Early Evo engine noise

[007]

The engine is a remmanufactured HD engine from 2003, 75K miles. I have a noise sounding from the engine. Took it by an indy who thought it was the cam bearing. I replaced the bearing which was dead, cam bearing surface was 50% chewed up. New torrington bearing and EV27 cam. Lifters appeared good. The old cam lobes looked good, contact didn't indicate anything. Measured the cam with caliper, didn't have the .105/.108 gauge pins. Cam gear was the same. Started the engine and still have the noise, sounding like a bearing failing whine/buzz. Most of the noise is on the front cylinder through the case to the left side. Used a mechanic stetchsoscope and found most noise on the front lifter block and front cylinder. The rear had less noise. Could I have a bad lifter bearing or maybe the front rod bearing with noise transfering to the piston, cylinder, case. The noise lessens as I listen to the lower case. Most noise on the right side of the engine. I'm not sure what to look at now. I had the primary off, everything looked good there. Any suggestions?

[andyxlh]

My guess would be a lifter is letting go, the bearing on the end. If u had the cam bearing out recently with 75000 miles on it I would say it was a mistake not to replace the 4 lifters at the same time. I had one let go at 80000 miles, real messy. But the sound with mine was a knocking on the lifter block rather than the whine u mention.
I've not heard a whine from a failing big end, only a thumping noise. I'd guess and hope that it is something in the timing train.
You mention the bearing was bad, did it shed any rollers? Could they have dropped into the oil pump?
You put your original cam gear on your new cam? If you got a cam with the gear already fitted you might find it whines as they don't always match with the drive gear.
Did u check the brass bushing in the nose cone?
Im still going with the lifter. After that mileage they have one their thing, and the logical way you have searched the noise sounds like one of the front ones. If they go too bad they can shed rollers which can go through the cam and pump.
Best of luck
Andy

[007]

I should have replaced the lifters at that time. I quess I'll be doing it now. The cam bearing was intact, I left the original cam gear on. There was no key or index mark. Replacing the lifters now won't be that hard.

[Rugby_fxdwg]

You should replace lifters every 25-30k miles. It's a wear item because of the severe angle geometry of the valve train.

[Hillside Motorcycle]

It's not the hydralic unit, but rather the fitment loss on the rollers that does the damage.
You can replace the rollers only(we have a fixture, but used to do it in one of the mills here)for less cost.
Scott

[Flhfxd]

Wow. Talk about co incidence. Riding the old Flh today I noticed this same noise from the same area. Thinking to myself, "this is not normal, and this is gonna be a problem". My old bike has about 85000 miles on it and I was gonna do the top end rebuild last winter but just never gotnto it. So I figured I would go one more year. And I was actually planning a good long ride in Sept.  But may be I'll hang this bike up now and ride another one for the rest of the season, till I get time and bux$ to do it up proper.
Cheers, Flhfxd.

[andyxlh]

If you do go for new lifters, have a look at the part number on them. The ones with a B suffix have a different end which is broader over the rollers, which is there I presume to prevent the rollers dropping out and going through the engine when the bearing lets go. I had the original ones in my 89 XLh (the early evo sportsters had the same lifters as evo bt) and the ends are quite narrow, it was that that let the rollers slip out and do all the damage. I have no idea if hd is up to a c suffix now, that was about 4 years ago.
Out here the current wisdom for lifter changes seems to be about 80000km or 50000 miles. It's not a very expensive replacement so I guess more often is not bad.
Cheers
A

[Mule]

50% of the bearing surface being chewed up as you say means all that hardened material has gone through your engine. It probably scored your oil pump body, and is now working on all of the rest of the engine bearings. 

[007]

Replaced the lifters, front intake roller was loose, still have the whine. No noise from the oil pump. No debris in the cam chest bottom. The cam bearing was intact, wore out.

[andyxlh]

so you have replaced 2 bad bearings - surely the noise must have changed somewhat as they would not have been silent?
Are you now getting a bit paranoid as they all make some valve train noise after a few miles.....
the common whine is the cam gear but if it is the factory one on a new shaft then that's not it.
I must admit I'm out of ideas if u are sure it is not the pump...

[007]

Oil pump has 25 psig at 70 mph, 5 at idle, no noise. Most still at the front cylinder. Suspecting the pinion gear is making some noise. Might go after the pinion gear.

[andyxlh]

Hmm years ago I rebuilt my oil pump and omitted the small circlip on the drive shaft.... Oops! This allowed the oil pump drive gear to lift and rub causing a metallic whine. Im sure that u haven't done that, but perhaps..... That area might be the next thing. Let us know how u go

[007]

Rode it yesterday and it shut down, towed home, appears to be in the ignition system. Engine will kick over with the spark plugs out. Doesn't want to start now. Fix that first, still thinking the pinion gear for noise. What do I expect for a bike
with 179K on it. Well 75K on the engine.

[andyxlh]

Well at least you have the patience to fix it! Don't worry, I have met someone who has over 300,000mi on an Evo BT - 2 top end rebuilds, the rest original. So when you sort all this out you will be good. Over the years I have had the ign coil go and the nose conse sensor too. I have been told that it is very rare for the ignition module to fail.
if the pinion gear is causing the noise, then you would expect to see some scarring or rubbing in the work hardening on either or both surfaces, good thing to look for.
cheers
A

[007]

Found one problem, the battery ground cable was barely crimped into the terminal. Put that cable in two months ago. Will fix that and continue.

[jamercier]

i see this trouble with my chum hertage softail 1997 was like a lfter sound with some noise like a rode knocking..finally it was the pinion gear who had the theet in very bad shape...we had allrebuild the top end for that kind of sound and it was the pinion gear,  it why when you got a noise like that , after lifter check always cam and pinion gear

[harleytoprock]

Your whine noise sounds like the cam gear and pinion gear are meshing too tightly. Measuring the outside diameter of the cam gear gear is not a valid test. Your poking in the dark. It's the pitch diameter that needs to be measured. Since you doing a comparison between the stock gear and new cam gear gear, you can just use a pair of numbered drill bits as cheking pins. Get some bits that the diameter is close to the checking pins diameter. Use the shank of the drill bits as the checking pins. A verneer caliper is not very accurate. It would be best to use a micrometer. The verneer caliper would would be ok if you can get repeatablitly with your measurements. The measurements of the two gears should be the same. You can also check the gear backlash with the tappet blocks removed. With cam cover on, gears oil free, try to rotate the cam back and forth through the tappet block hole. You should get the slightest feel of backlash with the gears. If you feel no movement, try sliding the cam back and forth with no spacer. If the cam is locked up and doesn't slide back and forth, that is your problem, the mesh is too tight. It really is best to use the gear off your original cam. If you don't know how to transfer the gear, find someone who can do it for you. Send it out if you can't find someone local. And last, make sure you have proper cam shaft end play.

[007]

It's the pinion gear, little tight.