nyc just got WORSE

[shovelbill]

read all about the latest commie "Potty mouth" comming down the pike.

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2008/12/10/2008-12-10_bikers_wont_like_sound_of_this-2.html

[Lew]

truly a serious problem..........
Only for clowns that have nothing better to do than worry.
FBS 

[Skullfork]

It gives police "an extra tool to get at what is truly a serious problem," said Councilman Alan Gerson.

What a friggin' idiot!!

[tireater]

I'm not a big fan of New York and it's sodomizing cops...Cali. cops won't butt rape you for weed....
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081210/ap_on_re_us/police_assault

[coolingfin]

When auto emissions testing went into effect, a lot of people who had nicely modified cars suddenly had race-only cars that had little market value.  This sort of thing could easily happen to bikes too, maybe even nationwide.
The AMA has recently gone through some turmoil and the new guys in charge say lobbying and legislation is going to be a higher priority... it might be a good time to join or renew.  An effective political presence is the only way to have a say in what happens.  Unfortunately, motorcyclists have been historically ineffective at protecting themselves politically.  I hope that changes.

[Panzer]

Typical NY city.The city controllers (and that's what they are) in plain words are a bitch.
Pretty steep fines.   I won't even drive a car there let alone a bike.

[04glide]

Well I'll add that city to my list of DO NOT RIDE THROUGH. Hell I have one here just 10 miles away that is on my list.

[shovelmonster76]

These guys have it all figured out. The mean loud bikers might scare off the crack dealers.

[FastFLSTF]

Notice that the only pro-motorcylce quote in the article was "it's dangerous to ride with pipes that are too low."  That ridiculous "loud pipes save lives" logic is what will get us all riding Vespas.  It might play at an ABATE rally where folks are drinkin' beer and yelling "show us the goods!" at any chick walking by, but it doesn't play in the community that matters (those that vote and make laws) and makes us all sound like dopes.

[Kansas]

I agree that this ridiculous infatuation with loud motorcycles is making us the next victim of the pc bunch and our neighbors ire.  I, for one, am sick of loud Harleys and my new 2009 Softy Deluxe will be left bone stock as far as the pipes go.  NYC is no place to be on a mc anyway, but that's another story.

[ΚĜΗΟŜΤ]

In my opinion this is just another way "our elected officials" demonstrate that they are "working"!! Nothing more nothing less. A free paycheck for looking and acting busy!!
They as with almost all other cities and towns across America spend there time legislating the small lying fruit that very few will argue with. They know that most people who ride are to busy working to support there families and way of life to be able to fight such stupid and I mean stupid legislation.

If they had a clue they would be going after the real isses that affect the common person and not loud motorcycles that in the northern part of the country anyway, only are ridden for ~ 6 months out of a year.

I have to ask is it really that bad to hear a loud sound for a few seconds once in a while? Or does it interfere with there cell call with there windows up and the AC on?

I dont get it??

As said why dont they go after the real crime? Because they want the money$$$$ that the working stiff knows he/she will have to cough up when they get the fine. The crack dealer pays no fine gets public payed legal help and goes to jail on our dime!!!

Revolution is comming..........................................

How many more laws that take away freedoms and personal liberties will be past so that those who pass them do NOT have to comply???

KGHOST

[Flat Dog]

So it's ok for Habib and his 5000000000000000 cab driving cousins to blare their horns at 130dB, but not a motorcycle exhaust?

ridiculous infatuation with loud motorcycles

WTF? You are kidding, right?

[Ratfade]

Here's my theory: when things get out of control, governments react by controlling things that can be controlled, whether they matter or not. Have you ever noticed that cities where the leading cause of death is gunfire have the most restrictive legislation on smoking in public? It creates the impression that government is "doing something". As society continues to break down, I think we can expect more of this kind of nonsense.

[Ape_do]

Good one, Photo John.

I've been done w/NYC and every other major city for some years now. In fact, this sort of BS is why I left a high-paying job in Atlanta, and went into semi-retirement here in SC. Land is still affordable here, the weather is good year-round, not much traffic & wonderful back roads for riding. I assume cops are crooked everywhere, but the last thing they care about are loud pipes out here in the country. The stupider the world gets, the deeper into the woods I go!

[jsachs1]

Damn !!!!!!!!!!!!
Next thing,they'll have a BS law,like was recently passed in Florida: License tags MUST BE MOUNTED HORIZONTALY !!!!!!!!!  Big fines.
John

[coolingfin]

So I have to put super restrictive mufflers on my bike but I can't put any muffler on my gun...
Loud pipes (and all guns) can save lives!

[coolingfin]

in Florida: License tags MUST BE MOUNTED HORIZONTALY

If I'm in court on that, maybe I should ask the judge to look at the law books on his bench and then ask him if he can still read the book titles even though they're printed vertically on the book spines.   

[marc]

I agree that this ridiculous infatuation with loud motorcycles is making us the next victim of the pc bunch and our neighbors ire.  I, for one, am sick of loud Harleys

I couldn't agree with you more...I don't have stock pipes but my slip-on's passed state inspection last year...A little rumble is nice but these guys/gals with the drag pipes and/or pipes without baffles are making life miserable for others...It is a two way street...JMHO...

[Deye76]

In my neck of the woods drag pipes are on shovels etc., which are now maybe 5% of the bikes on the road. However, you gather 200 H-D's for a toy run or Veterans run (gathering in large numbers will be next) and yea it's loud, even with stock pipes. Loud bikes are not unique to H-D's, but we gather in larger numbers, more-so than owners of other brands. If you want to kill the rest of the aftermarket industry, set idly by and let them go after any pipe not OEM. Even a ST is loud when putting the bike through it's paces. AMA and Abate are good orginizations to join.

[fxstdavew]

You know I've been around bikes my whole life I don't ever remember drag pipes being legal,but strangely enough there has never been a shortage of bikes with them. In the 60-70's you might get hassled a little, but than it became vogue to ride your loud Harley. Now that the party is over(good riddens) We're going to go back to dealing with this nonsense. These noise laws aren't anything new just a different spin to it. Yes there needs to be a back lash to fight this, but if you don't ride like you are a tool, purposely drawing attention to yourself you may never have a problem. Dave

[98roadking]

I usually go on two group rides a years with friends and friends of friends. All bikes welcome, Harleys, wingers, beemers and yamaharleys. The loudest bikes in the groups are the yamaharleys, but the average Joe can't tell them apart from real Harleys.

[coolingfin]

but if you don't ride like you are a tool, purposely drawing attention to yourself you may never have a problem. Dave

It does come down to that in a lot of jurisdictions... some guys are just asking for it... revin' the hell out of their bikes for no reason other than to make a lot of noise...and the more people are lookin' the louder they act... that 'ain't helping anyone by their own ego... a little discretion would go a long way toward avoiding over regulation...

[96flhpi]

Funny that a city so concerned with traffic congestion would be discouraging M/C riding.  They were recently discussing charging a toll to go below 60th street in Manhattan - only to reduce congestion of course, nothing to do with revenues .  BTW, the Mayor just overturned the two term limit that was voted in by the public not once, but twice.  Guess who's already served two terms and would like to run again.

I live about an hour north of the city, and even with my aftermarket pipes could probably pass the inspection, but I guess me and my buds won't be heading to City Island for seafood any more.

[FLH]

Alright, kick me in the azz, but I gotta say, did you notce the big D next to all their names?? There ya go.
Bet they do nothing about all the rice burnin low riders with the fart can exhausts and the speakers thumpin out base that makes the bottom of your feet tingle. They hate middle age white guys on Harleys plain and simple.

It's just gettin started. Wake me up when the revolution starts.

[marc]

These noise laws aren't anything new just a different spin to it. Yes there needs to be a back lash to fight this, but if you don't ride like you are a tool, purposely drawing attention to yourself you may never have a problem. Dave

Exactly...To many tool's out there...

[Ultrashovel]

You'd have to be pretty brave to ride a bike through downtown NYC anyway. It's almost the worst traffic in the US other than California.

The point is, don't sell your stock mufflers. You may be needing them.

[Kansas]

Last time I was in NYC my daughter picked me up at La Guardia.  We were heading towards New Jersey when a fully patched jockey shifting Harley rider came screaming on to the highway at full throttle. He blasted to the next exit and made as much noise as he possibly could backing off.  I guess he was showing everybody what a tough outlaw biker he was.  With the racket bouncing off the buildings and the walls around the road it was the single loudest Harley I have ever witnessed. Getting noticed in NYC isn't easy but you couldn't miss this guy.  It's guys like him that screw it up for all of us.

[Flat Dog]

Funny, but my experience has been that it's usually the yuptards that love to rap the crap out of their throttle just to hear the noize of their rolling penis.

Personally I would much rather enjoy the sound of a Harley running at full throttle next to me than a stupid stoned white kid blasting 'kill whitey' on his ghetto bumper stereo system.

[Scurvy]

It's guys like him that screw it up for all of us.

making life miserable for others...

That ridiculous "loud pipes save lives" logic is what will get us all riding Vespas

Sure wish people wouldn't speak for me all the time...
anyways, this is the same story I've heard for 35 years now. There are just a lot more whiners now I guess. The amount of harrassment I get nowadays is way less than I got in the old days, I hope it's because I'm a little wiser? I'll always ride a carb'd twin that I've modified, and will always get a big grin when someone with a hot setup isn't afraid to blow by me on the Interstate, and there will never be nothing like the sound of 10,000 harleys in one place.

[Bulit]

In the past few weeks, I have read a few articles about loud M/C's, such as MB, a few other places and now NYC. In each article, they always quoted someone who made a remark about their bike having loud pipes and how it is the only safe way to ride. Sounds like these people are giving ammo to the people creating these laws.

[Flat Dog]

Revving my loud pipes has saved me from getting run over many times, and I have been run over twice when I had quiet pipes. I thought I lived in America where illegal search and seizure were unconstitutional.

Guess loud noises are treasonous these days, now that doctors and lawyers own quiet Harleys...

[byoodah]

Scurvy (post #28)   you hit a few nails on the head 
byoodah

[Fxstchewy]

NYC..........says it all. 

[boooby1744]

I'm not a big fan of New York and it's sodomizing cops...Cali. cops won't butt rape you for weed....
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081210/ap_on_re_us/police_assault

do you believe everything you read?

[boooby1744]

I agree that this ridiculous infatuation with loud motorcycles is making us the next victim of the pc bunch and our neighbors ire.  I, for one, am sick of loud Harleys and my new 2009 Softy Deluxe will be left bone stock as far as the pipes go.  NYC is no place to be on a mc anyway, but that's another story.

I've been riding in the city for 32 years.I'm sure when you think nyc,you think Manhattan.Yes,it's not a great place to ride(unless it's before 1030am on a sunday)but i'm sure there are a lot of other places in the u.s thatare just as harsh.I'll keep ridin'

[Evo160K]

Would this proposed ordinance apply to Out-of-State bikes visiting the city?  We were planning to visit after the next Rolling Thunder ride to DC.

[RK101]

They've been complaining about loud motorcycles for years, and many of us did nothing about how loud the bikes were and where they decided to rev them up. As long as they got noticed that's all that mattered to them. They didn't care what others thought of the noise, so why would they care what we think about the lack of it. The lame excuse of loud pipes save lives is bull. There's a big difference between loud pipes and pipes that can be heard at a reasonable distance.  Loud pipes have p***ed more people off than they ever saved lives, and to prove it many local govt's are acting out on it.
So is anybody really all that surprised that it has come down to this??  I'm not, I'm surprised it has taken this long to be honest.  I don't have stock mufflers, but I've never heard one person say they were to loud.  Don't sell those stock mufflers, The day is going to come where we're all going to need them again, Even me because once they start, to quiet will not be quiet enough for some. For years motorcycles have been trying to sound like Harley's. Before to long  Harley's are going to have to sound like Goldwings.
Won't riding be so much fun after we've forced them to come down on us. 

[MBSKEAM]

so what if one of these are parked at the curb? ? ? ? ......hhhhhmmmmm













NONE OF THESE HAVE A TAG ON THE MUFFLER  are they going to F with these bikes also?, most of the cops and I would bet that the 3 hundred pound webble wobble meter maid surley dont know, and at to other city workers.... yea right


mbskeam

[panz4ever]

 A quick read of the ordinance refers to bikes produced after 1982. Also says the bike must be parked or standing. Sounds like a good reason to keep my old pans and shovel and to avoid NYC

[MikeL]

It has nothing to do with noise or the quality of life. The politicians can give a rats ass for your well being. It's a ploy for the city to collect  revenue. NYC is such a joke it's so corrupt it makes me sick. Their trying to tax and fine anything they can think of. Imagine this they want to put tolls on the inner city bridges which are free now can you imagine the traffic? it's a joke. I used to go to NYC a lot no more. You make 1 little mistake like let the parking meter run out and the vulture traffic cops are waiting to hit you with a $90.00+ parking ticket.

                                                                                        MIKE 

[fuzznut5197]

so what if one of these are parked at the curb? ? ? ? ......hhhhhmmmmm

Would you park any one of those bikes in NYC and leave it? 

[MBSKEAM]

well...no I wouldn't, but thats not the point....LOL

how many people would know a 81 from a 92. unless ya run the plates or vin...
AND NOT US ....
REVENUE...TADA

MBSKEAM

[Flat Dog]

I'm just glad I live in Florida where almost everyone is already deaf and blind...

[Ultrashovel]

Revving my loud pipes has saved me from getting run over many times, and I have been run over twice when I had quiet pipes. I thought I lived in America where illegal search and seizure were unconstitutional.

Guess loud noises are treasonous these days, now that doctors and lawyers own quiet Harleys...

An air horn will do the same thing and you don't have to losten to it all of the time.

[FastFLSTF]

An air horn will do the same thing and you don't have to listen to it all of the time.

That's kinda what I was thinking.   Every bike I've ever owned had a horn on it.  I would think defensive driving, avoidance maneuvers, brakes, and the horn would be a better ways to avoid an accident, rather than gunning it to make more noise.   

[shovelbill]

this is the body of an e-mail i got the other day. this "Potty mouth" is not about the noise but a direct attack on our rights. imagine what would happen if they decided to "pull over" all cadillacs or lincolns one day.

Please all read below and DO something (call or show up at the hearing). This is an affront not only
to us bikers but to ALL people. We as bikers cherish our personal freedoms, as stated in the US Constitution, more then most but every little chip away at our freedom hurts ALL Americans.


MESSAGE FROM JIM BARR: NEW PRESIDANT OF LONG ISLAND ABATE

Fellow Riders,

Attached is the Public Safety Committee agenda for the Public Safety Committee of the Suffolk County Legislature. Introductory Resolution # 2191 is intended to accept $25,500. from New York State to fund the improper MOTORCYCLE ONLY "safety" stops. That means that EVERY motorcycle that is traveling on the road will have to exit and enter a "safety inspection" just like commercial trucks are subjected to.The public hearing will be held this Thursday, 12/11/08 at 9:30am in the Legislative Building on Vets Hwy in Hauppauge. We need as many people as possible to attend and speak against this bill. The Chairman of the Committee, Legislator Jack Eddington, is a member of ABATE and is completely against this bill. But he needs us to lobby the other Legislators of the committee.  I spoke with Legislator Losquadro and he committed to me that he will vote against it also.  But that still leaves 4 votes against us.  Please call the following Legislators and tell them that you are against it because it unfairly targets motorcyclists, It's discriminatory, it profiles us and there is no probable cause to detour us. Their phone numbers are; Leg Browning 852-1300, Leg Horsley 854-1100, Leg Nowick 854-3900, Leg Gregory 854-1111.  It would also be nice if you call our 2 supporters and thank them for their support; Leg Eddington 854-1400 and Leg Losquardo 854-1600. Please try to come to the committee meeting Thursday if you can.  If you have any questions, call me at 495-5485.


Little Al Panzella
New York City HOG
Activities Officer, Historian, Road Captain, Tail-Gunner
3 time Iron Butt Association Award Recipient-2005
MSU MotorMan Certificate-2007 & Advanced-2008
al@emdinc.net
347-244-9969

www.nychog.net

[shovelmonster76]

When that old lady pulls out in front of you and then sees you coming ,but is already blocking your lane you honk your horn and give her a pissed off look? I run drags on my shov and this happened to me last month. I had to run off the road to miss her and I promise you I wanted to do more than blow her f%#$^ widows out.

[96flhpi]

this is the body of an e-mail i got the other day. this "Potty mouth" is not about the noise but a direct attack on our rights. imagine what would happen if they decided to "pull over" all cadillacs or lincolns one day.

I was thinking the same thing, Shovelbill.  Will the EPA be testing the many import cars with the kazoo mufflers I hear?  Many of them are louder than my scoot.  How about city buses, that are not only loud but must be emissions exempt judging by the black smoke pouring out of a lot of them?

My scoot's an '82 so I'd probably be grandfathered in, if not it ain't all that loud to begin with, and I don't ride in NYC that often anyway, but what's next?

[FastFLSTF]

When that old lady pulls out in front of you and then sees you coming ,but is already blocking your lane you honk your horn and give her a pissed off look? I run drags on my shov and this happened to me last month. I had to run off the road to miss her and I promise you I wanted to do more than blow her f%#$^ widows out.

I'm sorry, but if this story is related in front of a panel of government folks deciding whether or not to vote for this bill, you'll lose.  You just proved that the "loud pipes save lives" argument is bogus, in that you ALREADY "run drags on my Shovel" and the old lady pulled out in front of you anyway.  What's louder?  No exhaust, just run straight out of the exhaust port?  A siren?  In fact, old people and other idiots pull out in front of emergency vehicles running code every day, and not only are they loud; they have flashing lights.  So voters are going to roll their eyes, and vote along legal lines that their constituents demand.

Also, wondering "what's next, pulling over Cadillacs" probably isn't a helpful argument.  Unless the Cadillac driver is breaking a law which has been on the books for quite some time (noise laws and modified exhaust EPA laws) they're probably okay.

Look, I ride modified bikes and it will kill what I enjoy.  But we have to find a better argument, and those "rugged individualists" who demand straight pipes are going to have us all running stock exhaust if they don't reign themselves in a bit. 

[fatboydan]

Maybe we should take ole Clints approach:

Why Clint Eastwood thinks America is full of babies
BY LARRY McSHANE
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER

Saturday, December 13th 2008, 9:23 PM


Rodriguez/Getty

Clint Eastwood says America has gotten soft.
Tough guy Clint Eastwood believes America is getting soft around the middle - and the iconic Oscar winner thinks he knows when the problem began.

"Maybe when people started asking about the meaning of life," Eastwood, 78, growls in the January issue of Esquire.

The actor/director recalls the deeper questions were rarely posed during his Depression-era California childhood - and says that wasn't a bad thing.

"People barely got by," Eastwood recounts. "People were tougher then."

Eastwood, whose on-screen tough guys included Dirty Harry and gun-for-hire William Munny in "Unforgiven," was a fighter at a young age.

"I was a shy kid," he says. "But a lot of my childhood was spent punching the bullies out."

That mentality is gone, he laments.

"Everyone's become used to saying, 'Well, how do we handle it psychologically?'" Eastwood says. "In those days, you punched the bully back and duked it out."
When not overanalyzing things, 21st century America spends too much time worrying about ... everything.

"You can't stop everything from happening," Eastwood says. "But we've gotten to a point where we're certainly trying. If a car doesn't have 400 air bags in it, then it's no good."

The somewhat-grumpy-old man doesn't quite grasp the concept of body piercing. "What kind of masochism is that?" he wonders. "Is it to show you can take it?"

The "Dirty Harry" star has good things to say about life as a senior citizen: He likes kids a lot more, has less self-doubt and doesn't sweat the small stuff.

"What can they do to you after you get in your 70s?" he asks.

[96flhpi]

FastFL - The problem is that NY state is pulling bikes over when no laws have been broken.  I've been pulled over (along with every other bike riding on I-84) for "routine safety checks" during which they make sure I have current reg and ins., a DOT helmet, and a M/C endorsement on my license.  I've NEVER been randomly pulled over in my car to make sure I have a drivers license and am wearing my seat belt.

I agree with you that straight pipes harm our reputations and I personally don't care for them.  I have no problem with a scoot being pulled over for decible testing - I know that a lot of us do have a problem with that - but it don't bother me as long as the bike in question is unreasonably loud.  What does bother me is "vehicular profiling" or whatever you want to call it.  I ride a bike and I ride it responsibly, why should I be subjected to random searches without probable cause just because I'm on two wheels instead of four.  Why should I be subjected to extra EPA inspections if they are not applied equally to all vehicles, two wheels or more.

BTW, studies show that red cars are more likely to have an accident.  I'm gonna write my congressman and demand that buyers of red cars have to take an additional 10 hour safety class, pass an additional safety test and demonstrate their driving abilities to any officer who demands it

[Flat Dog]

This whole 'police ourselves' arguments stinks of soviet russia, and the turn in your neighbor BS. Looks like a whole lot of people have forgotten that your government-according to both state and fed constitutions-works for US-We The People. No individual not involved in lawmaking as making ANYTHING happen, and those that follow that reasoning are already suckered into the 'behave or we'll be in trouble' fascist attitude that has nothing to do with being a patriotic American, and making sure our government works for US. I hate talking politics, but these tactics are already working-divide and conquer. It's strategy 101.

Not doing a dang thing as a lawmaker to really help your employees? Start some crap with those dirty, filthy loud obnoxious scummy tattoo covered bikers. They are terrorists, you know...Osama loves loud pipes.

[1JITSU1]

Not just the city. The whole damn state. And all of the Island.
This governor has to go. He cant see past his nose but has great hearing
The stupid a--hole wants to put a tax on only reg. soda not diet just reg soda
this and some of his other hair brain schemes are going to save 12 billion bucks
Hope he dont tax grandma's tea
New York had some real winning gov. One cant keep his pants on Another made shoreham
but this one takes the cake oh I mean soda
Oh yeah,  if he cut out welfare he could save 11 billion right there
P.S. he also dont like S N L
You know who could save the state president Bill Clinton he could make up that 12 billion
he should be New Yorks gov.

[shovelbill]

i did not put the 1st post up to start a dialog about pipes. i didnt put the second post up to talk about caddies. i am using this forum/thread as a vessle to communicate what is REALLY going on in this city/country. i wanted to see what kind of responses this would generate and am surprised by the lack of interest in our rights being taken away. i would have thought the "motorcycle only" safty checks would have alarmed a few.
i wonder what will happen when they kick in someones door and confiscate their legally owned guns. perhaps that, my friends will make more people aware of what "they" think of the Constitition. its going into overdrive now and will only get worse. 96flhpi caught my drift, i was hoping more would have. perhaps i should have chosen a better title, but that wasnt the point of the exercise..............keep the shiny side up,
                                                                     bill

[panz4ever]

Seems to me like the bikers of NYC and NY need to organize a protest and do a ride-in on the capitol. Something along the lines of the movie "Convoy". About 20K bikers clogging the street would shut down NYC and shut down the capitol as well. Sometimes you have to break the law in order to defend it.

[shovelmonster76]

You are dead on. What about the guys that don't have all of their MSO's or just had a couple of beers at the club. I'm probably not helping but it's the truth. I live in a small town where a lot of law enforcement ride and we don't have a problem with road blocks or cops harassing us about our pipes. Every bar around has bike night at least once a week even in winter and I have never heard of anybody getting bugged unless they wipe out or just doing stupid stuff or something.

[FLH]

Turns out, they took it off the "agenda" for this session. Here's what the AMA says:


Action Alert

12/15/2008 Information Alert - Update on New York City Introduction 416-A


Attention New York City Area Motorcyclists

Legislation that would mandate the use of OEM (original equipment manufacturer) exhaust systems on all motorcycles in New York City has been "deferred" by the New York City Council. Originally scheduled for consideration at its December 18 meeting, Introduction 416-A has been removed from the agenda.

A representative in the Clerk of Council's office confirmed the removal of the legislation Monday (December 15) afternoon.

The bill would prohibit the parking, stopping or standing of any motorcycle equipped with "straight pipes." Under the definition of "straight pipe" in Intro 416-A, any motorcycle exhaust system not stamped with the U.S. EPA compliance label would be in violation of the law, regardless of the sound level emitted by the exhaust system.

Motorcyclists should continue contacting their City Council members to voice concern regarding this legislation.

So it could be brought back. I say, git yourself one of those EPA stamps, and stamp your pipes legal

[KB]

Same is Oz only it's a National Standard. They don't have to warn you just take it on the spot no questions no come back, too bad so sad can't even fight it court. If it's not OEM or *branded* as standards compliant bye bye bike.

Same for any engine modifications, if you don't have it signed off by the transport dept it's gone. That is any modification not a genuine part included in the standards list. Even Harley aftermarket SE parts might be get it confiscated.

[Flat Dog]

It's all been a slippery slope for years, and the 'paranoids' who used to be called batty and unpatriotic because they said the US government ultimately wants to be a fascist dictatorship are now being kind of listened to, but much too late.


Illegal search and seizure has been upheld by the supreme court, and we allow our stuff to be stolen by big brother while doing nothing about these illegal acts.


Lube up, fellow citizens...more is coming.

[shovelbill]

here is one way to help the situation.

Congressman Ron Paul
Foundation for Rational Economics and Education
Dear Friend of Liberty:

The Founders' inspired vision of limited government has been kept alive by the hard work and generosity of Americans who truly cherish individual Liberty... average people like you and me.

In the toughest times... times like we are facing right now in the life of our nation... freedom fighters have always stepped forward for Americaâ€"armed with whatever it takes and at whatever sacrificeâ€"to answer the call to defend our liberty. That's how America was born and how we, as a free and sovereign nation, have survived.

A major economic crisis is unfolding in our nation. New government programs are started daily, and future plans are being made for even more costly government expansion. All are based on the belief that we're in this mess because free-market capitalism and sound money failed. The obsession is with more spending, bailouts of bad investments, more debt, and further dollar debasement. Many are saying we need an international answer to our problems with the establishment of a world central bank and a single fiat reserve currency.

These suggestions are merely more of the same policies that created our mess and are doomed to fail.

It is unimaginable that Congress could be so derelict in its duty. It does nothing but condone the arrogance of the Fed in its refusal to tell us where the $2 trillion has gone. Every Member of Congress and every American should be outraged that conditions could deteriorate to this degree. It's no wonder that a large and growing number of Americans are now demanding an end to the Fed.

The Federal Reserve created our problem, yet it manages to gain even more power in the socialization of the entire financial system. The whole bailout process this past year was characterized by no oversight, no limits, no concerns, no understanding, and no common sense.

I hear daily from Americans like you who are up in arms about what is going on in our nation. Messages come into my congressional office morning, noon and night. Taxpayers are outraged by the huge bailouts, the massive expansion of government and the refusal by Congress and the leaders of both parties to follow the Constitution.

Many Americans are frustratedâ€"or even outright angryâ€"about failed government policies that just tighten the government's noose around our necks.

The results of the recent election and the socialist policies that we are seeing proposed are indeed reminiscent of FDR and the New Deal and are equally dangerous. Free market economists and historians have correctly pointed out that Roosevelt's horrendous economic policies only served to prolong and extend the severity of the Great Depression by many years. When the market is not allowed to work, government-created economic downturns are only made that much worse.

Since the financial crisi s has become more and more apparent and the attempts by the Fed, and Treasury and Congress to solve the problem have become more desperate, my phone has been ringing off the wall with calls from media outlets wanting to interview me and get my opinions about what is going on and how we need to deal with it.

During the presidential election, do you remember how the media scoffed at my suggestions that we were facing economic disaster? They laughed at my calls for limited government, for abolishing the Fed and the IRS, for cutting federal spending at home and abroad to balance our budget, and my call for a sound monetary system.

Today, with the crisis at hand, they are not laughing any more.

But, if we love our nation, it is not sufficient for us to sit back and say "we told you so."

The task before us is huge. Our challenge is both political and philosophical, but either way the solution must begin by properly educating Americans as to why our current out-of-control, misguided political and financial systems have failed, and what must be done to turn things around.

My Foundation for Rational Economics and Education (FREE) has been waging such an educational effort for several decades. We have had a great deal of success publishing newsletters and books and producing radio and TV programs teaching people about the Constitution and free markets and sound money.

FREE has done much to educate patriots like you and to win the battle for the hearts and minds of Americans young and old. Today, however, given the severity of the crisis we face, we must do even more in our battle to spread the truth It is imperative that we redouble and expand the work and scope of FREE's educational effort. Right now, while people are still looking for answers and even the media is trying to figure out what in the world is going on, we must step in to fill the void that exists and to provide answers and solutions for the problems that face us.

You have been a faithful supporter of the cause of liberty. You understand the serious nature of the threats that confront us and the dangers posed to our freedom and our very way of life.

It is up to us step up and lead the pro-freedom movement, not just in Congress, but in every community and at every level of government and every institution of learning.

Our ability to lead this movement comes from your tax-deductible contribution to FREE. $50 or $100, or even $250 or more if you can afford it, is urgently needed to help fund the effort to turn our government and our nation around... before it is too late.

Leadership is sorely lacking in Washington. It is time for true leaders like us to step forward and offer the vision needed to point Congress and our nation in the right direction... and to halt the assault on our nation's sovereignty.

This is a dangerous time. But it is also an historic opportunity. Please help today with your most generous, tax-deductible gift for freedom. We must act swiftly to fill the leadership void in Washington. The time is NOW and the need is urgent!!!

Please log on to www.FREE-NEFL.com and contribute to the incredibly important work of FREE. No gift is too small... and every donation will help me continue to lead the battle for Liberty.

I'm counting on you.

For Liberty,

Ron Paul

P.S. If you can help with $50 or more, I will send you my "Freedom Report" newsletter for a full year as my "thank you" for your generous help. And for a gift of $100 or more I would like to send you a copy of my book on foreign policy...  A Foreign Policy of Freedom.

P.P.S. If you can help FREE with a magnificent gift of $500 or more, I'll send you a personally autographed copy of my best-selling book, The Revolution: A Manifesto.

[Bagger]

Turns out, they took it off the "agenda" for this session. Here's what the AMA says:

Action Alert  12/15/2008 Information Alert - Update on New York City Introduction 416-A

Attention New York City Area Motorcyclists -  Legislation that would mandate the use of OEM (original equipment manufacturer) exhaust systems on all motorcycles in New York City has been "deferred" by the New York City Council. Originally scheduled for consideration at its December 18 meeting, Introduction 416-A has been removed from the agenda.  A representative in the Clerk of Council's office confirmed the removal of the legislation Monday (December 15) afternoon.

The bill would prohibit the parking, stopping or standing of any motorcycle equipped with "straight pipes." Under the definition of "straight pipe" in Intro 416-A, any motorcycle exhaust system not stamped with the U.S. EPA compliance label would be in violation of the law, regardless of the sound level emitted by the exhaust system.

Motorcyclists should continue contacting their City Council members to voice concern regarding this legislation.  So it could be brought back. I say, git yourself one of those EPA stamps, and stamp your pipes legal

All over the nation, cities and municipalities are cracking down on motorcycle exhausts.  It's coming to where eventually, anything other than stock won't be tolerated.  When folks talk about loud pipes they think of drag pipes.  So what about us guys that run aftermarket exhaust like D&D Fat Cat, Rineharts, Vance & Hines True Duals, and all the aftermarket slip ons for stock headers?

[MBSKEAM]

muffler wrap tape....
may look like crap  on a new bike, but they (THE MANN) cant see whats under it without destroying your property....
this would slow them up a bit.....


mbskeam

[boooby1744]

muffler wrap tape....
may look like crap  on a new bike, but they (THE MANN) cant see whats under it without destroying your property....
this would slow them up a bit.....

Believe me,there would be a ticket/fine for obstructing view...................then you'd be hit w/ 2 fines.
mbskeam

[shrike96]

Well its going to be reintroduced.  Here is a copy of the petition.  Print it out and have your friends and family sign it.  Then mail it in!   Be part of the solution.  Inaction will solve nothing.  Trust me, if this passes it will sweep the nation!!!  As NYC goes so goes the nation, sad but true.  Join ABATE, MRF or what ever MRO you feel good about and  join the fight. 
Mail the petitions to:
Nancy Ortize
330 Madison Street Apt. 4F
New York, NY 10002

[attachment removed after 60 days by system]

[cheetah]

Preview of coming attractions.
If we don't discourage those who abuse the system by sitting at a red light and reving up their drag pipes, we will all pay the price. (Like it or not.)
But then........ there will always be the "non conformists"
And Politicans will always be politicans.
C

[Ghost Rider]

More than once, while in NYC, I have witnessed bikers rudely and arrogantly using loud drag pipes to intimidate pedestrians. I thought someday we will all have to pay for the behavior of these morons. I still have stock pipes stashed away for when that day comes.

[apes]

If they are going to target loud bikes and get accustomed to LOOKING for Harleys ....a simple magnetic tank badge that says HONDA may escape close scrutiny

Just joking!!!

[Hoist!]

HeHe!!! Opinions, opinions, opinions! Need I say more. This ain't about noise. This ain't about scaring the "Potty mouth" outta pedestrians. This ain't about what they think of bikers. It's about our RIGHTS dammit!!!!! You make a law that affects ALL people eaually!!! When the buses, garbage trucks, cranes, construction equipment, tractor-trailers, lawn mowers, weed wackers, Bloomberg's big mouth, yada, yada, yada, ALL must meet the EXACT sound criteria, then talk to me. Until then, you ain't TOUCHING my bike cause it's louder than a friggin bicycle!!! Screw Bloomberg!!! It's all him people. If ya haven't lived thru this "Potty mouth", then you really don't know the whole story. JMO, but this "Potty mouth" really pisses me off!!!

Hoist!

[IndyHarley]

HeHe!!! Opinions, opinions, opinions! Need I say more. This ain't about noise. This ain't about scaring the "Potty mouth" outta pedestrians. This ain't about what they think of bikers. It's about our RIGHTS dammit!!!!! You make a law that affects ALL people eaually!!! When the buses, garbage trucks, cranes, construction equipment, tractor-trailers, lawn mowers, weed wackers, Bloomberg's big mouth, yada, yada, yada, ALL must meet the EXACT sound criteria, then talk to me. Until then, you ain't TOUCHING my bike cause it's louder than a friggin bicycle!!! Screw Bloomberg!!! It's all him people. If ya haven't lived thru this "Potty mouth", then you really don't know the whole story. JMO, but this "Potty mouth" really pisses me off!!!

Hoist!

yes it is about rights but my feelings is that it is even more fundamental and deepr than that. The government has gotten to the point that they believe ordinary people can't function without the government telling them what to do, in other words we are stupid and they are smart (BIG Brother). You can reduce all of that to a huge push towards 'socialism'. It ain't far away in my opinion. My response to most is - if you didn't vote then don't complain because that is part of the problem and secondly if you voted and your candidate lost then next time be more proactive and get others to vote.

Now I return you to your regular scheduled program.

[Hoist!]

yes it is about rights but my feelings is that it is even more fundamental and deepr than that. The government has gotten to the point that they believe ordinary people can't function without the government telling them what to do, in other words we are stupid and they are smart (BIG Brother). You can reduce all of that to a huge push towards 'socialism'. It ain't far away in my opinion. My response to most is - if you didn't vote then don't complain because that is part of the problem and secondly if you voted and your candidate lost then next time be more proactive and get others to vote.

Now I return you to your regular scheduled program.

HeHe! Yeah we vote! Change things? Try changing things in a place full of Liberal pukes! Oops, I said it! The friggin votes are already predetermined here for the most part. And if not, Bloomberg goes behgind closed doors and makes his own rules! Guess you don't live here!

Hoist!