TTS closed loop conversion to a '04 touring, need a starting cal

[Thumper Buttercup]

Well Houston we have a problem.

We were waiting for the last of our 02 wiring stuff and I decided to hookup
to the bike and save our ECM Cal and up load the new Cal.

We'll we saved our old one with no errors and then up loaded the new Cal.

Then we started getting P0113, P0118, P0123 errors, clear them turn off the
bike and they would return, checked the units all getting 5 volts.  These are
all brand new sensors.  So we pulled out our 04 ECM.....no errors.

This is the 05 ECM PN# 32534-05A that we purchased from Rev-Perf when
we went to their unit.  Maybe this has been going bad all a long, it was a used
one with a dent on the backside.

So I called the Dealer, I was lucky they had a 32534-05C in stock, well they
programmed in our Vin and a basic cal for us and we priority mailed our ECM's
and TTS interface to Steve to get the new ECM married up.

Come on Steve if you are reading this we need this one old buddy.  We've been
fighting this thing for two months.

I hope you guys had a much better day than us.

[mayor]

I tried calling Steve today, but he wasn't in the office. He's been out on the road at a show somewhere.  I think Vicki said he was going to be back in tomorrow. 

you think the ecm might have been your issues with the RP product?

[Thumper Buttercup]

Mike we checked the bike for errors during all of this
and we did not get one error.

If fact the errors did not show up until we did the save and loaded the new
cal into the EMS.

[DirtNap]

Sorry to see you having some problems with the conversion.I did some what the same conversion on my 04 fxsti .I took my chances with a ebay ecm & o2  I seemed to come out good .Except for slapping together a map .Hopefully the new ecm works out .I can maybe pick up some info from you .

[Thumper Buttercup]

Hey DirtNap,

   I'm just crusing along, Steve, Mayor and the group are helping me out here,
I'm standing on the edge of the Grand Canyon and looking down at my learning
curve .

Been sitting here for a few days working on my start cal and reading a couple
groups along the way and making changes when i read something that might help.

Mark

[DirtNap]

I wasnt aware of this place at the time of my conversion .It would have sure been helpful to me. The conversion was well written out and easy to understand.It even listed the part numbers i needed . The map was a whole different story ,there was no info im aware of that was directly related to the conversion.So i had to pick though every setting and research ever single setting to be certain it was correct .I found out that i had to correct injectors to 4.35 and the primary ratio to 1.440 and still dont know if it is correct .Then luckily i found a mt7 (bhd105-03)file that was the exact build i have and blended  it into a m8 to take full advantage of the tts software .I changed around so many things i lost count .I almost wish i just went had my bike bike tuned open loop.

I dont mean to invade your thread .Im just thinking me and you may be the only conversions around . I want to exchange as much info as possible for others,myself and you to read.

[hrdtail78]

I'm a convert.

[Thumper Buttercup]

If all goes well we will be doing our first V-Tune this afternoon.

Steve busted his butt and got our EMS back out yesterday .

But he went beyond that and made us a custom map.

Been sitting here last night and this morning reading over Mayors
post where he did all his tuning trying to pick up a couple pointers.

Now if Fed Ex can deliver we will be in business.

Thanks Steve for all the hard work .


Mark & Kim

[mayor]

If all goes well we will be doing our first V-Tune this afternoon.

I'd suggest opening a box.net account (free) so you can post your vtune run recordings. Make sure you post your calibrations used during those recordings as well.  This will allow you to get active feedback from the forum members regarding your tune, which should help you speed up the process and should help catch potential problems if any pop up along the way.   

[Thumper Buttercup]

OK thanks to Steve we are back in business, and thanks to Mayor for helping
with our V-tune cal.  Now to just get some time to ride the bike and get her
sorted out.

Thank you Steve for getting us fixed so fast and putting together a Cal file.

[mayor]

Mark & Kim,

once you get your vtuning complete: after you convert the calibration to regular use (AE, DE, Knock Retard, afr, etc.) you should run a regular data recording to see if your knock retard function is pulling any timing.  Here's how you record regular data: click on file, then select record data.



when you click on that, the program will then have you select a location that the recording will be saved at on your hard drive, and data recording control center will pop-up.  In the data recording center, select generic data:

The generic data records at a little less speed (frames/sec) than the generic o2 data, but it also records speed which is helpful in getting a better picture of what is happening during the data run.  When you are riding during the data recording, you want to vary the load and rpm's as much as you can. 

[Thumper Buttercup]

We'll after our high speed run last week and the top end sounded like it wanted to
defect we did some adjustments to the push rods and took them to 3 1/2 turns.

We also pulled two more disks from the muffler to drop it down to 14, noise wise
this is where we want the bike, but we might have to put back two disks for MPG.

Now the bike sounds great at the higher rpm's, got out today and made a couple
runs, here is the last v-tune and histogram of the last run.

Bike ran good but MPG dropped into the mid 30's today even on the run home at 65 mph.

Hey Mike, you have e-mail with some data .

[mayor]

I'm actually reviewing the data right now.  The vtune runs looked pretty good.  You were filling in the histograms real good.      

There was no timing being pulled during the data recording (-018), which is a real good start.   

I think 14 discs and closed cap is just not enough flow, but that's just my opinion.  I think you would be best served with 17-19 w/ closed cap.  if you change, you will need to vtune again to dial in the ve's. 

[Thumper Buttercup]

The day we ran that tune of yours and took it easy we got 40 + 45 mpg with 16 disks
and the closed end cap.

Today runing the hard run for the histogram we got 37.8+ mpg, but I expected
to get better than 35.7 doing that last data run and keeping it easy.

Do you think that two disks could have made that big of a change???

[mayor]

running hard you got almost 38? run it for a while, and see what it does.  Heck, there was times I was vtuning where I was getting 30-32. 

[Thumper Buttercup]

You see any tweaking we need to do???  It was funny that our MPG went
down on that data run, when I turned the Decel and Acc and the rest back to
the original settings did that do anything??

[mayor]

I didn't see anything that popped out.  I'll study the data run to see if there's anything obvious. 

[mayor]

You see any tweaking we need to do???  It was funny that our MPG went
down on that data run, when I turned the Decel and Acc and the rest back to
the original settings did that do anything??

I looked at the data recording you sent me, and I didn't see anything that stuck out but I have a couple of suggestions to try.  The bulk of your scan data was run at higher afr settings (CLB 759= ~14.54) and higher timing settings (40-45 degrees), so that's likely not your mpg issue.  Here's a MegaLog Viewer graph that should help visualize what the data run looked like:

the graph on the right represents your "desired afr", and that big patch of red is indicating the bulk is at or around your closed loop settings.  The graph on the left is the set timing, and that big patch of red indicates that the bulk of your riding was higher timing settings. 

The green circled areas are potential areas to improve milage.  It's unlikely to make drastic improvements, but it's worth a try since these are areas that you will be unlikely to feel a difference with slight tweaks. 

here's your current set desired afr:


here's what I would suggest that table be set to:

your set wide open was 13.0, but 13.2-13.5 isn't going to produce that much less power (although, since vtuning does not guarantee accurate ve's in the 90-100% MAP ranges...we do not know for sure that these values are accurate anyway). 

I also do not think that the decel needs to be set as rich as it was.  The sound of the exhaust will tell you if this is acceptable.  If you notice no change in the way the decel sounds, the new settings are fine.

in addition to the afr table changes, I think the PE AFR table needs changed (power enrichment air/fuel ratio).  Here's the current:

I have seen this table take affect with normal riding and it can override the afr table, so I think it's a good idea to match the desired PE afr to the afr desired afr at 100 map at least for the first few cells. Here's the changes I would suggest:


there's a cal attached based on your -018 with the above suggested changes.  Run another data run just like you previous an we'll see if the tweaks made any difference.   

[attachment removed after 60 days by system]

[mayor]

for those wanting to see the data recording info, here's the files:

scandata-018:
http://www.box.net/shared/1dm5jpb9epejjzjpsahg

scandata CSV file (for MLV):
http://www.box.net/shared/ajs1o1pxt3ses9vmdk5b

cal -018 should be attached

[attachment removed after 60 days by system]

[Thumper Buttercup]

Thanks Mike,

   We'll give it a shot, looking at running our loop tomorrow and see what she does.
On gravel coming home the bike did not feel as smooth but I thought it was me,
I asked Kim and she felt the same thing so the upper rpm on the 20% could have
been what we felt.

We will keep the 14 disks plus the closed end-cap for now, and will increase if needed
and re-tune then.

I was looking at everything we had done last night and Steve had me do a cam timing
for the opening ( yep I know this is late in the game, but we jumped on the insurance
crap first then came back to the bike two weeks later ).  Like I said he had me check
cam opening but I went back to check the cam closing and found I did not run the
bike high enough to check the closing.  I'll do a closing check this afternoon to make
sure we are good to go there.

I meant to do this but kept forgetting with all the other crap we were working on, that is
one reason I wanted to do this on the bike when we had nothing else on the agenda.

On a side note, when we were running the Rev-Perf EMS and did a roll on with my buddy
I had to run the bike up to 5000 rpms to run hard for the next shift, well yesterday you
saw that second stop where we idled, we checked on a friend on the side of the road and
took off.

I noticed that the bike is pulling so much harder that I shifted at 4000 rpms and we did not
need to go to 5000 rpms like we did before to keep pulling hard on the next gear.


We'll post up more later.

Mark & Kim

[Thumper Buttercup]

OK, did a cam run to check the closing, I think it looks good but I was expecting the same type
of data you get from a Open Cam check.

Open Cam check



Closed Cam check



I also opened a Box.net account and here is the cam data run.


Cam-Data run 4
http://www.box.net/shared/aa17afufym4zskj7z665

[lonewolf]

You can't do the IVC without being on a dyno. You have to hold 3500+/- 50 rpm with ve tables calibrated to an open loop afr and collect the data from 60-100kpa.

[mayor]

You can't do the IVC without being on a dyno. You have to hold 3500+/- 50 rpm with ve tables calibrated to an open loop afr and collect the data from 60-100kpa.

I have my 48's set at 3 open 2 close.  If you change your cam close from 3 to 2, make sure you reVtune.   

[Thumper Buttercup]

OK ,

   We are going to do this right, we will re-vtune tomorrow and get in two more
runs, cams changed to 3 open and 2 close.  I will create a vtune 20 using your
ready 19 file Mike.  We'll back off the road test day for Friday.

Mike any problem with the other table changes or just leave them??


Mark

[mayor]

make sure you turn PE mode off by switching the trigger rpm to 10,000 in the ecm tuning constants section.  I only made the changes listed in my earlier post, so you could just use your last vtune file and make those same changes when you are done.