KNOWLEDGABLE T-MAX TUNER, CLOSE TO RICHMOND, VA

[Quick_2s]

I am trying to find a tuner familiar with the T-max within a 1 day travel radius from RVA. My build is fairly different from any of the starting maps they have and with some fairly significant changes to the motor recently I am not seeing much of a change in my numbers. I.E. I went from 9.8-1 to 12.55-1 compression with new pistons and my TQ. numbers only went up 4 points. Everyone I have talked to seems to think it is a tune problem, but even with extensive mileage to let the auto tuner do its thing still no improvement. It runs smooth, the mileage is great but it almost seems to be de-tuned. I am adding a pro-pipe over the next week, and I'm going to groove my heads plus add a +4 degree key to my cams. Once that is done I'll be looking for someone to try and verify if this pig is tuned to where it should be or if I should be looking elsewhere for the reason. Its no slouch by any means at 125/120 but the build it was patterned after is 156/140 so something seems amiss. 

[FLTRI]

Nice story but no information to help you out.
1) What is your year, model, etc?
2) What is your exact build specs?
3) What is your CCP?
4) What is your mileage?
5) Do you have a dyno sheet w/AFR you can post?
NOTE: Going from 9.8 to 12.55 is huge and the timing mapping will need to be completely different.

With a little info we may be able to help shed some light on this for you.
Bob

[Quick_2s]

04 Duece
Stock Stroke, Balancers removed, Tiged, plugged, balanced.

4.25" Domed CP 12-1 coated pistons 21.51cc dome volume

Heads are 1.8 intake runner 2.1" intake, D-port exhaust 1.7"
Chamber is 96cc, .650 lift max.
.030 Cometic head gaskets
(I could give you the flow on the heads if I could get the image to post)

Cams 647 Gear Driven
INT          26/106/58     Duration 264   Lift .647   TDC Lift @ valve  .211
EX           58/106/26    Duration 264    Lift .647   TDC Lift @ valve  .211

Throttle Body
55mm body, 58mm manifold, 6.19gps injectors

CCP is 230ilbs. per hole

Mileage on bike is 22k, on motor is 3.5k

My 2 dyno sheets ( if I can find them on my desk somewhere) that I have don't show AFR because they were just baseline runs, I have the advanced software for the t-max I can send you the most current save from that if it would help. The other thing I noticed is that this thing runs cold, I mean on an 80 degree day this thing is pushing it to get to 200 on the dipstick.

[FLTRI]

Thanks for the info. Hopefully you will get some really good help here for this.
I guess my first observation is you must be experiencing terrible detonation with the new compression OR the timing map for the old compression was really retarded.
Second was the build you patterned after Delphi EFI with SERT tuned or Carb, or T-max?

[Quick_2s]

The build was a carb, I haven't had detonation issues unless I run a map larger that my compression like a 120 or 124 map. If I run a 113 down to a 107 it does fine just feels de-tuned between 3k and 4500 then surges like a rocket.

Actually that is the reason I'm going to the 2-1 and adding the 4 degree advance key to the cams. It wants to make all its power up top, I.E. its still climbing the horsepower curve @ 6250 when it hits the limiter. I had raised it to 7k for a bit and it was hard to keep a grip on plus every time I took it past 6700 it popped the headlight bulb.

[mayor]

am I reading this right: your ccp is currently 230#, and your going to increase it with a 4 degree gear to improve mid range performance?  have you thought about just looking at cams with less duration (bringing tq curve on earlier)? 

[Quick_2s]

I have thought about that and my ides was to go to .060 on my head gaskets which according to the comp calc should drop me down to around 11.6-1 plus grooving the heads should bring it down a slight bit more. I don't know what do you guys think? According to the calc the corrected compression with the cams closing @58 should be around 10.38-1 as it sets, its not a hard motor to turn over and it takes about 6-8 strokes to get it up to 230 on the gauge.

[Quick_2s]

I've got 2 different maps I've ran, 1 works fine but feels weak, the other feels stronger but has detonation. Comparing the 2 next to each other I'm wondering where the middle ground would be. If anyone cares to take a look at the 2 here they are. They were both saved with the advanced software.

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[Quick_2s]

Here is the other, it runs stronger but I get some detonation at steady cruise RPM.

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[Yo J]

John Meade of Pro Street Cycles Richmond VA.  www.prostreetcycles.net

The whole staff is very friendly and John does quality work...

www.prostreetcycles.net .

[Quick_2s]

Yeah I know John very well, but he sold his shop and moved back to AZ to instruct at MMI, and took his dyno trailer with him.

[FLTRI]

Here is the other, it runs stronger but I get some detonation at steady cruise RPM.

Based on your input you either have an ignition map that is so far advanced it doen't even need a load to detonate (which should make the bike unridable because of pinging) OR you are mistaking typical 2500-2800 rpm valvetrain noise for detonation.

[Yo J]

>>Yeah I know John very well, but he sold his shop and moved back to AZ to instruct at >>MMI, and took his dyno trailer with him.

Bummer - Best Tune I ever had.

[Quick_2s]

I'm hoping that with the change to 0.06 head gasket, grooving the heads and the pro-pipe I'm adding that maybe I'll get the tq. moved own into the range I want it in and I'll be able to just enjoy it for awhile. But I still feel like there is a tuning issue there because the canned starter maps arent really anywhere close to what I have. I should just throw a 4.25 stroke crank in it and be done with it.

[Quick_2s]

Now John did say he would tune my bike for me if I want to ride it out to AZ. to catch up with him.

[se]

JD's cycleworks in PA he tunes with the t-max. ask for Dave 1-610-297-0321
http://www.jdscycleworks.com/
not for nothing but there have been a few guys running the t-max with big builds and they removed the t-max and went with the TTS or SERT.
bikes run way better. you might be at the limits of the capabilities of the t-max .

[redmtrckl]

If I read this right you have a 114" build that is nearly the same as mine and running the zippers 647 cams same as me.
I can tell you the mine dows best with max timing at 26.5 deg on 11.1 compression. With you higher compression I would be looking at max advance closer to 25deg.
These big cam big inch motors don't need over about 27deg max depending on compression.
Mine is carbed, yours is ? injected?---shouldn't matter as that is just fuel flow/metering.
Try building a timing curve with the software that starts at about 15deg from 1000 rpm and increase in a linear line till it's all in at 2500rpm with a max of 25-26 deg.

[Quick_2s]

What kind of numbers are you pulling from yours and on what pipe, I was running Bassani pro streets but am currently switching to a pro-pipe with a modified baffle. Mine is currently getting 125/120.

[redmtrckl]

With clutch slipping---fixed with scorpion clutch but don't know numbers now.

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[Quick_2s]

What pipes?

[redmtrckl]

D&D Boarzilla with quiet baffle made the most power. Pipe is still on.

[Bigs]

I don't know if they do any programing at Zippers in Elkridge, MD or not. When we were at Delmarva Bike Week, Zippers were there and I told them that I didn't the Auto-tune was working right. The guy said bring it in and he would look at it. He had his computer hooked up to it for about 25 minutes and seemed to be punching the keys all the time. When he finished I left and haven't had any problems with it. It runs smooth from idle to wide open throttle. Evidently the map they told me to use was out of range for the Auto-Tune to work properly.
   Bigs

[Quick_2s]

They are close enough to work if they can do it, I'll give them a call.

[Quick_2s]

I talked to Randy with Zippers late yesterday he is going to check with the shop and see if they can bring it in to tune as an r&d bike since they have gotten a few calls about the 114's and have no base maps for them, he is telling me to use the 107 or 95 maps because the share the 4" stroke with the 114's and that stroke is more important to the correct base map than actual displacement. I would just have to figure what global fuel offset to apply after correcting for injector size. I installed the pro-pipe Wednesday and even without the baffle in every time I roll into the throttle hard in first gear the tire breaks loose. The baffle arrived late yesterday and I put it in so as soon as the roads dry out I'll be taking it for a scoop with the new map (#500) and pipes. I think I'm gonna lower my rear tire pressure to try and get a little better bite. 

[FLTRI]

"I think I'm gonna lower my rear tire pressure to try and get a little better bite."
The lower the pressure the better the launch grip and the worse the bike will handle.
Keep her going in a straight line with low pressures.