SE-211 cams

[FLTRI]

Just can't beat the nasty, bad AZZ idle sound of a 211. 251s work fine, just don't have that hotrod cam sound at idle.

[Don D]

They are very close actually but by virtue of the 101 LC on the intake (211) this increases the overlap not just the duration. The LSA goes down 1 notch and this becomes a cam that has the potential to cover both bases better IMO. My own 251 2002 carb motor I built made awesome power but was slow revving, the heads were T-Man CNC, Top Shelf.
When I was doing top ends a lot the 211 impressed me because it seemed to come close to doing it all. The 251 and 257 builds at similar compression had virtues too, of course the ultimate result is the combination "sum" of the parts.

[hotbo]

The SE cast high compression pistons will get you to the right compression.  I know as I have done it.  Look at my signature.

One more way to get to the same end, I prefer the lower dome for flame propagation reasons and less chance of detonation. Certainly easier to not mill the heads

don even with the small dome wouldnt you better to run the flat tops and mill the hell outta the heads for better flame travel????maybe not just asking?

if you run flat tops how much would you have to mill in general to get 10.5 or in the ball park.

[mayor]

if you run flat tops how much would you have to mill in general to get 10.5 or in the ball park.

not a head porter, but my guess is somewhere near the first fin.      +/-.075"? 

[mayor]

In the 95 a small dome (SE Forged) and head milling will put this in the perfect range, then just mild headwork to optimize.

how much smaller of dome is the SE forged?  I thought PHR (and John Sachs earlier) measured the forged to be around 8cc.  What volume are the hi-comp cast?

[machinist]

wanabe,
If you started with fairly small chambers and mill .050" off you might get to 78cc, for example.
With flat tops and .030" gaskets you get about 10:1.

[mayor]

yea, but the question Travis had was how much to get to 10.5:1.  I would have to think that 10.5:1 is stretching past the limits of a flat top piston in a 95".   

[Don D]

Right which is why I suggested the 9.5/1 advertised forged $249 HD pistons and a lighter mill. Nothing wrong with the heavy mill too but for the average assembler it would piss them off with the mods to get everything to fit properly, so cutting edge is bleeding at that point. The small dome piston and heads milled works and duplicates the SE Pro heads with a small dome which also works well with the SE211

[buffalobill]

I guess i opened a can of worms. My thoughts began after reading article on Joe Minton build then talking to local HD . We have very limited resorces here in WY. Like I said before not interested in peak # bike will probably never be dinoed . Just want good  seat of the pants, no ping, ( I dont lug it ) & reliable. I enjoy reading all posts  thanks

[mayor]

I guess i opened a can of worms. My thoughts began after reading article on Joe Minton build then talking to local HD . We have very limited resorces here in WY. Like I said before not interested in peak # bike will probably never be dinoed . Just want good  seat of the pants, no ping, ( I dont lug it ) & reliable. I enjoy reading all posts  thanks

well why didn't you say so.  Big bore, Andrew 26's and SE flat top's should make you pretty happy.   

[Faast Ed]

I guess i opened a can of worms. My thoughts began after reading article on Joe Minton build then talking to local HD . We have very limited resorces here in WY. Like I said before not interested in peak # bike will probably never be dinoed . Just want good  seat of the pants, no ping, ( I dont lug it ) & reliable. I enjoy reading all posts  thanks

203's, 204's, 37's,..... all fit that bill, they'll even give you some fun on top along with the low end grunt.  Dyno queens? No, but plenty of fun to ride.

[Faast Ed]

BTW: The 204's have the racy sound too. When I had them on the last bike, I heard comments every time I went out about how sweet it sounded.
Many thought that I had much more motor than I did.

[FLTRI]

"I have a friend with SE-211 cams in a heritage 103 no headwork & loves them . I'm considering them in my 06 streetglide 95" no headwork. Any thoughts?"

Again, the 211 is a great cam with or without compression or headwork. Go with what your bud has and you can keep it simple and use HD parts, which work just fine.

NOTE: 203-204s will be definitely better down low, but if you are a hotrodder the 211 cams are definitely the choice, IMO

NOTE: If yours is EFI you will need to get it dyno tuned as the 211s are unlike any other cam HD has, so none of the canned downloads will be close. If it is carbed no worries for tuning.

[skyhook]

this is an unusual thread...I'm waiting for the naysayers to chime in claiming all screamin' eagle stuff is crap...what has the world come to?

[FLTRI]

"IMO a 95" build with flat tops coupled up with SE 211 cams & stock heads is gonna make a slug."

One would assume that but for whatever reason, that is not the case. Just ask anyone who has put 211s in an otherwise stock engine. They will verify it is not a slug.
When I worked for the MOCO (98-03) we did prolly 2-3 a week with every one a happy camper, especially dyna and softail owners. No detonation, great midrange power, and killer idle sound.

[Clintster]

If I remember I was around 90 #, with a TB and Rhineharts and a DFO.  Stock everything else 95, stock heads, flat tops and bb juggs out of the box.  Felt like a little bigger motor on the lower end, when it hit it's powerband, 3k and up it would pull to 6200.  Header may have helped lower end.  Everybody said don't do it to a bagger, but I sure enjoyed it.

[skyhook]

like I said before...my first big twin build was 05 flhr, 88", SEp heads, 211 cam, slip-ons...I thought it kicked azz until I rode my friend's vtx1800...then I NEEDED a 103 lol

[Tattoo]

I have also found that the SE211 cams work well with the 3.37 gear ratio..

[mayor]

"IMO a 95" build with flat tops coupled up with SE 211 cams & stock heads is gonna make a slug."

One would assume that but for whatever reason, that is not the case. Just ask anyone who has put 211s in an otherwise stock engine. They will verify it is not a slug.
When I worked for the MOCO (98-03) we did prolly 2-3 a week with every one a happy camper, especially dyna and softail owners. No detonation, great midrange power, and killer idle sound.

Bob, the dealership you worked in used 211's with flat tops and stock head chambers? did they use stock head gaskets as well?    why?  The 211's with increased compression is one thing, but at sub 8.4 corrected?  I can't help but think that would be soft on the bottom. it might feel like it pulls strong once it gets going, but maybe that's because it's starting so weak.  (lol)

I did some searching on the old site and found this:
http://groups.msn.com/HarleyTechTalk/dynoruns.msnw?action=get_message&mview=0&ID_Message=835884&LastModified=4675558253316637730

here's the charts that was posted on that thread (these are not my sheets, just re-posting of the sheets from that thread):
1550, stock heads and flat tops:


1550, stock heads and hi-comps pistons:


Just posting peak numbers don't tell the whole story.  Those charts have similar peak numbers, but I'll bet they aren't similar rides.    now, let me ask- which of the two would you want in a bagger?

[hotbo]

if you run flat tops how much would you have to mill in general to get 10.5 or in the ball park.

not a head porter, but my guess is somewhere near the first fin.      +/-.075"? 

thanks mayor that cleared that up :up:never been around the 211s but from what you guys say they are good ones with some compress.

[Don D]

It doesn't help to discuss the cam out of context of a build or taking a worse case and comparing with other builds that are optimized.
According to the Wild things literature and website you can bolt in the TC2 also into a stock motor. Of course it works but as we all know that is not optimized either and would be soft in low rpm range.
I have worked at a dealer too and the 251 was bolted into stockers and it was a slug down low. All of this is predictable, just do the math as mayor has done.

[mayor]

yep I agree with everything you just said Don. Optimized is the key word.     part of that is running the cam (any cam) in a compression range that is suitable based on that cam's intake close. 

[hotbo]

well put guys. 

[slo-poke 03]

Having read all this I know we are talking about a 95ci, but there was alot of good info thrown out here. I was thinking of using the 251s in my 07 bagger with 103 FTs, stock heads but now I am wondering if the consensus is the 211s would be better in that combo. would it have enough compression? that 1 posted dyno looked like the torque came on fairly soon.

[mayor]

I would think either is going to work pretty good in a 103".  Keep in mind the larger the engine the smaller the cam acts.  There's a couple or so real good 103" SE251 builds in the dyno section (generally good for around 100/100 with stock '06 and up heads with the right supporting cast).  In the 103", flat tops have more compression.     If the head chambers are around 85cc, you would be somewhere around 10:1 static with .030" head gaskets. 
here's two 103" SE251 builds to check out:
http://harleytechtalk.net/htt/index.php?topic=928.0

http://harleytechtalk.net/htt/index.php?topic=697.0