Hillside 124 dual cam

TripleT · February 09, 2011, 04:44:43 PM

Hi everyone, as a newer member I recently posted the following on Partycrashers 131 Hillside twin Cam post recently,

Hillside is working on my Night Train 124 currently, head work to incorporate the new HP ink 62. After that, Mr. Joe will perform his magic, I was turning out 148/154 all summer and had a blast. I will post the results when my NT is unleashed, I hope to be part of that 150 plus club.

Scott called today, he told me my bike is up and running, actually pulled a dyno run and was very very excited with the results. CFM increases are extremely impressive to say the least, changing from the 58 to 62 will no doubt transfer those extra gulps of air into HP and TQ. I will be picking up my bike on Friday and then to Joescycle for the final stage. I will post the runs when finished, but I do believe there will be some big numbers thanks to the expert knowledge of Hillside and Joes outstanding tuning.

mayor · February 09, 2011, 05:40:18 PM

Quote from: TripleT on February 09, 2011, 04:44:43 PM
I will post the runs when finished......

if you plan on posting the dyno charts, make sure you ask Joe for a sheet with SAE correction. To avoid other potential controversies you may also want to ask him to use WinPep7 software to report the results.

Admiral Akbar · February 09, 2011, 05:41:17 PM

QuoteI do believe there will be some big numbers thanks to the expert knowledge of Hillside and Joes outstanding tuning.

And don't forget Joe's dyno..

Max

Redrubicon2004 · February 09, 2011, 05:55:37 PM

Quote from: mayor on February 09, 2011, 05:40:18 PM
Quote from: TripleT on February 09, 2011, 04:44:43 PM
I will post the runs when finished......
if you plan on posting the dyno charts, make sure you ask Joe for a sheet with SAE correction. To avoid other potential controversies you may also want to ask him to use WinPep7 software to report the results.

hrdtail78 · February 09, 2011, 05:55:45 PM

Joe puts up big numbers. I am sure you will be very happy with your sheet.

TripleT · February 09, 2011, 06:39:06 PM

Mayor, thanks for the info, I certainly don't want to cause any controversies regarding dyno charts.

mayor · February 09, 2011, 06:49:43 PM

no worries T.

The site recently enacted a SAE correction policy for dyno sheets, so I figured I'd let you know before you get the bike tuned so you could ask for the right chart.

You can post any other correction factors you want as well (or actual if you so choose), you just need to have one chart in SAE correction.

Hillside Motorcycle · February 10, 2011, 08:00:21 AM

Bike showed 140 plus, SAE, here, being lean.
Heads pulled big stuff across the flow bench.

Scott

autoworker · February 10, 2011, 01:29:59 PM

I can't wait to see the results of that unleashed Night Train.

biggzed · February 10, 2011, 02:30:37 PM

Quote from: TripleT on February 09, 2011, 04:44:43 PM
Hi everyone, as a newer member I recently posted the following on Partycrashers 131 Hillside twin Cam post recently,

Hillside is working on my Night Train 124 currently, head work to incorporate the new HP ink 62. After that, Mr. Joe will perform his magic, I was turning out 148/154 all summer and had a blast. I will post the results when my NT is unleashed, I hope to be part of that 150 plus club.

You did headwork and an HPI TB to chase 2+ hp? Color me jealous. LOL

Hope you achieve your 150 plus club goal.

Zach

partycrasher · February 10, 2011, 03:54:51 PM

triple t. Rumor has it that she's gonna rip.....scotts old dyno isn't set up for FI tuning...so if he's pulling 140 sae untuned....i think you may just hit that 150HP....keep us posted and congratulations.

TripleT · February 10, 2011, 09:50:34 PM

biggzed, big bucks for just adding 2 hp, what else can you send money on and enjoy the thrill of twisting the throttle? Honestly, I believe my bike will turn some impressive numbers, we will know next week. I appreciated everyones post and support.

TripleT · February 12, 2011, 01:40:39 PM

Bike picked up at Hillside yesterday, sounds like a monster. Dropped off at Joes, should have some numbers this coming week.

partycrasher · February 15, 2011, 06:54:00 AM

.....

......

TripleT · February 15, 2011, 02:43:46 PM

Contacted by Hillside and Joe for an update on dyno numbers around 4:30pm today, bike is making unbelievable power. Bike still needs to be tunned to its full potential but I will say this, Hillside has produced excellent work for me in the past, but this tops everything I have seen! The report I'm looking at is almost surreal, and the bike is not even completely tunned

So far its 160.3 hp/158.5 tq, can't wait to see the final numbers..

mayor · February 15, 2011, 03:22:41 PM

Quote from: TripleT on February 15, 2011, 02:43:46 PM
bike is making unbelievable power. Bike still needs to be tunned to its full potential but I will say this, Hillside has produced excellent work for me in the past, but this tops everything I have seen! The report I'm looking at is almost surreal, and the bike is not even completely tunned So far its 160.3 hp/158.5 tq, can't wait to see the final numbers..

that is unbelievable results, congrats.

partycrasher · February 15, 2011, 04:09:54 PM

Triple T......i think your steppin on the toes of my 131 with those numbers.......congrats!! Nice to have another member of the 150 HP club!!!

Deye76 · February 15, 2011, 04:17:16 PM

Triple T, a runner for sure. I'm thinking with that kind of power your over 11.5:1. You must have good fuel in your area.

autoworker · February 15, 2011, 04:58:06 PM

Can't wait to see the final numbers!

TripleT · February 15, 2011, 05:34:14 PM

Mayor, I appreciate the post,

Partycrasher, I don't think I will step to heavy on your toes, I understand your bike rocks.

Deye76, compression is 11.7:1, I have experimented with a few cams on this build, 9f was to hard at the onset and died off around 5000, currently run the 640, this is more my riding style and at 3700 comes on strong and pulls hard throughout the powerband. Its hard telling what fuel you get these days, I filled up at a station that I was told has good gas. I did the same last year with my snowmobile and it melted down shortly after my gps blast of 116mph. The conditions today were condusive for tuning, SAE is in the 150's from my conversation with Joe.

rob71458 · February 15, 2011, 07:34:14 PM

I was wondering when I would hear about your bike. Very impressive! Those 640's do seem to make power, don't they? Are you running reworked SE110 heads too?

TripleT · February 15, 2011, 08:21:37 PM

Rob, thanks for the post, about the SE heads, had them on my inital 124 build but after some extensive hillside work and Joe's tune but they just didn't seem to flow and produce the results expected, gobs of tq, but hp not to impressive I believe around 130, but that was with the 9f, wish I had the 640 to compare. I consulted Scott and decided to change to S&S as a total package. I was very happy last year with the cam choice, the 640 seems to compliment this build..

partycrasher · February 16, 2011, 05:00:13 AM

....that's mad power in a night train....and it's a good cam choice for that bike.!!!

rob71458 · February 16, 2011, 06:04:51 AM

Good Grief!! Now I am wondering if I should step up to a larger TB. I am only running a 55.

Scott? What do you think?

Hillside Motorcycle · February 16, 2011, 06:25:52 AM

Rob,
With your heads, it is probably holding it back some.
Give me a yell.
Scott

pwmorris · February 16, 2011, 09:30:14 AM

Quote from: TripleT on February 15, 2011, 02:43:46 PM
The report I'm looking at is almost surreal, and the bike is not even completely tunned So far its 160.3 hp/158.5 tq, can't wait to see the final numbers..

Incredible!
I'll bet it feels surreal...
Can't wait till you post the sheet Triple T-
Since it's not even completely tuned yet, and based on what you are reporting you might be at 165 HP and 160 Ft Lbs with final tune!
From what you posted, your motor is making way more power than an out of box G2 126"-And your are closing in on HP numbers from a G2 145"!

Barrett · February 16, 2011, 11:29:27 AM

That is impressive, I'm only about 100TQ and it moves my Fatbob just fine, I couldn't imagine havin another 60 to play with, I guess I wouldn't hit my rev limiter as often.

ejk_dyna · February 16, 2011, 11:37:07 AM

yeah but if you put that g2 126 on joe's dyno it would be probably be 180hp/tq.

<<Since it's not even completely tuned yet, and based on what you are reporting you might be at 165 HP and 160 Ft Lbs with final tune!
From what you posted, your motor is making way more power than an out of box G2 126"-And your are closing in on HP numbers from a G2 145"!>>

build it · February 16, 2011, 01:25:16 PM

Haven't you consistently said not to pay much attention to the dyno graphs on Star's site, that it is a "racer thing", not showing your hand or some such thing? Seeing as that 145" dyno graph is obviously from their site I guess I'm curious as to why you'd post it...

pwmorris · February 16, 2011, 02:30:25 PM

Quote from: build it on February 16, 2011, 01:25:16 PM
Paul,
Haven't you consistently said not to pay much attention to the dyno graphs on Star's site, that it is a "racer thing", not showing your hand or some such thing? Seeing as that 145" dyno graph is obviously from their site I guess I'm curious as to why you'd post it...

I posted it as this is approx. what you would expect to get from a 145" Twin Cam out of the box when you purchase it from G2-mid to high 160's. There are options to take that number higher of course.

Hillside Motorcycle · February 16, 2011, 02:38:45 PM

Joe, of Joe's Cycle Repair, is 6'5", weighs 310 lbs, actually.
He just drove this bike to his off-site storage facility, and ON DEMAND, in 3rd gear, the bike BLAZES, the Dunlop 140, as he just alerted us.

No dyno numbers, but THAT, is an "actual" result.

BTW, the pipe on this is a Rhinehart 2/1 head pipe,(1 7/8") with a Kerker collector, void of baffling except the end cone, and is not fully tuned, as the AFR is lean, from what we've seen is still lean, from 5000 rpms -out.
I am told that a JBV Guppy is going to be in place, prior to Triple T taking possesion of this rocket, as the existing pipe still has signs of being restrictive.
Joe also tunes a TREMENDOUS amount of knee-scrapers, some with Orient Express kits in them, and mentioned that some of those had best beware.

Scott

TripleT · February 16, 2011, 02:58:55 PM

Scott, with all due respect its a 150

partycrasher · February 16, 2011, 03:59:48 PM

post a sheet.........

Hillside Motorcycle · February 16, 2011, 04:30:19 PM

Quote from: TripleT on February 16, 2011, 02:58:55 PM
Scott, with all due respect its a 150

Opps, thought it was a 140.

A 150 is even more impressive. hehe.
Scott

TripleT · February 16, 2011, 05:32:48 PM

Partycrasher, sheets will be posted when final tune is completed (STD, SAE, SAE Correction and Actual). Joe called me and mentioned what Scott posted regarding the transfer to his storage, I'm very excited to see what the final outcome will be

I believed you spoke with joe today?

partycrasher · February 17, 2011, 06:45:40 AM

i heard she's a ripper.....

Hillside Motorcycle · February 17, 2011, 10:03:03 AM

Spoke with Brian Truesdale this morning, at JBV Racing.
Nice guy for sure.

Looks like his black ceramic-coated pipe, may be the weapon of choice.

Scott

pwmorris · February 17, 2011, 10:39:21 AM

Quote from: Hillsidecyclecom on February 17, 2011, 10:03:03 AM
Spoke with Brian Truesdale this morning, at JBV Racing.
Nice guy for sure.
Looks like his black ceramic-coated pipe, may be the weapon of choice.
Scott

Brian's a great guy and he has the exhaust weapons for big HP builds-
Just takes time as each pipe is built to order-under 140 HP need not apply...

Hillside Motorcycle · February 17, 2011, 12:40:52 PM

Paul,
He was making mention of that as well.
Triple T's bike, sho 'nuff falls into that catagory.

And BTW, for folks that did not know, Brian was instrumental in the development, of the famed, White Bros "E" Series 2/1.
Scott

TripleT · February 19, 2011, 12:04:53 PM

hello all,

bike is coming along well, just experimenting with different pipe combos. V/H 2 into 1 comp is showing some crazy numbers. Still waiting for a modification on my megaphone baffle, believe that should put me into the 160's SAE. Today with the bad weather it was 158 SAE square, might have a fuel pump problem, seems to lose psi as the demand increases. Starts at 50 psi and reducing to 30 throughout the run. Any suggestions?

TXChop · February 19, 2011, 12:22:40 PM

Changed your filter at all?
If in need of a pump, look at www.injector.com

Admiral Akbar · February 19, 2011, 01:38:14 PM

Quote from: TXCHOP on February 19, 2011, 12:22:40 PM
Changed your filter at all?
If in need of a pump, look at www.injector.com

Dang,

I paid over 250 for a pump cuz HD doesn't sell only the inlet filter..

Max

Hillside Motorcycle · February 23, 2011, 04:21:30 AM

Triple T,
I know Joe has been extensively working with multiple exhaust systems.
What have you heard from him??

Scott

TripleT · February 23, 2011, 04:06:13 PM

Scott,

Talked to Joe extensively about exhaust opions, seems we both agree that the RHart head pipe works well with this combo, but the megaphone and baffel seems to be limiting the exhaust. We are going to modify the baffel a little more and see what happens, also test with a 5 inch cone. Joe strongly believes the motor has 170 hp, I can't say I have ever heard of an asperated 124 running pump gas push that kind of power, have you??

rob71458 · February 23, 2011, 05:29:10 PM

Holy $hit Batman! That is one sick build.

I wonder what I could get for my HPI 55 TB?

NCTURBOS · February 24, 2011, 09:10:14 AM

Is there a spec. sheet on the build somewhere? I'm gathering the build is:

4.125" bore x 4.625" stroke (Axtell/S&S/?)
S&S .640 geardrive cams (Advanced or straight up?)
Hillside heads (What original casting? Valve sizes?)
Static compression?

No matter what... Impressive results!!

K.

Buglet · February 24, 2011, 09:16:02 AM

WHAT TUNER BEING USED.

rob71458 · February 24, 2011, 12:32:04 PM

4.125 x 4.625, 640's straight up, 62 mm TB, I believe 11.5cr with reworked S&S heads. T will correct me if I am wrong.

TripleT · February 24, 2011, 04:22:25 PM

ROB is pretty accurate with his info on the bike, what I believe has set this motor apart from what I previously had is the level 4 Head work HSide produced, Scott mentioned I maxed out his flow bench during testing, think that pretty much states the capability of HS machining. The 62 TB definately adds to the entire package, tuner is Direct Link by Techo Research. Still currently testing with different exhausts to see what will push me over the 170 mark, the highest I have so far is 166/162. If Scott wants to add anything about the build he is free to do so, hope this answers a few questions.

Hillside Motorcycle · February 24, 2011, 04:28:43 PM

2.080" Ferrea intake valves in those heads.
Triple T,
That guy in Mechanicville and I, were discussing some plenum tuning, which is dictated via the cam.
I'd post the formula, but I'm not at the shop presently.
That may be good for a couple more, and is not an expensive endeavor.

Scott

rob71458 · February 24, 2011, 05:50:00 PM

Hey, there is still snow on the ground. Go for it!!!

Hillside Motorcycle · February 25, 2011, 06:05:18 AM

Triple T,
Formula is;

1100 x 1/2 intake cam duration x .705
---------------------------------------
rpm

1100 x 132.5 x .705 102753.75
-------------------- = ------------ = 18.6825" from valve seat to the
5500 5500 end of the air cleaner
mounting surface.
"The constants for each pulse(3rd pulse formula shown)take into consideration the speed of sound, intake tract temperature, and the time the valve is open."
Scott

NCTURBOS · February 25, 2011, 06:17:05 AM

Scott/Trip-T,

Are the heads S&S castings or H-D castings? Also, this is a "B" motor?!?! Even more impressive!!

Thanks,

K.

Hillside Motorcycle · February 25, 2011, 08:38:53 AM

Quote from: NCTURBOS on February 25, 2011, 06:17:05 AM
Scott/Trip-T,

Are the heads S&S castings or H-D castings? Also, this is a "B" motor?!?! Even more impressive!!

Thanks,

K.

Keith,
Yes a "B" engine, with S&S cylinder head castings.

Scott

NCTURBOS · February 25, 2011, 09:25:04 AM

Quote from: Hillsidecyclecom on February 25, 2011, 08:38:53 AM
Quote from: NCTURBOS on February 25, 2011, 06:17:05 AM
Scott/Trip-T,

Are the heads S&S castings or H-D castings? Also, this is a "B" motor?!?! Even more impressive!!

Thanks,

K.

Keith,
Yes a "B" engine, with S&S cylinder head castings.
Scott

Thanks Scott... I now have more faith in my S&S super-stock casting heads for future/bigger builds.

K.

Hillside Motorcycle · March 03, 2011, 03:49:56 AM

Triple T,
Should see those pieces here from HPI any day.

Scott

aharp · March 03, 2011, 06:25:17 AM

Quote from: NCTURBOS on February 25, 2011, 09:25:04 AM
Quote from: Hillsidecyclecom on February 25, 2011, 08:38:53 AM
Quote from: NCTURBOS on February 25, 2011, 06:17:05 AM
Scott/Trip-T,

Are the heads S&S castings or H-D castings? Also, this is a "B" motor?!?! Even more impressive!!

Thanks,
Those castings work really well. Have a set with 2.02 valves that we did going on a 117. They pull very well.

K.

Keith,
Yes a "B" engine, with S&S cylinder head castings.
Scott

Thanks Scott... I now have more faith in my S&S super-stock casting heads for future/bigger builds.

K.

TripleT · March 05, 2011, 05:57:43 PM

Scott,

Are you informed about the injectors joe is working on? after my chat with him today it seems like a bore is possible to 65mm next winter? Any thougts? He continues to say this engine build is unbelievable!

jack5hd · March 08, 2011, 11:27:16 AM

i can't seem to find the dyno chart on this one.............has it been posted?

Hillside Motorcycle · March 08, 2011, 02:17:09 PM

Quote from: TripleT on March 05, 2011, 05:57:43 PM
Scott,

Are you informed about the injectors joe is working on? after my chat with him today it seems like a bore is possible to 65mm next winter? Any thougts? He continues to say this engine build is unbelievable!

T,
Yes, he did tell me what he has up his sleeve.

Scott

TripleT · March 08, 2011, 02:57:10 PM

Thanks Scott, we shall see if the injectors help? Jack5, still testing, I will post SAE uncorrected, STD, Actual when its all buttoned up, very close to that happening. Just tested a few different pipe selections, injectors, etc. This will be a screamer for sure

partycrasher · March 18, 2011, 04:50:03 AM

any updates.......

jack5hd · March 18, 2011, 08:31:50 AM

i am curious also............

Hillside Motorcycle · March 18, 2011, 09:15:45 AM

Triple T told us that he pegged the speedo in 3rd, on the test ride!!
Scott

TripleT · March 18, 2011, 04:50:12 PM

I will post all dyno runs this coming week, probably monday, first I have to go buy some depends after that ride I took yesterday, I'm still shacking after crapping my pants. By far the most powerful machine I have EVER rode, absolutely insane.

TripleT · March 20, 2011, 09:50:37 PM

I will be posting the results on the dyno portion of this site, hope everyone enjoys the numbers, there very strong..

TripleT · March 21, 2011, 04:45:27 PM

Results, after taking this beast for a twist last Weds all is can say is its absolutely insane..

[attachment removed after 60 days by system]

Hillside Motorcycle · March 21, 2011, 05:19:32 PM

Triple T,
You'll probably want to put those over in the dyno section.

Scott

Hogman · March 21, 2011, 05:55:13 PM

Quote from: TripleT on March 21, 2011, 04:45:27 PM
Results, after taking this beast for a twist last Weds all is can say is its absolutely insane..

I THINK I can Sum This All Up, and in ONE Word!!!!

W O W!!!!!!!!!!

Results, after taking this beast for a twist last Weds all is can say is its absolutely insane..
124 SAE3.jpg (14.94 kB, 428x336 - viewed 12 times.)

124 STD4.jpg (46.39 kB, 422x336 - viewed 6 times.)

124 EEC2.jpg (15.19 kB, 430x336 - viewed 4 times.)

124 DIN1.jpg (14.86 kB, 423x336 - viewed 3 times.)

TripleT · March 21, 2011, 06:22:06 PM

Thanks Scott, I will do that. Appreciate the shout out Hogman..

FXDRYDR · March 22, 2011, 06:53:04 AM

HOLY-MOLY!!!!

Absolutely fantastic numbers! Hats off to everyone involved. THat has got to be a hoot to twist!

NCTURBOS · March 22, 2011, 08:21:49 AM

Hey Scott... How do you think the S&S 675g would work in this build? I think you should find out for us...

K.

Hillside Motorcycle · March 22, 2011, 10:41:39 AM

Keith,
Set up a set of heads for a 124"er for an S&S employee(he has left S&S at this point) with the .675.
Never heard the results from that although.
Saw the .715 Red Shift be a rockin' cam in 124's as well.
3500 out is where that one lives large at.
Have another 124"/62mm/Wood 10F combo, comin' round the clubhouse turn now.

Scott

rob71458 · March 22, 2011, 12:11:49 PM

Holy Cow! I better start saving up for next winters upgrades!

pddredduece · March 22, 2011, 01:49:49 PM

I would like a motor like that in my Deuce!

NCTURBOS · March 22, 2011, 02:01:31 PM

Quote from: rob71458 on March 22, 2011, 12:11:49 PM
Holy Cow! I better start saving up for next winters upgrades!

Ha... I've been thinking the same thing!! LOL

K.

GoFast..... · March 22, 2011, 06:07:43 PM

An I hearing this right. 11:7 compression in a 124". That is a race engine and on Joe's old 150 dyno it should run 150+. With any heat you will have to run Jet fuel in it and a jet starter.

Hillside Motorcycle · March 22, 2011, 07:42:19 PM

Joe has had a Dynojet 250i for over a decade.
11.7 is not a pile for that .640 at all.

Scott

sean fxd · March 22, 2011, 08:07:23 PM

<<I THINK I can Sum This All Up, and in ONE Word!!!!

W O W!!!!!!!!!!>>

I am sure there are quite a few members here who also can think of one word to sum this up...but it is not WOW.

Admiral Akbar · March 22, 2011, 10:34:54 PM

Quote from: TripleT on March 21, 2011, 04:45:27 PM
Results, after taking this beast for a twist last Weds all is can say is its absolutely insane..

Too bad about the tq dip,, Joe have any ideas on how to fix it?

Max

TripleT · March 22, 2011, 10:50:30 PM

Max, that tq dip seems to be caused by the exhaust, wish we could test with an never ending supply to get the right match. Next winter i will see if that can be corrected. But, as i did mention previously, what is lost initially is quickly dismissed when this hits. It feels like being shot out of a rocket.

Admiral Akbar · March 22, 2011, 10:54:03 PM

QuoteIt feels like being shot out of a rocket.

Oh, I bet,, Just keep her pointed straight...

Max

TripleT · March 22, 2011, 10:54:23 PM

Go fast, one twist on the throttle and you will be reborn, I can promise you that. Being familiar with jet fuel back in my military days would allow this thing to blast off to the moon, its almost there now.

Hillside Motorcycle · March 23, 2011, 04:20:52 AM

Quote from: MaxHeadflow on March 22, 2011, 10:34:54 PM
Quote from: TripleT on March 21, 2011, 04:45:27 PM
Results, after taking this beast for a twist last Weds all is can say is its absolutely insane..

Too bad about the tq dip,, Joe have any ideas on how to fix it?

Max

Long cam, open pipe, big head, on this very bare-bones Softail.
If it was a road couch, it would not be acceptable.
The dip just gives you a little time to adjust your shorts, before it hits.

Scott

partycrasher · March 23, 2011, 04:34:05 AM

a benefit to the softer low end is very mild manners in town...which is nice.

mayor · March 23, 2011, 06:15:21 AM

Quote from: partycrasher on March 23, 2011, 04:34:05 AM
a benefit to the softer low end is very mild manners in town...which is nice.

not doubting you on this, but generally dips like that is reversion based which makes low rpm's less mannered at lighter throttles. I could be wrong, but I think generally very long cams aren't known for being overly street friendly.

Hillside Motorcycle · March 23, 2011, 06:24:17 AM

Th .640 cam is the OE cam that is offered in the S&S 124" combo.

Scott

rob71458 · March 23, 2011, 08:36:59 AM

I am running the 640 in my bike. It is advanced 4*, but even with my lame ass stock 2.79 gearing it is extremely well mannered.

NCTURBOS · March 23, 2011, 08:39:51 AM

Quote from: Hillsidecyclecom on March 23, 2011, 06:24:17 AM
Th .640 cam is the OE cam that is offered in the S&S 124" combo.
Scott

That cam installed at 11.71:1 static, works out to be 9.65:1 corrected with 202.5 CCP. Give or take a smidge, according to the calculator. That's not too bad to me... My 9B's are at 9.60:1 and 200 CCP according to the same calculator, and I'm fine with BP 93-octane fuel. Other ZIP codes will vary I'm sure.

K.

Hillside Motorcycle · March 23, 2011, 10:34:25 AM

Right on Keith!

Scott

TripleT · March 23, 2011, 02:39:23 PM

NCT, you pretty much smacked the numbers. On another note, It seems some good folks on this site are questioning the builder and the tuner capabilities regarding the crazy power numbers and slight dip in the tq curve. I has been my intention to share this build with hopes of saving someone mega bucks on a project that has been an ongoing project for five years. Not being a jealous type, I can only share the true results of what this motor is producing. Those of you that seem to be worried about that tq curve, Its much more fun to catch and blast by and wave, but I wouldn't dare take a hand off those bars! I will most likely enter some dyno shootouts in the future, then those naysayers will be reminded that numbers speak for themselves.

mayor · March 23, 2011, 04:08:26 PM

Quote from: TripleT on March 23, 2011, 02:39:23 PM
On another note, It seems some good folks on this site are questioning the builder and the tuner capabilities regarding the crazy power numbers

I think you have it all wrong, I don't think anyone is questioning the builder...just the measuring methods used by the tuner. Take that bike to another 250i dyno machine and report the results using WinPep7 software... and if you post those same SAE numbers, I'll bet there's plenty of folks that would be more than happy to eat crow and offer congrats.

In fact, I'll bet there's even plenty of folks on this site that would even be willing to pay for the dyno run.

Admiral Akbar · March 23, 2011, 04:41:38 PM

While I see some like the dip,, I don't ..While it is advantageous to have low tq on the low end on a big motor, I prefer a smother slope.. The main reason is that I like torque to build gradually and not all at once.. The all at once feels good when you are whacking the throttle but maybe not so much fun in the corners. Each to his own.. If you like what you got then good for you.. Pulling that tq dip out will kill the numbers up top...

I don't think any of us doubt the abilities of the builder or tuner but do question the reporting scheme.

Joe's alway reports real numbers on his web site.. It's real interesting that the stock or near stock bikes he show are tested during the hot months and the good builds are testing during the winter and fall.. Go look on his Web site.. You'll see what I mean.. With an obvious bias like that, it make you wonder what other unseen tweaks have been done..

As Mayor says try the bike in another dyno and see what you get.. The best way to validate good numbers is to repeat them.

Max

Admiral Akbar · March 23, 2011, 04:58:13 PM

Quotehey max--As to why his big inch builds are in the winter months...--that's when folks on the east coast do performance work....when the snow is flying and not when it's riding season. Enjoy that california sunshine partner.

No problem with that as long as the output is corrected for temperature and pressure..

Max

BVHOG · March 23, 2011, 05:08:21 PM

Quote from: mayor on March 23, 2011, 04:08:26 PM
Quote from: TripleT on March 23, 2011, 02:39:23 PM
On another note, It seems some good folks on this site are questioning the builder and the tuner capabilities regarding the crazy power numbers
I think you have it all wrong, I don't think anyone is questioning the builder...just the measuring methods used by the tuner. Take that bike to another 250i dyno machine and report the results using WinPep7 software... and if you post those same SAE numbers, I'll bet there's plenty of folks that would be more than happy to eat crow and offer congrats. In fact, I'll bet there's even plenty of folks on this site that would even be willing to pay for the dyno run.

Since he is obviously addressing me I would be happy to eat crow if this thing does the same on another properly calibrated dyno with current software. Corrected bogus data is still just bogus data. Keep in mind there have been more than one of these machines that have left the factory improperly calibrated, you can confirm that with the manufacturer, the good news is that for a relatively reasonable price you can purchase the updated software based off the serial number of your machine and have a stack rebuilt and recaled for a reasonable 100 bucks, no matter what the issue. I had mine done last spring and will have it checked again after this riding season.
The obvious things that stand out besides what Max pointed out is the fact that the reports are done on the antiquated version of the Winpep software (winpep 6) They are also reported unsmoothed, which will raise the numbers, sometimes significantly over a smoothed graph.
It was reported in the past that the particular shop in question had indeed updated to the winpep 7 software, so why not use it? To those who work with these machines on a regular or even semi regular basis it is glaringly obvious what has been going on here. The problem is the newbies that only see numbers and have no understanding of the machines and their shortcomings will be duped into the belief that one shop or the other has some black magic that no one else has discovered yet and open their wallets based on bogus information. In my book, misrepresentation is the same as lying and lying to achieve financial gain is unethical and the same as outright thievery.
Triple T, enjoy your build as 124 cubic inches in a motorcycle is fun by any measure.

BVHOG · March 23, 2011, 05:10:11 PM

Quote from: partycrasher on March 23, 2011, 04:47:09 PM
triple T....all the BS about joe and his numbers has been going on for years....just enjoy your bike....and don't bother with the BS. I see your dyno thread was closed....looks like some BV--BS !

hey max--As to why his big inch builds are in the winter months...--that's when folks on the east coast do performance work....when the snow is flying and not when it's riding season. Enjoy that california sunshine partner.

OK John, just let me know how the new tune you have scheduled turns out. Maybe next time you can take that other 131 you rode the other weekend.

DBC · March 23, 2011, 05:23:28 PM

Maybe there is a nitrous leak in Joe's dyno room

Hillside Motorcycle · March 23, 2011, 05:26:59 PM

Why, is that how you do it??

DBC · March 23, 2011, 05:32:54 PM

ejk_dyna · March 23, 2011, 05:34:03 PM

<<It seems some good folks on this site are questioning the builder and the tuner capabilities>>

TT - really cool build you have and I am sure it hauls ass big time. Most here think Joe is a most excellent tuner and Scott can build a motor with the best of them...I certainly do. The problem most have is a pretty strong belief that the dyno numbers are inflated. Nothing against your killer build.

<<Take that bike to another 250i dyno machine and report the results using WinPep7 software... and if you post those same SAE numbers, I'll bet there's plenty of folks that would be more than happy to eat crow and offer congrats. In fact, I'll bet there's even plenty of folks on this site that would even be willing to pay for the dyno run.>>

I actually arranged for one of these builds to go to fairly close shop (properly calibrated DJ250) and get several pulls for no charge. Two days before, the guy got too busy and then was not interested in doing it after that.

I'll be the first one to bow at the Altar of Joe if these numbers were anywhere close to duplicated on a known legit dyno. I would of thought that by now one of these "Super Joe" builds would of done this just to know for sure....but for some reason that hasn't happened that I am aware of.

TripleT · March 23, 2011, 05:34:15 PM

Quote from: MaxHeadflow on March 23, 2011, 04:58:13 PM
Quotehey max--As to why his big inch builds are in the winter months...--that's when folks on the east coast do performance work....when the snow is flying and not when it's riding season. Enjoy that california sunshine partner.

No problem with that as long as the output is corrected for temperature and pressure..

Max

PC, thanks for the word. But, I must speak whats on my mind, I hope I'm not misinterpreting what was wrote concerning newbies? New to this site or may I ask what? Not trying to insue an argument just clarification. I believe that when you post SAE that Actual should also be mandatory, this will show what the bike is doing that particular day and take into account the correction which as you can see with my build is significant. Also, the guys at dynojet states "win7 does not add or sub hp/tq" I'm not sure who said the particular shop updated with win7? it wasn't me. I know my bike rocks, I do hope this thread help anyone that has the desire to build a 124 for performance. I appreciate all the knowledge and suggestions everyone has shared.

Hillside Motorcycle · March 23, 2011, 06:16:03 PM

Triple T,
We are delighted to have done this premier build with you.
Did I hear something about dyno shoot-outs, in/around your area this summer???
They may just as well, hand over the money/trophys when you show up, and save wear/tear on their dyno's. hehe

Scott

TripleT · March 23, 2011, 06:28:16 PM

ha-ha, thanks Scott, I will be entering some that's a guarantee

mayor · March 23, 2011, 06:33:41 PM

Quote from: TripleT on March 23, 2011, 05:34:15 PM
I hope I'm not misinterpreting what was wrote concerning newbies? New to this site or may I ask what? Not trying to insue an argument just clarification.

I think what was being referred to was folks that are new to being HD engine performance enthusiasts.

Quote from: TripleT on March 23, 2011, 05:34:15 PM
I believe that when you post SAE that Actual should also be mandatory, this will show what the bike is doing that particular day and take into account the correction which as you can see with my build is significant.

So why do you think the "actual" should be mandatory?

and why exactly do you think posting the level of correction is relevent?

The "actual" is just an uncorrected number which means nothing as far as comparisons go. Don't believe me- take that bike and run it on a dyno in Denver, then see if your "actual" is the same. I'm pretty sure there will not be a rule that requires "actual" readings since posting sheets in "actual" does nothing more than confuse the "new" engine enthusiasts. The problem comes in that most "new" enthusiasts do not know that the correction factors even exist, let alone what those corrections are for.

TripleT · March 23, 2011, 07:24:36 PM

I believe it would help to educate new enthusiast, when I started i was under the impression that HP was the number relevant to any day anywhere in the country. Well, after becoming somewhat educated I learned that temperature, humidity, pressure controlled environments utilizing SAE will most always produce the same numbers anywhere. But, its always nice to compare how much power you are really making on that specific day due to the temp, hum, and pressure. In that case, uncorrected power readings would be beneficial to anyone even us older guys. Also, I think it helps to make STD, EEC, DIN, SAE legitmate. Personally Mayor, I think hp will always be in question no matter what build or who tunes, especially when big power is involved. I appreciate you question.

mayor · March 23, 2011, 07:51:46 PM

Quote from: TripleT on March 23, 2011, 07:24:36 PM
Personally Mayor, I think hp will always be in question no matter what build or who tunes, especially when big power is involved.

yep, I agree completely.

pwmorris · March 24, 2011, 12:58:54 AM

Triple T-
Wow...
Torque dip or not-
I have had three versions of the 124's, a 131, and now a G2 126 on the street and these numbers are much stronger than two of the previous 124 versions I ran, and nastier than my G2 126 when I got it from them with it's 4.375 bore-4.187 stroke... You said dyno shootout's this year? Cool-How bout' a pass down the track?
All I can say is, damn-absolutely incredible.

partycrasher · March 24, 2011, 04:45:33 AM

1FSTRK · March 24, 2011, 04:59:41 AM

Does that say 155hp and 152tq SAE?

[attachment removed after 60 days by system]

TripleT · March 24, 2011, 05:10:27 AM

Quote from: 1FSTRK on March 24, 2011, 04:59:41 AM
Does that say 155hp and 152tq SAE?

Yes it does, my scanner is a little old but functional like me

PW, thanks for the input, perhaps that could be a possibility, moving in a few weeks, will search around my new area for a strip.

rob71458 · March 24, 2011, 05:46:38 AM

There may be a "Dip", but it is still above 120ft/lbs., at that point. I think I could live with that.

1FSTRK · March 24, 2011, 06:20:00 AM

I donâ€™t understand all the fuss. You have the SAE sheets you demanded and until winpep7 came out everyone accept the old software as good numbers. If there is a difference itâ€™s not 10 or 15 HP. You have a hybrid motor with flowed heads, 62mm intake, 11.7 to 1 compression, .640 lift cams with 265 degrees of intake duration, hybrid 2 into 1 straight thru exhaust built by a well known professional builder and at least two days of dyno tuning making 1.25 hp per cubic inch. I have seen 124 S&S crate motors touch 150hp with good open exhaust, a carb and good tuning. Itâ€™s not like some new guy posted this saying it was his first bike and he built the motor in his garage and it gets 50 MPG on 2000 mile trips cross country in a 800lb bagger and will pass epa and last 100,000 miles. I have been to a few of the Dayton horsepower shootouts and they make 1.4-1.5 HP per cube with street legal shootout bikes and have been for ten years. It sounds like a lot of soar grapes; I supported the SAE dyno posts because that helps all but now you find some new little things to pick apart. Some of you go on like it was 186hp and that is 1.5 per.
Why not just say GREAT JOB GUYS looks like one fun ride, or mail Scott a check and he will ship you some proof that you can ride yourself

fatboi1959 · March 24, 2011, 07:52:04 AM

rob71458,
I couldn't have said it better :up:That's a dip i could get used to

mayor · March 24, 2011, 08:18:08 AM

Quote from: 1FSTRK on March 24, 2011, 06:20:00 AM
I donâ€™t understand all the fuss.

I think the fuss comes in when the numbers become flaunted and hyped.

Anyone who's been around a while can see that the sheets generally reported from that drum are well above a statistical norm. I have to agree with ejk on reply #99, I don't ever remember seeing any of the high flyers coming off of that tuners drum verified on another dyno. Not one in all the years I've been involved with forums. That just seems odd to me, and apparently it's noticeable to other folks as well. I think the ratio of 1.25:1 hp/ci's coming off of that drum far exceeds a statistical probability ratio from other sources, which further adds to the fuss. The easiest way to calm the fuss down is post a sheet from the same engine from another shop in SAE that is with-in the margin of error for a 250i dyno. I think as soon as this is done, there will be plenty of folks willing to eat a little crow...and as ejk said, bow at the alter of Joe.

Don D · March 24, 2011, 09:15:51 AM

"Great Job Guys"
I am sure this bike rips but please read this

http://books.google.com/books?id=aSKzZIqCk54C&pg=PA87&lpg=PA87&dq=dynojet+150+VS+250+I+numbers&source=bl&ots=P381EOsmtq&sig=yAoC5v7k3pQxDNnPRjsfRkeqqLg&hl=en&ei=G1eLTemyGZSksQPfoPmhCg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CBwQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q&f=false

for an explanation of why some may be calling foul

mayor · March 24, 2011, 09:48:55 AM

I've read that book a couple of times.

JDILLY · March 24, 2011, 10:53:31 AM

I have seen this weapon in action, and now it is going to be a bigger Jap killer. If you ride a Rice Rocket, May God have mercy on your soul when this thing pulls up next to you. I love to see semi-grown men cry LOL haha.
Tracy's friend Buddy

bulldog · March 24, 2011, 11:21:57 AM

Joe's dyno has always been over 10-15 compared to others. He might be a great tuner but his #'s are inflated. END OF STORY!!!!!

partycrasher · March 24, 2011, 12:02:04 PM

BULLDOG--post your comparison dyno sheets from joes dyno and others so we can see for our selves. Forgive us if we just don't take your word for it. And--are saying SAE is over, or just uncorrected?

mayor · March 24, 2011, 12:06:36 PM

Quote from: partycrasher on March 24, 2011, 12:02:04 PM
BULLDOG--post your comparison dyno sheets from joes dyno and others so we can see for our selves. Forgive us if we just don't take your word for it.

I have to give credit where credit is due, well played.

partycrasher · March 24, 2011, 12:56:12 PM

Mayor--Thank you.

Admiral Akbar · March 24, 2011, 01:17:40 PM

Quote from: mayor on March 24, 2011, 09:48:55 AM
I've read that book a couple of times.

Did you have fun marking all the errors..

I'm still looking for some 25KV diodes..

Max

Hillside Motorcycle · March 24, 2011, 01:21:41 PM

Quote from: 1FSTRK on March 24, 2011, 06:20:00 AM
I donâ€™t understand all the fuss. You have the SAE sheets you demanded and until winpep7 came out everyone accept the old software as good numbers. If there is a difference itâ€™s not 10 or 15 HP. You have a hybrid motor with flowed heads, 62mm intake, 11.7 to 1 compression, .640 lift cams with 265 degrees of intake duration, hybrid 2 into 1 straight thru exhaust built by a well known professional builder and at least two days of dyno tuning making 1.25 hp per cubic inch. I have seen 124 S&S crate motors touch 150hp with good open exhaust, a carb and good tuning. Itâ€™s not like some new guy posted this saying it was his first bike and he built the motor in his garage and it gets 50 MPG on 2000 mile trips cross country in a 800lb bagger and will pass epa and last 100,000 miles. I have been to a few of the Dayton horsepower shootouts and they make 1.4-1.5 HP per cube with street legal shootout bikes and have been for ten years. It sounds like a lot of soar grapes; I supported the SAE dyno posts because that helps all but now you find some new little things to pick apart. Some of you go on like it was 186hp and that is 1.5 per.
Why not just say GREAT JOB GUYS looks like one fun ride, or mail Scott a check and he will ship you some proof that you can ride yourself

Thanks for the kind words.

We've have built carbed 124" Evo/S&S D 2/Tjets/.715 Red shift/Cycle Shack 2" staggered duals, our heads, and ripped damn near those numbers here, on our Dynojet 150, almost 10 years ago. We called it the ICBM Bike.
Yes, right side of the chart biased, as well.
That was in a Dyna, with a 4" longer aluminum swingarm.
152/155 SAE, from Triple T's is in/about where you'd suspect this to land, all things considered.
Not hard to fathom that whatsoever.

Scott

TripleT · March 24, 2011, 02:01:48 PM

Quote from: bulldog on March 24, 2011, 11:21:57 AM
Joe's dyno has always been over 10-15 compared to others. He might be a great tuner but his #'s are inflated. END OF STORY!!!!!

Its pretty dissappointing to read some of these post, especially if we are all supposed to have the same interest in obtaining and maintaining quality builds and numbers. Nice to see my non biased friend who witnessed this bike run last yr, wait until he experiences it this year.

It seems everyone wants to see different numbers from a different tuner, let me answer that question. I have no problems and will do that when I can find a tuner of equal capability with the excellence joe has demonstrated for years. One that I don't have to take a high mileage road trip to see, one that handles my bike like they own it, one I can leave it at his personal storage without any worries, one that treats all their customers with respect, one that will let me pull my own runs, kinda cancels out the throttle cheating theory, one that allows me to witness his skill at work, one that will get everything out of a bike, no matter how many pulls it takes, just to name a few. I live in upstate NY, any suggestions are welcome please.

mayor · March 24, 2011, 03:28:17 PM

Quote from: TripleT on March 24, 2011, 02:01:48 PM
It seems everyone wants to see different numbers from a different tuner, let me answer that question. I have no problems and will do that when I can find a tuner of equal capability with the excellence joe has demonstrated for years.

if the bike's already tuned, what relevance does the capability of the tuner at another shop have?

All your looking to do is verify the results you already published right? Your tune isn't going to change once you leave Joe's shop.

Post the county you live in, and I'm sure someone can point to a dyno nearby to confirm your results without you having to travel too far. how far are you willing to travel?

Quote from: TripleT on March 24, 2011, 02:01:48 PM
Its pretty dissappointing to read some of these post, especially if we are all supposed to have the same interest in obtaining and maintaining quality builds and numbers.

I'm probably way off base here, but I would think a quality build would be one that puts up consistant numbers no matter what dyno is measuring the output.

so, if anything having the run verified elsewhere should make you feel better about the quality of the build ....and the numbers.

TripleT · March 24, 2011, 03:58:16 PM

Mayor,

The reason is simple for me to answer, when you invest the cost of a house in your bike its important for me to know my investment, yes, I view this as an investment, no only in $ but also knowledge will be handled by a professional even if I'm not there to witness. Many seem to bash the tuner I use for numbers, this shouldn't get confused with the way the shop cares for your machine. Your not out of line, the numbers don't b/s, so when I post those new numbers I'm confident of the outcome, why you say, because I know what this bike did last year when challenged and thats without level 4 and 62. I will be moving to St. Lawerence County in upstate NY next month, any suggestions from the good folks on this site?

Hillside Motorcycle · March 24, 2011, 04:00:18 PM

It is a quality build.

partycrasher · March 24, 2011, 04:15:57 PM

Triple T.--A word to the wise. A few years back i got caught up in this same rigmarole about Joe's dyno. I took the bike to a so called "reputable" tuner....and the results- SAE -were virtually spot on. I posted those results on that forum.....and soon there after--the naysayers found 20 more excuses.

Unlike those green eyed bullies, HTT is manned with more chivalrous gents who would never ban a brother for speaking the truth. But sometimes, as the saying goes, the truth shall set you free......and then you too will have to find another forum to roam.

I say--grip it 'n' rip it 'n' let that big dog eat!! To hell with the rest.

mayor · March 24, 2011, 04:32:25 PM

Quote from: partycrasher on March 24, 2011, 04:15:57 PM
A few years back i got caught up in this same rigmarole about Joe's dyno. I took the bike to a so called "reputable" tuner....and the results- SAE -were virtually spot on.

Amazingly--i was banned from that forum soon thereafter.

what was that phrase you posted earlier? yea, it was this: post your comparison dyno sheets from joes dyno and others so we can see for our selves. Forgive us if we just don't take your word for it.

Quote from: Hillsidecyclecom on March 24, 2011, 04:00:18 PM
It is a quality build.

not doubting that, that sentence was used in reference to what 3T posted. Just playing on the words he posted.

partycrasher · March 24, 2011, 05:00:16 PM

...why can't we put a moratorium on this issue. All these wolf criers are simply beating the drums for the pleasure of hearing their own noise......

...sheets have been posted, and yet the insanity resumes....

Admiral Akbar · March 24, 2011, 05:02:48 PM

If you wan to show more HP take it to Battlefield HD..

Max

mayor · March 24, 2011, 05:10:36 PM

hey now there Max.

Hillside Motorcycle · March 24, 2011, 05:52:26 PM

Quote from: mayor on March 24, 2011, 04:32:25 PM
Quote from: partycrasher on March 24, 2011, 04:15:57 PM
A few years back i got caught up in this same rigmarole about Joe's dyno. I took the bike to a so called "reputable" tuner....and the results- SAE -were virtually spot on.

Amazingly--i was banned from that forum soon thereafter.

what was that phrase you posted earlier? yea, it was this: post your comparison dyno sheets from joes dyno and others so we can see for our selves. Forgive us if we just don't take your word for it.

Quote from: Hillsidecyclecom on March 24, 2011, 04:00:18 PM
It is a quality build.
not doubting that, that sentence was used in reference to what 3T posted. Just playing on the words he posted.

Mayor,
You are alright.

Scott

aharp · March 24, 2011, 06:12:35 PM

All these attacks on joe's dyno come with an underlying implication that Hillside's builds wouldnt be any better than what others are doing if they were tuned on a different dyno by a different tuner. I find it hard to believe that Doc's dyno, Jamie's dyno, hell my dyno for that matter are all inflated. I made 100+/100+ with an 88" on pump gas all day long. Wheres the haters? Partycrasher said it best IMO. In these forums, if you cant make the numbers then you suck at building motors. If you make great numbers then the haters jump on it and call BS. Damned either way. Remember, you cant have a target on your back unless your in the front.

TripleT · March 24, 2011, 06:41:08 PM

aharp, a

for you Sir..

ejk_dyna · March 24, 2011, 06:57:33 PM

wow...totally off topic but is that true...partycrasher is alibiforyou?

Rusty Steel · March 24, 2011, 09:54:15 PM

Quote from: ejk_dyna on March 24, 2011, 06:57:33 PM
wow...totally off topic but is that true...partycrasher is alibiforyou?

LMAO.. That's what I was thinking too!
This thread has pretty much run out of any usefulness....

Goodnight all.

partycrasher · March 25, 2011, 06:34:30 AM

Quote from: pwmorris on March 24, 2011, 12:58:54 AM
Triple T-
Wow...
Torque dip or not-
I have had three versions of the 124's, a 131, and now a G2 126 on the street and these numbers are much stronger than two of the previous 124 versions I ran, and nastier than my G2 126 when I got it from them with it's 4.375 bore-4.187 stroke... You said dyno shootout's this year? Cool-How bout' a pass down the track?
All I can say is, damn-absolutely incredible.

Triple t......after hearing so much about your torque dip i went and took another look at your sheet---seems like you are running 125 lbs TQ for you bottom end.....no wonder why you don't feel any TQ dip.....good for you man.

partycrasher · March 25, 2011, 06:37:14 AM

Quote from: 1FSTRK on March 24, 2011, 04:59:41 AM
Does that say 155hp and 152tq SAE?

.....or sae corrected at 115.....is it touchy down low or nice and smooth in low rpm???

SQUIDLY · March 25, 2011, 06:58:47 AM

Two types of people in this world. The "HAVE'S" and "HAVE NOTS". It seems that if you are a HAVE NOT, then you put down the people that HAVE. I sure wish I HAD the money to build something as powerful as TripleT's Night Train. Am I jealous?? Sure... But I am not going to drag his accoplishment through the dirt.

a

to TripleT

mayor · March 25, 2011, 07:12:42 AM

Quote from: SQUIDLY on March 25, 2011, 06:58:47 AM
Am I jealous?? Sure... But I am not going to drag his accomplishment through the dirt.

maybe I missed something, but when is mentioning the obvious (tq dip) or the slightly less obvious but still noticeable item (higher than average number of 1.25 hp/c.i. ratio's coming out of a particular shop) dragging someones particular accomplishments through the dirt? The key point to remember is, this section of our forum is tech related. That means that anything that gets posted here is fair game for tech discussions (as long as they stay civil). Please keep in mind, this site first and foremost is a tech site (there's other sites available if the intent was nothing more than displaying one's personal treasures- i.e. facebook, etc.). If the intent of the thread was to show what could be done with the right amount of effort, then all comments of what could be done to improve it is fair game. If this thread was going to be nothing more than a bragging thread about a particular accomplishment, then it should have been posted in Earl's section.

mayor

hotbo · March 25, 2011, 07:19:13 AM

that is a nasty torque dip,but none the less you probably wont feel and with that kinda power so what imo

very nice work coming from the Palmer Bros.

1 thing about jealousy is a disease once you get it you can never get rid of it no matter how hard you try.

i found out sometimes combos just work and apparently they have some pretty stout combos coming out of there doors and a lot of Happy customers.

Best of luck to the new ride and enjoy it every time you twist that Big Wick up

Travis

HD/Wrench · March 25, 2011, 01:34:40 PM

Well he is making more power than this 124 and it has stock heads.

[attachment removed after 60 days by system]

partycrasher · March 25, 2011, 02:50:23 PM

gmr....didn't you have a 124 of your own making big numbers...post that sheet for us to see....it was a monster

-JC-1 · March 25, 2011, 03:12:36 PM

Quote from: partycrasher on March 25, 2011, 02:50:23 PM
gmr....didn't you have a 124 of your own making big numbers...post that sheet for us to see.

I remember that! in the 160's IIRC!

hrdtail78 · March 25, 2011, 04:10:01 PM

Quote from: ejk_dyna on March 24, 2011, 06:57:33 PM
wow...totally off topic but is that true...partycrasher is alibiforyou?

Yep, sure is.

The numbers I would like to see on Joes dyno is the correction factor and run conditions. Quick math shows SAE 93% and the STD is .97%.

BVHOG · March 25, 2011, 04:46:47 PM

Wow, the gmr 124 Deuce is an OLD story, I remember a few things about that bike from the other forum, custom raised port heads, I believe the balancers were removed and it was a VERY high comp build, don't remember cam specs off hand. As I recall it had just about every mod you would typically do to a race bike (coated parts, lightened crank etc.)but was used as a street bike.

HD/Wrench · March 25, 2011, 04:57:39 PM

Sure thing John,
Here are the specs on my old 124,

Balancers removed, extremely lighted crank darkhorse 4.625, coated non stick on crank, pistons, rods.
R&R welded/ raised port heads , jigged geometry 2.080 intake 1.710 ex, These where one offs to try to be as close to the R&R oval port billet head, 4 comp releases
REV 4.125 cylinders 12.9.1 or 13.1 compression ( might have been more as we did play with cam timing & head gaskets been too long now) CCP in the 130 range
S&S 640 challenge cam custom rocker ratio both intake and exhaust by Dan B
Zippers 54 MM t/b with porting, modded manifold
Primo belt drive & chain conversion kit.
back cut gears, coated gears, lightened shafts, ( gun drilled on one or both shafts again been a long time) fully prepped for drag racing.
white bros e pipe mountain motor core ( modded)
I am sure there is more ,
oh yea coated cams, lifters, gears , custom inner keys for timing on both front and rear cams.

Ran good at the time when we had good fuel...

fell short for a full drag engine though, needed more compression and some race fuel then it would have been fun, but tough lugging a starter cart around with you.

I still might have the flow sheets from the first head porter on the east coast as well when they went on the R&R bench before and after. Was told the ports where chewed up pretty bad. and where not flowing anywhere near the numbers that I got on the sheets with the heads. Oh well they worked very well once welded and re done.

Waiting to see if I can post the sheet as it does not meet the regs on this site, But I think it is up on my site as well, not sure not that important really.

partycrasher · March 25, 2011, 05:03:16 PM

i remember it being a monster build....

HD/Wrench · March 25, 2011, 05:08:28 PM

I was looking for some stuff the other day and came across a old time slip from firebird race way 10.10 pass it got wet I cann see what the MPH was but I think it was showing 129 -133 or so, meaning it needed more gear LOL , it was a monster I had to put in a custom 1 inch rear axle.

-JC-1 · March 25, 2011, 05:19:15 PM

I saved that dyno- very impressive!

[attachment removed after 60 days by system]

TripleT · March 25, 2011, 05:46:58 PM

Wow, impressive to say the least

TripleT · March 25, 2011, 06:12:05 PM

During the tuning stage, I was concerned also with that tq dip, but after riding the bike you can't even notice except massive wheel spin in 1, 2, and 3rd, so I don't think its a problem and the massive explosion when it hooks up. But, those who know me understand I will try to eliminate any potential weak link by all possible means. Exhaust changes, fuel psi, injectors, etc, I wanted to see if that dip would be present when more hp/tq is added after exhausting all possible combos without cracking her open. Also, I wanted to ensure my clutch would hold up under such extremes measures. So, this is what happens to this build with a 30 horse shot of nitrious, bike didn't even flinch. Wow, look at that tq dip, its still present, amazing.

[attachment removed after 60 days by system]

mayor · March 25, 2011, 06:22:26 PM

did Joe give you any dyno sheets which reports "gear ratio by engine speed" ? that chart is a good way to see what your clutch is doing.

TripleT · March 25, 2011, 06:43:57 PM

Mayor, I will contact tomorrow regarding that question, interesting..

HD/Wrench · March 25, 2011, 06:44:06 PM

now that is impressive gotta love the juice

mayor · March 25, 2011, 06:51:55 PM

Quote from: TripleT on March 25, 2011, 06:43:57 PM
Mayor, I will contact tomorrow regarding that question, interesting..

this is the chart you want to ask for:

TripleT · March 25, 2011, 07:22:38 PM

will do, thanks mayor

mayor · March 25, 2011, 07:38:52 PM

Triple, reply #26 on this thread has some various examples of the chart I posted showing clutch engagement issues:
http://harleytechtalk.com/htt/index.php/topic,677.0.html

Admiral Akbar · March 25, 2011, 08:24:10 PM

Quote from: GMR-PERFORMANCE on March 25, 2011, 01:34:40 PM
Well he is making more power than this 124 and it has stock heads.

What but that was on a warm day..

Max

Admiral Akbar · March 25, 2011, 08:26:16 PM

Quote from: TripleT on March 25, 2011, 06:43:57 PM
Mayor, I will contact tomorrow regarding that question, interesting..

Ask him for the run files..

Max

pwmorris · March 25, 2011, 11:47:47 PM

Wow!
This is gettin' better and better! Forget the juice-Go All Motor! Here's 7 more cubes to add to the fun-Naturally aspirated of course....amazing what a little compressin will do to a motor

partycrasher · March 26, 2011, 03:45:29 AM

that doesn't look naturally aspirated....but supercharged.

Hillside Motorcycle · March 26, 2011, 05:42:15 AM

Quote from: pwmorris on March 25, 2011, 11:47:47 PM
Wow!
This is gettin' better and better! Forget the juice-Go All Motor! Here's 7 more cubes to add to the fun-Naturally aspirated of course....amazing what a little compressin will do to a motor

Paul,
Did that run have our Double D, cross-ram carb set-up on it?
Scott

HD/Wrench · March 26, 2011, 08:00:19 AM

Hey paul got that link to Bobs drag bike on the dyno, that ripped the drum up in a blink of the eye,

DBC · March 26, 2011, 09:10:51 AM

Here ya go Fast Drag Harley On The Dyno at HCW Horn Cycle Works

pwmorris · March 26, 2011, 09:36:24 AM

Quote from: partycrasher on March 26, 2011, 03:45:29 AM
that doesn't look naturally aspirated....but supercharged.

My old 131" Naturally Aspirated-
S&S cases, Big Red Shift cam, Axtell Barrels, Baisley heads, and cross ram manifold. I'm sure they are fun but I've never ridden a supercharged bike -I like to make big power the old fashion way.

HD/Wrench · March 26, 2011, 09:41:55 AM

COME ON!!! Give up the details on what rpm that started at and went to and the power it pushed. That is one smokin fasssst pull

mayor · March 26, 2011, 09:52:14 AM

Quote from: GMR-PERFORMANCE on March 26, 2011, 08:00:19 AM
Hey paul got that link to Bobs drag bike on the dyno, that ripped the drum up in a blink of the eye,

wow that thing spooled the drum in like 2 sec.

damn...

pwmorris · March 26, 2011, 09:53:15 AM

Quote from: GMR-PERFORMANCE on March 26, 2011, 09:41:55 AM
COME ON!!! Give up the details on what rpm that started at and went to and the power it pushed. That is one smokin fasssst pull

Quote from: mayor on March 26, 2011, 09:52:14 AM
Quote from: GMR-PERFORMANCE on March 26, 2011, 08:00:19 AM
Hey paul got that link to Bobs drag bike on the dyno, that ripped the drum up in a blink of the eye,
wow that thing spooled the drum in like 2 sec. damn...

Hell yeah!
Love it!

mayor · March 26, 2011, 09:56:12 AM

I honestly don't think I have the intestinal fortitude to twist the wick on something like that.

DBC · March 26, 2011, 10:12:02 AM

The dyno run was in fifth gear from 2500rpm to 8500rpm it spun the drum to 152mph in 2.4 seconds. Here is some of the spec's ; 120 cid. about 1.7 hp per cubic inch, 4 3/8" bore , Static comp. 16:1 , CCP Front 320 lbs. Rear 316lbs. 8" knife edge flywheels, aluminum rods, the cam that's in it now is a split pattern .806" lift intake .800" lift exhaust I won't give any other data on the cam, dual 50mm Fast By Gast carbs, Billet heads, Titainium valves, titainium wrist pins. I have over $30,000 in the motor.

partycrasher · March 26, 2011, 11:37:34 AM

AWESOME

bigpete1 · March 26, 2011, 11:47:51 AM

Quote from: DBChoppers on March 26, 2011, 10:12:02 AM
The dyno run was in fifth gear from 2500rpm to 8500rpm it spun the drum to 152mph in 2.4 seconds. Here is some of the spec's ; 120 cid. about 1.7 hp per cubic inch, 4 3/8" bore , Static comp. 16:1 , CCP Front 320 lbs. Rear 316lbs. 8" knife edge flywheels, aluminum rods, the cam that's in it now is a split pattern .806" lift intake .800" lift exhaust I won't give any other data on the cam, dual 50mm Fast By Gast carbs, Billet heads, Titainium valves, titainium wrist pins. I have over $30,000 in the motor.

that is awesome ,what kind of times does this run at the track ?thanks pete

TripleT · March 26, 2011, 12:22:26 PM

Hope I never see that missile on the street, what an animal

mayor · March 26, 2011, 12:58:21 PM

Quote from: DBChoppers on March 26, 2011, 10:12:02 AM
The dyno run was in fifth gear from 2500rpm to 8500rpm it spun the drum to 152mph in 2.4 seconds. Here is some of the spec's ; 120 cid. about 1.7 hp per cubic inch, 4 3/8" bore , Static comp. 16:1 , CCP Front 320 lbs. Rear 316lbs. 8" knife edge flywheels, aluminum rods, the cam that's in it now is a split pattern .806" lift intake .800" lift exhaust I won't give any other data on the cam, dual 50mm Fast By Gast carbs, Billet heads, Titainium valves, titainium wrist pins. I have over $30,000 in the motor.

wow, that's far from run of the mill there. In all seriousness, I think you earned this:

Hillside Motorcycle · March 26, 2011, 02:32:39 PM

Our 108" AHDRA racer with House of Horsepower cases, STD round-port heads, .813" lift custom ground(to our specs)by Comp Cam, 4 3/4" arm/3 13/16" hole, Del West titanium valve blanks, S&S Big Twin wheels turned to S&S XL race wheel diameter,(they never shifted/sissored/slipped) thinned/knifed(here) Carillo rods, J&E blank top pistons machined here, with tapered-wall tool steel wrist pins, to set it at 17.25 cr, would BURY a Snap-On 350 psi compression guage, with our Double B S&S carbs, 2 Thunderjets each, cross-ram set-up, and 2 3/8" custom in-house pipes, would blow through a dyno pull in a little under 2.8 seconds from 3500-7300-7500 rpms.
Might have $7500.00 in the engine. Much more time vested, than money though.
That is what those do, and that is what they are supposed to do.
Friend of ours 114"(5 x3 13/16) Iron XL AHDRA bike would show about the same.
Again, no revelation whatsoever, as that is the total intent of that engine/bike/gearing.

Scott

News:

Hillside 124 dual cam

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