Mastertune vs. PowerVision

[nhrider]

OK...I've been waiting since May for the Mastertune to be available.   No announcement from TTS, and no response to my email asking for a shipping status.   I've communicated with two of their distributors and they aren't getting any information either, so I think its time to find an alternate tuner.

I want a flash tuner, not a piggyback unit, and I want autotune capability using the o2 sensors.   My first choice was the Mastertune.  The Dynojet PowerVision looks to have similar capabilities, but the literature is a bit vague about the details.  It does have the advantage of a built in monitor with data logging capabilities.   That probably beats a laptop in the saddlebag for convenience.   

I don't hear much on this forum about the PowerVision, but I'm sure some of you must be using it, and I've probably been swayed by the abundance of positive comments about the Mastertune on this forum and others.   This isn't my first tuner.  I've used a Powercommander and a S/E pro tuner in the past.   I did read that the S/E pro doesn't allow adjustment to the closed loop portion of the maps, so thats probably not a good choice.   I've had good luck with it in the past, but on a bike without o2 sensors.

I'd like to get some feedback on the PowerVision from the knowledgable people and other users on this forum.   I've got parts on order and need a good tuner.

[strokerjlk]

The vision would be a fine Choice.
Just wanted to say.... the tts isn't a auto tune device
And you can do the same thing in closed loop with a se pro tuner that you can a tts .
But if I were in your shoes,I would be looking at the vision as well

[Jamie Long]

Both products work very well, the best advice I can offer is to use the product you or your tuner feel most comfortable with and are able to get the best support for your requirements, it is also important to have a willingness to learn and an open mind when choosing a tuning product. Power Vision is available for all 2001-2012 EFI models including 2011-2012 CAN ECM's. The WinPV software and tables are very comprehensive, the PV Log Tuner software allows you to create new corrected tunes (both fuel & ignition timing) using your PV calibration and datalogs, and you can use either the factory O2 sensors or the optional Wideband Auto Tune module. If you choose to mount the Power Vision unit you can display or log data from your choice of channel and it has nearly unlimited data storage. You can store 6 custom tunes on the device and one unique feature is that you can simply plug in your PV and read out your calibration and start tuning. Updates are done thru the PV Update client and in August there will be some pretty big PV feature updates, the most significant is the ability to do all of your log tuning right with the PV device without a computer. To do a tune session here are the basics: On your PV put the bike in Tune mode, ride the bike to gather data (you can watch ECM data, O2 hits, or delta's live on a number of screen options), when you are finished with your tuning session you will then have the option to simply apply new corrections based on your logs directly to your calibration, all on the touch screen. We are not here to push product, rather we put it out there that if you feel Power Vision (or any other tuning component we carry) may be a product that will work for your needs you are welcome to contact us and we are here to help

[HV]

I have a 2013 RG on order ...working at a dealer I use the SESPT a lot ... BUT I'm seriously looking at a PowerVision unit due to the ability to monitor the Tuning in real time. ..

[Jamie Long]

Here are some screenshots of Fuel and Ignition timing corrections populated with the PV Log Tuner software. You can use either the factory O2 sensors with a closed loop calibration, you can use the optional Auto Tune using to whichever AFR targets you prefer, or you can use data from both sets of sensors. You can also choose the specific tables you would like to apply, as well as the ability to edit corrections partially (if you want to tune on a certain region) or zero them all together

VE table corrections



Spark corrections

[delta]

On your PV put the bike in Tune mode, ride the bike to gather data (you can watch ECM data, O2 hits, or delta's live on a number of screen options), when you are finished with your tuning session you will then have the option to simply apply new corrections based on your logs directly to your calibration, all on the touch screen.

Is this available now or in the August updates?

[Jamie Long]

On your PV put the bike in Tune mode, ride the bike to gather data (you can watch ECM data, O2 hits, or delta's live on a number of screen options), when you are finished with your tuning session you will then have the option to simply apply new corrections based on your logs directly to your calibration, all on the touch screen.

Is this available now or in the August updates?

The embedded "Auto Tune" feature will be available in a soon to be released PV firmware update and you will then have the option of generating updated tunes on the PV device, for now you have to simply load your logs/calibration into the PV Log Tuner software which will generate a new tune. Very easy stuff

[joe_lyons]

I have used and do like the vision.  But i do wish that their log tune process could be a bit smoother/more simple.  If they do this with the update then it will be a good contender.  Of the few that i tuned only one guy wanted his mounted to his handle bars which i think is the one thing that makes it different from the other tunners.

[Sporty 48]

I have a 2013 RG on order ...working at a dealer I use the SESPT a lot ... BUT I'm seriously looking at a PowerVision unit due to the ability to monitor the Tuning in real time. ..

Yes, the monitor and wideband option are pluses.
There is a huge following for Power Vision over on the xlforum, almost nothing for TTS which I still use. The motivated there have created a thorough manual, procedures and quick feedback. Not quite the experienced tuners found here but the good natured enthusiasm and support have me subscribed to multiple PV threads. Have followed the PV updates beta testing as well, good stuff.
Waiting for TTS's next version before I spend any money, will decide when I buy a second Sportster, December or January.

[SniperJoe]

Like you mu choices were limited for a 2012 Heritage ... I went with the Power Vision and am glad that I did. Everything worked right the first time!

Easy to use in Basic mode or as complex & detailed as you need in the pro mode...Another plus is that you can import Power Commander maps as well.

Like other units, when you flash yours for the first time it will be locked to your bike ... but ... you can still use it on a friends bike to monitor the data stream.

[08fxstc]

On your PV put the bike in Tune mode, ride the bike to gather data (you can watch ECM data, O2 hits, or delta's live on a number of screen options), when you are finished with your tuning session you will then have the option to simply apply new corrections based on your logs directly to your calibration, all on the touch screen.

Is this available now or in the August updates?

The embedded "Auto Tune" feature will be available in a soon to be released PV firmware update and you will then have the option of generating updated tunes on the PV device, for now you have to simply load your logs/calibration into the PV Log Tuner software which will generate a new tune. Very easy stuff

So you will not need the auto tune device and wide band sensors as an extra? Can all be done direct from the PV?

[remington007]

For now you need the software to change the map tables. If your bike has 02 sensors you dont need the auto tune. Ive had mastertune and now the powervision on my bike. What i like is i have a 09 and i can go back to lambda and KPA based VE tables instead of throttle % based tables.

[strokerjlk]

For now you need the software to change the map tables. If your bike has 02 sensors you dont need the auto tune. Ive had mastertune and now the powervision on my bike. What i like is i have a 09 and i can go back to lambda and KPA based VE tables instead of throttle % based tables.

if you don't use widebands and autotune,how are you going to measure open loop  12.5-14.2 afr?
nice that PC allows you to configure the ECM on a 09 either way. sepst does this as well. not sure i would run closed loop with the 18mm sensors on a Lambda based cal.
I have done it with sepst and it works perfect. open loop anyway.
I did ride one of the bikes for a few miles in closed loop,it ran ok nothing noticeable,but the owner is a open loop guy anyway.

[remington007]

[/quote]
if you don't use widebands and autotune,how are you going to measure open loop  12.5-14.2 afr?
nice that PC allows you to configure the ECM on a 09 either way. sepst does this as well. not sure i would run closed loop with the 18mm sensors on a Lambda based cal.
I have done it with sepst and it works perfect. open loop anyway.
I did ride one of the bikes for a few miles in closed loop,it ran ok nothing noticeable,but the owner is a open loop guy anyway.

I set the entire main lambda table at .982 took some timing out in the high KPA areas and did some records. (AS per dynojets instructions) I also checked my work with the auto tune, the results were very similar. I will say that checking the results on the dyno with the dyno sensors
ask for a richer value (to get a flat a/f line) than both recording results.
SEPST lets you view the main table in lambda or f/a. You dont get the option to use the KPA format in the VE tables
I pulled the stock tune from my ecm, The bike came with a lambda based cal from the factory.
Powervision lets you view and modify the OE calibration.

[strokerjlk]

You use a kpa 2010 sepst map and you have Afr or lambda  kpa maps. The ECM was designed to use either   

On the Vision
So since you have to use the NB sensors within there range, you need auto tune with broadbands or another outside source with broadbands to actually tune the open loop areas.

[remington007]

That is good to know that the super tunner allows you to put a 10 map in a 09.
My mastertune will not alow me to do that.
I tried the powervision because i needed a alternative tunning source. I cant get a mastertune, MOTHER HD cut us independents off from buying parts so i will not promote there product.
So far im happy with the powervision.

[Steve Cole]

Putting a 10 style calibration into a '09 or '08 bike and using closed loop is not a good thing to do. The O2 sensors are different and operate at different voltages so the system will not work correctly. That is the reason we do not allow it to happen.

[strokerjlk]

That is good to know that the super tunner allows you to put a 10 map in a 09.
My mastertune will not alow me to do that.
I tried the powervision because i needed a alternative tunning source. I cant get a mastertune, MOTHER HD cut us independents off from buying parts so i will not promote there product.
So far im happy with the powervision.

Power vision , seems to be a hit with everyone using them . Being able to tune kpa on a 09 is another plus 

[Steve Cole]

That is good to know that the super tunner allows you to put a 10 map in a 09.
My mastertune will not alow me to do that.
I tried the powervision because i needed a alternative tunning source. I cant get a mastertune, MOTHER HD cut us independents off from buying parts so i will not promote there product.
So far im happy with the powervision.

Power vision , seems to be a hit with everyone using them . Being able to tune kpa on a 09 is another plus 

Guess it doesn't matter to you if it works right or not then.  Just because you can put it in doesn't mean it works right.

[nhrider]

Well after much research, I've decided to go with the PowerVision.   Due mainly to availability.   I appreciate the fact that Steve did provide an update, but in my mind Beta testing could easily add 4-6 wks to availability, depending on sample sizes.

From everything I've been able to gather, the PV has very similar capabilities.   I have a 2010 Road King with O2 sensors, and I want to be able to use that feedback loop to log data and be able to make map changes based on the updated data.   The PV documentation appears to have some holes in it, but I think with support from Fuel Moto and DynoJet, I'll be able to work thru them.

TTS was my first choice, but I have parts on the shelf in the garage and more on order, and I'm just not willing to wait any longer.

I have Andrews 48H cams/gaskets/adjustable push rods, and a Fuel Moto Air Cleaner all waiting.   I'm waiting for a Fuel Moto 2-1-2 head pipe to be delivered (in a few weeks).   So It was time to make a choice, and I'm confident that the PV will get the job done,  and the display is a nice bonus feature.

I appreciate all the info and comments.   I'll let you know how it all works out.
-Dave

[remington007]

Steve, My bike came from the factory with a KPA based VE tables right? So ive taken THAT map and modified it. How can that be wrong?? If it wont work why does my bike run so well??

[LJfxst]

Well after much research, I've decided to go with the PowerVision.   Due mainly to availability.   I appreciate the fact that Steve did provide an update, but in my mind Beta testing could easily add 4-6 wks to availability, depending on sample sizes.

From everything I've been able to gather, the PV has very similar capabilities.   I have a 2010 Road King with O2 sensors, and I want to be able to use that feedback loop to log data and be able to make map changes based on the updated data.   The PV documentation appears to have some holes in it, but I think with support from Fuel Moto and DynoJet, I'll be able to work thru them.


TTS was my first choice, but I have parts on the shelf in the garage and more on order, and I'm just not willing to wait any longer.

I have Andrews 48H cams/gaskets/adjustable push rods, and a Fuel Moto Air Cleaner all waiting.   I'm waiting for a Fuel Moto 2-1-2 head pipe to be delivered (in a few weeks).   So It was time to make a choice, and I'm confident that the PV will get the job done,  and the display is a nice bonus feature.

I appreciate all the info and comments.   I'll let you know how it all works out.
-Dave

Im with you mate i have put it off for six months but had to make a choice so went with power vision to its hard when you w ant a product but you have all the parts for your build sitting there see how this power vision goes still might end up with tts later

[emece]

From everything I've been able to gather, the PV has very similar capabilities.

Does anybody know if the PV also supports the EGR table & cam selector function?

[oldguy]

You can adjust front and rear as well as global egr bias. It doesn't have a function where you idle the engine and set a value afterwards to match the intake opening, but if you are idling at too high of a kpa the bias can be adjusted down, then re-collect data and correct the ve's, and it works very well.

[Sam45]

From everything I've been able to gather, the PV has very similar capabilities.

Does anybody know if the PV also supports the EGR table & cam selector function?

The EGR table is right around the corner with the power vision.  If you wanted it bad enough you can get it in BETA. 

[Denfire621]

After trying the Power Commander V, Dobeck Gen. 4 (which was basically in beta testing when I tried it) and the Cobra Fi 2000 Powrpro, I bit the bullet and got the Powervision, myself. The bike actually runs pretty solid. I'm getting ready to put in Andrews 48H cams and can't wait to see how that goes. My first choice was actually the TTS Mastertune, but they didn't (still don't?) make a model for 2011 softails. Now that I have the Powervision, I'm glad I did! I'm getting a little more comfortable with the interface and slowly but surely starting to understand the whole thing a little better. Glad there are some other like-minded folks out there!

Den

[Onthefence]

The new PV tables look interesting. And probably create a bunch of questions.
What are the upper and lower limits of the Closed Loop Lambda Range ?
Map RPM Bias Global,Front,Rear ?

I wonder if the instructions will read something like this.

You are just making this too freaking hard.  There's no science to it.  Just poke a number in there and look for yourself what it does.  I am not going to explain how it really works, that's proprietary. Thanks for your $400.00.  Now put it back in the box, it's too advanced for you.

[oldguy]

The new PV tables look interesting. And probably create a bunch of questions.
What are the upper and lower limits of the Closed Loop Lambda Range ?
Map RPM Bias Global,Front,Rear ?

I wonder if the instructions will read something like this.

You are just making this too freaking hard.  There's no science to it.  Just poke a number in there and look for yourself what it does.  I am not going to explain how it really works, that's proprietary. Thanks for your $400.00.  Now put it back in the box, it's too advanced for you.

Don't know what the c/l limits are, I only tune open loop. The MAP rpm bias is a function of percentage change, so you can estimate how much your present idle kpa is relative to where you want it to be and act accordingly. I don't have any affiliation with PV,but it's the only one out there that you can watch what your motor is doing while riding, and make changes anytime you want while out on the road. Also can log/adjust for spark knock at the same time as doing air/fuel.

[Denfire621]

This is probably going to sound like a dumb question--please bear with me, I'm only just starting to understand what all is entailed with fuel injection, volumetric efficiency and the like. How do you tune open loop with the powervision? Isn't the PV set up basically for the purposes of tuning closed loop? Also, I asked the question of Jamie at Fuelmoto (it's Sunday, so he hasn't seen it yet) about simply using wide-band O2 sensors with the powervision. Couldn't you just adjust the stoichiometric to something a little richer? Am I asking ridiculous questions? ;-)

Den

[msocko3]

The new PV tables look interesting. And probably create a bunch of questions.
What are the upper and lower limits of the Closed Loop Lambda Range ?
Map RPM Bias Global,Front,Rear ?

I wonder if the instructions will read something like this.

You are just making this too freaking hard.  There's no science to it.  Just poke a number in there and look for yourself what it does.  I am not going to explain how it really works, that's proprietary. Thanks for your $400.00.  Now put it back in the box, it's too advanced for you.

Sure does sound familiar. FWIW If I was looking and tired of waiting I'd be giving the PV a try, it actually looks like they are jumping into the tuner race with a winning mind set.

[Onthefence]

Don't know what the c/l limits are, I only tune open loop. The MAP rpm bias is a function of percentage change, so you can estimate how much your present idle kpa is relative to where you want it to be and act accordingly. I don't have any affiliation with PV,but it's the only one out there that you can watch what your motor is doing while riding, and make changes anytime you want while out on the road. Also can log/adjust for spark knock at the same time as doing air/fuel.

I ask because I don't have a clue.  Why would I want to move the idle kpa? 

When reading their instructions on how to set the Global Bias, I am not sure I can unvravel what they are trying to say.  Run WOT from 0-100 MAP.  Then enter a number per cell that would when multiplied by actual map would equal 100?  SO at each RPM point, if I am 100% throttle,  I might see a 90% MAP, 101% 105% and am adjusting.

Oddly enough, If I look at my FuelMoto Map with the Beta Software, These tables have entries.  If I download a PV Map, these tables are 0.  Just wondering who supplied the values.  Did Log Tuner do this for me?  Or would this have been available to Fuel Moto ahead of me finding the Beta software.

[Onthefence]

Sure does sound familiar. FWIW If I was looking and tired of waiting I'd be giving the PV a try, it actually looks like they are jumping into the tuner race with a winning mind set.

I have both. I can only use the TTS for recording as it is married to my trade in.  They both have useful features.  I really like the TTS recording and calculators.  However, not screwing with a laptop to street tune is huge.  Probably not a big deal for a professional with a dyno.

[oldguy]

The c/l limits are realistically going to tied to the values your o2 sensor operates at, so something like 14.2 - 15 afr. The only reason you need to adjust the map bias is if you are having issues with too high (or too low) kpa at idle, usually a function of the characteristics of cam intake opening and closing. So if you have  stock cam and engine, you probably don't need to adjust it. It isn't quite like the functions on Mastertune, but serves it's purpose.
By the way, I'm just a "shade tree" tuner, not a pro, so if you need more info you'll need to talk to those with more knowledge.
HTH

[Steve Cole]

The c/l limits are realistically going to tied to the values your o2 sensor operates at, so something like 14.2 - 15 afr. The only reason you need to adjust the map bias is if you are having issues with too high (or too low) kpa at idle, usually a function of the characteristics of cam intake opening and closing. So if you have  stock cam and engine, you probably don't need to adjust it. It isn't quite like the functions on Mastertune, but serves it's purpose.
By the way, I'm just a "shade tree" tuner, not a pro, so if you need more info you'll need to talk to those with more knowledge.
HTH

While I have not seen what you guys are talking about let's just for a moment think about you trying to bias the MAP sensor. Why would this make any sense? Does anyone think that making the sensor output read different just to make it different solves anything? A Bias is nothing more than an offset applied to the reading. One thing I can tell you without a doubt there is NO such function in the ECM. There is however, a set of calibrations for the MAP sensor itself. The purpose of these tables is so that various suppliers of MAP sensors can be used. HD has used 3 different suppliers so far that I know of. The equipment needed to adjust the calibrations for the sensor are not going to be found in most shops, let along in a DIY home garage.

[Onthefence]

While I have not seen what you guys are talking about let's just for a moment think about you trying to bias the MAP sensor. Why would this make any sense? Does anyone think that making the sensor output read different just to make it different solves anything? A Bias is nothing more than an offset applied to the reading. One thing I can tell you without a doubt there is NO such function in the ECM. There is however, a set of calibrations for the MAP sensor itself. The purpose of these tables is so that various suppliers of MAP sensors can be used. HD has used 3 different suppliers so far that I know of. The equipment needed to adjust the calibrations for the sensor are not going to be found in most shops, let along in a DIY home garage.

The three tables are labled
Map Bias Front -  The description says EGR Effect front
Map Bias Global -
Map Bias Rear -   The description says EGR Effect rear

I saw a write up that led me to believe that at minimu the Front and Rear are mislabled and should be EGR Front/Rear. 

Just have to wait and see what the production lableing and instructions are.  For that matter they could all three disappear.

[oldguy]

I stand corrected.

[Jamie Long]

In the next several weeks there will be a pretty significant Power Vision firmware update, all of these new features and changes will be listed at that time on the FM website. The huge step forward is the full functionality of the Auto Tune Basic/Pro right on the touch screen display which allows you to make tune updates/corrections very easily. You will no longer need to export your logs and use the WinPV/Log Tuner software to populate tune corrections, no computer is needed! (although you can certainly continue to do so) With the new Auto Tune you have the ability to choose either the factory sensors or Dynojet AT/Wideband sensors and there are many other unique features as well. There will also be several new tables exposed in the tune items. Another new feature is called "Quick Tune" which allows you to adjust/tune most major tables and switches right from the PV display as well, this includes VE, Spark, Lambda/AF, Adaptive Control, and many others.

For those currently using Power Vision and are interested in trying these new features we do have a Beta version I would be more than happy to share. Just send an email to jamie@fuelmotousa.com

[Steve Cole]

While I have not seen what you guys are talking about let's just for a moment think about you trying to bias the MAP sensor. Why would this make any sense? Does anyone think that making the sensor output read different just to make it different solves anything? A Bias is nothing more than an offset applied to the reading. One thing I can tell you without a doubt there is NO such function in the ECM. There is however, a set of calibrations for the MAP sensor itself. The purpose of these tables is so that various suppliers of MAP sensors can be used. HD has used 3 different suppliers so far that I know of. The equipment needed to adjust the calibrations for the sensor are not going to be found in most shops, let along in a DIY home garage.

The three tables are labled
Map Bias Front -  The description says EGR Effect front
Map Bias Global -
Map Bias Rear -   The description says EGR Effect rear

I saw a write up that led me to believe that at minimu the Front and Rear are mislabled and should be EGR Front/Rear. 

Just have to wait and see what the production lableing and instructions are.  For that matter they could all three disappear.

Well if it's the EGR adjustments those have been in the TTS product for over a year now so that is very possible. There is NO Global EGR but one could fake that in the program and just make it add/subtract to both of the real tables if you wanted too.

[Jamie Long]

With the new Power Vision update there will be a handful of additional tables exposed in the calibrations and any earlier calibration can be updated very easily. Some of the more significant tables are what we are calling Charge Dilution Effect Front & Rear, a multiplier to normalize MAP based on RPM, and Spark correction by Head Temp and IAT Temp, there are also a handful of changes in the settings and switches. If using the Wideband Auto Tune module you now have the ability to display lambda as AFR, some of the logging strategies have been changed, and there are some new gauge themes. However by far the most awesome feature will be the new Auto Tune which as I noted earlier can be done completely right with the PV touch screen display. This is very, very cool stuff guys. Not only can you tune without a computer, you also have full control of the tune/learned parameters. Here is a list of the tune items you can configure when tuning with the PV display:
•   Min Hit Count (ticks) The minimum number of hits on a cell for learning to take place.
•   Min VE Learn (Percent) The minimum amount a VE cell needs to learn before a change will take place.
•   Max VE Learn (Percent) The maximum amount a VE cell is allowed to change, in VE units. Set this to 0 to disable VE learning.
•   Min Spark Learn (Degrees) The minimum amount a Spark cell needs to learn before a change will take place.
•   Max Spark Learn (Degrees) The maximum amount, in degrees, that a Spark cell is allowed to change. Set this to 0 to disable Spark learning. A good starting value would 10 degrees.
•   Min WB Lambda (Lambda) The richest value as measured on the Wideband in Pro Mode that is allowed. This is in Lambda.
•   Max WB Lambda (Lambda) The leanest value as measured on the Wideband in Pro Mode where learning is allowed. This is in Lambda.
•   Min Engine Temp (DegC) The coldest engine temperature where learning is allowed, entered in Degrees Celcius.
•   Max Engine Temp (DegC) The maximum engine temperature where learning is allowed, entered in Degrees Celcius.
•   Min RPM (rpm) The minimum engine speed where learning is allowed, in RPM.
•   Max RPM (rpm) The maximum engine speed where learning is allowed, in RPM.
•   Min MAP (KPA) The minimum MAP value where learning is allowed. This is used to filter out deceleration events.
•   Max MAP (KPA) The maximum MAP value where learning is allowed. This is usually marked as not used and set to something high, like 120 KPA.

As I noted earlier if anyone would like to try a Beta version of this update send an email to jamie@fuelmotousa.com and as always we offer 100% tuning and product support 

[Coyote]

I may have to buy another bike just so I can try it. 

[Ohio HD]

I may have to buy another bike just so I can try it. 

Can you set the ECM up to dual boot?    

[HV]

My 2013 RG wont be in for a few weeks... sure looks like im going to spring for the PV.....I need A tuner in any case...and Ill still be using the SESPTs at work.... I sure do like the real time display feature....amoung other things

[HV]

Any one have a list of Base maps available ? 

[Coyote]

My 2013 RG wont be in for a few weeks... sure looks like im going to spring for the PV.....I need A tuner in any case...and Ill still be using the SESPTs at work.... I sure do like the real time display feature....amoung other things

Yeah, me too. And I really like Jamie's flexibility.   

I'd love to try it on my 11 RG even though I like the way my TTS tune is running now. Would be interesting to throw some wide bands in and see what I could do.

[msocko3]

I have both. I can only use the TTS for recording as it is married to my trade in. 

The TTS goes with my trade in, kind of a mean thing to do to someone not including the tuner it was tuned with especially if the ECM is locked.

[Onthefence]

I have both. I can only use the TTS for recording as it is married to my trade in. 

The TTS goes with my trade in, kind of a mean thing to do to someone not including the tuner it was tuned with especially if the ECM is locked.

That bike only had slipons and A/C.  I put the stock parts back on and reflashed with the back up mte.  Doesn't that put the ecm back to factory and leave it in a state that other tuners can marry to it?  I understood that it did, and that I ended up with a device that could be upgraded, or used as is for recording if I wanted.

[Steve Cole]

If you returned the bike to stock then the ECM is just how it was before you did anything to it. Anyone can do anything they like with it.

[FSG]

I understood that it did, ......... 

correct

......  and that I ended up with a device that could be upgraded, ....

EDIT: incorrect  correct , I'd overlooked the upgrade to a 2 bike TTS, which would result in a TTS that could be married to a new bike.   

..... or used as is for recording if I wanted.

correct

I would have let it go with the bike.

[Coyote]

I traded my 2010 RG and kept the TTS dongle. Then I sent it in and had it upgraded to a two bike unit and used it on my 2011. Less money for me that way.

Not sure at the time I had become aware of the TTS locking the ECM deal. 

[JohnC]

I love my FuelMoto headpipe and I know that with my next bike, I'll be going with the PV tuner instead of the TTS I'm currently using.  Although the TTS is not complicated, it seems to me that the new PV tuner will do the same thing and in a much simpler package not requiring an external PC. 

But to me, customer service after the sale goes a long way and I don't think you can get better support for their products than from Jamie at FuelMoto.

[Jamie Long]

I love my FuelMoto headpipe and I know that with my next bike, I'll be going with the PV tuner instead of the TTS I'm currently using.  Although the TTS is not complicated, it seems to me that the new PV tuner will do the same thing and in a much simpler package not requiring an external PC. 

But to me, customer service after the sale goes a long way and I don't think you can get better support for their products than from Jamie at FuelMoto.

Thank you for the kind words. If you do your research and feel Power Vision is a product you would like to try on your next bike, awesome! we are here to offer unlimited tuning and product support on all levels. The latest Power Vision updates discussed bring a whole new level of tuning to the table and should be a real game changer for both novice and veteran users alike. It is really that good, and there are many advancements, new features, and updates coming down the pipeline that are already being tested in the field. Dynojet is completely focused on bringing forth the most innovative features and concepts and we are absolutely proud to be a part of their "Vision" from the very beginning into the future.   

[Durwood]

Jamie,with the auto tune feaure can the operator select the desired afr?

[Jamie Long]

Jamie,with the auto tune feaure can the operator select the desired afr?

Absolutely, if you are using Auto Tune Pro with the Wideband Auto Tune module you can set the Lambda/AFR targets to your preference, if you are using the Auto Tune Basic you can only tune within the limitations of the factory O2 sensors and normal closed loop range 

[Durwood]

Jamie,with the auto tune feaure can the operator select the desired afr?

Absolutely, if you are using Auto Tune Pro with the Wideband Auto Tune module you can set the Lambda/AFR targets to your preference.

That's cool Jamie,Thanks for your reply.

[HogBag]

I'm looking forward to Steve releasing the new TTS Mastertune to the public. I'm sure it will be worth the wait as the ten year old SERT is still holding its own with the latest tuners.

[emece]

Jamie, will the PV support the TTS' cam selector feature (or something similar) in any future update?

And one more, copying all tables from a TTS map (including the EGR ones) to a PV gives a working map? Or in other way, do the numbers in the tables have the same meaning between the PV and the TTS? I'm not worried about "straight" numbers as VE or advance, but about the more obscure EGR, baro correction and the like.

Thanks.

[Jamie Long]

Jamie, will the PV support the TTS' cam selector feature (or something similar) in any future update?

And one more, copying all tables from a TTS map (including the EGR ones) to a PV gives a working map? Or in other way, do the numbers in the tables have the same meaning between the PV and the TTS? I'm not worried about "straight" numbers as VE or advance, but about the more obscure EGR, baro correction and the like.

Thanks.

All of the strategies and features are native to the Delphi ECM not the tuning product itself, it is up to the manufacturer of each product to determine what they would like to expose and how it is used. While I cannot disclose specific info on the open forum, there will be some significant PV features that will be introduced later this season that will be another industry first. We are first concentrating on getting the current update ready for production release here shortly.

As for copying and pasting tables, that is never a good idea regardless of which product you are using. There are far too many variables both exposed and in the background that will significantly affect the tune. As always I recommend using the product you feel most comfortable working with and have the best resources available.

[Sporty 48]

This is probably going to sound like a dumb question--please bear with me, I'm only just starting to understand what all is entailed with fuel injection, volumetric efficiency and the like. How do you tune open loop with the powervision? Isn't the PV set up basically for the purposes of tuning closed loop? Also, I asked the question of Jamie at Fuelmoto (it's Sunday, so he hasn't seen it yet) about simply using wide-band O2 sensors with the powervision. Couldn't you just adjust the stoichiometric to something a little richer? Am I asking ridiculous questions? ;-)

Den

Den,
Just saw your question, do not know if it was answered.
Tuning, like building, like learning, is done in stages or steps.
Suggest you start off in Closed Loop, get your VE's and Timing settled.
Then if you want to go Open Loop it is VE's, AFR's and Timing.
Your PV vender, if Jamie Long, is a full service outfit, they will help with base tunes for your setup.

[Denfire621]

Thanks, sporty. I actually have a pretty decently running bike. I got the PV with a good map from Jamie. Then, I did some data collection runs. "Blondie" is running pretty nicely. I was just thinking you could adjust the stoich with straight wb O2 sensors. If it's not something not available, I'm still happy with the pv & the help I've gotten from Jamie! Shoulda got it in the first place!

Den

[burgies08ultra]

this pv sounds pretty cool..
wonder if he has any maps for triglides???
seems no one tunes for us...
thanks
burgie

[Jamie Long]

this pv sounds pretty cool..
wonder if he has any maps for triglides???
seems no one tunes for us...
thanks
burgie

Yes we have a handful of maps we developed specifically for Tri Glides, quite a few guys running PV on their trikes on the "other" forum with some good threads and feedback 

[Zigzag930]

Would love to see some updated information on comparing the PV2 and MT2 as I'm about ready to purchase.....

[rigidthumper]

Kind of like saying which of your twin children is your favorite? If you're gonna tune it yourself, factor in the price of units/cables/time/learning curve. If having it done, talk to your tuner.

[Teardrop]

I have used and do like the vision.  But i do wish that their log tune process could be a bit smoother/more simple.  If they do this with the update then it will be a good contender.  Of the few that i tuned only one guy wanted his mounted to his handle bars which i think is the one thing that makes it different from the other tunners.

Oops. Never mind this is an old post. 

[HD/Wrench]

Kind of like saying which of your twin children is your favorite? If you're gonna tune it yourself, factor in the price of units/cables/time/learning curve. If having it done, talk to your tuner.

Learning curve is the biggest thing I feel most really do not grasp.

[Durwood]

Kind of like saying which of your twin children is your favorite? If you're gonna tune it yourself, factor in the price of units/cables/time/learning curve. If having it done, talk to your tuner.

Learning curve is the biggest thing I feel most really do not grasp.

Agreed.