SE-211 cams

[buffalobill]

I have afriend with SE-211 cams in a heritage 103 no headwork & loves them . I'm considering them in my 06 streetglide 95" no headwork. Any thoughts ?

[wfolarry]

A little headwork & that 95 will be driving right by that 103

[Tattoo]

I got great results with the 103" and Se211 cams. I posted the results in the dyno section.

http://harleytechtalk.net/htt/index.php?topic=125.0

[mayor]

211 need more compression than just flat top pistons will give you in a 95", so keep that in mind when determing what pistons you are going to need.   

[Scramjet]

That cam is perfect with the SE cast high compression piston and no headwork.  The wife 06 FLSTN Deluxe ended up with 91HP/94TQ using PCIII and cycle shack mufflers.  No deck check, stock head gasket and a quick tune.  I have said numerous time that this is a great budget build for 95" and no headwork.

Imagine what it could do if you tweeked it some.

B

[ameagle13]

My favorite build for someone who doesn't want to do any head work.  Here is an 06 FLHX like yours.
SE a/c, stock throttle/body w/ SE 4.89gms/sec injectors(don't have to have them but I like them on 06's), stock heads, 103ci, SE high compression forged pistons, Cometic .030 Head Gasket, SE 211 Cams, Rinehart Tru-duals, SERT tune.  I know this build is accurate b/c I built and tuned it.  You can't go wrong with this build if your coming from stock IMO.

Good Luck,
J

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[Don D]

Add some compression (about 10.5) and a little head work and this cam can work real well. Has a nice semi bad ass idle

[mayor]

My favorite build for someone who doesn't want to do any head work.  Here is an 06 FLHX like yours.
SE a/c, stock throttle/body w/ SE 4.89gms/sec injectors(don't have to have them but I like them on 06's), stock heads, 103ci, SE high compression forged pistons, Cometic .030 Head Gasket, SE 211 Cams, Rinehart Tru-duals, SERT tune.  I know this build is accurate b/c I built and tuned it.  You can't go wrong with this build if your coming from stock IMO.

Good Luck,
J

AE, are you sure that's in an '06 and not an '07?  the '06 are still the 88" with the big bore being a 95".  or did you stroke the engine as well? 

[mayor]

I would think that the 251's would give a broader more usable torque curve than the 211's (in a 95") and they are OK to use in '06 and up heads. 

[ameagle13]

Good catch wanna.  The bike IS an 07 not an 06.  Still a great build.

Good Luck,
J

[blk-betty]

Last bike, 02 FXST, started as a low budget 95" build.  Stock un-touched 02 heads, 0.030" Cometics, SE 211s, SE High Comp forged pistons, SE air filter/backing plate with CV 40 and V&H Straightshots.  CR was somewhere around 9.6-9.7:1.  Made 99tq and 88hp with the crappy exhaust on an older DJ 150.  Was a little soft on the bottom (dyno showed bad tq dip in the sweet spot) but ran real nice above 3K rpm.

Eventually ended up with a full HQ 10.5:1 build but for a low budget build the 211s can work well, especailly if you get the CR up to or above 10:1.

[Clintster]

I ran 211's in my flat top 95 with stock heads.  It had a TB and True duals, was tuned well, it was soft on the bottom.  Later ran them with my high compression heads and pop ups man woke it up.  It was a good cam for me, because I did my build in stages.  Later got the bike funds up and upgraded to the porters cams and gear drive.  They have nice exhaust note, more so with the compression.

[buffalobill]

I had a 2000 dyna 95" with headwork , andrews tw55 cams ' had a terrible problem with pinping don,t want the same problem with the se211,s. just want torque

[mayor]

more torque huh, then I agree with this guy-   

I would think that the 251's would give a broader more usable torque curve than the 211's (in a 95") and they are OK to use in '06 and up heads. 

 
if your on the cheap -251's with hi-comps or if your budget allows I would listen to this guy:

A little headwork & that 95 will be driving right by that 103

although if head work is an option, then I would switch cams to a slightly smaller one too. 

[FLTRI]

As a tuner I have always been impressed by how well the 211 cams work in a budget build: No compression increase and no head work. Sound like a nasty build at idle with good mid torque/hp.

Will they work better with head work and more compression? Of course. 95" dome tops = 100/100. Not bad for no head work, and more with head work.

[skyhook]

what ameagle described is the build of choice at our local dealer...good power, can run on 87 octane, low comp with no ping even at sea level, 100* F and 60% humidity in parade duty...not many builds can do that!

first big twin buld I had was 05 flhr, SEp heads,  se spec head gaskets, stock pistons, slip-ons, pc3, 211 cam...needed more comp for the lowrange, but pulled great through the midrange

[Vosselman]

dealer build:
02 fxdx, stock heads, 95ci with 8cc se/arias pistons, se211, supertrapp supermegs


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[ameagle13]

If I did the build with a 251 instead of the 211 I would change the springs.

Good Luck,
J

[skyhook]

guy named phil is the performance tech at new orleans h-d...got into debate with him few weeks ago...he claims 211 makes more power than 251 in '07 and later 103...I said bull, but also asked the question here...one of our member head porters said he agrees that the stock '06 and later heads respond better to 211s, due to the shape and flow ratio of ports...now the main premise of phil's argument is keeping corrected comp in the low nines, so I ain't sayin' 251 won't pull better at 9.5 corrected...also he likes t-header, not duals (this is not a dig at ameagle!)

[Flat Dog]

If I did the build with a 251 instead of the 211 I would change the springs.

Good Luck,
J

Are the pre 07 heads/springs that much different than the current ones? Just wondering.

I have the 251s with stock heads (08), and they are noisy buggers, but the torque curve is sweet and ready to use on demand. I have heard no complaints at all about the 211 cams either.

[mayor]

maybe I'm a little of base here, but I think many of you are talking about the 211's in a 103" when the original poster is talking about a 95".  I wouldn't disagree that the 211's will make more power in a 95" (if we're talking HP) than the 251's, but the torque curve is towards the right end of the scale compared to the 251's (which will make the 211's take a little longer to spool up- i.e. have an early flat feel which I wouldn't think is very desirable for an 800# bike  ). 

I also think either cam is going to need more compression than flat tops will provide in a 95".  The '05 and up heads have beehive springs which are fine with the higher lift of the 251's (although the '05 heads had the old style ports). 

[Don D]

"but the torque curve is towards the right end of the scale compared to the 251's"

Why?

In the 95 a small dome (SE Forged) and head milling will put this in the perfect range, then just mild headwork to optimize.

[Scramjet]

The SE cast high compression pistons will get you to the right compression.  I know as I have done it.  Look at my signature.

CCP with the stock head gasket will get you to 185 psi.

I would use a Cometic .040 or SE .045" to bump it up to just a bit to around 190 psi.

B

[Don D]

The SE cast high compression pistons will get you to the right compression.  I know as I have done it.  Look at my signature.

One more way to get to the same end, I prefer the lower dome for flame propagation reasons and less chance of detonation. Certainly easier to not mill the heads

[mayor]

"but the torque curve is towards the right end of the scale compared to the 251's"

Why?

In the 95 a small dome (SE Forged) and head milling will put this in the perfect range, then just mild headwork to optimize.

good question, we'll see if I can make a compelling argument why I believe this.  Keep in mind I only said to towards the right compared- which is not the same as only on the right.    I'm not trying to suggest that the 211's aren't a good cam or that economical builds can't be created with them.  I'm only saying for a 95" in a bagger I think the 251's would be a little better.  This is why I think that the 211's peak torque is towards the right of the 251's-


Now I admit that there are many things relative to a cam that determines peak torque and torque curve and by no means am I an expert or even qualified to state a scientific opinion about this for that matter.    In this case I base what I said on simple math.  Please let me know if I'm looking at this wrong.  Keep in mind I'm saying this considering all other components being equal (although the other components can affect each differently). 

1. intake closes are similar (45 degree compared to 46 degree), so compression operating range is similar. 
2. the 251's have a shorter duration which moves the curve to the left of the 211's-
3. the 211's have a greater overlap which tends to carry the torque out further (HP)- good if you're looking for peak numbers- not so good if your looking for early torque
4. the 251's have a higher lift which tends to help make the cam appear bigger= broader curve?

IMO cams are always a compromise.  No one cam can do it all- I.E. pull early and pull late.  The efficient operating range created by the cam is still limited to a section of the typical operating rpm's of the motor.  The cam typically controls where that range is (although factors like compression, head work, pipes etc. affect this as well, but like I said for this application let's assume that the only difference is the cam).   Personally, I think what happens too frequently is people get wrapped up into peak numbers, so they jack up the compression to account for lack of efficiency in the lower rpm's when using big cams (which is relative to engine size- i.e. 211's in a 95" are bigger than 211's in a 103") eventhough most riders rarely see north of 5k and up regularly (especially in a bagger).