Adding timing to 96"

[mike 120]

Has anyone added ignition timing to SERT map for SE A/C and race exhaust 96" map? Stock heads, cams etc, if so were the results positive?
Thanks
Mike

[Eleft36]

Not with a sert, with TMax/AT.

Added from and including idle to 3400. and remove some after 3400

Idles smoother and quieter and runs nice all the way up. also went to 14 on AFRs

Al

[mike 120]

Thanks, I'm going to give it a shot, going to add a few degrees across the range, not sure if stage 1 adds fuel or not, but it should being it is for the SE filter and pipes.
Mike

[mayor]

Not with a sert, with TMax/AT.

Added from and including idle to 3400. and remove some after 3400

Idles smoother and quieter and runs nice all the way up. also went to 14 on AFRs

Al

I've been playing with the map for my brother's 96", so I'm curious:   did you adjust the base map or per individual rpm map?  what base map# did you start with? and why pull timing out after 3400?  

here's the base timing (map523):


here's what I'm thinking:


I'm new to T-max, so I'm looking for some advice whether I'm on the right track.  

mayor

edited to post new modified timing graph that advances lower rpm's a little more (modeling after curve 1 of the SE adjustable carb ignition map)

[redmtrckl]

From what I have observed, tuners are sometimes adding 4 to 8 degrees pretty much across the board on stock maps with the Stage I upgrade. This added timing seems to help with the heat problem as well as performance.

On my 07 with the Tmax, I run 18 degrees advance at idle speed and a linear curve up to max 29deg all in by 3000 rpm, 13.5 afr.
Fatcat exh, big sucker and tw54 cams.

[mayor]

blk, would you mind sending me your map to look at? 

[axtell]

You need to look @ the timing at each throttle position..it is much different than the curve you show....I think you will be surprised..Ron

[05FLHTC]

Mike,

I looked for but could not find a post from BlackHills Ken about adding timing to the 96" stock motor that helped a great deal with reducing heat & helping performance.

Maybe he or someone else that recalls that post will see this & reply...

[Don D]

The Blackhills Ken post was related to a stock 96" with Delphi ECU and factory program. This Tmax is a different animal.

[redmtrckl]

blk, would you mind sending me your map to look at? 

I can after I get home from work.

[05FLHTC]

Has anyone added ignition timing to SERT map for SE A/C and race exhaust 96" map? Stock heads, cams etc, if so were the results positive?
Thanks
Mike

[Don D]

I think he incremented the whole map up at least 4 maybe 6 if I recall and reported added power, torque and less heat.

[mayor]

sorry Mike, kinda hi-jacked your post.  Looking for the same info though  (sorta).  Can you post the base timing map that the SERT starts out with in the 96"? 


'05, I think the post that Ken did was on the old MSN site.  I think it was in the dyno section over there.  I'm pretty sure Don is right that the bike "liked" a considerable amount of timing being added. 

You need to look @ the timing at each throttle position..it is much different than the curve you show....I think you will be surprised..Ron

yea, I looked at the individual rpm maps after my changes, and didn't think they looked too aggressive (with the exception of maybe 4096 rpm).  In fact, I thought of increasing timing at idle even more.  Here's after the base map changes:

based on info that BlackhillsKen, Sonny, and '05 posted on the "timing is everything" thread, I was thinking that I could increase the light throttle idle timing another 5-6 degrees? 

blk, I'll pm you my e-mail addy...thanks. 

[05FLHTC]

Mayor,

Just for my understanding, that map you posted adds timing to the ECM so the stock map plus those numbers = total?

[Don D]

The stock ECM is removed and replaced with a T-Max which was my point in the previous post. The T-Max is throttle position and motor speed based timing, the Delphi works with MAP pressure and engine speed.
To see the stock 96" map you would need the TTS to download it out of the stock ECM

[mayor]

Mayor,

Just for my understanding, that map you posted adds timing to the ECM so the stock map plus those numbers = total?

well I'm new to the program, but I don't think.  notice on the main map the timing is set at 10 degrees at around 1k (after my changes), and WOT is 10 degrees on the individual 1024 chart.  So I am reading the idle timing to be at 15-18 degrees (the TPS typically read around 10 degrees at idle). 

[05FLHTC]

30 degrees works well at idle, much smoother & cooler.

Take a look at some of the maps we have posted, specifically the ones Sonny posted from SE canned maps. Should provide you a good place to start from. Then time, more time & trials...

[mayor]

30 degrees works well at idle, much smoother & cooler.

Take a look at some of the maps we have posted, specifically the ones Sonny posted from SE canned maps. Should provide you a good place to start from. Then time, more time & trials...

yep, have a copy of the SE adjustable curve 1 (stock bikes) on my desk for reference.  Seems the T-max is pretty conservative compared to that chart.  Can anyone think of a situation where the throttle would be at WOT at 1k?  was thinking about advancing the main chart at lower rpm's, instead of the individual rpm ranges. 

[05FLHTC]

Mayor,

That WOT areas of the timing maps at zero & 500 rpm positions have some influence the cranking timing IME with the DTT & the SERT race ignition tuners. Maybe no biggie at 1000 rpm.

[Don D]

Considering we are not tuning for emmissions the best idle, if at 30 is fine but I tend to run about 20 there using the DTT on my own bike. You can create a dip in the map to prevent off idle pinging when heavily loaded / high compression/ high gears/ lower rpm range.

[JimB]

On a PCIII map.... is +1 deg advancing the timing or is +1 retarding the timing ?

My map is all 0's so Im running whatever the stock ECM + the PCIII is

Just something to play with when I have time on the dyno

[Don D]

It has been a long time since I have played with the PC but from what I remember the numbers are percentages only and don't correlate to degrees directly. Then there is the base map in the ECU which is a mystery so applying additions or subtractions is a bit of guesswork, of course the dyno can help especially with WOT. You will find at elevation the timing makes a BIG difference, adding that is.

[mike 120]

I'm starting with map 176AE104-A1, going to add 5 degrees across the board.
I do remember a post about these 96" bikes responding well to this, but can't seem to find it, it probably was on the old HTT.
Mike

[mayor]

I'm starting with map 176AE104-A1, going to add 5 degrees across the board.

Mike do you have the ability to post what the base map looks like?

[Don D]

Careful some of the off road maps are well equipped from the beginning.
Might want to email BlackHills Ken for details of his results
blackhills@optonline.net