HR 45

[Phu Cat]

Subject: HR 45

Are you ready for the House Bill titled 'HR 45, Blair Holt Licensing and Record Act of 2009'. It will make it illegal to own a firearm unless it is registered with the database in Washington D.C. As a gun owner you will have to be finger printed, you will be required to provide your DL#, SS#, you must maintain a valid address at all times, submit to mental and physical health records being put on file, you will also be required to file any address changes and you any ownership changes even if private sale. Each update will cost $25 and if you fail to comply you will lose your right to own firearms. This bill and its language mirror almost completely one defeated last year in the House of Representatives by soon to be Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel.

Ordinarily, I wouldn't worry too much about something like this.  But not with this group we have in congress NOW! 

[Faast Ed]

Touchy subject.

A whole lot of people out there have guns that really shouldn't. 
Yet there are many others that have their right to own involved.

Way touchy subject! LOL

[tireater]

Gun control is a concept for honest citizens...Criminals don't follow laws...Taking guns from honest citizens does nothing but fuel more crime...

[seattledyna]

well said

[Jeffd]

Touchy subject.

A whole lot of people out there have guns that really shouldn't. 
Yet there are many others that have their right to own involved.

Way touchy subject! LOL

and those ones that should not have guns will have guns no matter what laws they pass.  I support someones right not to own a gun if they don't want too they should respect my right to own a gun(s) un encumbered by the government.

[Faast Ed]

and those ones that should not have guns will have guns no matter what laws they pass.

I keep hearing that,......

What's the answer to keep the wrong folks from having guns?  Not fair for so many innocent people to have their lives cut short.
The victims have a right to live without being shot by some kid for $20 and a watch, just as you have the right to own a gun.

Everybody wants their rights, but nobody has any answers.

[Dennis The Menace]

Gawd I'm old.  I remember a bumper sticker wayyyy back in the 70's...."if you outlaw guns, only Outlaws will have guns"  Today, just change Outlaws to criminals....same thing.

(Another 60-70's bumper sticker....  "Don't Californicate Oregon"   lol   anyone remember that sign at the Oregon border all those years back?)

Sorry to hijack, this is an emotional topic...just trying to lighten things up.  Such a house bill is disturbing.  Time for a revolution.

menace

[Jeffd]

and those ones that should not have guns will have guns no matter what laws they pass.

I keep hearing that,......

What's the answer to keep the wrong folks from having guns?  Not fair for so many innocent people to have their lives cut short.
The victims have a right to live without being shot by some kid for $20 and a watch, just as you have the right to own a gun.

Everybody wants their rights, but nobody has any answers.

I have the answer Swift capital punishment no ifs ands or buts.  No second chances, no appeals, no bleeding heart liberal mumbo jumbo etc etc etc.

[codyshop]

and those ones that should not have guns will have guns no matter what laws they pass.

I keep hearing that,......

What's the answer to keep the wrong folks from having guns?  Not fair for so many innocent people to have their lives cut short.
The victims have a right to live without being shot by some kid for $20 and a watch, just as you have the right to own a gun.

Everybody wants their rights, but nobody has any answers.

You have no idea the deterrent a fully armed citizenry is.  One of the reasons Yamamoto was so concerned about starting a war with the US was that if Japan ever had to fight a land battle on the continental United States, the would be (in his words) "a rifle behind every blade of grass."    Punks would give serious second thought to committing crimes if the above philosophy was maintained.  Ray

[blk-betty]

Agree with Jeffd.  Maybe not so extreme, but the problem is we have laws without real penalties.

Look at speeding as one simple example - I'll be the first to admit I speed - the chance of getting caught is miminal and the penalty is not that big of a deal.  If one had a reasonable chance of getting caught and the penalty was immediate loss of license and confiscation of vehicle for 30 days, no if's and's or but's - you wouldn't see many people speeding.

Same with gun crimes - commit a crime with a gun and the penalty needs to be immediate and harsh.  I'd bet a very small % of the population are involved in gun crimes and of those that are a large % are repeat offenders.  Get rid of them, one way or the other.

[tireater]

Before Katrina...the homocide conviction rate in New Orleans was 7%...You really think disarming honest citizens will stop that blood bath...?

[Jeffd]

Agree with Jeffd.  Maybe not so extreme, but the problem is we have laws without real penalties.

Look at speeding as one simple example - I'll be the first to admit I speed - the chance of getting caught is miminal and the penalty is not that big of a deal.  If one had a reasonable chance of getting caught and the penalty was immediate loss of license and confiscation of vehicle for 30 days, no if's and's or but's - you wouldn't see many people speeding.

Same with gun crimes - commit a crime with a gun and the penalty needs to be immediate and harsh.  I'd bet a very small % of the population are involved in gun crimes and of those that are a large % are repeat offenders.  Get rid of them, one way or the other.

Ok, you worded it better "immediate and harsh"  LOL.   .

[northbrun]

HR45 sounds just like the law already in effect in Mass. I have a LTC and all my guns are regestered. it is an inconvience, I would like to see it repieled (like that will ever happen) I do agree though... if all legal citizens had guns, the crime rate would go down.

[Faast Ed]

Agree with Jeffd.  Maybe not so extreme, but the problem is we have laws without real penalties.

Currently it is an automatic 5 years (Federal law) for a convicted felon to be caught with a gun. It's been a law for a long time.
Federal sentencing requires that you serve 85% of your sentence. 

Yet so many bad guys still have 'em.


I'm not implying that I know the answer!  I sure wish I did. But I do know that something needs to be done.  This ain't the cowboy days we're livin' in.

[Fxstchewy]

Well I do know one thing, passing a bunch "Laws" on me ain't going lower any crime rate because.......I ain't out there holding up anyone. The best thing they can do IMO is take guns out of Hollywood movies, take them out of rap, make it mandatory prison for anyone committing violent crime. Charlotte, NC close to where i live is a criminals paradise, slap on the wrist and let them out, Jail needs to be Jail not a Resort, no DVD's, no HDTV's.  Have them bust up Rock for all i care. I can turn on the 5'oclock news almost everyday and 90% of the time you see who cause's the trouble, VERY Rare for a farmboy to be out shooting up the hood on a Tuesday night, 'cause he has to be up early. and IMHO if all strapped on a gun like the old days the trouble makers would be eliminated pretty fast. America has got to get out of this "Hugg a Teddy Bear" mentality.  Chewy   

[egstandard]

Well said Chewy.

[PC_Hater]

The differences in the UK are:-

1) I don't have to be fingerprinted.
2) Any psychological problems must be declared. The police then check with your doctor to see if you are 'safe' or not. If you do have a psychological problem it is best to declare it or you get jumped on from a great height... And you can often still be allowed a rifle. Hey, I am!
3) You need a valid reason to own a gun. Membership of a registered club is all that is required.
4) The UK government has been planning a database of gun ownership for a number of years, they still can't make it work.

Light control is all that is needed, ditch the draconian parts and live in peace.
My two rifles are locked in my gun cabinet as required by UK law.

The bit that makes me fall about laughing is that handguns are strictly verboten. Shall we have a little chat about the 2012 Olympics in London? And especially the pistol shooting events. That would be the illegal under UK law pistol events. The UK Govt Plan A was to hold those at the shooting range at Bisley. The International Olympic Committee told them that was not acceptable. London Olympics remember! So they have to build new facilities at Greenwich. ALL movements of pistols MUST be registered with the Chief Constable of the area. Such fun! I do enjoy telling people about that!

We have had problems in the past where known nutters have been allowed to keep their pistols just because they were members of the Freemasons, and so was the Chief Constable who could say yay or nay to that person owning any firearm. Chief Constable says yes. Nutter goes apeshit and kills children in the local junior school, we all lose the right to have a pistol. Look up 'Dunblane Massacre'.

Now if I was 15 and a gang member I would have easy access to an illegal hand gun.  

[littlefrank]

Jeffd, you are right on target. God Bless you. I'm going to enjoy watching this thread. It will be interesting to see both sides of this one. Phu Cat, I did see this a while ago. The gun laws are there in every state. And NO, they are not being enforced. The problem is the plea bargain. Being in Law Enforcement I see first hand, both sides of this issue. There are usually multiple charges when a crime is committed with a gun. Most people don't see what happens in the court room. That's where the charges get dropped. I could go on forever with this. I love to debate these issues. But I use facts. Nothing else. This is nothing compared to what this administration and the liberals are going to try. Make a list of what they have done in the past two weeks. That should tell you something.  

[Fxstchewy]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_causes_of_death_by_rate

[76shuvlinoff]

Observation:

On the old HTT we immediately axed  gun discussions due to chest beating and quick death spirals into political bickering. Not saying that is where this thread has gone yet just saying it has the earmarks. I for one am impressed that the last few "gun" threads did not have to get squashed. I, and I'm sure the other moderators, would only ask that we keep it high road and civil. We are a world wide website and keeping these threads alive is a good way to educate people about our 2nd amendment rights and the threats to them.

Thank you

   Mark

[tireater]

In Santa Barbara...The cops still have the upper hand on gun crimes...They put the word out...gun = no plea bargain...It seemed to work...
We have very few shootings here...The gang bangers usually stab each other...And you can't get a carry permit here...

[calbyker69]

I have several buddies that are convicted felons and own more guns then I do. Why? Simple. I have to purchase mine legally at a lot higher price then they do. I have to jump through the hoops while all they have to do is make a phone call and have it delivered.
Now, these boys are not hardened criminals, just family men who were a little wild in their youth. It's a running joke that when the government comes and takes my guns because I didn't fill out a form right they will hook me up.

[Faast Ed]

I have several buddies that are convicted felons and own more guns then I do. Why? Simple. I have to purchase mine legally at a lot higher price then they do. I have to jump through the hoops while all they have to do is make a phone call and have it delivered.
Now, these boys are not hardened criminals, just family men who were a little wild in their youth. It's a running joke that when the government comes and takes my guns because I didn't fill out a form right they will hook me up.

And they'll be the first to cry " I didn't know I was breaking the law" and " How can you take me away from my family for 5 years?, I didn't commit no crime with it" or  "it was my brothers gun".
The law is there and the Feds do enforce it,.......  if you are stupid enough to let them find you with it.   

These "family men who were wild in their youth" are presently at risk of a life changing event by having those guns (regardless of how saintly they currently behave).  You might want to remind them about that next time they laff at you for doing it the legit way. Perhaps offer to take care of the wife while they are gone!  LOL  They'll quit teasing you.

[blk-betty]

I have several buddies that are convicted felons and own more guns then I do. Why? Simple. I have to purchase mine legally at a lot higher price then they do. I have to jump through the hoops while all they have to do is make a phone call and have it delivered.
Now, these boys are not hardened criminals, just family men who were a little wild in their youth. It's a running joke that when the government comes and takes my guns because I didn't fill out a form right they will hook me up.

And they'll be the first to cry " I didn't know I was breaking the law" and " How can you take me away from my family for 5 years?, I didn't commit no crime with it" or  "it was my brothers gun".
The law is there and the Feds do enforce it,.......  if you are stupid enough to let them find you with it.  

These "family men who were wild in their youth" are presently at risk of a life changing event by having those guns (regardless of how saintly they currently behave).  You might want to remind them about that next time they laff at you for doing it the legit way. Perhaps offer to take care of the wife while they are gone!  LOL  They'll quit teasing you.

And therein lies the problem.  Just like my speeding anolgy above.

Little chance they will be caught if they obey other laws and they are willing to take that risk because if they are caught it will likely be plea bargained down.  Prisons are too full and cost too much to run to throw another "family man" in for simple possession. 

It may be a 5 year sentance for a convicted felon to be caught with a gun.  But how do we expalin the convicted theiving gangsters back on the street so soon committing more crimes.  Here in the local news we hear the family members crying their son sitting in jail is a good kid, never hurt anyone but the police have rap sheets go back for years with felonies.  Maybe Jeffd had it right in post #7. 

[takwolf]

This is real Nazi stuff! I hope that American citizens will not comply if this is passed. This is one law that we-the-people must resist, as much as our forefathers resisted when the British wanted to confiscate weapons. If we allow it, we are doomed to being no better than cattle. This is still OUR Country, not the Politicians or the Government's Country!
ARM YOURSELVES!

[Faast Ed]

And therein lies the problem.  Just like my speeding anolgy above.

Little chance they will be caught if they obey other laws and they are willing to take that risk because if they are caught it will likely be plea bargained down.  Prisons are too full and cost too much to run to throw another "family man" in for simple possession. 
It may be a 5 year sentance for a convicted felon to be caught with a gun.  But how do we expalin the convicted theiving gangsters back on the street so soon committing more crimes.  Here in the local news we hear the family members crying their son sitting in jail is a good kid, never hurt anyone but the police have rap sheets go back for years with felonies.  Maybe Jeffd had it right in post #7. 

I agree with that.  The prisons are too full, as the court systems are too clogged with backlogs (not to mention lawyers with freinds in the system). Most of which involves the crimes at the State level. To think they are cutting staff because of funding issues only makes things worse.

However, the Federal system has little leniency and the cases that actually make it to the Federal level rarely have room for plea bargaining unless it involves "bringing down the bigger fish".

Most of our problems lie at the State level. 

[MikeL]

Sure sounds a lot like NJ. Been like that for years. I bet Frank the Louse and Menendes the crook weren't far from that commie Emanuel's ear.


                                                                                                MIKE

[Dennis The Menace]

With Gods help, such an ignorant and fear-based law could not pass here.  But, if it did, how would anyone even prove I have a gun to register?  Keep putting stupid laws on law abiding citizens, and there wont be any (law abiding citizens) left.  nuff said.

menace

[Fxstchewy]

Menace, the people that pay the bills are going to have to get Very vocal with the people that are supposed to uphold the Constitution, Represent the People or get booted out of office. Thats all they understand. The "great" ex pres B Klinton just commented a couple of days ago that maybe the "time" was right now for a new AWB, well, No it's NOT. didn't do squat then and won't now, it's feel good legislation. Oh, I had a bad thing happen the other day, i was out on the boat cleaning all my guns and hit a wake and dang all my guns went overboard, sad part is i was so upset i don't even remember where i was at

[texaskatfish]

This young working stiff (thief) says it pretty damned well.............

http://www.truveo.com/Criminals-For-Gun-Control-Part-1-Home-Invasion/id/128739914

[Skullfork]

This young working stiff (thief) says it pretty damned well.............

http://www.truveo.com/Criminals-For-Gun-Control-Part-1-Home-Invasion/id/128739914

Good video and right on the money ...

[MBSKEAM]

"when they took the Jews away, I did nothing.

When they took the homosexuals away, I did nothing.

When they took the communists and anarchists away, I did nothing.

When they came to get me there was nobody left to help me."

its only just the start......


mbskeam

and this quote is not made up......

[Panzer]

I belong to the NRA and have been for say, 10 years.
This is nothing new and the NRA is fighting it, thanks to mine and others membership $$$.
Want to fight back, join the NRA, don't just talk about it.
The NRA is your best line of defense.   Trust me on that one!!

[03rdkng]

http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/legislation/2009/HCR0006.html

God Bless New Hampshire and that coming from a Texas boy. lol
Check this out.
Love it.
And if you really care, let your state and federal reps know it.

[Ultrashovel]

When they start national registration, I'm certain that all of the gang members, crooks and mobsters will simply ignore suvh a law.

Whenever guns are banned, only gunsmiths, machinists, welders and fabricators  will have them. If they ban weapons, they will also have to confiscate all of the CNC milling and cutting machines. Good luck Obama and friends!

 

[wolfmotor1]

What does "shall not be abridged" mean?  To me, it means that I have the right to bear arms and  there is no state government and no city government that can get around the Constitution.  So, why do I have to comply with ANY law that says otherwise?

[Princess Butt]

This is easy.

You find someone who wants to make a quick $500 for a break-in. You have them break into your house, steal all your guns and then buy them back for $500. That way, when the law comes to your house to get your guns, they've been "stolen", and there's a police report showing a break in.

Don't worry about insurance fraud. Insurance doesn't cover firearms anyway.

BnEUC

[Ultrashovel]

This is easy.

You find someone who wants to make a quick $500 for a break-in. You have them break into your house, steal all your guns and then buy them back for $500. That way, when the law comes to your house to get your guns, they've been "stolen", and there's a police report showing a break in.

Don't worry about insurance fraud. Insurance doesn't cover firearms anyway.

BnEUC

You can buy insurance for guns. However, assuming you don't have insurance on them, then what you have suggested would merely be filing a false report with a public agency (misdemeanor) under oath (felony perjury) and there after you would be in possession of stolen weapons (felony).

After a plea bargain, depending upon your prior scrapes with the law, you could be looking at maybe four years in the state crime college. Additionally, since this would be a gun-related crime, there would be a lifetime ban on gun ownership. (Felon in possession of firearm both federally and in all states)

That's a really bad idea. 

[FLH]

Oh I'll sleep so much better at night knowing my goverment knows where all the guns are!!

I've been blathering on for years to anyone who'd listen that this kind of crap was coming.

remember, An armed society is a polite society.

[IndyHarley]

here is a link to read the text of the bill, in keeping with being informed and remaining civil in the discussion:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/11057958/HR45-Blair-Holts-Firearm-Licensing-and-Record-of-Sale-Act-of-2009-

[Rags722]

I agree with that.  The prisons are too full, as the court systems are too clogged with backlogs (not to mention lawyers with freinds in the system). Most of which involves the crimes at the State level. To think they are cutting staff because of funding issues only makes things worse.

I could not disagree more with that statement.  If the prisons are too full, they are too full of personal possessions that should not be allowed.  TV sets, radios, books, etc.  Make a prison a prison for Gods sake.  A hopper, a steel bed and 4 walls.  If you really want to clean up crime, AND fix the economy, BUILD even more prisons and run them like a penal institute. The construction would provide work for construction workers, the materials used would prop up the building industry and it's suppliers, and the staffing would employ residents of the area.
Take away the bullshit that fills every cell in the guise of personal posessions and make prisons a place to actually make criminals not want to go to.  No time off for good behavior, no early release because of "overcrowding", and no conjical visits.  The prison system in this country is a joke.  We treat the entire system like everyone in there might really be innocent.  I'll bet if the only TV they could watch was PSA's about living right no one would have a TV in their cell.

If you ever wanted to get real and stop crime, the prison would consits of a big hole that food and water was dropped into.  If you got a 3 year term, you would be lowered into the hole with the rest of the gaggle.  Three years later, they would call your name and drop a rope ladder.  If you were still alive, you could climb out.  With a system like that, I'll bet the crime rate on the streets would drop to nothing. Oh well, that day will only live in my dreams.

Rags

[Ultrashovel]

I agree with that.  The prisons are too full, as the court systems are too clogged with backlogs (not to mention lawyers with freinds in the system). Most of which involves the crimes at the State level. To think they are cutting staff because of funding issues only makes things worse.

I could not disagree more with that statement.  If the prisons are too full, they are too full of personal possessions that should not be allowed.  TV sets, radios, books, etc.  Make a prison a prison for Gods sake.  A hopper, a steel bed and 4 walls.  If you really want to clean up crime, AND fix the economy, BUILD even more prisons and run them like a penal institute. The construction would provide work for construction workers, the materials used would prop up the building industry and it's suppliers, and the staffing would employ residents of the area.
Take away the bullshit that fills every cell in the guise of personal posessions and make prisons a place to actually make criminals not want to go to.  No time off for good behavior, no early release because of "overcrowding", and no conjical visits.  The prison system in this country is a joke.  We treat the entire system like everyone in there might really be innocent.  I'll bet if the only TV they could watch was PSA's about living right no one would have a TV in their cell.

If you ever wanted to get real and stop crime, the prison would consits of a big hole that food and water was dropped into.  If you got a 3 year term, you would be lowered into the hole with the rest of the gaggle.  Three years later, they would call your name and drop a rope ladder.  If you were still alive, you could climb out.  With a system like that, I'll bet the crime rate on the streets would drop to nothing. Oh well, that day will only live in my dreams.

Rags

OK, so do as you contemplate and within about a week, the prisoners will be ready to kill the correctional officers whenever they can get near them. Remember, somone has to feed them, take them out for showers, take them to and from medical sessions, psychological sessions and hearings.

Right, only in your dreams. What I want to know is what else are you dreaming about?

[texaskatfish]

HR 45 May be More Troubling Than the Average Anti-gun Bill

(if any of this is redundant hey shoot me - HEH)
But the first anti-gun bill of the 111th Congress -â€" Chicago Congressman Bobby Rush’s H.R. 45 â€"- has caught the attention of many in the Second Amendment community as something we need to be worried about.

This is because of the extremity of the bill:

* H.R. 45 would require a federal license for all handguns and semiautomatics, including those you currently possess; and

* It would require handgun and semi-auto owners to be thumbprinted at the police station and to sign a certificate that, effectively, the firearm will not be kept in a place where it would be available for the defense of the gun owner’s family.
http://gunowners.org/hr45ana.htm
http://gunowners.org/a021109.htm

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
but here is some GOOD news!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
GOD Bless Mississippi!!!
Mississippi Passes Legislation Protecting Gun Owners During Martial Law

February 11, 2009

Mississippi lawmakers have passed a bill to protect the state’s residents during martial law. On the Office of the Lieutenant Governor of Mississippi website, Phil Bryant announces the passage of SB 2036. The legislation “restricts the power of a peace officer to confiscate firearms and ammunitions in an emergency or during a time of martial law,” according to the website.

http://spin-1.ning.com/group/thecentralteam/forum/topics/mississippi-passes-legislation

[Ultrashovel]

This bill is apparently in committee at this point. There's no doubt that there will be something like this foisted off on the public sooner or later. We will all be felons if this is passed.

It's ironic that Bobby Rush was one of the founders and charter members of the Black Panther Party. Guess he knows a lot about guns.

Remember, Obama and his friends want your guns, all of them. even the unregistered ones. If that bill or something like it passes and you don't register all of your guns, you wil be an automatic felon. A classic example of Hitlerian or Stalianian activity. It's not for no reason that this bill originated in Illinois.

Any gun owner that voted for the present administration deserves whatever they get.

[Faast Ed]

I agree with that.  The prisons are too full, as the court systems are too clogged with backlogs (not to mention lawyers with friends in the system). Most of which involves the crimes at the State level. To think they are cutting staff because of funding issues only makes things worse.

The prisons are too full and understaffed.   What are the options?

1)  Build more prisons and hire more staff (job creation?-maybe use stimulus cash)
2)  Let all the druggies out and fill their cots with gun violators
3)  Deport all law breakers
4)  Just quit prosecuting all crimes until the court gets unclogged, and current prisoners start completing their sentences (to allow more room).

Yes the prisons are crowded with criminals, but so are the streets.  There has to be a solution!

[Panzer]

Join the NRA people, this HR 45 bill is real and coming unless we do somethig about it.
Look what happened to Britain, they took all their guns and crime skyrocketed.
Any Brits out there like to comment on this, to tell how it could be here in the USA.
Hell, it's easy to rob someone or break into your houise when they know your not armed.
Think about it.

This HR 45 bill scares me, big time.

Panzer

[Faast Ed]

I wasn't aware the HR 45 was taking the guns, I was under the impression it is more about tracking them.

[autoworker]

Join the NRA people




Good advice....life member here.

[Ultrashovel]

I wasn't aware the HR 45 was taking the guns, I was under the impression it is more about tracking them.

Well, sort of tracking them. The rules are extremely technical. They are dersigned to catch you and turn you into a felon.

If you were a socialist president and wantd to remove guns from all of the citizens, wouldn't you first want to register them and know where all of them are? Sure you would. HR 45 hasn't been passed but something like it will be the first step to making all gun owners turn them over.

The other part of it is that many guns have already been registered at time of purchase if they were purchased within the past 20 years or so. So there is already a partial data base. Many other weapons were inherited or purchased before any form of gun registration, however.

Under a law similar to HR 45, gun owhers would be required to register ALL GUNS, not just the ones that are already registered. Then, if such a law is passed, if you later use an unregistered gun to defend yourself or your home, you are an AUTOMATIC FELON. becauee you had a weapon in your home that wasn't registered.

The fact that you would even ask the question that you do means that you like many other simply don't understand your new president.

[Panzer]

 Very Important for you to be aware of a new bill HR 45
introduced into the House.    
This is the Blair Holt Firearm Licensing & Record of
Sale Act of 2009.
Even gun shop owners didn't know about this because it
is flying under the radar.
To find out about this - go to any government website and
type in HR 45 or Google HR 45 Blair Holt Firearm Licensing & Record
of Sales Act of 2009. You will get all the information.

Basically this would make it illegal to own a firearm - any
rifle with a clip or ANY pistol unless:
*It is registered
*You are fingerprinted
*You supply a current Driver's License
*You supply your Social Security #
*You will submit to a physical & mental evaluation at any time of their choosing
*Each update - change or ownership through private or public sale must
be reported and costs $25 - Failure to do so you automatically lose the
right to own a firearm and are subject up to a year in
jail.
*There is a child provision clause on page 16 section 305 stating a
child-access provision. Gun must be locked and inaccessible to any child  under 18.
They would have the right to come and inspect that you are storing your
gun safely away from accessibility to children and fine is punishable
for up to 5 yrs. in prison.

If you think this is a joke - go to the website and take
your pick of many options to read this. It is long and lengthy. But, more and more
people are becoming aware of this. Pass the word along. Any hunters in
your family - pass this along.

Peter Boyles is on this and having guests. Listen to him on
KHOW 630a.m. in the morning. He suggests the best way to fight this
is to tell all your friends about it and "spring into
action". Also he suggests we all join a pro-gun group like the Colorado Rifle
Association, hunting associations, gun clubs and especially the NRA.
 
This is just a "termite" approach to complete confiscation of guns and
disarming of our society to the point we have no defense - chip away a
little here and there until the goal is accomplished before anyone realizes it.
 
This is one to act on whether you own a gun or not.
HR 45 only makes me/us less safe. After working with convicts for 26 years.
I know this bill, if passed, would make them happy and in less danger from their victims.

From Ultrashovel....Quote:If you were a socialist president and wantd to remove guns from all of the citizens, wouldn't you first want to register them and know where all of them are?


HITLER did just that.

[Faast Ed]

I get it.  Sounds pretty scary.

[apes]

Didn't the good people of New Orleans just win a suit against the Mayor NAGIN (with the help of the NRA) to gain possession of their firearms that the mayor confiscated during the confusion of the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina.  As the story goes, for the confiscation he used the registration records from sales ( 4473 form )to learn who had a firearm.  At the end of the Hurricane the owners tried to get them back and they Mayor claimed that they were "lost", and it took a law suit to get it straightened out.  Now I may be then only one who sees this, but if you loose your ability to resist, you loose the guarantee that there will be a free election. If you object without something to back it up well then eventually the elections will become nothing more than lip service.  There are more and more electronic voting machines, one key stroke from a Hacker ( or some official special interest group ) and all the Nays have just become Yea votes.  When the Ukraine wanted to break away from the USSR the first thing the govt did was to confiscate all the registered hunting rifles and shotguns( they couldn't own anything else ).  When the Soviet Georgians wanted their freedom they had little to resist with except protest signs. It wasn't until a protesting student picked up a rifle from a soldier fallen by a rock and turned it on other soldiers who's weapons were picked up by other protesters did the cards begin to fall. The US suppported the Ukrainians and the Georgians.  Like the A-bomb you hope it willnever be used but it is still best to have it in your arsenal to keep allthe others honest and at bay. I am not in favor of anarchy of anysort but my point is that it is better to rattle a saber an not have to use it than to not have a saber at all......
Sorry, who got me riled up....me I don't have any guns

[Ultrashovel]

Very Important for you to be aware of a new bill HR 45
introduced into the House.    
This is the Blair Holt Firearm Licensing & Record of
Sale Act of 2009.
Even gun shop owners didn't know about this because it
is flying under the radar.
To find out about this - go to any government website and
type in HR 45 or Google HR 45 Blair Holt Firearm Licensing & Record
of Sales Act of 2009. You will get all the information.

Basically this would make it illegal to own a firearm - any
rifle with a clip or ANY pistol unless:
*It is registered
*You are fingerprinted
*You supply a current Driver's License
*You supply your Social Security #
*You will submit to a physical & mental evaluation at any time of their choosing
*Each update - change or ownership through private or public sale must
be reported and costs $25 - Failure to do so you automatically lose the
right to own a firearm and are subject up to a year in
jail.
*There is a child provision clause on page 16 section 305 stating a
child-access provision. Gun must be locked and inaccessible to any child  under 18.
They would have the right to come and inspect that you are storing your
gun safely away from accessibility to children and fine is punishable
for up to 5 yrs. in prison.

If you think this is a joke - go to the website and take
your pick of many options to read this. It is long and lengthy. But, more and more
people are becoming aware of this. Pass the word along. Any hunters in
your family - pass this along.

Peter Boyles is on this and having guests. Listen to him on
KHOW 630a.m. in the morning. He suggests the best way to fight this
is to tell all your friends about it and "spring into
action". Also he suggests we all join a pro-gun group like the Colorado Rifle
Association, hunting associations, gun clubs and especially the NRA.
 
This is just a "termite" approach to complete confiscation of guns and
disarming of our society to the point we have no defense - chip away a
little here and there until the goal is accomplished before anyone realizes it.
 
This is one to act on whether you own a gun or not.
HR 45 only makes me/us less safe. After working with convicts for 26 years.
I know this bill, if passed, would make them happy and in less danger from their victims.

From Ultrashovel....Quote:If you were a socialist president and wantd to remove guns from all of the citizens, wouldn't you first want to register them and know where all of them are? [/b] HITLER did just that.

That's a very good way to look at the issue. As a "termite's method" of getting their job of taking away your guns done. Remember, Obama is from Illinois, one of the most backward states with regard to gun ownership. Only New York is more restrictive.

As you say, convicts will be pleased. None of them will conply with any gun control laws. They will buy them on the street or steal them.

Watch out!

[panz4ever]

Gun control is a concept for honest citizens...Criminals don't follow laws...Taking guns from honest citizens does nothing but fuel more crime...

Can I get a big AMEN to that. Very well stated...

[smokey3644]

Amen and to Dennis about thirty posts back the sign at the Oregon Cali border said, "Welcome To Oregon come back soon".

[Panzer]

Apes,
You have that correct.
The second amendment is always under the magnifying glass, for interpretation.
It was put there by our founding fathers, to protect us from the government that wants to take them away.
Read what Mr. Apes has typed about countries stripped of their protection....guns.
Scary, you bet.   Even scarier is (I believe) it is already underway to take away your protection.
Bill HR 45 is just another step to strip you of your right to be FREE !
The Democrats in Washington are the instigators of this bill.

I am only a member of the NRA, I have no other connection.
In so saying, your best defence is to join the NRA.
Membership fee to the NRA is a small price to pay to have a group protect your rights and freedom.

Truthful rant done !!

[Evo1]

If you care at all about your freedoms and I'm not just talking about guns, the least you/we can do is to join the NRA. No one has a better record for fighting for your gun rights!

Steve
NRA life member

[harleyjt]

We don't need to control the guns.  We need control of the criminals.  To control the criminals you need swift and sure punishment.  I am a proponent of punishment that fits the crime.  If a man is caught stealing, we should cut off a hand.  The punishment should be carried out publicly and young children should be brought in to witness so they understand what happens when laws are broken.  Public hangings need to be instituted and children should be bussed in from the schools to watch - again to be sure they understand what happens when you kill someone with a gun or rob someone with a gun.  The current legal system sure ain't working.  When a person cannot live peacefully in society and interact properly, he should be removed from society.

No gun has ever walked into a liquor store and robbed and shot a clerk.  It was the criminal that used the gun and commissioned the crime.  A gun is simply a tool - just like a hammer or screwdriver.  It is simply incapable of performing any task or any action on its own.

The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
Thomas Jefferson

jt

[Ultrashovel]

We don't need to control the guns.  We need control of the criminals.  To control the criminals you need swift and sure punishment.  I am a proponent of punishment that fits the crime.  If a man is caught stealing, we should cut off a hand.  The punishment should be carried out publicly and young children should be brought in to witness so they understand what happens when laws are broken.  Public hangings need to be instituted and children should be bussed in from the schools to watch - again to be sure they understand what happens when you kill someone with a gun or rob someone with a gun.  The current legal system sure ain't working.  When a person cannot live peacefully in society and interact properly, he should be removed from society.
<snip>

In Pakistan recently a little boy was caught stealing. His father held him down while another person drove a truck over his arm to crush it. In England they used to hang chldren for stealing food. In Arabia and Iran they execute women for dating men. Is that the kind of world you want to live in?

[tireater]

Remember the woman who was caught driving around with someone who was not her husband...
So a bunch of men raped both of them....Good times in the Middle East... 

[guitar sam]

i agree with 76.  let the gun threads go.  i was looking for a good carry pistol and asked what everyone would recommend.  it was squashed in two replies.  but i did get help from one of the people who told me to go to another sight.  i then bought my little kel tek which i really like.

live and let live

gs

[HDRDR]

Get your ammo now

[calbyker69]

I heard an interesting comment made by one o those government wiz's that "ammo is the currency of the future".

[dave629]

As it this bill wasn't enough, the speculation is ammunition imports are to be halted via U.S. Dept. of State.  They need no legislation to accomplish the halt.  If implemented you can plan on increases in American ammo due to market forces. The info trail is alleged to have originated in Canada.    I got this from NSSF (National Shooting Sports Federation) in one of their weekly dealer notices.

Eyes UP - check yer six.

[Ultrashovel]

As it this bill wasn't enough, the speculation is ammunition imports are to be halted via U.S. Dept. of State.  They need no legislation to accomplish the halt.  If implemented you can plan on increases in American ammo due to market forces. The info trail is alleged to have originated in Canada.    I got this from NSSF (National Shooting Sports Federation) in one of their weekly dealer notices.

Eyes UP - check yer six.

Depending upon where it's made, that could put a fuirther dent in our economy. It would make ammunition scarce for police, military and other important groups. It would also bring about tariffs from the affected countries, further screwing up the balance of trade. 

Frankly, it's a nice internet rumor with no backup, no attribution and no names named.

[BrianK]

Fire arms deaths by state.  http://www.statemaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir-death-rate-per-100-000

Someone was complaining about Massachusetts' gun laws?  Check its rank.  50th (out of 51, including DC).

Interestingly, Alaska's number one.  Then take a look - southern states.  Western states.  Then work your way Northeast.

I bet if you ranked the states in terms of "gun freedom," the list would be similar.

So say all you want, but that these laws don't reduce fire arms deaths seems to be contraindicated by the facts.

[Ultrashovel]

Fire arms deaths by state.  http://www.statemaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir-death-rate-per-100-000

Someone was complaining about Massachusetts' gun laws?  Check its rank.  50th (out of 51, including DC).

Interestingly, Alaska's number one.  Then take a look - southern states.  Western states.  Then work your way Northeast.

I bet if you ranked the states in terms of "gun freedom," the list would be similar.

So say all you want, but that these laws don't reduce fire arms deaths seems to be contraindicated by the facts.

I agree. We should also ban automobiles, motorcycles, aircraft, recreational water vehicles, power tools, chain saws and alcohol, tobacco and recreational drugs. Then we should wrap ourselves up in bandages and go to bed, forever.

Oh yeah. There's a hell of a lot of deaths attributable to old age. We should do something about that.

I think we should all work together for a safe world, that is, one with no human activity whatsoever. 

[BrianK]

I don't advocate banning anything, except maybe cell phone use while driving.

I was responding to an assertion that tough gun laws don't reduce fire arms deaths.  Based on the numbers, it seems they do. 

There may be countervailing reasons not to have tough gun laws in spite of this.  That's not my point.

Pretty clearly, the old "helmets don't save lives" saw has been demonstratively disproven.  I wear a helmet, but I don't support mandatory helmet laws.  Personally, I think folks who don't think their brains are worth protecting are probably right.  BUT IT'S THEIR CALL.

And don't get me started on "loud pipes save lives."  Please.  I've been riding 30+ years, have six bikes at present and five of them have aftermarket exhausts.  Yeah, I like the power and yes, the sound.  But I don't kid myself it's a safety factor.  You want safety, get a yellow helmet and headlamp and taillamp modulators, and a 130db horn.

I'm just suggesting we argue viewpoints based on arguments that bear weight - not makeweights.

Climbing down from my soapbox now....excuse the interruption.

[Panzer]

It's a shame that some don't realize how good we have it.........so far.
This is only another step in keeping you in tow.

For example..........have a cell phone?
If you dial 911, you don't even have to talk, they'll send help to your location.
How?  They know who you are and where you are and I don't believe your phone has to be on either, if they really want to locate you.
That chip inside the phone tells them, on or off.
Have a credit card?    That chip maybe already be implanted in your credit cards hologram.
A backup system, if you will.     Think about it people.

The government wants to be able to keep track of you, one way or another.
So far they're succeeding.......believe it!!!
It will get worse, it has already begun !!
If you think I'm just blowing smoke..........do nothing, wait and see.

Bill HR 45 is just another way to pin point you.

[SkinHD1]

Panzer is right.  If you want a heavyweight in there to protect your rights, join the NRA.  If you are already a member, sign some other people up.  I am a life member and have been for 20 years, and I am planning on signing at least one person up.  Politicians fear the NRA because of their clout and their numbers.  It would be nice to see their membership double over the next few months.

SkinHD1

[Panzer]

I was intouch with the NRA last night on their talk show, amazing that I got on.
I popped the question to the announcer on "LIVE" radio.
The question: "How can we try to stop HR 45.
Answere: Call or write your congressmen, and tell him you disapprove HR 45.
                                      Simple!!

So far, HR 45 is on hold.
If you like your gun and protection,what are you waiting for?

[Ultrashovel]

I will very likely rejoin this coming month. I was in the NRA for many years but dropped out when I relocated. It's the only thing we have to help us out.

It's ironic that Bobby Rush, the sponsor of HR 45, was formerly the Defense Minister of the Black Panther Party so he knows about guns. LOL I saw him last night on the Lou Dobbs show on HNN. He doesn't look well. He had cancer. He was asked some pointed questions by Dobbs but had no good answers. He was asked how this law would reduce gun violence. He sounded incoherent and gave no real answer. He is not exactly an intellectual. Coming from Illinois as he does, I believe that he is a straw man for Obama with regard to this bill.

Rush mentioned that his son was killed by a handgun in some street violence abot ten years ago. While that's sad, HR45 won't do anything to prevent further violence. People like his son's killer won't be bothered with registering guns.

If HR 45 goes through, assuming everyone were to fully comply with its terms, which are Draconian, it would be the precursor to gun removal. Too bad it would only disarm the law-abiding citizens.

If Charley Manson or Sirhan B. Sirhan were to be released from prison do you think they would comply with such a law? Sure.

[Skullfork]

Panzer- don't forget about the mileage tax crap they're trying to pass that'll put a gps tracking device in all trucks, cars and bikes ...

I got two co-workers this past week to join the NRA and I'm working on three others ...

[Bladesmith]

The differences in the UK are:-

1) I don't have to be fingerprinted.
2) Any psychological problems must be declared. The police then check with your doctor to see if you are 'safe' or not. If you do have a psychological problem it is best to declare it or you get jumped on from a great height... And you can often still be allowed a rifle. Hey, I am!
3) You need a valid reason to own a gun. Membership of a registered club is all that is required.
4) The UK government has been planning a database of gun ownership for a number of years, they still can't make it work.

Light control is all that is needed, ditch the draconian parts and live in peace.







The bit that makes me fall about laughing is that handguns are strictly verboten. Shall we have a little chat about the 2012 Olympics in London? And especially the pistol shooting events. That would be the illegal under UK law pistol events. The UK Govt Plan A was to hold those at the shooting range at Bisley. The International Olympic Committee told them that was not acceptable. London Olympics remember! So they have to build new facilities at Greenwich. ALL movements of pistols MUST be registered with the Chief Constable of the area. Such fun! I do enjoy telling people about that!

We have had problems in the past where known nutters have been allowed to keep their pistols just because they were members of the Freemasons, and so was the Chief Constable who could say yay or nay to that person owning any firearm. Chief Constable says yes. Nutter goes apeshit and kills children in the local junior school, we all lose the right to have a pistol. Look up 'Dunblane Massacre'.

Now if I was 15 and a gang member I would have easy access to an illegal hand gun.  

The laws in the UK are bullsh*t...I don't know how you Brits put up with it!!!

I'm a custom knifemaker ..My wife was in London bringing one of my knives to a collector..A bone handled Damascus slipjoint folder...The knife was confiscated when she went thru a metal detector getting on a train......It is Illegal to posess any Knife over 3 inches in the UK ..it is also illegal to posses any locking knife of any size..even tiny ones on a keychain....

How do the decendents of the Knights of the Round Table let themselves be limited to knives the size of a my pinky???

About guns...You cannot own them in the UK.Period.

Where I live you can walk around anywhere with a pistol on your belt...You can keep loaded handguns in your house car or motorcycle legally...carrying concealed without a permit is a 2nd degree misdomeaner like littering..
and guess what ..WE have LESS crime then you!!!

You folks should realize that a man who cannot protect his family and property is NOT free...

[starrider]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGVAQOUi6ec

[Ultrashovel]

UK has 17% moslems who want Sharia law. They have given up their guns. They are lost. We may be close behind them.

[apes]

,,,,NRA, Just joined again

[Ultrashovel]

I just re-upped. If you care about your right to keep and bear arms, it's the only help you'll get. Obama and Holder want your guns. So does Diane Feinstein, Barbara Boxer and California and Bobby Rush, Dick Durbin and all of the Illinois crew.

Oh, yeah, next time you are thinking about hauling off and pounding your wife in the head for something she said that bothered you, just have another beer and go lie down. The Supreme Court just ruled that the law preventing gun ownership for perpetrators of domestic violence, whether misdemeanor or felony level, are prohibited federally (and therefore ultimately by states) from owning firearms.

This caused all sorts of problems for police officers in California who had formerly been convicted of misdemeanor domestic violence. They were no longer permitted to carry or own weapons. Many lost their jobs and others were demoted to desk jobs. Complaints that this was an ex-post facto law (punishing people for past behavior with a new law) were overcome. It's been held that it's not a criminal law but rather civil so not therefore ex-post facto (prohibited by the US. Constitution).

So don't punch her out. Bring the little lady some flowers, take her out to dinner, say something nice about her mother, let her use your credit cards more often....you get the idea.

[Skullfork]

Something else I didn't realize about this POS HR45 bill after watching a recent Glenn Beck show, is that you'll also have to provide a copy of all your medical records to the government ...

[Panzer]

Way to go Apes, you also Evil-Eagle and the rest. 
It's for our own and our love ones good not forgetting our freedom too.

[Sportsterboy]

I just re-upped my NRA membership.  Had let it lapse a few years ago.  I think we are in for quite a fight in Washington......

[BrianK]

Where do you see anything about providing medical records?

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h111-45

[Ultrashovel]

Where do you see anything about providing medical records?

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h111-45

Ths only reference to medical records I saw is:

102 (A) ( an authorization by the applicant to release to the Attorney General or an authorized representative of the Attorney General any mental health records pertaining to the applicant;

Also, warrantless searches of commercial locations will be used if the rules are passed.......

SEC. 403. INSPECTIONS.

In order to ascertain compliance with this Act, the amendments made by this Act, and the regulations and orders issued under this Act, the Attorney General may, during regular business hours, enter any place in which firearms or firearm products are manufactured, stored, or held, for distribution in commerce, and inspect those areas where the products are so manufactured, stored, or held.

Nice.

[Skullfork]

I saw the medical record thing on the Glenn Beck show, so I checked you tube and found a clip from the show. Here it is and the medical part is at the 2:15 mark on the video ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbVMZ2ufmSA

[03rdkng]

http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/pelosi-tosses-cold-water-on-reviving-assault-weapon-ban-2009-02-26.html

Pelosi and Reed are saying no to more control, right now, it would seem.
They remember the result of the last ban.

[apes]

Not to prolong this thread and I do not want  or to get too political BUT, IF they pased any restrctive gun legislation before the next 2012 re election "all" the NRA members would be voting for the "Otherside" and Obama would be out as president.    IF they waited until after the next election when Obama will most likely run again and if he won, they could pass it early during his next term.  If passed early enough They could take advantage of the fact that Americans have a short memory ( except when it comes to Hanoi Jane ) and by the time the 2016 election came around, whatever happened early in 2013 would be a fading memory and the Demos wold have a better chance of electing another president.  If the subject of gun control came up duting  the campaign, they could blame it on Obama...

[Ultrashovel]

I don't have a short memory. Maybe some do. I will remember every last thing that Obama said.

[apes]

It wouldn't do me much good to write to the senators or representatives in my state seein' as they are Barbara Boxer, Dianne Feinstein and Nancy Pelozi

[Panzer]

You have that right Apes.
If the dead horse icon was on here I'd use it.

[Ultrashovel]

It wouldn't do me much good to write to the senators or representatives in my state seein' as they are Barbara Boxer, Dianne Feinstein and Nancy Pelozi

Quite right. As far as I''m concerned, we Californians have no representation in Congress.

[Rusty Steel]

It wouldn't do me much good to write to the senators or representatives in my state seein' as they are Barbara Boxer, Dianne Feinstein and Nancy Pelozi

......................................................................

[Panzer]

Don't forget Schulmer from New York.   <<< That guy is a NO-NO.
Wouldn't be surprised if he didn't have a hand in the new MC laws there as well.

[texaskatfish]

"They" wouldn't DARE............would they?

You bet your bippy they would - and ARE!

"Here is a gun ban scheme taking place right now.

I listened to Gun Talk yesterday afternoon on 950 and heard that the Department of Defense has directed brass recyclers to stop loading ammo for resale to among others, law enforcement, and is forcing them to shred the cases. This makes the brass usless for anything but melting and who is buying this? China. So, the govt gets 20% of the money they could have had, ammo prices to LE and the public, and eventually the military, go up, ammo remanufactures cut American jobs, and American resources go to China.

That is change I knew would happen.

Here is a link to the letter from the DoD to the ammo companies.

http://www.theshootist.net/2009/03/dod-ends-sale-of-expended-military.html

I will be making sure my reps know that some idiot in the DoD is costing American jobs."



Katfishovic-locked-and-loaded

[Dennis The Menace]

While I respect the NRA and all they do, I personally will not re-join.  I was a life member for 10 years, until Wayne LaPierre opened his mouth and called me, my fellow US Military brothers, as well as our nations police force "jackbooted thugs" in 1994.

I renounced my Life membership then, and told NRA I would not be a member of their organization until Mr LaPierre was removed as a part of the organization.  I stand pat. 

Flame me all you want, but it will do no good...until he is gone, tehy wont get any more of my money.  And, not, they did not refund ANY of my Life membership money.

menace

[L-]

Menace,

Are these the same "brothers" of yours that murdered Randy Weaver's wife as she was unarmed holding a baby.  Same ones that were on their way to "surprise attack" the Branch Davidians and asked directions to someone on the road as to where the place was?  Good thing is knowing there are Life Members of NRA that are law enforcement that turn their backs to some of their so called "brothers".  Be funny if it weren't true. Flames?  No, the flames happened in Waco.

L-

[Phu Cat]

Bump for gmnerkm.  In response to your question, "I'm not sure it was locked.  Guess it's OK now".

PC