TTS closed loop conversion to a '04 touring, need a starting cal

[Thumper Buttercup]

Got rid of everything after 017, got 017 loaded with the cam changes and
ready to go, will redo yesterday and get two good v-tunes and a data run
home after turning everything back on.

I won't make any other changes until we see the result.  Thanks Mike,
I thought of this a couple times and kept getting caught up in other things
and forgot it.

Mark

[Thumper Buttercup]

We got out one more time, boy this route is getting old but it works for tuning.

First run out there.



Results





Second run



Results






This is what our VT's look like after the last run.



This is our rear, and to me it looking better than the front.



We have a data run done it's a boring one we did a few pulls but mostly laid back and tried
to unwind.  On this run which was 65 to 70 mph and some pulls through the gears we only
got 37.4 mpg.  So hopefully we can work it up some more from here.


Here is a link to our runs and the final run for the day.

http://www.box.net/shared/uly4i2thbgg7hvfd64tk

[powersmoke]

mark--
It appears we are trying to get to the same destination, just taking a different route,...

Question for you..and anyon else that knows...
I know its got to be a product of style and technique--but how in the world are you consisitantly hitting the top left corner cells? And NOT hitting the top/ upper mid right?

I have little success gettting a single green cell below 1750, much less 1500...
i cant let the clutch out that low.


oh...duh..
your chart is  reflecting TP..not MAP..disregard!

[mayor]

Question for you..and anyon else that knows...
I know its got to be a product of style and technique--but how in the world are you consisitantly hitting the top left corner cells? And NOT hitting the top/ upper mid right?

Power, you're comparing apples to oranges.  Your bike is lambda based, thumper's is afr based.  Lambda based ve tables are divided by MAP and AFR based is divided by throttle position (but the vtune data is still MAP limited to ~27-83 kPa). 

[Thumper Buttercup]

I've got a 7" monitor mounted on a RAM mount on the handle bars, I use what Mayor
said to do as in just get rolling and jump a few gears and work it but not lug it.

That first run starts at home on gravel the second run is in a small town, all asphalt
roads and small hills, so I run around the town a couple runs to fill in most of the lower
area, then head out on the local roads where it's really hilly, that the traffic is hardly
anyone around we can slow to a craw and work the bike through the gears and I
can watch on the monitor and hunt the boxes to fill them in.

[mayor]

Results

what did you change before this vtune? add the discs back on?

[Thumper Buttercup]

Just the cam setting, we deleted the working tunes and took that last tune we did
this week.  Changed cam from 3 open 3 closed to 3 open 2 closed.

[Thumper Buttercup]

Hey Mike,

     Is the Peaks on the VE tables from me chasing the blocks and those area's needing
more data??

     What if we do our normal route tomorrow and work the areas that we normally
ride and concentrate from 2000 to 4500 rpm's.  When we get home we will check
the tables and change back any area that changes that we did not ride in???

What you think on this one?

[mayor]

Is the Peaks on the VT's from me chasing the blocks and those area's needing
more data??

don't get too concerned with seeing peaks...you should have peaks, that's natural. 

it looks like the EGR table should be reduced on the front from 3,200 down up , and the rear EGR table should be increased from 1,200 to 3,600. 

edit: meant to say from 3,200 and up on the front

[Thumper Buttercup]

You want me to do it

[mayor]

is vtune-018 the one you are on now?  are did you generate a vtune-019?

[Thumper Buttercup]

We generated vtune -19 and took it to make Ready20 with all the stuff turned
back on to do the data run. We did not run vtune -19.

[Thumper Buttercup]

Here is the vtune-19 that was generated.

http://www.box.net/shared/j80jspdhvky6rnnqa4v2

[mayor]

vtune the attached -019 cal

[attachment removed after 60 days by system]

[Thumper Buttercup]

Thanks Mike,

   Anything special you did in the change for the EGR settings???

[mayor]

Anything special you did in the change for the EGR settings???

nothing special, just reduced some where the left side of the transition was greater by a large percentage and decreased where the right side of the transition was greater by a large percentage (trying to be less than 5% between right and left cells at the transition). 

[Thumper Buttercup]

We'll three more runs done today, data is in the box.net folder.

Mikes tune   vtune-019     vtunedata-019

Second Run  vtune-020  vtunedata-020

Third Run  vtune-021   vtunedata-021

made the vtune-022

but modified it for the data run renamed ready-22

DataRun was ScanData-005

First fill-up today mpg was 33.7, second fill-up on that last vtune-21  was 34.1

Bike is running good, hopefully when the riding settles down the mpg will go
up.


Here is our tables for the three runs.








http://www.box.net/shared/uly4i2thbgg7hvfd64tk

[mayor]

I'm trying to figure out why the milage isn't so good, and this could be a contributor....but it could also be real data     there's one area that I wouldn't mind getting a second opinion on from one of our pro's that has used o2 sniffers to verify vtuned results:

you're running a short cam and good heads so I would expect the ve's to be good in the early rpm's, but that seems a little too good. 

[Thumper Buttercup]

We filled up in town last night and ran home, 23+ miles at 72 mph,
then today the rest of that 118 miles was running hard doing the vtune.

We then filled up and did another vtune running hard and filling in data
that was vtune-021 run for 51.1 miles.  So most of this has been hard
running getting the data.

Maybe wfolarry put a turbo in them heads ..

Our TPS's are looking looser also. .

[Thumper Buttercup]

Mike, when I do the vtune and it asks if I want to auto-extend I do, is that
where some of the problem is coming in???

[mayor]

it depends.... could be, but the white cells indicate that the vtune software likes the values...which seems odd to me.   

[mayor]

you should be close enough now for us to move to timing and tweeking based on data recordings. 

your scan data-005 showed the adaptive knock retard in action (timing being pulled):


the green pillar at the bottom represents timing being pulled on the rear cylinder starting at recording 6889:

The knock retard can be triggered from timing being too far advanced or when the engine is operating in a lean condition.  The trigger is not necessarily exactly where the knock retard event happened, so we have to view a dozen or so frames before and after the event an pay attention to changes to see what the trigger may have been. We are going to treat this trigger as timing related, since the bike was operating in closed loop (14.6) for an extended amount of frames on either direction of the knock retard. 

here's the current rear timing table:

the red circle was the timing cells that we being read by the ecm to determine the desired timing at the time of trigger.  We're going to take an educated guess that timing values in the 80 kPa column was the the engine didn't much care for, since the data recording showed plenty of time in the lower 70 kPa ranges in those rpm's without triggers.  We're going to arbitrarily choose to reduce the timing by one degree from 2,500-4,000 in the 80 kPa range. 

as a foot note: what you are seeing in the timing tables is not absolute values on what you should see in data recordings.  The ecm not only uses all surrounding cells to determine what value to use, but there are also other tables that affect the actual value as well (like spark temperature correction). I tend not to adjust the spark correction tables in the warmer riding conditions unless there are very evident MAP related knock retard trends that appear in the data recordings.

I made the changed to ready-022 and saved it as ready -023.  Do a data recording of this cal. Once we have no timing being pulled, we will start strategically advancing to see if we can improve milage.

[attachment removed after 60 days by system]

[Thumper Buttercup]

I missed that one totally when I glanced at the file.  That was where we
went through a S curve and I was accelerating out of the end of it so there
was a bit more torque being generated by the bike.  I tried to vary up the
data and I guess I did it there.

[Thumper Buttercup]

We got out and did the data run, worked it pretty good, I don't see anywhere it pulled timing, and believe me I tried.  We rode into town and filled up, this was back to back running pretty hard in places data run, got 37.6 mpg.  When we finished this ride I told Kim she was going to have to pry me off this bike, it has never.....never run like this, I thought it was great before but it pulls so hard that it's scary.

Something I forgot to mention Mike but all of this tuning was performed two up the way we ride always.

So we shut down the computer and cranked MeatLoaf on the stereo and fully enjoyed the ride, this one was about 60 miles of 67 mph and 23 miles of 57 mph and we got 39.5 mpg.

The bike only has a small decel pop but only at high speed gearing it down hard, nothing I want to change, it was only hitting 4th gear coming off at 70 mph, like I said I don't want to adjust it out, only heard it twice today.

Here is the data file.

http://www.box.net/shared/ar15zu3zvux4o7geepd0

[mayor]

do a data recording on the attached calibration.  I added timing and increased afr in some areas. I also added some ve's to the 0% TPS columns, so let me know if the popping is better or worse on this one. 

[attachment removed after 60 days by system]