things will be better to get a shop to do. Look mate, it is what it is. No point beating yourself up over it, what's happened has happened. You need to work out what is the best option for you now.

Deuced, I found a 2006 Night Train engine withy gearbox west of Brisbane for $2600 (Auz dollars?) and it said negotiable.    I PM'd Adam with the particulars as I don't know where he lives shipping or pick-up wise.  I suspect it isn't the only one out there either.  Just the first one in a two minute search.  Drop the whole chunk in and roll?  Continue disassembling the old engine and making a list? It'll make a good project.  Maybe use the old cases and Timkin with the take out engine?  Lots of options for probably way less expense.  A rebuild for his as it stands will probably be twice that amount or more.

Added later:

It may come with paperwork that will justify the numbers change.

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$2600 with a gearbox? Yeah, that sounds ok. He's about 4000km (2500 miles) from there if you went in a straight line. That'd have to travel in a great big U shape to get to him. I'm guessing $500 to $600 freight. Nice find, kd. There's an '03 (motor only) on the bay for $2800. 15000km on the motor plus freight and it's nearly as far away. They are out there.

[FSG]

I have my brother in Melbourne looking for one,

maybee Scotty can ask around in Adelaide area, one at the right price will turn up

[Ohio HD]

I agree that looking for a suitable used motor would be the best solution. You could always plan a rebuild of yours at a later time.

I've been there too. When I upgraded my 96 inch to a 107 inch several years ago, the lower end couldn't take the additional stress and brass ended up going throughout the motor.

https://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,64176.msg688568.html#msg688568

This was my oil when drained.

[Adam76]

THANKS guys, really appreciate you helping me out with all the options available.

A used motor that 15 - 20 years old will come with it's own problems do doubt. Unless I find a really clean take out TC88, my best option might be to slowly dismantle and slowly chip away at rebuilding my motor.... Just not sure yet which way to go so I might just sit on it for a while.
Cheers.

[Don D]

Here is a photo from Hood Motors shop. I realize he is far from you but freight is cheap insurance the job is done once and right.

[Arseclown]

Adam, I found another softail 88ci engine in Dubbo nsw for you for $2,850 on eBay.com.au. 10,000 miles on it

"Engine off 2003 Softail Heritage Classic EFI . In good working order. 15900km
Will fit similar year models
VIN 1HD1BWB163Y068170
Looking at $100 to $300 freight to most major regional areas. Get in touch with postcode for firm freight quote."

[Adam76]

Thanks mate - I also saw that one. Bit suspicious of the kms... and buying interstate it's always a big risk. How would I get it checked out?
Cheers

[Arseclown]

Thanks mate - I also saw that one. Bit suspicious of the kms... and buying interstate it's always a big risk. How would I get it checked out?
Cheers

No worries. Use the Aussie forum and NSW harley Facebook groups of which there are many. Dubbo is a reasonably big town so there'll be somebody you can find who might check it out for you. Or find out who's a good mechanic or bike mechanic in Dubbo and pay for somebody to check it out. Ditto for the engine in Brisbane suggested as an option.

The seller in Dubbo is a bike part out business. 11,245 sales on eBay with 99.5% positive feedback. They have a website too you can check out to get an idea of service, returns etc and maybe call them

[98fxstc]

I got some parts off the guy in Dubbo. He is ok to deal with.
Not sure how you will get any assurances about a motor. The motor may have been going when the bike went in there, maybe it wasn't. I doubt he would be ok with somebody pulling it down before paying for it. A visual inspection is likely the best you will get.
Wait for Retroman, see if he can point you at something suitable closer to home, where you can get a look at it and ask some questions.
Then try Dubbo.

[Adam76]

Well I've definitely take a step back to consider my options....

I pulled the inner cam bearings today. I really wish I hadn't.

I'm in way too deep with this bike and the motor build to stop now. It's a good bottom end with low miles and only .0018 pinion runout.
I'm going to have to take it really slowly and split the cases to clean and flush it all out. The very difficult parts I will take to my trusted mechanic, otherwise I would like to do (and learn) as much of it as I can.

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[PC_Hater]

I assume you have the Harley workshop manual and parts book?
Just do it.
I took my 99 FLTRI motor apart without problems when the big end wore out - probably some manufacturing thing from it being a very early Twin Cam motor...
I read the manual for rebuilding the crankcase and getting the clearances right on the Timken bearings... and took it to the local dealer for them to do it! (kneel on a stool indeed!)
With the crank done the rest is just carefully bolting everything back on.

Being in the UK I found I could buy quality aftermarket oil pumps, lifters etc cheaper than from the MoCo. Being in Oz you may well find the same.
Did the oil pump cause the big end to go? Dunno, but I certainly wasn't going to risk it!
I fitted gear drive cams in the olden days before conversion cams. I would always go gear drive. With that cam cover sealed I'm not going in there again.

[Adam76]

Thanks PC-hater, thanks for sharing and giving me the confidence to do as much as I can and take the rest to a pro.
Cheers