Reusable Oil Filters?

[jon1550]

Hi group - I'd like to know if anyone is using Powerhouse or any Reusable Oil Filters? I'm getting ready
to do an oil change (every 4K mi.); and wanted to know if they are many times more efficient in
distributing oil, and are proven to add more horsepower - as advertised on Ebay? Thanks for any info
before considering this investment.

[jon1550]

Anything to ad claims that using Reusible oil filters is more efficient in distributing and cooling
oil? What about the claim that Reusible filters will increase hp/ torque in the 8-10% range?   

[Sc00ter]

Anything to ad claims that using Reusible oil filters is more efficient in distributing and cooling
oil? What about the claim that Reusible filters will increase hp/ torque in the 8-10% range?   

This ought to be an interesting thread...   


I have used a K&P oil filter for several years.  No increase hp/torque (8-10%? )  I know they claim HP gains, but sorry, no...  More efficient distributing and cooling? - maybe, but neglegible.

The reason I use the K&P is I believe it offers better filtration than a paper filter - and most of all, I like to see what is in the filter, if anything, at each oil change. 

We used this type oil filtration in the road race cars for years - not typical round filter, but a flat, multi screened filter.  Same technology, different package.  After every session, it's contents would be analyzed - looking for warning signs of bad things on the horizon...

So, I think the manufacturers of this type filter oversell their capability and undersell the actual benefits - but that's marketing...

I like it...it is easy to use and easy to clean and will last years...

[Sc00ter]

Anything to ad claims that using Reusible oil filters is more efficient in distributing and cooling
oil? What about the claim that Reusible filters will increase hp/ torque in the 8-10% range?   

This ought to be an interesting thread...   


I have used a K&P oil filter for several years.  No increase hp/torque (8-10%? )  I know they claim HP gains, but sorry, no...  More efficient distributing and cooling? - maybe, but neglegible.

The reason I use the K&P is I believe it offers better filtration than a paper filter - and most of all, I like to see what is in the filter, if anything, at each oil change. 

We used this type oil filtration in the road race cars for years - not typical round filter, but a flat, multi screened filter.  Same technology, different package.  After every session, it's contents would be analyzed - looking for warning signs of bad things on the horizon...

So, I think the manufacturers of this type filter oversell their capability and undersell the actual benefits - but that's marketing...

I like it...it is easy to use and easy to clean and will last years...

http://www.kandpengineering.com/

[jd8181]

so you guys had me wondering about reuseable oil filters so i made a trip into the local harley store and asked them about it. the parts manager had a flyer right behind him that he gave it. the company is called pure power and they are out of huntington beach, ca. when i was talking to the parts manager he said that he had talked to a sales guy on the phone from pure power and he sold him. one thing he said to try is to pure epoxy down into a standard paper filter's bypass and then try to run oil through it. he said it would take (i think he said) 10 lbs. and with this new filter it wouldn't have any problems because of what it's made of. one other thing he said was to pour oil on a news paper and see how long it takes you to get a drop though it. made a really good point. and also with this filter it's the ONLY cleanable/reusable oil filter proven to be so effective and reliable that it passes F.A.A. testing. i also asked who it makes more hp and they said that your motor isn't fighting to push the oil through. and it only comes in polished because if they made it in chrome or black they said the color wouldn't last. but i do have to say that $200 for an oil filter is a lot of money.
http://www.gopurepower.com/

[Sonny S.]

sounds like the salesman did his job well

[jd8181]

here's the flyer i just scaned it

[attachment removed after 60 days by system]

[jd8181]

here's the back of it

[attachment removed after 60 days by system]

[FXDBI]

http://www.gopurepower.com/store/

Big steam and gas turbines , and big natural gas engines have had filters made from screen for years. Easy to clean and check for particulate,a magnet to catch things has well. Going to order one of these for myself now my warranty is up and the dealer cant cry foul.....Bob

[jd8181]

my dealer was all about them. even had one he let me check out behind the counter that he had just got in for someone.

[tireater]

I run a K & P and a Pure Power....I think the K & P is a better engineered unit...1 flat ring vrs (4) o rings...

[Phu Cat]

If there was an oil filter that increased grunt, there's only be only oil filter out there as all the others would have gone out of bizness.

PC

[Solarflare10]

IMO, for the price of a stock spin-on every 4K. I would prefer to avoid any potential factory battles.

[Tsani]

IMO, for the price of a stock spin-on every 4K. I would prefer to avoid any potential factory battles.

True, but once your out of warranty, there are no factory battles.

[stroker800]

  I know Merch had made one for thier own motors and kits for evos,,I believed in was sintered bronze. I thought it was a good idea at the time ,,never havin to look for filters and not fill the landfill sites.. My friend removed his from his Merch motor as he had troubles with motor (oil related). I still thinks its a good idea in theory.
Dave

[MMOCGuy]

If an oil filter advertises an increase in HP, I'd immediately be suspicious. There is no way that an oil filter can add horsepower.

For what it is worth to anyone who reads this; As far as reusable oil filters are concerned, I've used them both in my cars and Harleys and I can tell anyone who wants to listen that they are a PITA because, in addition to all of the other stuff you have to do when changing oil & filter, you have take time out to clean/change the element. In my exerience, they simply aren't worth it. A number of years ago there were a couple of companies advertising toilet paper oil filters for cars. Both worked very well but weren't any better than spin ons in efficiency. One, in particular, was very nice looking as the housing was finned aluminum but, with both, it was a PITA to size and change the element.

According to an independant study I read, one of the best filters on the market is WIX. NAPA Auto Suppy filters are WIX filters and the NAPA Gold are the best. These days that's all I use in my bikes an autos.

This is just my humble opine.

Hope this helps.

Norm.

[-SeabrookTrickBagger]

After running the K&P for many years, I have no complaints.  Did I read on this forum that the Baisley clan decided that high flow stainless steel filters were the next best thing to sliced bread and increased HP, torque, cooling ................  .  Of course, they won't remove condensation.

[eaton.mike]

Below is a link to an article in Street Chopper magazine that feaures the the reuslts of their PurePower filter test. They did a before and after test on the dyno and showed impressive HP and TQ gains.  They claim in the article "the bike was never taken off the dyno, and only the oil and oil filter were changed-no adjustments were made, and no tuning whatsoever was involved."

http://www.streetchopperweb.com/tech/0702_stcp_reusable_oil_filters/index.html

[tireater]

I did the same tests with my bikes...Got + 2/2 on the 06...No gain on the 05...
Dyno guy said they get mixed results...You get a little less parasitic loss from thinner oil too...
I like the good relief valve, keeping an eye on particle build up and being able to change filters often...

[Jeffd]

After running the K&P for many years, I have no complaints.  Did I read on this forum that the Baisley clan decided that high flow stainless steel filters were the next best thing to sliced bread and increased HP, torque, cooling ................  .  Of course, they won't remove condensation.

Baisley told me personally via phone conversation that they did not see an increase in power but did see a reduction in oil temps.

[Sonny S.]

Is anyone using these type of filters having oil analysis done ?
I like the idea but I'm just not there yet with it's effectiveness.

[tireater]

The problem with regular filters is that the overflow may be open most of the time..letting large particles bypass the filter...
Several filters have been redesigned to address this in the last few years...Reusable filters don't bypass oil easily...

[tireater]

I run both the Pure Power and the K & P...I find the K & P to be a better engineered product...
1 flat ring vrs (4) 4 o rings on the Pure Power...It also removes completely...The magnet is also easier to clean...
The Pure power leaves the filter base on the bike...I had to make a special tool to remove it...

[jd8181]

the pure power filter i seen yesterday only had 1 gasket not 4. it was one big one where the can screwed on around the filter
on a stock paper filter the bypass is open about all the time letting everything go through it on these reusable ones it go through the filter so it catches a lot more.

[tireater]

The Pure Power filter has an o ring holding the overflow to the filter, an o ring between the filter and the base...
An o ring between the alum housing and the base, and an o ring between the base and the bikes filter base...
.
The K & P has 1 flat ring...It is where it attaches to the bikes filter base...
.
The pure power has 2 magnets in the filter pleats...hard to clean...
.
The K & P has a magnet dot you can wipe off...much easier to clean...

[V24me]

If the filter was the choke point in the oil system, then having a less constrictive filter would allow faster moving oil resulting in cooler oil and perhaps less power to drive the oil pump.

It could produce a slight HP increase, much like putting an electric fuel pump on an old muscle car.

I still want to know it filters as good as traditional ones before I buy, but I would purchase if it's proven.

[tireater]

I bought my K & P from the Harley dealer...so they don't seemed worried about it....

[-SeabrookTrickBagger]

If the filter was the choke point in the oil system, then having a less constrictive filter would allow faster moving oil resulting in cooler oil and perhaps less power to drive the oil pump.

It could produce a slight HP increase, much like putting an electric fuel pump on an old muscle car.

I still want to know it filters as good as traditional ones before I buy, but I would purchase if it's proven.

Based on what I have read and believe, the KP filters are better than most if not all commonly available HD combination media filters (paper, fiberglass etc.).  The double pass tests will lend credence to this.  Absolute filtration is just that, absolute, the near opposite of "nominal."  I don't know of any common combination media filters which are rated at near the absolute rating of the KP or Powerhouse.  The Pure One auto filter is rated very high but there is no Pure One Purolator, comparable to the auto Pure One, made by Purolator for HD bikes because of oil flow concerns:  high restriction.  That being said the PerForm combination media filter is a high filtration unit and closer to the KP or Powerhouse in filtration efficiency than most other similar filters available for HD bikes.  To me, the biggest real drawback to the combination media filters is "channeling" which means that when the oil finds a larger hole in the media, the oil tends to head to that path of lesser resistance which ......... makes the hole bigger over time .. allowing larger particles to pass through the media which means reduced filtration.  If condensation removal is a concern on your bike, then a good combination media filter is probably the better route to go.

[taz95dog]

wouldn't condensation burn-off once the engine reached operating temp? just wondering...taz...

[taz95dog]

any problem with them leaking?   taz...

[Sc00ter]

any problem with them leaking?   taz...

I use the K&P filter - have for several years...  Never had a leak...   

[tireater]

Never had a leak with either the Pure Power or the K&P...

[-SeabrookTrickBagger]

wouldn't condensation burn-off once the engine reached operating temp? just wondering...taz...

I wonder how hot the oil has to get for moisture to burn off?  And, when it burns off, does it not just change to vapor?  If so, where does the vapor go, out the top end --- eventually-- or just merely re-condense?  I don't think condensation is a concern in most environments.  If you change your oil often enough, condensation is probably handled with the oil change.  While those who sell combination media oil filters tout the condensation removing ability of their filters, I always wondered why oil passing through the same media which "catches" condensation would not dislodge it especially if the media is saturated  and if the media is saturated with oil, will condensation really displace the oil in the filter media?  But, I never wondered enough to do anything about it even though I have a secondary bypass combination media filter on the bike which filters to less than 1 micron and will "catch" condensation.  Finally, condensation removal is not addressed, for the most part, in the fuel system, which will attract more water than oil will attract (temperature differences not considered) due to the alcohol in our fuel.  Personally, I have more concerns about the alcohol in fuel which loves to eat aluminum.

[taz95dog]

think your right,in the southwest condensation isn't much of a problem.if there was condensation in the oil ,the oil would look milkey? never seen that. never had trouble with it in the fuel (that i know ).i'm more worried about the alcohol in my drink. ...taz...

[FXDBI]

With the boiling point of water 212 and oil in a operating temperature is 220 the moisture would be long gone. It vaporises and comes out the crankcase vents. Only time I have ever seen water a problem in oil is when there is water-cooling involved. I really don't think you get enough condensation inside a air cooled motorcycle engine to worry about it.     Bob

[Jeffd]

i read on an oil site that oil temp only has to be 180 or for a period of time for the condensation to disapate. It makes sense because you put water on a hot surface it evaporates pretty fast even if it under 212. Seems if the oil system was so closed the moisture could not vent you would be blowing your dip stick pretty regularly.

[taz95dog]

does anyone on this site sell the k&P . think i "need"one...bill...

[tireater]

I got mine at the Harley parts counter...they were pushing them...

[taz95dog]

WERE THEY AROUND$150.00 OR SO ? THANKS...BILL...sorry caps lock were on....

[tireater]

Yep...they even had a dyno sheet showing a small power increase...

[Jeffd]

WERE THEY AROUND$150.00 OR SO ? THANKS...BILL...sorry caps lock were on....

I would also take the plunge for $150 but everywhere I have looked are higher.

[tireater]

Here is the same basic fliter for cheaper...
I think it may be a bad color...grey?...
I'm not sure what the 3rd item is in the bottom ot the pic...
That is the same element as the K & P filter...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Scotts-Performance-Stainless-Steel-Reusable-Oil-Filters_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ72Q3a570Q7c66Q3a4Q7c65Q3a12Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318Q7c301Q3a0Q7c293Q3a1Q7c294Q3a200QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem110005921603QQitemZ110005921603QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

[FSG]

I'm not sure what the 3rd item is in the bottom ot the pic...

It's a filter strap tool for removal

[tireater]

The first fin on a K & P has flats for a filter wrench...Probably easier than a strap wrench...?

[-SeabrookTrickBagger]

WERE THEY AROUND$150.00 OR SO ? THANKS...BILL...sorry caps lock were on....

I would also take the plunge for $150 but everywhere I have looked are higher.

Nallin Racing Head Service

Also a lot of motocross sites have them since they are fairly popular with that race crowd

[-SeabrookTrickBagger]

Found this site showing $119.00.  Not sure if website updated.

http://www.schnitzracingstore.com/catalogs/catalog.asp?prodid=5003637&showprevnext=1

[tireater]

Such a deal !!! 

[Jeffd]

I took the plunge for $119 shipped.  I change oil way too often, every 2500 miles or close to it so in 2 years it will be paid for. 

[taz95dog]

morning jeff,will you let us know how it works out? i'm looking to buy one. seems like on the old site someone said scootertrash had them also.but i can't find them...thanks ...bill...

[timetraveler]

I took the plunge for $119 shipped.  I change oil way too often, every 2500 miles or close to it so in 2 years it will be paid for. 

Was that for p/n S4? because I did not see it listed in their catolog?

[wrenchspinner3]

Just wondering if anyone is sensing that there might be a problem with the lack of anti drain-back valves on these filters?  I know K&P's website states that it is not a problem, as most conventional filters' anti drain-back valves don't work that well anyway, and actually present a restriction to normal flow. As well, with a roller bearing crank, instantaneous oil supply at cold start-up may not be as much of a problem anyway. 

[Jeffd]

I took the plunge for $119 shipped.  I change oil way too often, every 2500 miles or close to it so in 2 years it will be paid for. 

Was that for p/n S4? because I did not see it listed in their catolog?

I emailed them last night and ask if they had one to fit the twin cam harley and they emailed right back stating they just got them in yesterday.  I called this morning and just ask for a twin cam k&p and they said $131shipped and I said that I got an email that said $119 shipped and they said ok $119 shipped it is.  I verified it was the K&P with wrench etc included and specifically for a twin cam harley and they said yes that was correct.  They said that they would be added to thier web site on Monday when they updated it.

[timetraveler]

Thanks Jeff 

[Jeffd]

Just wanted to report that Schnitzracing was fast with shipping.  $119.99 to my door and a nice little piece of billet.  They include the wrench and an extra quad ring.  Slapped it on and could barely keep the rear tire from spinning it increased my power so much. .  I will say that I built up oil pressure instantly after changing oil, it always has taken a few seconds more with stock filters.

[taz95dog]

jeff , what is the part# ?thanks bill...

[Jeffd]

S4 is the part number.

[Jeffd]

totally unscientific test so take with a grain of salt or pepper if you perfer.  Yesterday before changing out the filter I did a 65 mile loop.  Air temp was 50 degrees and when I was done oil temp hit ~185* about 50 miles at ~80-85mph.  Today did the same exact ride same speeds,about 55 degrees.  Oil temp hit ~175*   I did change oil last oil had 3000 miles so I suppose that could be a factor. Yesterday I ran before I rode today I snow shoed before I rode so that could be a factor.  Yesterday I had 1 piece of toast for breakfast, today 2 peices of toast....

[northbrun]

yep... it's the toast!

[-SeabrookTrickBagger]

I don't have the HD or aftermarket part number for the oil filter.  If someone has it at hand, can they cross reference the HD filter number to a jap bike and thereby find out if Schnitz will have it for a jap bike?

TIA.

[Jeffd]

go to thier web site and email them what filter you are looking for.  The K&P web site also lists what bikes thier filters fit.  schnitzracing was very prompt on answering my email.

[taz95dog]

thanks jeff...bill...

[-SeabrookTrickBagger]

go to thier web site and email them what filter you are looking for.  The K&P web site also lists what bikes thier filters fit.  schnitzracing was very prompt on answering my email.

I need to hit the refresh button more often since I did not see your earlier post with the part number.... so sorry....

[wrenchspinner3]

Jeffd, so now you have the filter, did you see some sort of drain-back feature engineered into it? How about a by-pass feature? I would be interested to install one on a 2003 TC-88, but am a little nervous about the long term effect. I do a lot of oil changes, so it would represent a savings over time.

[tireater]

Last time I pulled my K & P filter...there was no oil in it after a day of not running....
I was not doing an oil change...just checking the filter contents out...

[Jeffd]

Jeffd, so now you have the filter, did you see some sort of drain-back feature engineered into it? How about a by-pass feature? I would be interested to install one on a 2003 TC-88, but am a little nervous about the long term effect. I do a lot of oil changes, so it would represent a savings over time.

It definetly has a by pass (ball bearing/spring set up) does not appear to have an anti drain back feature, but it seems that with your bike on the side stand that it is natually going to have gravity working for it.  I gotta say that my oil pressure comes up immediately (I have an oil pressure guage) I am guessing it comes up so fast because the screen flows so much oil (just guessing of course).  When all is said and done it was worth $119.95 to me.  I have torn almost every filter apart on my bike from day one and have never been overly impressed with the filter media of the stock filter. 

[-SeabrookTrickBagger]

 

Any debris would have to travel about 10 inches before it reached the pump, with the engine off, which is not going to happen unless the bike was on its right side or maybe you have a oil cooler physically mounted above the filter and "before" the filter which would allow the oil in the cooler to drain back into the filter and flush the filtered material back into the engine .

The chances of a the bypass ever being activated, below 7000 rpms, even with a high pressure oil pump which would close the differential pressure gap is very remote since the bypass activates at about 60 lbs+.

[Jeffd]

did a 140 mile ride at a constant 65-70mph, 55 degrees out and very little wind.  Oil temp never got above 170* and took about 60 miles before it even got to 170*.  I filled up when I left and when I returned had 141 miles on the tank and took exactly 3 gallons.
I am not saying this filter is a miracle producing piece of billet but hey so far so good.