Mastertune vs. PowerVision

[nhrider]

OK...I've been waiting since May for the Mastertune to be available.   No announcement from TTS, and no response to my email asking for a shipping status.   I've communicated with two of their distributors and they aren't getting any information either, so I think its time to find an alternate tuner.

I want a flash tuner, not a piggyback unit, and I want autotune capability using the o2 sensors.   My first choice was the Mastertune.  The Dynojet PowerVision looks to have similar capabilities, but the literature is a bit vague about the details.  It does have the advantage of a built in monitor with data logging capabilities.   That probably beats a laptop in the saddlebag for convenience.   

I don't hear much on this forum about the PowerVision, but I'm sure some of you must be using it, and I've probably been swayed by the abundance of positive comments about the Mastertune on this forum and others.   This isn't my first tuner.  I've used a Powercommander and a S/E pro tuner in the past.   I did read that the S/E pro doesn't allow adjustment to the closed loop portion of the maps, so thats probably not a good choice.   I've had good luck with it in the past, but on a bike without o2 sensors.

I'd like to get some feedback on the PowerVision from the knowledgable people and other users on this forum.   I've got parts on order and need a good tuner.

[strokerjlk]

The vision would be a fine Choice.
Just wanted to say.... the tts isn't a auto tune device
And you can do the same thing in closed loop with a se pro tuner that you can a tts .
But if I were in your shoes,I would be looking at the vision as well

[Jamie Long]

Both products work very well, the best advice I can offer is to use the product you or your tuner feel most comfortable with and are able to get the best support for your requirements, it is also important to have a willingness to learn and an open mind when choosing a tuning product. Power Vision is available for all 2001-2012 EFI models including 2011-2012 CAN ECM's. The WinPV software and tables are very comprehensive, the PV Log Tuner software allows you to create new corrected tunes (both fuel & ignition timing) using your PV calibration and datalogs, and you can use either the factory O2 sensors or the optional Wideband Auto Tune module. If you choose to mount the Power Vision unit you can display or log data from your choice of channel and it has nearly unlimited data storage. You can store 6 custom tunes on the device and one unique feature is that you can simply plug in your PV and read out your calibration and start tuning. Updates are done thru the PV Update client and in August there will be some pretty big PV feature updates, the most significant is the ability to do all of your log tuning right with the PV device without a computer. To do a tune session here are the basics: On your PV put the bike in Tune mode, ride the bike to gather data (you can watch ECM data, O2 hits, or delta's live on a number of screen options), when you are finished with your tuning session you will then have the option to simply apply new corrections based on your logs directly to your calibration, all on the touch screen. We are not here to push product, rather we put it out there that if you feel Power Vision (or any other tuning component we carry) may be a product that will work for your needs you are welcome to contact us and we are here to help

[HV]

I have a 2013 RG on order ...working at a dealer I use the SESPT a lot ... BUT I'm seriously looking at a PowerVision unit due to the ability to monitor the Tuning in real time. ..

[Jamie Long]

Here are some screenshots of Fuel and Ignition timing corrections populated with the PV Log Tuner software. You can use either the factory O2 sensors with a closed loop calibration, you can use the optional Auto Tune using to whichever AFR targets you prefer, or you can use data from both sets of sensors. You can also choose the specific tables you would like to apply, as well as the ability to edit corrections partially (if you want to tune on a certain region) or zero them all together

VE table corrections



Spark corrections

[delta]

On your PV put the bike in Tune mode, ride the bike to gather data (you can watch ECM data, O2 hits, or delta's live on a number of screen options), when you are finished with your tuning session you will then have the option to simply apply new corrections based on your logs directly to your calibration, all on the touch screen.

Is this available now or in the August updates?

[Jamie Long]

On your PV put the bike in Tune mode, ride the bike to gather data (you can watch ECM data, O2 hits, or delta's live on a number of screen options), when you are finished with your tuning session you will then have the option to simply apply new corrections based on your logs directly to your calibration, all on the touch screen.

Is this available now or in the August updates?

The embedded "Auto Tune" feature will be available in a soon to be released PV firmware update and you will then have the option of generating updated tunes on the PV device, for now you have to simply load your logs/calibration into the PV Log Tuner software which will generate a new tune. Very easy stuff

[joe_lyons]

I have used and do like the vision.  But i do wish that their log tune process could be a bit smoother/more simple.  If they do this with the update then it will be a good contender.  Of the few that i tuned only one guy wanted his mounted to his handle bars which i think is the one thing that makes it different from the other tunners.

[Sporty 48]

I have a 2013 RG on order ...working at a dealer I use the SESPT a lot ... BUT I'm seriously looking at a PowerVision unit due to the ability to monitor the Tuning in real time. ..

Yes, the monitor and wideband option are pluses.
There is a huge following for Power Vision over on the xlforum, almost nothing for TTS which I still use. The motivated there have created a thorough manual, procedures and quick feedback. Not quite the experienced tuners found here but the good natured enthusiasm and support have me subscribed to multiple PV threads. Have followed the PV updates beta testing as well, good stuff.
Waiting for TTS's next version before I spend any money, will decide when I buy a second Sportster, December or January.

[SniperJoe]

Like you mu choices were limited for a 2012 Heritage ... I went with the Power Vision and am glad that I did. Everything worked right the first time!

Easy to use in Basic mode or as complex & detailed as you need in the pro mode...Another plus is that you can import Power Commander maps as well.

Like other units, when you flash yours for the first time it will be locked to your bike ... but ... you can still use it on a friends bike to monitor the data stream.

[08fxstc]

On your PV put the bike in Tune mode, ride the bike to gather data (you can watch ECM data, O2 hits, or delta's live on a number of screen options), when you are finished with your tuning session you will then have the option to simply apply new corrections based on your logs directly to your calibration, all on the touch screen.

Is this available now or in the August updates?

The embedded "Auto Tune" feature will be available in a soon to be released PV firmware update and you will then have the option of generating updated tunes on the PV device, for now you have to simply load your logs/calibration into the PV Log Tuner software which will generate a new tune. Very easy stuff

So you will not need the auto tune device and wide band sensors as an extra? Can all be done direct from the PV?

[remington007]

For now you need the software to change the map tables. If your bike has 02 sensors you dont need the auto tune. Ive had mastertune and now the powervision on my bike. What i like is i have a 09 and i can go back to lambda and KPA based VE tables instead of throttle % based tables.

[strokerjlk]

For now you need the software to change the map tables. If your bike has 02 sensors you dont need the auto tune. Ive had mastertune and now the powervision on my bike. What i like is i have a 09 and i can go back to lambda and KPA based VE tables instead of throttle % based tables.

if you don't use widebands and autotune,how are you going to measure open loop  12.5-14.2 afr?
nice that PC allows you to configure the ECM on a 09 either way. sepst does this as well. not sure i would run closed loop with the 18mm sensors on a Lambda based cal.
I have done it with sepst and it works perfect. open loop anyway.
I did ride one of the bikes for a few miles in closed loop,it ran ok nothing noticeable,but the owner is a open loop guy anyway.

[remington007]

[/quote]
if you don't use widebands and autotune,how are you going to measure open loop  12.5-14.2 afr?
nice that PC allows you to configure the ECM on a 09 either way. sepst does this as well. not sure i would run closed loop with the 18mm sensors on a Lambda based cal.
I have done it with sepst and it works perfect. open loop anyway.
I did ride one of the bikes for a few miles in closed loop,it ran ok nothing noticeable,but the owner is a open loop guy anyway.

I set the entire main lambda table at .982 took some timing out in the high KPA areas and did some records. (AS per dynojets instructions) I also checked my work with the auto tune, the results were very similar. I will say that checking the results on the dyno with the dyno sensors
ask for a richer value (to get a flat a/f line) than both recording results.
SEPST lets you view the main table in lambda or f/a. You dont get the option to use the KPA format in the VE tables
I pulled the stock tune from my ecm, The bike came with a lambda based cal from the factory.
Powervision lets you view and modify the OE calibration.

[strokerjlk]

You use a kpa 2010 sepst map and you have Afr or lambda  kpa maps. The ECM was designed to use either   

On the Vision
So since you have to use the NB sensors within there range, you need auto tune with broadbands or another outside source with broadbands to actually tune the open loop areas.

[remington007]

That is good to know that the super tunner allows you to put a 10 map in a 09.
My mastertune will not alow me to do that.
I tried the powervision because i needed a alternative tunning source. I cant get a mastertune, MOTHER HD cut us independents off from buying parts so i will not promote there product.
So far im happy with the powervision.

[Steve Cole]

Putting a 10 style calibration into a '09 or '08 bike and using closed loop is not a good thing to do. The O2 sensors are different and operate at different voltages so the system will not work correctly. That is the reason we do not allow it to happen.

[strokerjlk]

That is good to know that the super tunner allows you to put a 10 map in a 09.
My mastertune will not alow me to do that.
I tried the powervision because i needed a alternative tunning source. I cant get a mastertune, MOTHER HD cut us independents off from buying parts so i will not promote there product.
So far im happy with the powervision.

Power vision , seems to be a hit with everyone using them . Being able to tune kpa on a 09 is another plus 

[Steve Cole]

That is good to know that the super tunner allows you to put a 10 map in a 09.
My mastertune will not alow me to do that.
I tried the powervision because i needed a alternative tunning source. I cant get a mastertune, MOTHER HD cut us independents off from buying parts so i will not promote there product.
So far im happy with the powervision.

Power vision , seems to be a hit with everyone using them . Being able to tune kpa on a 09 is another plus 

Guess it doesn't matter to you if it works right or not then.  Just because you can put it in doesn't mean it works right.

[nhrider]

Well after much research, I've decided to go with the PowerVision.   Due mainly to availability.   I appreciate the fact that Steve did provide an update, but in my mind Beta testing could easily add 4-6 wks to availability, depending on sample sizes.

From everything I've been able to gather, the PV has very similar capabilities.   I have a 2010 Road King with O2 sensors, and I want to be able to use that feedback loop to log data and be able to make map changes based on the updated data.   The PV documentation appears to have some holes in it, but I think with support from Fuel Moto and DynoJet, I'll be able to work thru them.

TTS was my first choice, but I have parts on the shelf in the garage and more on order, and I'm just not willing to wait any longer.

I have Andrews 48H cams/gaskets/adjustable push rods, and a Fuel Moto Air Cleaner all waiting.   I'm waiting for a Fuel Moto 2-1-2 head pipe to be delivered (in a few weeks).   So It was time to make a choice, and I'm confident that the PV will get the job done,  and the display is a nice bonus feature.

I appreciate all the info and comments.   I'll let you know how it all works out.
-Dave

[remington007]

Steve, My bike came from the factory with a KPA based VE tables right? So ive taken THAT map and modified it. How can that be wrong?? If it wont work why does my bike run so well??

[LJfxst]

Well after much research, I've decided to go with the PowerVision.   Due mainly to availability.   I appreciate the fact that Steve did provide an update, but in my mind Beta testing could easily add 4-6 wks to availability, depending on sample sizes.

From everything I've been able to gather, the PV has very similar capabilities.   I have a 2010 Road King with O2 sensors, and I want to be able to use that feedback loop to log data and be able to make map changes based on the updated data.   The PV documentation appears to have some holes in it, but I think with support from Fuel Moto and DynoJet, I'll be able to work thru them.


TTS was my first choice, but I have parts on the shelf in the garage and more on order, and I'm just not willing to wait any longer.

I have Andrews 48H cams/gaskets/adjustable push rods, and a Fuel Moto Air Cleaner all waiting.   I'm waiting for a Fuel Moto 2-1-2 head pipe to be delivered (in a few weeks).   So It was time to make a choice, and I'm confident that the PV will get the job done,  and the display is a nice bonus feature.

I appreciate all the info and comments.   I'll let you know how it all works out.
-Dave

Im with you mate i have put it off for six months but had to make a choice so went with power vision to its hard when you w ant a product but you have all the parts for your build sitting there see how this power vision goes still might end up with tts later

[emece]

From everything I've been able to gather, the PV has very similar capabilities.

Does anybody know if the PV also supports the EGR table & cam selector function?

[oldguy]

You can adjust front and rear as well as global egr bias. It doesn't have a function where you idle the engine and set a value afterwards to match the intake opening, but if you are idling at too high of a kpa the bias can be adjusted down, then re-collect data and correct the ve's, and it works very well.

[Sam45]

From everything I've been able to gather, the PV has very similar capabilities.

Does anybody know if the PV also supports the EGR table & cam selector function?

The EGR table is right around the corner with the power vision.  If you wanted it bad enough you can get it in BETA.