HR 45

[Faast Ed]

I get it.  Sounds pretty scary.

[apes]

Didn't the good people of New Orleans just win a suit against the Mayor NAGIN (with the help of the NRA) to gain possession of their firearms that the mayor confiscated during the confusion of the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina.  As the story goes, for the confiscation he used the registration records from sales ( 4473 form )to learn who had a firearm.  At the end of the Hurricane the owners tried to get them back and they Mayor claimed that they were "lost", and it took a law suit to get it straightened out.  Now I may be then only one who sees this, but if you loose your ability to resist, you loose the guarantee that there will be a free election. If you object without something to back it up well then eventually the elections will become nothing more than lip service.  There are more and more electronic voting machines, one key stroke from a Hacker ( or some official special interest group ) and all the Nays have just become Yea votes.  When the Ukraine wanted to break away from the USSR the first thing the govt did was to confiscate all the registered hunting rifles and shotguns( they couldn't own anything else ).  When the Soviet Georgians wanted their freedom they had little to resist with except protest signs. It wasn't until a protesting student picked up a rifle from a soldier fallen by a rock and turned it on other soldiers who's weapons were picked up by other protesters did the cards begin to fall. The US suppported the Ukrainians and the Georgians.  Like the A-bomb you hope it willnever be used but it is still best to have it in your arsenal to keep allthe others honest and at bay. I am not in favor of anarchy of anysort but my point is that it is better to rattle a saber an not have to use it than to not have a saber at all......
Sorry, who got me riled up....me I don't have any guns

[Ultrashovel]

Very Important for you to be aware of a new bill HR 45
introduced into the House.    
This is the Blair Holt Firearm Licensing & Record of
Sale Act of 2009.
Even gun shop owners didn't know about this because it
is flying under the radar.
To find out about this - go to any government website and
type in HR 45 or Google HR 45 Blair Holt Firearm Licensing & Record
of Sales Act of 2009. You will get all the information.

Basically this would make it illegal to own a firearm - any
rifle with a clip or ANY pistol unless:
*It is registered
*You are fingerprinted
*You supply a current Driver's License
*You supply your Social Security #
*You will submit to a physical & mental evaluation at any time of their choosing
*Each update - change or ownership through private or public sale must
be reported and costs $25 - Failure to do so you automatically lose the
right to own a firearm and are subject up to a year in
jail.
*There is a child provision clause on page 16 section 305 stating a
child-access provision. Gun must be locked and inaccessible to any child  under 18.
They would have the right to come and inspect that you are storing your
gun safely away from accessibility to children and fine is punishable
for up to 5 yrs. in prison.

If you think this is a joke - go to the website and take
your pick of many options to read this. It is long and lengthy. But, more and more
people are becoming aware of this. Pass the word along. Any hunters in
your family - pass this along.

Peter Boyles is on this and having guests. Listen to him on
KHOW 630a.m. in the morning. He suggests the best way to fight this
is to tell all your friends about it and "spring into
action". Also he suggests we all join a pro-gun group like the Colorado Rifle
Association, hunting associations, gun clubs and especially the NRA.
 
This is just a "termite" approach to complete confiscation of guns and
disarming of our society to the point we have no defense - chip away a
little here and there until the goal is accomplished before anyone realizes it.
 
This is one to act on whether you own a gun or not.
HR 45 only makes me/us less safe. After working with convicts for 26 years.
I know this bill, if passed, would make them happy and in less danger from their victims.

From Ultrashovel....Quote:If you were a socialist president and wantd to remove guns from all of the citizens, wouldn't you first want to register them and know where all of them are? [/b] HITLER did just that.

That's a very good way to look at the issue. As a "termite's method" of getting their job of taking away your guns done. Remember, Obama is from Illinois, one of the most backward states with regard to gun ownership. Only New York is more restrictive.

As you say, convicts will be pleased. None of them will conply with any gun control laws. They will buy them on the street or steal them.

Watch out!

[panz4ever]

Gun control is a concept for honest citizens...Criminals don't follow laws...Taking guns from honest citizens does nothing but fuel more crime...

Can I get a big AMEN to that. Very well stated...

[smokey3644]

Amen and to Dennis about thirty posts back the sign at the Oregon Cali border said, "Welcome To Oregon come back soon".

[Panzer]

Apes,
You have that correct.
The second amendment is always under the magnifying glass, for interpretation.
It was put there by our founding fathers, to protect us from the government that wants to take them away.
Read what Mr. Apes has typed about countries stripped of their protection....guns.
Scary, you bet.   Even scarier is (I believe) it is already underway to take away your protection.
Bill HR 45 is just another step to strip you of your right to be FREE !
The Democrats in Washington are the instigators of this bill.

I am only a member of the NRA, I have no other connection.
In so saying, your best defence is to join the NRA.
Membership fee to the NRA is a small price to pay to have a group protect your rights and freedom.

Truthful rant done !!

[Evo1]

If you care at all about your freedoms and I'm not just talking about guns, the least you/we can do is to join the NRA. No one has a better record for fighting for your gun rights!

Steve
NRA life member

[harleyjt]

We don't need to control the guns.  We need control of the criminals.  To control the criminals you need swift and sure punishment.  I am a proponent of punishment that fits the crime.  If a man is caught stealing, we should cut off a hand.  The punishment should be carried out publicly and young children should be brought in to witness so they understand what happens when laws are broken.  Public hangings need to be instituted and children should be bussed in from the schools to watch - again to be sure they understand what happens when you kill someone with a gun or rob someone with a gun.  The current legal system sure ain't working.  When a person cannot live peacefully in society and interact properly, he should be removed from society.

No gun has ever walked into a liquor store and robbed and shot a clerk.  It was the criminal that used the gun and commissioned the crime.  A gun is simply a tool - just like a hammer or screwdriver.  It is simply incapable of performing any task or any action on its own.

The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
Thomas Jefferson

jt

[Ultrashovel]

We don't need to control the guns.  We need control of the criminals.  To control the criminals you need swift and sure punishment.  I am a proponent of punishment that fits the crime.  If a man is caught stealing, we should cut off a hand.  The punishment should be carried out publicly and young children should be brought in to witness so they understand what happens when laws are broken.  Public hangings need to be instituted and children should be bussed in from the schools to watch - again to be sure they understand what happens when you kill someone with a gun or rob someone with a gun.  The current legal system sure ain't working.  When a person cannot live peacefully in society and interact properly, he should be removed from society.
<snip>

In Pakistan recently a little boy was caught stealing. His father held him down while another person drove a truck over his arm to crush it. In England they used to hang chldren for stealing food. In Arabia and Iran they execute women for dating men. Is that the kind of world you want to live in?

[tireater]

Remember the woman who was caught driving around with someone who was not her husband...
So a bunch of men raped both of them....Good times in the Middle East... 

[guitar sam]

i agree with 76.  let the gun threads go.  i was looking for a good carry pistol and asked what everyone would recommend.  it was squashed in two replies.  but i did get help from one of the people who told me to go to another sight.  i then bought my little kel tek which i really like.

live and let live

gs

[HDRDR]

Get your ammo now

[calbyker69]

I heard an interesting comment made by one o those government wiz's that "ammo is the currency of the future".

[dave629]

As it this bill wasn't enough, the speculation is ammunition imports are to be halted via U.S. Dept. of State.  They need no legislation to accomplish the halt.  If implemented you can plan on increases in American ammo due to market forces. The info trail is alleged to have originated in Canada.    I got this from NSSF (National Shooting Sports Federation) in one of their weekly dealer notices.

Eyes UP - check yer six.

[Ultrashovel]

As it this bill wasn't enough, the speculation is ammunition imports are to be halted via U.S. Dept. of State.  They need no legislation to accomplish the halt.  If implemented you can plan on increases in American ammo due to market forces. The info trail is alleged to have originated in Canada.    I got this from NSSF (National Shooting Sports Federation) in one of their weekly dealer notices.

Eyes UP - check yer six.

Depending upon where it's made, that could put a fuirther dent in our economy. It would make ammunition scarce for police, military and other important groups. It would also bring about tariffs from the affected countries, further screwing up the balance of trade. 

Frankly, it's a nice internet rumor with no backup, no attribution and no names named.

[BrianK]

Fire arms deaths by state.  http://www.statemaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir-death-rate-per-100-000

Someone was complaining about Massachusetts' gun laws?  Check its rank.  50th (out of 51, including DC).

Interestingly, Alaska's number one.  Then take a look - southern states.  Western states.  Then work your way Northeast.

I bet if you ranked the states in terms of "gun freedom," the list would be similar.

So say all you want, but that these laws don't reduce fire arms deaths seems to be contraindicated by the facts.

[Ultrashovel]

Fire arms deaths by state.  http://www.statemaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir-death-rate-per-100-000

Someone was complaining about Massachusetts' gun laws?  Check its rank.  50th (out of 51, including DC).

Interestingly, Alaska's number one.  Then take a look - southern states.  Western states.  Then work your way Northeast.

I bet if you ranked the states in terms of "gun freedom," the list would be similar.

So say all you want, but that these laws don't reduce fire arms deaths seems to be contraindicated by the facts.

I agree. We should also ban automobiles, motorcycles, aircraft, recreational water vehicles, power tools, chain saws and alcohol, tobacco and recreational drugs. Then we should wrap ourselves up in bandages and go to bed, forever.

Oh yeah. There's a hell of a lot of deaths attributable to old age. We should do something about that.

I think we should all work together for a safe world, that is, one with no human activity whatsoever. 

[BrianK]

I don't advocate banning anything, except maybe cell phone use while driving.

I was responding to an assertion that tough gun laws don't reduce fire arms deaths.  Based on the numbers, it seems they do. 

There may be countervailing reasons not to have tough gun laws in spite of this.  That's not my point.

Pretty clearly, the old "helmets don't save lives" saw has been demonstratively disproven.  I wear a helmet, but I don't support mandatory helmet laws.  Personally, I think folks who don't think their brains are worth protecting are probably right.  BUT IT'S THEIR CALL.

And don't get me started on "loud pipes save lives."  Please.  I've been riding 30+ years, have six bikes at present and five of them have aftermarket exhausts.  Yeah, I like the power and yes, the sound.  But I don't kid myself it's a safety factor.  You want safety, get a yellow helmet and headlamp and taillamp modulators, and a 130db horn.

I'm just suggesting we argue viewpoints based on arguments that bear weight - not makeweights.

Climbing down from my soapbox now....excuse the interruption.

[Panzer]

It's a shame that some don't realize how good we have it.........so far.
This is only another step in keeping you in tow.

For example..........have a cell phone?
If you dial 911, you don't even have to talk, they'll send help to your location.
How?  They know who you are and where you are and I don't believe your phone has to be on either, if they really want to locate you.
That chip inside the phone tells them, on or off.
Have a credit card?    That chip maybe already be implanted in your credit cards hologram.
A backup system, if you will.     Think about it people.

The government wants to be able to keep track of you, one way or another.
So far they're succeeding.......believe it!!!
It will get worse, it has already begun !!
If you think I'm just blowing smoke..........do nothing, wait and see.

Bill HR 45 is just another way to pin point you.

[SkinHD1]

Panzer is right.  If you want a heavyweight in there to protect your rights, join the NRA.  If you are already a member, sign some other people up.  I am a life member and have been for 20 years, and I am planning on signing at least one person up.  Politicians fear the NRA because of their clout and their numbers.  It would be nice to see their membership double over the next few months.

SkinHD1

[Panzer]

I was intouch with the NRA last night on their talk show, amazing that I got on.
I popped the question to the announcer on "LIVE" radio.
The question: "How can we try to stop HR 45.
Answere: Call or write your congressmen, and tell him you disapprove HR 45.
                                      Simple!!

So far, HR 45 is on hold.
If you like your gun and protection,what are you waiting for?

[Ultrashovel]

I will very likely rejoin this coming month. I was in the NRA for many years but dropped out when I relocated. It's the only thing we have to help us out.

It's ironic that Bobby Rush, the sponsor of HR 45, was formerly the Defense Minister of the Black Panther Party so he knows about guns. LOL I saw him last night on the Lou Dobbs show on HNN. He doesn't look well. He had cancer. He was asked some pointed questions by Dobbs but had no good answers. He was asked how this law would reduce gun violence. He sounded incoherent and gave no real answer. He is not exactly an intellectual. Coming from Illinois as he does, I believe that he is a straw man for Obama with regard to this bill.

Rush mentioned that his son was killed by a handgun in some street violence abot ten years ago. While that's sad, HR45 won't do anything to prevent further violence. People like his son's killer won't be bothered with registering guns.

If HR 45 goes through, assuming everyone were to fully comply with its terms, which are Draconian, it would be the precursor to gun removal. Too bad it would only disarm the law-abiding citizens.

If Charley Manson or Sirhan B. Sirhan were to be released from prison do you think they would comply with such a law? Sure.

[Skullfork]

Panzer- don't forget about the mileage tax crap they're trying to pass that'll put a gps tracking device in all trucks, cars and bikes ...

I got two co-workers this past week to join the NRA and I'm working on three others ...

[Bladesmith]

The differences in the UK are:-

1) I don't have to be fingerprinted.
2) Any psychological problems must be declared. The police then check with your doctor to see if you are 'safe' or not. If you do have a psychological problem it is best to declare it or you get jumped on from a great height... And you can often still be allowed a rifle. Hey, I am!
3) You need a valid reason to own a gun. Membership of a registered club is all that is required.
4) The UK government has been planning a database of gun ownership for a number of years, they still can't make it work.

Light control is all that is needed, ditch the draconian parts and live in peace.







The bit that makes me fall about laughing is that handguns are strictly verboten. Shall we have a little chat about the 2012 Olympics in London? And especially the pistol shooting events. That would be the illegal under UK law pistol events. The UK Govt Plan A was to hold those at the shooting range at Bisley. The International Olympic Committee told them that was not acceptable. London Olympics remember! So they have to build new facilities at Greenwich. ALL movements of pistols MUST be registered with the Chief Constable of the area. Such fun! I do enjoy telling people about that!

We have had problems in the past where known nutters have been allowed to keep their pistols just because they were members of the Freemasons, and so was the Chief Constable who could say yay or nay to that person owning any firearm. Chief Constable says yes. Nutter goes apeshit and kills children in the local junior school, we all lose the right to have a pistol. Look up 'Dunblane Massacre'.

Now if I was 15 and a gang member I would have easy access to an illegal hand gun.  

The laws in the UK are bullsh*t...I don't know how you Brits put up with it!!!

I'm a custom knifemaker ..My wife was in London bringing one of my knives to a collector..A bone handled Damascus slipjoint folder...The knife was confiscated when she went thru a metal detector getting on a train......It is Illegal to posess any Knife over 3 inches in the UK ..it is also illegal to posses any locking knife of any size..even tiny ones on a keychain....

How do the decendents of the Knights of the Round Table let themselves be limited to knives the size of a my pinky???

About guns...You cannot own them in the UK.Period.

Where I live you can walk around anywhere with a pistol on your belt...You can keep loaded handguns in your house car or motorcycle legally...carrying concealed without a permit is a 2nd degree misdomeaner like littering..
and guess what ..WE have LESS crime then you!!!

You folks should realize that a man who cannot protect his family and property is NOT free...

[starrider]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGVAQOUi6ec