HR 45

[Phu Cat]

Subject: HR 45

Are you ready for the House Bill titled 'HR 45, Blair Holt Licensing and Record Act of 2009'. It will make it illegal to own a firearm unless it is registered with the database in Washington D.C. As a gun owner you will have to be finger printed, you will be required to provide your DL#, SS#, you must maintain a valid address at all times, submit to mental and physical health records being put on file, you will also be required to file any address changes and you any ownership changes even if private sale. Each update will cost $25 and if you fail to comply you will lose your right to own firearms. This bill and its language mirror almost completely one defeated last year in the House of Representatives by soon to be Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel.

Ordinarily, I wouldn't worry too much about something like this.  But not with this group we have in congress NOW! 

[Faast Ed]

Touchy subject.

A whole lot of people out there have guns that really shouldn't. 
Yet there are many others that have their right to own involved.

Way touchy subject! LOL

[tireater]

Gun control is a concept for honest citizens...Criminals don't follow laws...Taking guns from honest citizens does nothing but fuel more crime...

[seattledyna]

well said

[Jeffd]

Touchy subject.

A whole lot of people out there have guns that really shouldn't. 
Yet there are many others that have their right to own involved.

Way touchy subject! LOL

and those ones that should not have guns will have guns no matter what laws they pass.  I support someones right not to own a gun if they don't want too they should respect my right to own a gun(s) un encumbered by the government.

[Faast Ed]

and those ones that should not have guns will have guns no matter what laws they pass.

I keep hearing that,......

What's the answer to keep the wrong folks from having guns?  Not fair for so many innocent people to have their lives cut short.
The victims have a right to live without being shot by some kid for $20 and a watch, just as you have the right to own a gun.

Everybody wants their rights, but nobody has any answers.

[Dennis The Menace]

Gawd I'm old.  I remember a bumper sticker wayyyy back in the 70's...."if you outlaw guns, only Outlaws will have guns"  Today, just change Outlaws to criminals....same thing.

(Another 60-70's bumper sticker....  "Don't Californicate Oregon"   lol   anyone remember that sign at the Oregon border all those years back?)

Sorry to hijack, this is an emotional topic...just trying to lighten things up.  Such a house bill is disturbing.  Time for a revolution.

menace

[Jeffd]

and those ones that should not have guns will have guns no matter what laws they pass.

I keep hearing that,......

What's the answer to keep the wrong folks from having guns?  Not fair for so many innocent people to have their lives cut short.
The victims have a right to live without being shot by some kid for $20 and a watch, just as you have the right to own a gun.

Everybody wants their rights, but nobody has any answers.

I have the answer Swift capital punishment no ifs ands or buts.  No second chances, no appeals, no bleeding heart liberal mumbo jumbo etc etc etc.

[codyshop]

and those ones that should not have guns will have guns no matter what laws they pass.

I keep hearing that,......

What's the answer to keep the wrong folks from having guns?  Not fair for so many innocent people to have their lives cut short.
The victims have a right to live without being shot by some kid for $20 and a watch, just as you have the right to own a gun.

Everybody wants their rights, but nobody has any answers.

You have no idea the deterrent a fully armed citizenry is.  One of the reasons Yamamoto was so concerned about starting a war with the US was that if Japan ever had to fight a land battle on the continental United States, the would be (in his words) "a rifle behind every blade of grass."    Punks would give serious second thought to committing crimes if the above philosophy was maintained.  Ray

[blk-betty]

Agree with Jeffd.  Maybe not so extreme, but the problem is we have laws without real penalties.

Look at speeding as one simple example - I'll be the first to admit I speed - the chance of getting caught is miminal and the penalty is not that big of a deal.  If one had a reasonable chance of getting caught and the penalty was immediate loss of license and confiscation of vehicle for 30 days, no if's and's or but's - you wouldn't see many people speeding.

Same with gun crimes - commit a crime with a gun and the penalty needs to be immediate and harsh.  I'd bet a very small % of the population are involved in gun crimes and of those that are a large % are repeat offenders.  Get rid of them, one way or the other.

[tireater]

Before Katrina...the homocide conviction rate in New Orleans was 7%...You really think disarming honest citizens will stop that blood bath...?

[Jeffd]

Agree with Jeffd.  Maybe not so extreme, but the problem is we have laws without real penalties.

Look at speeding as one simple example - I'll be the first to admit I speed - the chance of getting caught is miminal and the penalty is not that big of a deal.  If one had a reasonable chance of getting caught and the penalty was immediate loss of license and confiscation of vehicle for 30 days, no if's and's or but's - you wouldn't see many people speeding.

Same with gun crimes - commit a crime with a gun and the penalty needs to be immediate and harsh.  I'd bet a very small % of the population are involved in gun crimes and of those that are a large % are repeat offenders.  Get rid of them, one way or the other.

Ok, you worded it better "immediate and harsh"  LOL.   .

[northbrun]

HR45 sounds just like the law already in effect in Mass. I have a LTC and all my guns are regestered. it is an inconvience, I would like to see it repieled (like that will ever happen) I do agree though... if all legal citizens had guns, the crime rate would go down.

[Faast Ed]

Agree with Jeffd.  Maybe not so extreme, but the problem is we have laws without real penalties.

Currently it is an automatic 5 years (Federal law) for a convicted felon to be caught with a gun. It's been a law for a long time.
Federal sentencing requires that you serve 85% of your sentence. 

Yet so many bad guys still have 'em.


I'm not implying that I know the answer!  I sure wish I did. But I do know that something needs to be done.  This ain't the cowboy days we're livin' in.

[Fxstchewy]

Well I do know one thing, passing a bunch "Laws" on me ain't going lower any crime rate because.......I ain't out there holding up anyone. The best thing they can do IMO is take guns out of Hollywood movies, take them out of rap, make it mandatory prison for anyone committing violent crime. Charlotte, NC close to where i live is a criminals paradise, slap on the wrist and let them out, Jail needs to be Jail not a Resort, no DVD's, no HDTV's.  Have them bust up Rock for all i care. I can turn on the 5'oclock news almost everyday and 90% of the time you see who cause's the trouble, VERY Rare for a farmboy to be out shooting up the hood on a Tuesday night, 'cause he has to be up early. and IMHO if all strapped on a gun like the old days the trouble makers would be eliminated pretty fast. America has got to get out of this "Hugg a Teddy Bear" mentality.  Chewy   

[egstandard]

Well said Chewy.

[PC_Hater]

The differences in the UK are:-

1) I don't have to be fingerprinted.
2) Any psychological problems must be declared. The police then check with your doctor to see if you are 'safe' or not. If you do have a psychological problem it is best to declare it or you get jumped on from a great height... And you can often still be allowed a rifle. Hey, I am!
3) You need a valid reason to own a gun. Membership of a registered club is all that is required.
4) The UK government has been planning a database of gun ownership for a number of years, they still can't make it work.

Light control is all that is needed, ditch the draconian parts and live in peace.
My two rifles are locked in my gun cabinet as required by UK law.

The bit that makes me fall about laughing is that handguns are strictly verboten. Shall we have a little chat about the 2012 Olympics in London? And especially the pistol shooting events. That would be the illegal under UK law pistol events. The UK Govt Plan A was to hold those at the shooting range at Bisley. The International Olympic Committee told them that was not acceptable. London Olympics remember! So they have to build new facilities at Greenwich. ALL movements of pistols MUST be registered with the Chief Constable of the area. Such fun! I do enjoy telling people about that!

We have had problems in the past where known nutters have been allowed to keep their pistols just because they were members of the Freemasons, and so was the Chief Constable who could say yay or nay to that person owning any firearm. Chief Constable says yes. Nutter goes apeshit and kills children in the local junior school, we all lose the right to have a pistol. Look up 'Dunblane Massacre'.

Now if I was 15 and a gang member I would have easy access to an illegal hand gun.  

[littlefrank]

Jeffd, you are right on target. God Bless you. I'm going to enjoy watching this thread. It will be interesting to see both sides of this one. Phu Cat, I did see this a while ago. The gun laws are there in every state. And NO, they are not being enforced. The problem is the plea bargain. Being in Law Enforcement I see first hand, both sides of this issue. There are usually multiple charges when a crime is committed with a gun. Most people don't see what happens in the court room. That's where the charges get dropped. I could go on forever with this. I love to debate these issues. But I use facts. Nothing else. This is nothing compared to what this administration and the liberals are going to try. Make a list of what they have done in the past two weeks. That should tell you something.  

[Fxstchewy]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_causes_of_death_by_rate

[76shuvlinoff]

Observation:

On the old HTT we immediately axed  gun discussions due to chest beating and quick death spirals into political bickering. Not saying that is where this thread has gone yet just saying it has the earmarks. I for one am impressed that the last few "gun" threads did not have to get squashed. I, and I'm sure the other moderators, would only ask that we keep it high road and civil. We are a world wide website and keeping these threads alive is a good way to educate people about our 2nd amendment rights and the threats to them.

Thank you

   Mark

[tireater]

In Santa Barbara...The cops still have the upper hand on gun crimes...They put the word out...gun = no plea bargain...It seemed to work...
We have very few shootings here...The gang bangers usually stab each other...And you can't get a carry permit here...

[calbyker69]

I have several buddies that are convicted felons and own more guns then I do. Why? Simple. I have to purchase mine legally at a lot higher price then they do. I have to jump through the hoops while all they have to do is make a phone call and have it delivered.
Now, these boys are not hardened criminals, just family men who were a little wild in their youth. It's a running joke that when the government comes and takes my guns because I didn't fill out a form right they will hook me up.

[Faast Ed]

I have several buddies that are convicted felons and own more guns then I do. Why? Simple. I have to purchase mine legally at a lot higher price then they do. I have to jump through the hoops while all they have to do is make a phone call and have it delivered.
Now, these boys are not hardened criminals, just family men who were a little wild in their youth. It's a running joke that when the government comes and takes my guns because I didn't fill out a form right they will hook me up.

And they'll be the first to cry " I didn't know I was breaking the law" and " How can you take me away from my family for 5 years?, I didn't commit no crime with it" or  "it was my brothers gun".
The law is there and the Feds do enforce it,.......  if you are stupid enough to let them find you with it.   

These "family men who were wild in their youth" are presently at risk of a life changing event by having those guns (regardless of how saintly they currently behave).  You might want to remind them about that next time they laff at you for doing it the legit way. Perhaps offer to take care of the wife while they are gone!  LOL  They'll quit teasing you.

[blk-betty]

I have several buddies that are convicted felons and own more guns then I do. Why? Simple. I have to purchase mine legally at a lot higher price then they do. I have to jump through the hoops while all they have to do is make a phone call and have it delivered.
Now, these boys are not hardened criminals, just family men who were a little wild in their youth. It's a running joke that when the government comes and takes my guns because I didn't fill out a form right they will hook me up.

And they'll be the first to cry " I didn't know I was breaking the law" and " How can you take me away from my family for 5 years?, I didn't commit no crime with it" or  "it was my brothers gun".
The law is there and the Feds do enforce it,.......  if you are stupid enough to let them find you with it.  

These "family men who were wild in their youth" are presently at risk of a life changing event by having those guns (regardless of how saintly they currently behave).  You might want to remind them about that next time they laff at you for doing it the legit way. Perhaps offer to take care of the wife while they are gone!  LOL  They'll quit teasing you.

And therein lies the problem.  Just like my speeding anolgy above.

Little chance they will be caught if they obey other laws and they are willing to take that risk because if they are caught it will likely be plea bargained down.  Prisons are too full and cost too much to run to throw another "family man" in for simple possession. 

It may be a 5 year sentance for a convicted felon to be caught with a gun.  But how do we expalin the convicted theiving gangsters back on the street so soon committing more crimes.  Here in the local news we hear the family members crying their son sitting in jail is a good kid, never hurt anyone but the police have rap sheets go back for years with felonies.  Maybe Jeffd had it right in post #7. 

[takwolf]

This is real Nazi stuff! I hope that American citizens will not comply if this is passed. This is one law that we-the-people must resist, as much as our forefathers resisted when the British wanted to confiscate weapons. If we allow it, we are doomed to being no better than cattle. This is still OUR Country, not the Politicians or the Government's Country!
ARM YOURSELVES!