3 different tranny trap doors

[No Cents]

 Anyone know of any difference in these three trap doors that makes one any better than the other?
They are all three made in the USA and have caged bearings.

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added later:
the reason I ask is I found the top one for about 1/2 the price of the other two big named brands price.
It also made of 6061 aluminum like the other two and looks to have the same bearings.   
The only thing I notice is the oil passages on the top one is larger...which I don't think that's a bad thing.

Ray

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[2006FXDCI]

Ray , Does the top one use a bearing retaining plate instead of snap rings ?

[jam65]

In my case the shifter fork rods did not install tight in the Baker door. Assembly trying to be done horizontally with the trans. in the bike was next to impossible because of the slop fitment.( rods need to be snug fit to go into case recesses) R&D called them on this issue and Baker was looking into it. Jims or Georges if Baker hasn't changed things up. I like the deal with Jims in that they supply new shift rods with their door, Baker does not.

[saddle tramp]

I like the top one just because there's no advertising on it.
and the hole are bigger so it's lighter and will drop your 1/8 mile times down at least a 1/2 second !

[jam65]

Great advice for a serious technical thread asking for some honest input.

[FSG]

I like the top one just because there's no advertising on it.

but then I like the 2nd one because of the steel insert bearing retainer 

[koko3052]

That caught my attention also!

[splitting_lanes]

The Jims is working good for me.  When I bought it Baker didn't have a trap door listed on thier web site.

I think the larger bearing is what makes the most difference, and all the material holding that bearing in place.

[kd]

Is the top one C&C machined billet and the other 2 based on a casting?

[No Cents]

In my case the shifter fork rods did not install tight in the Baker door. Assembly trying to be done horizontally with the trans. in the bike was next to impossible because of the slop fitment.( rods need to be snug fit to go into case recesses) R&D called them on this issue and Baker was looking into it. Jims or Georges if Baker hasn't changed things up. I like the deal with Jims in that they supply new shift rods with their door, Baker does not.

kd...yes this is a CNC machined piece that is advertised to do the same thing and add the needed strength to reduce flexing for big inch motors. The Jim's door is advertised as a machined piece, and the Baker door as well. The only stand out between the three besides the oil passages is the added 1/8" 6 hole steel bracket that Baker uses to support the bearings....and the Jim's unit does come with the rods where the other two don't.

Jay...so you have heard about the George's trap door before? I just stumbled across it looking on E-Bay. Apparently the guy makes a few different products at his machine shop. It does look like a quality piece...for a decent price when looking at the other two.

Ray

[No Cents]

The Jims is working good for me.  When I bought it Baker didn't have a trap door listed on thier web site.

I think the larger bearing is what makes the most difference, and all the material holding that bearing in place.

that's what I was kind of thinking too. That's why I posted the pictures of the three for comparison. I know the Baker unit uses the plate instead of the clips to hold the bearings in place...but I was wondering if the clips are good enough to do the job and the plate that Baker uses is over kill 
I think the key is to have the stronger/larger caged bearings in place to remove the flexing that the stock unit allows...but I wanted more opinions on the matter.

pigfixer...only an 1/2 second gain  I'm not trying to improve times doing this...just make the bikes tranny stronger.
I'm just trying to take the possibility of the flexing out of the equation while I've got the bike up on the lift replacing clutch parts after last weekends trip to the drag strip. It's just another thing that I need to look at doing.


Ray

[kd]

I'm thinking the Baker with it's anchor plate is more effective if you use the 2010 and up transmission with the helical cut gears.   

[Admiral Akbar]

I like the top one just because there's no advertising on it.

but then I like the 2nd one because of the steel insert bearing retainer

I like the Jim's cuz you can mill the name off and paint it textured black.

Max

[WideWildGlide]

  sadly im next on this list so im following

[hrdtail78]

I like the baker and have installed a bunch of them.  I have no experience with the GG trap door, but have plenty of his tools.  Most of my specialty tools are GG.  I am sure that trap door is as nice as everything else he does.

I am not a fan of Jim's.  I have dealt with them enough to never expect good customer service.

[Burch753]

no experience with the other two... but two seperate Baker trap doors and I am very pleased!!!

Everything I have every utilized from Baker has been spot on, and good service as well. The 7sp tranny is a worthwhile feature (if its offered for your machine?).... I mean while you are at it, you can gear enough to launch in 2nd which alleviates the 1-N-2 shift... Thats what I did....

[strokerjlk]

After the launch . It's all over . Unless the front end breaks center . You don't touch the lever again.
I have tons of passes on my 6 sp with the stock setup .
If I had rays money I would upgrade though 

[hrdtail78]

If I had Ray's money I would look at the ratio and trap door that comes in the FAT5.

[DrSpencer]

What does the Baker Street Door offer the casual rider who has a mild build (103", SE255's, etc.)?

Thanks

[Admiral Akbar]

What does the Baker Street Door offer the casual rider who has a mild build (103", SE255's, etc.)?

Thanks

A nice 7 speed gearbox.. Manual primary tensioners, pulleys, +1 oil pan..

Max

[DrSpencer]

What does the Baker Street Door offer the casual rider who has a mild build (103", SE255's, etc.)?

Thanks

A nice 7 speed gearbox.. Manual primary tensioners, pulleys, +1 oil pan..

Max

So the Baker Street Door offers little to the non-racer with an average build?

Thanks

[Admiral Akbar]

What does the Baker Street Door offer the casual rider who has a mild build (103", SE255's, etc.)?

Thanks

A nice 7 speed gearbox.. Manual primary tensioners, pulleys, +1 oil pan..

Max

So the Baker Street Door offers little to the non-racer with an average build?

Thanks

Well. The bearings are retained with a 6-bolt steel 1/8″ plate, phantom clutch lever movement is reduced by 90%. Improved transmission function is complemented with Function Formed design cues.

Max

[No Cents]

 So Max...what do you think of the top one...the Georges Garage unit?
He says it is designed to eliminate the flexing just like the other two. It looks like all three upgraded the bearings...so is it a coin toss and the dollar savings the best way to go?
I talked to George and I can pick one up for 2 "C" notes.
That's a hell of a deal compared to the prices of the other two. 

Ray

[Admiral Akbar]

So Max...what do you think of the top one...the Georges Garage unit?
He says it is designed to eliminate the flexing just like the other two. It looks like all three upgraded the bearings...so is it a coin toss and the dollar savings the best way to go?
I talked to George and I can pick one up for 2 "C" notes.
That's a hell of a deal compared to the prices of the other two. 

Ray

Right now I'd go for the baker in polished aluminium. Push the bearings out and PC the cover textured black..  I like the the way they control axial thrust..

Max

[joe_lyons]

So Max...what do you think of the top one...the Georges Garage unit?
He says it is designed to eliminate the flexing just like the other two. It looks like all three upgraded the bearings...so is it a coin toss and the dollar savings the best way to go?
I talked to George and I can pick one up for 2 "C" notes.
That's a hell of a deal compared to the prices of the other two. 

Ray

Did you ask George about the bearing retainer?  I've got a Jim's on order but its back ordered until the 12th. I get a bit of a deal getting stuff through drag and Jim's is the only one that drag has.

[DrSpencer]

What does the Baker Street Door offer the casual rider who has a mild build (103", SE255's, etc.)?

Thanks

A nice 7 speed gearbox.. Manual primary tensioners, pulleys, +1 oil pan..

Max

So the Baker Street Door offers little to the non-racer with an average build?

Thanks

Well. The bearings are retained with a 6-bolt steel 1/8″ plate, phantom clutch lever movement is reduced by 90%. Improved transmission function is complemented with Function Formed design cues.

Max

No doubt, the Baker looks like a beefy unit. But how does your description translate to real-world riding applications? Does the Street Door make it easier to find neutral, allow for smoother shifting, etc?

(disclaimer: I don't know what phantom clutch movement means)

Thanks, again.

[jam65]

In high horsepower applications, the aftermarket door helps to prevent transmission shafts from flexing by adding wider bearings that hold these gear set shafts. Riders with bikes running less than 120 square probably won't need this part.
I pulled this number just for the fact that I never had an issue with my 107" in the 120 hp/tq range. When I put 30 more or so hp/tq, the transmission started to loose the battle so to speak. It may or may not be something to think about installing but in my case it's use can only be positive insurance.
Do some homework to decide and go fro there.

[Admiral Akbar]

In high horsepower applications, the aftermarket door helps to prevent transmission shafts from flexing by adding wider bearings that hold these gear set shafts. Riders with bikes running less than 120 square probably won't need this part.
I pulled this number just for the fact that I never had an issue with my 107" in the 120 hp/tq range. When I put 30 more or so hp/tq, the transmission started to loose the battle so to speak. It may or may not be something to think about installing but in my case it's use can only be positive insurance.
Do some homework to decide and go fro there.

Not sure how they keep the shafts from flexing.. Wider bearings can take more load and not die tho.. I've killed stock TD bearings (5 speed)..

Max

[hrdtail78]

So Max...what do you think of the top one...the Georges Garage unit?
He says it is designed to eliminate the flexing just like the other two. It looks like all three upgraded the bearings...so is it a coin toss and the dollar savings the best way to go?
I talked to George and I can pick one up for 2 "C" notes.
That's a hell of a deal compared to the prices of the other two. 

Ray

Right now I'd go for the baker in polished aluminium. Push the bearings out and PC the cover textured black..  I like the the way they control axial thrust..

Max

Baker has sent me a couple of trap doors unassembled.  Coating to your liking and assemble it.  I hate reusing bearing after they are pushed this way and that.  I understand guys reuse bearings all the time.  Not me, unless I understand pushing outer race, inner race.  Example is clutch hub bearings.  One time use.  You are paying $50 at my shop.

[No Cents]

 Joe...here was my 1st contact thru E-Bay to George when I seen he offered a trap door.
I asked him the difference between the Baker unit and his and would he take $200.00 for one.
This was his reply to me.

Ray

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[Admiral Akbar]

So Max...what do you think of the top one...the Georges Garage unit?
He says it is designed to eliminate the flexing just like the other two. It looks like all three upgraded the bearings...so is it a coin toss and the dollar savings the best way to go?
I talked to George and I can pick one up for 2 "C" notes.
That's a hell of a deal compared to the prices of the other two. 

Ray

Right now I'd go for the baker in polished aluminium. Push the bearings out and PC the cover textured black..  I like the the way they control axial thrust..

Max

Baker has sent me a couple of trap doors unassembled.  Coating to your liking and assemble it.  I hate reusing bearing after they are pushed this way and that.  I understand guys reuse bearings all the time.  Not me, unless I understand pushing outer race, inner race.  Example is clutch hub bearings.  One time use.  You are paying $50 at my shop.

I agree.. I was thinking I could catch the outer edge of the bearing. Not seen one..

Max

[hrdtail78]

You can catch the outer easily.  If you use heat.  They drop right in.

[BVHOG]

I have the Baker door that came with the F6F kit and I can tell you there is still some clutch lever  bounce on decel

[No Cents]

I have the Baker door that came with the F6F kit and I can tell you there is still some clutch lever  bounce on decel

why Bob?

[No Cents]

 I ended up buying George's Garage trap door.
I figured I'd give it a try because I don't know of any product that has come from George being bad.

Ray

[rbabos]

I have the Baker door that came with the F6F kit and I can tell you there is still some clutch lever  bounce on decel

In reality, it would be next to impossible to stop it completely. Helicals will always cause forces in and out on the shafts and there's always some door flex and bearing play. All this amplified by the clutch release mechanism. Way better then stock though.
Ron

[WideWildGlide]

Ray got a link to George's trap doors i couldnt find it

[No Cents]

 It's not on his web site yet.
He has a listing for it on E-Bay for $279.95 plus $12.50 to ship in the USA.
Go to E-Bay and punch in "trap door for a Harley tranny" in their search bar. It will come up.

Ray

[joe_lyons]

How about some tapered bearings instead of ball bearings?  I know space is very limited but maybe.

[hrdtail78]

Install straight cut gears. 

[Admiral Akbar]

 

Install straight cut gears.

Max

[joe_lyons]

Install straight cut gears.

Andrews would make them for me right?

[No Cents]

Install straight cut gears.

Andrews would make them for me right?

[BVHOG]

I have the Baker door that came with the F6F kit and I can tell you there is still some clutch lever  bounce on decel

In reality, it would be next to impossible to stop it completely. Helicals will always cause forces in and out on the shafts and there's always some door flex and bearing play. All this amplified by the clutch release mechanism. Way better then stock though.
Ron

Good explanation  and yes far better than stock

[saddle tramp]

Install straight cut gears.

Andrews would make them for me right?

             

[Admiral Akbar]

Install straight cut gears.

Andrews would make them for me right?

             

I'd bet he'd do it.. About 100-200k for NRE and a minimum purchase of 100 sets would get him going..

Max

[hrdtail78]

There are already option out there for putting straight cuts into the cruise drive transmissions.

[saddle tramp]

There are already option out there for putting straight cuts into the cruise drive transmissions.

Have you got a link or two for that ?

[WideWildGlide]

Thanks Ray for the link and im really following this post as i feel the 30,000 miles of abuse is taking its toll on my trans

[hrdtail78]

There are already option out there for putting straight cuts into the cruise drive transmissions.

Have you got a link or two for that ?

I was wrong.  They only go up to 06 in FL applications.

[kd]

Didn't the helical cut gears show up in 2010 to tame the gear noise (whine) in the 09 trans? If so, would the 09 gears do the job?

[hrdtail78]

I thought they showed up in 06 dyna's and 07 for the rest.??

[Admiral Akbar]

Didn't the helical cut gears show up in 2010 to tame the gear noise (whine) in the 09 trans? If so, would the 09 gears do the job?

In 2010 only in 5th gear was changed from straight to helical mainly for the sissies the complained about the noise... 2-4 and layshaft have been helical since the clunk drives came out in 2006.

Max

[strokerjlk]

Thanks Ray for the link and im really following this post as i feel the 30,000 miles of abuse is taking its toll on my trans

I have 3 times that mileage on my stock 6 sp . Don't get to nervous.

[WideWildGlide]

well i plan to go in it and fresh it up it not as smooth as the newer 6 speeds,i have access to two other bikes 2012's and they work and shift much better then mine and i kinda want that out my 2010's and if my dad buy a baker 7 speed i will just use hes stuff if it will allow,only bug i have is i feel that falls out gear some time or dosnt fully engaged in said gear usually 2-3 shift only seem to do it at the track, i almost got my 124 back together and i plan to follow you with nitrous and do as much my budget/clutch will hold so the trap door was kinda why im in there along with the chain conversion

[Eglider05]

Slightly off topic....How does the trap door on the SE 6-speed stack up?

Thanks,
Rick

[strokerjlk]

well i plan to go in it and fresh it up it not as smooth as the newer 6 speeds,i have access to two other bikes 2012's and they work and shift much better then mine and i kinda want that out my 2010's and if my dad buy a baker 7 speed i will just use hes stuff if it will allow,only bug i have is i feel that falls out gear some time or dosnt fully engaged in said gear usually 2-3 shift only seem to do it at the track, i almost got my 124 back together and i plan to follow you with nitrous and do as much my budget/clutch will hold so the trap door was kinda why im in there along with the chain conversion

Are you using the clutch to shift at the track ?
It's gonna flex if you pull the lever . Don't pull the lever .

[C-Cat]

well i plan to go in it and fresh it up it not as smooth as the newer 6 speeds,i have access to two other bikes 2012's and they work and shift much better then mine and i kinda want that out my 2010's and if my dad buy a baker 7 speed i will just use hes stuff if it will allow,only bug i have is i feel that falls out gear some time or dosnt fully engaged in said gear usually 2-3 shift only seem to do it at the track, i almost got my 124 back together and i plan to follow you with nitrous and do as much my budget/clutch will hold so the trap door was kinda why im in there along with the chain conversion

Had that on my dyna when I went to 124ci. dogs weren't fully engaging. My neighbor helped my pull the gearset and within seconds he found the problem when shifting it out of the case. He made a recessed shim, installed it and shifted it on his work bench. Now the dogs were fully engaging on the cage. I never had another problem with it popping out of third again.

[N-gin]

So which one is stronger?

[WideWildGlide]

Stroker
  At the track i have to use clutch from 1st-2nd, but for 2nd-3rd im just now blipping(i guess that the word) the  throttle and shifting with out the clutch, i cant do that between 1-2 as it sometime gets caught  in neutral and i recall it falling out 2nd few times durning these type of launch's on the street, when i switch to nitrous i already own pingle electric shifter that i need too send back to him to get looked at, it has a weak throw now but i just decide to try learn to rely on my skill hand shifting it this year vs last year i rely on the electric shifter mostly, im a amateur and this on local 1/8th track, and thanks for any and all input also i still have auto tenision not welded i know i need to weld it but i usually have to readjust that the next morning from speed shifting

[WideWildGlide]

well i plan to go in it and fresh it up it not as smooth as the newer 6 speeds,i have access to two other bikes 2012's and they work and shift much better then mine and i kinda want that out my 2010's and if my dad buy a baker 7 speed i will just use hes stuff if it will allow,only bug i have is i feel that falls out gear some time or dosnt fully engaged in said gear usually 2-3 shift only seem to do it at the track, i almost got my 124 back together and i plan to follow you with nitrous and do as much my budget/clutch will hold so the trap door was kinda why im in there along with the chain conversion

Had that on my dyna when I went to 124ci. dogs weren't fully engaging. My neighbor helped my pull the gearset and within seconds he found the problem when shifting it out of the case. He made a recessed shim, installed it and shifted it on his work bench. Now the dogs were fully engaging on the cage. I never had another problem with it popping out of third again.

Thank you i will be sure to watch this