Does your bagger handle like a drunken camel in a sand storm?

[Admiral Akbar]

Agree with JW,  I went with the Sta-bo on two bike with updated swing arms, one of them being mine,  neither bike wallows on high speed and both are ridden hard with confidence,   we have one off ramp here that is a guarantee to make your bike feel hinged and both bike did wallow on that ramp that has a 50 mph posted speed,  now both bike can be riden in confidence thru that ramp at 75 mph.

Well the sweeper I got is marked 45 and I'm doing it at 80-90     Max

[moose]

my sweeper is faster than yours   

bud is on his second replaced tire on the moco's dime for the same problem it was the front tire both times.

the rear is wearing very flat and looks like it is going to cause a problem also it is on a 2010 ultra with everything stock

[Admiral Akbar]

my sweeper is faster than yours   

Can you tell, I'm having fun with that?     Max

[JW113]

Yes, stock Dunlops on front & rear. Currently, both are about 50% worn? The rear is just
starting to get that squared off look, am looking forward to throwing a new set of 'em on
to see if things get even better. I've tried the other brands, always come back to Dunlop.
They all (Dunlops included) seem to have little "personality" quirks, I just I'm just so used
to Dunlop that I can overlook those the easiest.

The problem with my sweepers, is that I ride them every day, most are marked 50, and
are two or three lanes wide. The "good" ones have a diamond (commute) lane, which lucky
little me gets to use, and is usually all to myself. Doing 80 or so, next to a lane or two
of cars going between 0 and 60, makes wobbles and wiggles a bit of a concern. Not to
mention, the freeways out here in San Jose are just plain $hit. Heard on the radio a few
times, rated worst in the nation. Come on transportation bill!!!

-JW

[mayor]

Well I ain't calling anyone crazy or a fool..

Max

so your trying to reform?   

[Admiral Akbar]

Well I ain't calling anyone crazy or a fool..

Max

so your trying to reform?   

Well I was ... Fool.. 

JW thanks for the additional info.. I would say that the mod does take care of sweepers for the wider ramps just fine.. My two test corners have some pretty stout step bumps.. Both are sweepers with sweeping bridges in the middle of the curve.. that have steps at the entrance and exit.. You get to experience both a pretty good step up and step down.. and see what happens when the suspension compresses while cornering and drops while cornering. As Dan says some wobbles are rider induced, and with these steps it's not hard to induce a short wallow on pretty much any bike.. Looking at how the bike recovers is important.. 

Anyway this is discussion is not to dis glide pro but look at root causes and possible solutions.. Too many have seen improvements to say that the product is not a good solution..  I'm just trying to find root cause and a possible solutions..

Max

[Deye76]

Willy gave the numbers to me.
He said who the heck is max?
I said he's a guy with a couple dial indicators.
He said don't need 'em, at every 11k replace the donuts and go.
He also said if ya don't like that, go to h#ll and buy some aftermarket stuff. We don't build 'em to last, we want you buy a new bike every year. 
I said I'll relay message.
Done.

[Admiral Akbar]

 

Max

[JW113]

Max, I think the investigation you did is awesome, in that it gives an explanation as to why some stock bikes handle so
much better or worse than others. Controlling the distances between the two frame mount points, and dimensional
tolerances in the pass-peg/rear mount castings, and then the thickness of the mounts themselves, is purt near
impossible. We all know that H-D has moved away from the "shim it til it's right" method of production to the
"slam it together and ship it, close enough is good enough" philosophy. Our lovely flywheel assembly and
no sprocket shaft Timkens are a perfect example.

Yes, I shelled out 400 bux to fix the swing arm mount problem. I hate to tell you how much I spent converting
my cases to tapered Timkens! I look at this kind of stuff as "insurance". Cheaper to prevent then fix later...

I think your point is that what is really needed at the factory is a "shim to fit" for the two rear mounts. Of
course, that doesn't fit HD's business model anymore, does it? It seems they've chosen the path of changing
the design to cure the problem, and maybe that's good. I really don't like how tall the new bikes are, but
that's my problem not theirs. However, I sure want to hear how a '09 with 100K miles on it compares to
one with 100 miles on it. Is the frame stability problem "really" fixed? Or just masked? Time will tell I guess...

Cheers,
JW

[Reddog74usa]

No, but my drunken camel does handle like a bagger 

[JohnCA58]

I try to keep my speed down on that sweeper cuz, first there is a there is a hundred foot drop off and only one lane that starts over the river and very rough about a third of the way.   

I know for fact that some wallows are rider induce.  and watch a guy from behind make it happen all the time.  finally talk with him about it and found out he has a death grip on the ape handlebars and could not hold a steady line in the corners, I finally rode the bike myself and it was rock steady thru the same sweepers.   it is a habit he wont break.  then again the same guy was riding with me to visit Seattledyna,  after I got to the bottom of the canyon,  he turn around and went back to Placerville and waited for me to come back around 

[bigfoot5x]

I've never taken that  part of a bike apart and only have pictures for reference so I have a couple of questions. Is Max making 2 shims? One for each side? And is my understanding correct? i.e. There is something on the inside of the donut on the frame or swing arm that is cutting into the donut incrementally that then allows some movement? If that's the case does it matter what the thickness is of the shim? My bike was pretty good and stable when new but it defintiely wallows now at 53,000 miles so I was interested in the Glide Pro, but if I can fix it for less than a buck instead of $400 I'm for it! Is there a need or would it be better to replace the stock donuts and use the new shim also?

[Admiral Akbar]

I've never taken that  part of a bike apart and only have pictures for reference so I have a couple of questions. Is Max making 2 shims? One for each side?

I only made one 0.035 shim.. As a result I had to shift my butt 0.0175 to the right to compensate..    For me, on the bike I tried the mods on.. It tracked straight before and after the shim. If you need more you may want to look at balancing shims on both sides...

And is my understanding correct? i.e. There is something on the inside of the donut on the frame or swing arm that is cutting into the donut incrementally that then allows some movement?

Actually I believe the newer donut bracket does cut into the rubber to some extent.. Look at the pics.. The rubber on the outside look to be cut into slightly.. The bracket has a narrow rounded edge,, It stops when it hits steel which is not very much.. It does release some load on the stackup.. This may be by design..

If that's the case does it matter what the thickness is of the shim?

I say it does.. That's why the indicator..

My bike was pretty good and stable when new but it definitely wallows now at 53,000 miles so I was interested in the Glide Pro, but if I can fix it for less than a buck instead of $400 I'm for it! Is there a need or would it be better to replace the stock donuts and use the new shim also?

The first thing I would to is perform the check with the dial indicator.. You should check the condition of the donuts.. Make sure they are in good shape.. This is not a substitute for warn parts, it's an adjustment to an existing stackup.. If you decide to change the donuts.. Reassemble with new ones and check again.. If it OK, ride the bike.. If the bike still wobbles check end play again and look elsewhere..

I'd also say if you can't find it.. Try the glide pro..

Max

[truck]

I was hoping Big Dan would reply to this thread because he had a bad experience with a swing arm stabilizing device that might be of interest.
His device broke and his bike became unrideable. The device did such a good job of stabilizing that he didn't know the doughnuts were shot till it broke.

[hbkeith]

hey truck,what brand of stabilizer did big dan have? nice to know which ones are prone to break

[truck]

I don't know the brand.

[FLTRI]

hey truck,what brand of stabilizer did big dan have? nice to know which ones are prone to break

Even better to know these add-on do-dads can cover up underlying worn out components that need repair/replacement.

Who would one sue for injuries due to failure of an aftermarket device that masks worn out suspension parts? 
Bob

[rayww123]

Installed a dampener on my 02 ultra got rid of any wobble and high speed torque set down (old frame and technology new added hp and torque go figure)

[Admiral Akbar]

high speed torque set down

While I've not had any luck with dampers curing wobbles, they do seem to get rid of the shimmies. What is the above reference to?   Max

[Admiral Akbar]

BTw,

Since adding the shim and removing the tourpack, the FTHTC handles much better. Might be a little shimmy here or there but I still haven't changed he front tire.. It doesn't handle as well an 02 road king but that is mostly due to the added weight of the fairing. When flipping it back forth in the tight stuff, you can really feel the fairings weight..  Max..

[mayor]

It doesn't handle as well an 02 road king but that is mostly due to the added weight of the fairing. When flipping it back forth in the tight stuff, you can really feel the fairings weight..  Max..

I don't notice the fairing so much with my '09 batwing bike.  Trish actually thought the SG handled better than the RK when she rode the two a couple of weekends ago.   

[Admiral Akbar]

It doesn't handle as well an 02 road king but that is mostly due to the added weight of the fairing. When flipping it back forth in the tight stuff, you can really feel the fairings weight..  Max..

I don't notice the fairing so much with my '09 batwing bike.  Trish actually thought the SG handled better than the RK when she rode the two a couple of weekends ago.   

Did you have to replace the floorboards after she road it?

[mayor]

no, she wasn't quite riding that agressive.     I'm pretty sure that my RK scrapes before the SG does though (I have floorboard offsets on the RK  )

[Admiral Akbar]

Rear tire is almost shot..Squared off from dyno runs and slabbing.  Bike started to wobble again probably partly because if the extra HP and the bad rear tire.... Set fall away on the front end. Wobble still there.  so I installed a brandy new glide pro kit.

Max

[HogBag]

Max
The Dunlop 160/80/16 bias E3 is worth checking out. Fills the guard, sticks to the road, gets great tyre life. My 07 would wallow when the tread was low on the 402. Interested how you like the glidepro.