Air Fuel Ratio Meter

[able2222]

I have a carbed '05 Deluxe that I want to put a wide range air/fuel gauge on...anyone out there have any recommendations? I'm looking at RSR and Innovative LC-1 but I'm open to others that might be better. Thanks in advance for your response.

[ViennaHog]

I used the RB Racing model on my 107 FXST, very reliable and no issues whatsoever. Checked it during Dyno runs and it came out very accurate. 
Built a custom bracket that went with my 100 years handlebar clamp.

[ederdelyi]

>>I'm looking at RSR and Innovative LC-1<<

Two different animals with different capabilities. One uses a narrow band sensor and the other uses a wide band sensor. The LC-1 is (arguably) capable of more than the RSR, but is not designed as a permanent mount gauge for a MC ... unless they have changed things since the last time I looked. The RSR is a "no brainer" compared to the LC-1 as far as ease of use/installation, IMO. Longevity of the sensor is another factor, wideband sensors are more fragile and expensive than narrow band.

What's your goal? Monitor realtime cruise AFR or jetting your carb for best power/economy?

[able2222]

Thanks for the input. What I'm most interested in is getting my carb dialed in with the correct (or nearly so) air/fuel mix for street riding - nothing fancy, just good preformance and milage on a stage one engine. I'm assuming that the RB Racing RSR Air/Fuel Ratio Kit (with 4 wire O-Sensor) is a wide band sensor. I also assumed (I know what assuming will get you) that a wide band sensor would be easier to read on a gauge than a narrow band, less osillation...am I wrong on this?  Thanks again

[ederdelyi]

The RSR 4 wire sensor is still a narrow band sensor. It just has a heating element incorporated in it to get up to temperature quicker. IMO, for what you want to do the RSR is "adequate" and easier to deal with. It's well damped and the "on/off" nature of the narrow band sensor is not readily apparent to the user.

Roll the dice ... just kidding! Consider price, ease of mounting, and so on as opposed to a good dyno tune ... just saying.

[PanHeadRed]

able, I personally use the RSR and like it.

Regardless of which brand, model, narrow or wide, I recommend a gauge to EVERYONE who has a carb and intends to tune it them self. It's a real eye opener for a lot of them that think they got er tooned. 

[fuzznut5197]

I wanted data logging so I got a WEGOIII. I figured that there are some thing I want to check that will require me to look at the road and not stare at the gauge. (like looking for cops  ). Sampling rate is important.

[AllanW]

What PanHeadRed said 

[Sonny S.]

I wanted data logging so I got a WEGOIII. I figured that there are some thing I want to check that will require me to look at the road and not stare at the gauge. (like looking for cops  ). Sampling rate is important.

WEGO III   

[xzo124]

I also use the Wego III ,  top notch...xzo

[hotstick79]

What does it cost to get set up with one of these AFR monitors?

[hdpegscraper]

Ever look at one of these from Edelbrock?
http://store.summitracing.com/egnsearch.asp?Ntt=EDL-6593&searchinresults=true&Ntk=KeywordSearch&DDS=1&N=700+400065+302787+115&x=31&y=9

[xzo124]

I think I paid $350.00 or so for my Wego III....xzo

[mayor]

I just paid $360 shipped for a WEGO III off of Ebay. I don't think the WEGO is going to be the right meter for permanent mounting, if that's what the original poster had in mind. 

[Sonny S.]

I just paid $360 shipped for a WEGO III off of Ebay. I don't think the WEGO is going to be the right meter for permanent mounting, if that's what the original poster had in mind. 

Mayor is correct, but I would think twice about mounting one on the bike. Once the tuning is done, IMHO it is TMI for an everyday street bike.

[ederdelyi]

>>Mayor is correct, but I would think twice about mounting one on the bike. Once the tuning is done, IMHO it is TMI for an everyday street bike.<<

My thinking as well. The other units being mentioned here are fine, some "better" than others but most are overkill for a one time shot at dialing in a carb bike, IMO.

All depends on what one wants, in this case I'd opt for the minimum that would accomplish the task with the least amount of effort. If it will be a permanent mount, then the RSR or something along that line makes sense for several reasons ... JMHO.

[harleywood]

Ever look at one of these from Edelbrock?
http://store.summitracing.com/egnsearch.asp?Ntt=EDL-6593&searchinresults=true&Ntk=KeywordSearch&DDS=1&N=700+400065+302787+115&x=31&y=9

This one should be adequate, as well. Frankly, many of these other units, although very good units, don't do anything different than this Edelbrock unit. They're just charging extra for the motorcycle application.

[Dave*M]

Look at the sds mixture meter. It is around $200.00 and is very accurate.That is what I use on my bike and has worked for many years with no problems.

[Sonny S.]

Ever look at one of these from Edelbrock?
http://store.summitracing.com/egnsearch.asp?Ntt=EDL-6593&searchinresults=true&Ntk=KeywordSearch&DDS=1&N=700+400065+302787+115&x=31&y=9

This one should be adequate, as well. Frankly, many of these other units, although very good units, don't do anything different than this Edelbrock unit. They're just charging extra for the motorcycle application.

You may not know this but they are not all created equal, as the WEGO III uses a wideband sensor, it gives specific #'s and not just a colored light in the .5 range, and it is a data logger.
It doesn't cost more because of motorcycle applications because it is primarily designed for automotive use and racing.
Us motorcycle guy's just happen to realize the benifits of using one.

I chose the WEGO III because I own 2 carbed bike, and I do side work. This allows me to get multiple uses out of it instead of fixing an AFR meter to 1 bike. MY $300 gets spread over many bikes.....brings the cost down, and makes it a valuable " tool " .

[mayor]

I chose the WEGO III because I own 2 carbed bike, and I do side work. This allows me to get multiple uses out of it instead of fixing an AFR meter to 1 bike. MY $300 gets spread over many bikes.....brings the cost down, and makes it a valuable " tool " .

that's funny, I choose the WEGO III because some nut named Sonny recommended it over on the old site.  Actually, I choose it for the same reasons- multiple carb bikes, and set it and forget it.  I don't want to know my AFR all the time for the same reason I don't run an oil temp gauge.  I'm a firm believer in what I don't know, is less I need to worry about.   

[ederdelyi]

1. Carb'd bike
2. One time use
3. Adjustability of a carb and skill/knowledge level of user concerning same
4. If permanent mount, then a narrow band sensor is more robust and less expensive to replace when it fails.
5.Mounting and "real estate" required. How handy is the user and what facilities does he have at his disposal

Sometimes you need to crawl out of that "soft armor" that encases you and try to look at it from a perspective that does not include just your own needs and capabilities.

It's questionable that most out there would be able to achieve a "flat line" AFR with a carb given what they have to adjust them with. Most will not be capable of anything more than changing jets or needles. Having an instrument that will measure 0.1 or better varaiances in AFR doesn't mean much if the ability to adjust to that variance does not exist.

Yep, I'm FOS ... So, what? :>)

EDIT: Not directed at any one individual or post, merely a comment on the direction the thread appears to be heading.

[Sonny S.]

yup, depends on what you want. I guess being as I bought mine to be used as a tuning tool for multiple bikes, that made my decision go the way it did.

Ed, you know this but with an assortment of needles to try, the AFR can be steered in many directions. Of course not everyone has the tools or selection or parts to find this out. Also, if you throw in the ability to adjust the accelerator pump, and see actual results that gives you another advantage.
I found that an N65C has a very lean transition in to the main, and can actually cause a roll on ping. Where as the NOKK needle gives better MPG, and richens up going in to the main. Many just go with the N65C and then can't figure out why the bike pings. So then someone says...oh, you need a programmable ignition so you can remove timing. Yes, even though the ignition may be needed, you still need to make sure AFR is correct before you just randomly pull timing to eliminate a ping.

You're a smart guy ED, you know how it goes.

[ederdelyi]

>>You're a smart guy ED, you know how it goes.<<

A highly debatable and often contested opinion :>) I've been known to call myself a dumb $hit on more than one occasion.

Yep, most will not get to that level or even know what the options are. Drilling jets, emulsion tubes, air bleeds and so on are not in the average persons bag of tricks. EFI/electronic ignition and the tuning tools that are becoming available have opened up a realm that many never had access to in the days of carbs and distributors. Downside for some will be that they do have access to many things they may not fully undesrstand :>) 

[PanHeadRed]

>Having an instrument that will measure 0.1 or better varaiances in AFR doesn't mean much if the ability to adjust to that variance does not exist.<

I am sure the WEGO unit from DTT is a nice instrument for sure, but I have to agree with that. Wile the data logging feature seems nice I am not sure it would be a benefit for me, personally I don't care what the bike "did" I am concerned with what it is doing "now". I will admit to being in the dark about this particular unit, but I am not sure what the collected data would mean to me with out TP, and I am not sure what TP would mean with out RPM, and I am not sure what RPM would mean with out MPH, and I am not sure what MPH would mean with out TP.

I like the unit mounted for a few personal reasons:

1st. it's cool  great conversation starter.

2nd. I change components periodically and not having to remount the gage is handy (even though it's 1 screw, and 3 QD plugs).

3rd. I find it very educational to see how AFR's are affected by TP and how TP can change the AFR and maintain speed while riding.

4th. I'm a tard and entertain easily, flashing lights, big tits, you know, stuff like that.

NOW I have a question for you multi bike WEGO guys.

How many of you use the tail pipe sniffer? And for those of you who do, do you think the ability to tune within .1 is affected by the unit being in place? Does it affect the exhausting by .1?

If you don't use the TP sniffer what is different about taking the WEGO on and off vs the other instruments available?

If you do hook up the Tach, and MAP feature, is it even more complicated the a regular non data collecting unit?

[Evo160K]

Able2222,

Check the plan on this website:  http://www.dbbp.com/    >click to enter>tech tips>Air/Fuel gauge.

A bud used this plan to built a dual gauge for me to monitor both cylinders real time, simultaneously.  I'll try to attach a pic.  The parts cost less than $50 plus the 02 sensors and connectors.  I bought the parts from a local industrial electronics distributor.  I adjust each cylinder independently, my bike has an individual runner intake manifold.  With a normal "Y" intake manifold, you could just as easily toggle between the front and rear 02 sensors.  It's kinda neat to see what's happening at any moment.  The smallest twist of the throttle shows up instantly, start up an incline and the a/f ratio changes.  The only way to get a steady a/f reading to adjust from is on level ground holding steady throttle.  I get close with jets and plug chops, then I fine tune the a/f ratio with the a/f adjustment screws at cruising speed.  The closer I match the two cylinders, the smoother and stronger the bike runs.  I can adjust real time for power or economy.  With a carb it doesn't make much sense to adjust for an rpm you don't use very much, it's not like closed loop efi.  Another point to consider is you're really only concerned with being in the a/f sweet spot, other than you don't want to be too lean for a long sustained run.


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