S&S 144 engine Specs

[HD/Wrench]

10.47 cr
.635 cams
2.300" intake valves
1.800" exhaust valves
1.725 rockers
B-3 Heads
4 .625 stroke
4 .425" bore
7.800" rods
In black or granite
70mm t/body
Bassani pipe only available at this point.
162 hp/151 ft/lbs on the test bike.

2008 + FL touring  S&S will have the pipe for sale as well one part number for the complete induction set up


More specs to come ( will have CC of the heads to add,  etc).   Retail on the engine is 9350.00,.. 6 month warranty. It was released today.   Any takers, great early Christmas gift   

[CowboyTutt]

I'm interested but it depends if it could be modified to fit my 09 Dyna.  I will probably stick to my current plan.  I punched the numbers into the Big Boyz calculator and I get 142.25 cubic inches with that bore and stroke.  -Tutt

[Jswerve]

10.47 cr
.635 cams
2.300" intake valves
1.800" exhaust valves
1.725 rockers
B-3 Heads
4 .625 stroke
4 .425" bore
7.800" rods
In black or granite
70mm t/body
Bassani pipe only available at this point.
162 hp/151 ft/lbs on the test bike.

2008 + FL touring  S&S will have the pipe for sale as well one part number for the complete induction set up


More specs to come ( will have CC of the heads to add,  etc).   Retail on the engine is 9350.00,.. 6 month warranty. It was released today.   Any takers, great early Christmas gift   

A real arm stretcher there.   

[CowboyTutt]

SA cases and specific crank or T2 cases Steve?  -Tutt 

[1FSTRK]

Any dyno graphs yet?
Just wondering what rpm for peak TQ and HP.

[No Cents]

I know where one of the three finished S&S 144" engines is going   
right down the street from my house. 
It also takes a different front motor mount Steve...that S&S says is needed so it will bolt into the frame.
I was asked last week if I wanted one of the three engines they had ready to ship...but I passed.

Ray

[1FSTRK]

Ray will this motor be going on a dyno so that we can see some real world tests?

[No Cents]

 yes...up in Paradise I believe.

Ray

[Burch753]

 :koolaid1:wheels turning and turning and turning... What cams? Get it with 4-bolt B2's, increased compression?

124" b2 heads all the trimmings for sale...

[groundhog143]

 

[No Cents]

 
now it's groundhog144...I see   
exciting times for you my brother!
I say lets pull the 103 and be ready for the big brown truck to show up   

Ray

[mattVA]

So is this the new 124". .everyone moves to 144"?

[HD/Wrench]

Lee at Backyard cycle got one of them. The engine was assigned to us as we had it sold to a customer in Dallas ,... however customer changed his mind yesterday and is opting for a more mild 124 instead 

So it was passed on to Lee.

A granite one is heading up to Canada. So there will be a few dyno sheets out in the future.

CI inch wise  its 142.75 so maybe that program rounded. Not that it matters any .

Case is not a SA set up.

And yes there are two motor mounts post and pre 09.

[Burch753]

Lee at Backwoods cycle got one of them. The engine was assigned to us as we had it sold to a customer in Dallas ,... however customer changed his mind yesterday and is opting for a more mild 124 instead 

So it was passed on to Lee.

A granite one is heading up to Canada. So there will be a few dyno sheets out in the future.

CI inch wise  its 142.75 so maybe that program rounded. Not that it matters any .

Case is not a SA set up.

And yes there are two motor mounts post and pre 09.

Can we order an unassembled version?

[HD/Wrench]

Not at this time.

[build it]

Moco cases don't seem worth it, I bet these are S&S cases.

[Burch753]

Moco cases don't seem worth it, I bet these are S&S cases.

moco case wont support that bore

[build it]

I realize that, and they may not be SA cases, but Id wager the cases are more than adequate.

[HD/Wrench]

New S&S T2 case NON SA style

[build it]

Thanks for clarifying, there was a rumor that this engine was based on MOCO cases.

[groundhog143]

 Correction Steve its Backyard Cycle in Harrison Ohio

[CowboyTutt]

Steve, thanks for answering all our questions!     Its interesting how versatile the new T2 cases are.  It sounds like an interesting motor although I think there is more performance in it.  -Tutt 

[76shuvlinoff]

Prepare to find all the weak(er) links in the chain between that mill and the ground. 

[No Cents]

Prepare to find all the weak(er) links in the chain between that mill and the ground. 

that is going to be one bad mammy jammy of a crate motor.
It will put the rest of the bikes components to the test.
I'm sure it will find the weak links quickly.

Ray

[CowboyTutt]

That's going to be about 670 lift on those stilts, isn't it?  They must feel very confident in their valve train for long term use.  -Tutt 

[No Cents]

"A"...I don't think this was designed as a touring motor intended for long term use.
I was shocked it comes with a 6 month warranty to tell you the truth.
This engine isn't going to be for the faint of heart!
I think if it's well maintained it will last a long time...but if your ripping on it...something will be breaking. More than likely the weaker links on the bike initially. Once all that has been worked out...Lord knows what's going to happen.

Ray

[rob71458]

Ray, you may be in that same situation soon too.  Don't know if that is a good thing or a bad thing though.

[No Cents]

 I'm there already Rob.
I've had clutch and comp issues and I've seen evidence of tranny trap door flex. All this kind of stuff will have to be addressed with an engine like this one.
A 144"er will show stuff like what I've seen...even faster I would think.
But man...just think of all that power they will make. 

Ray

[76shuvlinoff]

Even if I could afford the engine I couldn't afford to feed it tires. 

[No Cents]

 
It would be a smart move to own stock in your favorite rear tire manufacturer.

[hrdtail78]

I don't think engine size has much to do with engine longevity.  How it is built and what is being done to it is more important.  If the correct upgrades are made to the rest of the bike.  I own a 454 in a motorhome.  This isn't the same 454 in my buddy's drag boat.

[No Cents]

Fed Ex delivery says...when?   
I bet your not going to sleep a wink tonight   

Ray

[strokerjlk]

Fed Ex delivery says...when?   
I bet your not going to sleep a wink tonight   

Ray

And I bet he calls off work tomorrow and has #10 wood about 10:30 am 

[Durwood]

Fed Ex delivery says...when?   
I bet your not going to sleep a wink tonight   

Ray

And I bet he calls off work tomorrow and has #10 wood about 10:30 am

I bet your correct, a Redneck day will be in order.

[TorQuePimp]

it has the 635 ho cam in it ?

Or not 100% sure its the same one ?

[2006FXDCI]

I was told it was the 635HO cam by S&S today and was given a part # for that cam for the S&S oil pump gear drive cam . Part #330-0369

[TorQuePimp]

in that case the advertised numbers are pretty much meaningless

I would be interested in seeing a set of B-3 heads tho

[CowboyTutt]

in that case the advertised numbers are pretty much meaningless

Torque, why so?  I honestly don't understand.  Are the tolerances so bad that the cam specs vary a lot? -Tutt

[TorQuePimp]

  Not cam specs....advertised horsepower numbers

  Big engine with huge ports,really big bore and they stick a little puppy cam and less than 10.5-1 compression and it has only been tested with one pipe.

  A little more squeeze and a different cam and exhaust.....things could get interesting.

[JohnCA58]

    would like to expect 1.25 hp per cubic inch. with more c.r. and cam

[sfmichael]

  Not cam specs....advertised horsepower numbers

  Big engine with huge ports,really big bore and they stick a little puppy cam and less than 10.5-1 compression and it has only been tested with one pipe.

  A little more squeeze and a different cam and exhaust.....things could get interesting.

Probably easier to offer a warranty on what would basically be considered a de-tuned race motor. I'm betting they know many won't leave well enough alone - but once the fun starts, the warranty is out the window. Might have been planned that way... 
Bet it runs pretty damn good even at 10.5:1 

[76shuvlinoff]

I would imagine S&S has a recipe and package for more spank, costs a bit more, likely voids the warranty.

You know, like H-D does... 

[Ohio HD]

Watch for the Star Racing versions that will no doubt surface...   

[1FSTRK]

Watch for the Star Racing versions that will no doubt surface...

Ding Ding Ding we have a winner.

[Templer]

Look at the rocker ratio used with those .635  IT MADE 130 HP/120 tork  with a 106/635HO CNC package so This should be fun. There is MORE left on the table. WARRANTY!!!!!!  Bets on -2 cams have been taken.
Pony with BIG heart!!!!

[Durwood]

Who gets the honor of tuning the first HTT 144 ?

[No Cents]

 Paradise Performance...would be a safe bet   

Ray

[HD/Wrench]

S&S oil pump set up no cams for it other than what S&S has to offer. You could remove all of it and buy new pump plate cam cover etc.. More power for what. You got guys out there that cannot figure out how to make 140 hp work with out burning out the clutch, tearing up drive train parts..

Then let the dyno games start  as not like it's a mystery some drums are reading higher than others,....or maybe race track results, who knows ,

But if I can pull a 7.30 in the 1/8 on a  bagger with a basic out the box S&S engine with approx  20 less hp and almost the reduction on tq .. I am betting that bike with a rider that can figure out you dont need max rpm to launch and not burn down parts will be a 10 second member or high 6 if its the 1/8 mile crowd.. 

[No Cents]

 Steve...Randy's bike will probably never see the drag strip as being a competitor...spectator...yes.
It will however be one badass bar hopper bagger.

Ray

[Templer]

Picture this:
Yamaha  rider
"What the F was that?"


A  S&S 144 HD Bagger on a "BEER RUN" !!!!

[Durwood]

Paradise Performance...would be a safe bet   

Ray

Good call.

[groundhog143]

Templer Best post so far

[kd]

With Randy and Ray ridin together out of the same neighborhood it's going to be one crazy little corn belt town.    There'll be snaky little black lines all over the streets.  Could become a tourist attraction. 

[NCTURBOS]

I would be interested in seeing a set of B-3 heads tho

Are there specs. listed for these stating any differences compared to B2 heads?

K.

[sfmichael]

With Randy and Ray ridin together out of the same neighborhood it's going to be one crazy little corn belt town.    There'll be snaky little black lines all over the streets.  Could become a tourist attraction. 

      

[joe_lyons]

I would be interested in seeing a set of B-3 heads tho

Are there specs. listed for these stating any differences compared to B2 heads?

K.

+1

[TorQuePimp]

 2.3 intake   1.8 exhaust  108 CC chamber

  May or may not have a pair of heads here after biketoberfest

  Provided I do I will post flow numbers BUT they will be on a 4.35 bore.....not sure it makes much difference ill scooch the head over and see.

  Guy is selling the 124 B2 headed engine out of his roadking for the 144" mill....he has a warmed over jims 135 in his seeg ....must be fun or funner.....gotta make his thunderheader fit

[No Cents]

Picture this:
Yamaha  rider
"What the F was that?"


A  S&S 144 HD Bagger on a "BEER RUN" !!!!

   
perfect description!   
you nailed it.

Ray

[TXChop]

Dammit...i log in this site for the first time in months and i have to read this thread. Who has a touring bike for sale??

[No Cents]

 How's it going Dan?
perfect timing to log back in.
Exciting times for the new S&S 144 crate engine.

Ray

[gordonr]

No confirmation but heard the intake ports were lowered. Maybe Ray can measure it to verify?

[WI Bob]

With Randy and Ray ridin together out of the same neighborhood it's going to be one crazy little corn belt town.    There'll be snaky little black lines all over the streets.  Could become a tourist attraction. 

I heard this vehicle is already parked by those snaky little black lines on the road. Vultures! 

[TXChop]

How's it going Dan?
perfect timing to log back in.
Exciting times for the new S&S 144 crate engine.

Ray

Things are great here, you? This engine sounds great. Maybe my next ride will have one.

[HD/Wrench]

EX ports are raised over stock. I have the spec  written down, but off hand I think it's .420 + over stock centerline..

[CowboyTutt]

Thank you Steve, that would jive with what I am hearing, that the intake port height is .450 over stock with the B2, not the B3 heads.  But probably similar numbers.  You apparently call S&S a lot!  -Tutt 

[HD/Wrench]

My Rep gave me all the info some time ago .. but thats why he trusts me , NOT to post stuff that is non factual or before its due to be released.   My Rep is right here in texas , really not far from my shop. Very cool to be in the loop on new stuff.  Bummed we did not get the first build but hey thats the way it goes some times. Customer is doing a 124 over the 144 though so all good there.. With some work other pipes could be easily adapted, but its some cutting and welding. Not that big of deal really. Our plan was to use the Megashot pipe. I like that way it worked on others  , and it was clear it needs to be on a larger engine.

We are in the works now and it will not be the out the box set up.  will see how it goes..  I even think about pulling the 124 out of the shark and running the 144. But to be honest the 124 has way more power than is needed and it runs great. To and from the BBQ rally pulling down 42-43 MPG  loaded ( wife had fun shopping ) at 78-82 MPH over the 1000 mile trip ,... I am cool with that. Tons of passing power.. stop and go was ok so what more do I need..   

[rageglide]

Queue Steve Martin in "The Jerk"... "I don't need anything...  uh, ok, I need this... I need this 144" engine... and that's all I need... "

Comeon Steve, you have a 124, but we ALL know we need more power!  That's what we need!

Time to start surfing the classifieds as the has-been bad ass 124's are tossed to the curb...   

[76shuvlinoff]

Time to start surfing the classifieds as the has-been bad ass 124's are tossed to the curb...   

shhhhhhhhh,

I plan on hanging around Ray's house on trash day.

 

[hrdtail78]

Your missing the point Steve. It's not if it's needed. It's so you can say you have it, post pics of it daily, and maybe get 1000-2000 miles on it annually.

[No Cents]

If your talking about Randy and his 144"er Jason...you couldn't be further from the truth.
His bike will be ridden...and I doubt he post many pictures of it.
But...I hope he does.
Randy is not a guy that thumps his chest or pats himself on the back...he's just a gear head horsepower junkie.   

Ray

[HD/Wrench]

Thank you Steve, that would jive with what I am hearing, that the intake port height is .450 over stock with the B2, not the B3 heads.  But probably similar numbers.  You apparently call S&S a lot!  -Tutt

Tutt  I missed it by this much... it is .425 raised over stock

[CowboyTutt]

Thanks Steve.     I'm hoping to make a Wegner 2-1 work on my build.  -Tutt

[hrdtail78]

If your talking about Randy and his 144"er Jason...you couldn't be further from the truth.
His bike will be ridden...and I doubt he post many pictures of it.
But...I hope he does.
Randy is not a guy that thumps his chest or pats himself on the back...he's just a gear head horsepower junkie.   

Ray

Wow.  No Ray, this isn't about you.  It isn't about anybody in particular.  I have no idea who Randy is.

The days of laminated dyno sheets are over.  Now it's on their phone.

[Durwood]

Time to start surfing the classifieds as the has-been bad ass 124's are tossed to the curb...   

shhhhhhhhh,

I plan on hanging around Ray's house on trash day.

 

Mark, I called dibs on it a year ago, guess I'll have to pitch a tent next to the dumpster

[76shuvlinoff]

Damn!!

[citabria]

Still no welded crank?

[Ohio HD]

Still no welded crank?

Ever see an S&S crank slip? 

[guydoc77]

[/quote]

Ever see an S&S crank slip?
[/quote]

yes

[Ohio HD]

yes

But enough stress against a welded crank, and it may twist as well. 

[VANAMAL]

Im intrested. Wonder what the otd price would be? Probly need tb,pipes,clutch,labor,tune

[hrdtail78]

$4,000 would be a low quote over the cost of the crate engine.  That's primary, labor, transmission, tuner, tune....out the door.

Does the 70mm tb come with the price?  The VFI would be something I would consider.  Especially since only one pipe is offered.  IME exhaust has more influence on air flow over timing.  To a point.

[HD/Wrench]

S&S has a video on cranks they are snapping to prove a point.  I could post up a picture of a REV perf crank we have with aluminum crank plug  Lets face it guys if you distort the plug as you press it in what good is it going to be??



https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLQmEl4PFFeWN4ZTcsMQdDAsADCVSmxYzc

[1FSTRK]

I got a look at the S&S dyno sheet on this motor today and the BVHOB 127ci beats it on HP/TQ from idle to 5250 rpm. Way to go Razorback Performance
S&S 

[HD/Wrench]

The 144 is a crate engine, the first one has not even fired up,...and  already being stated to produce numbers,....  or better a guess as to it will make.. It may on a hot dyno and that will only lead to the next thing and that is that I must have a bad 144 as so and so got this on his dyno..    Or that the tuner is the best ..    as he was able to get this from that.. Who ever does it not pointing fingers, so lets not go down that road.

Out the box engine with the right parts off the check list that will produce 155+ is not a bad running engine. Look at he amount of 150 + HP bikes out there.. its not common. Most had way more than bolt a engine into the frame and tune it , to get to the 150+ mark. 

[Merc63]

I'd like to see what this does in the hands of a good builder, probably 180-200hp, but we already have a 145" that's been around for ages, no one really runs them?

[strokerjlk]

It's already done 1.18 and 1.21 hp per ci as a crate .
Of course it didn't have a fatcat or dresser duals on it either .
That's not asking a lot out of a low compression B headed motor .

[hrdtail78]

I have seen 165 and 162 hp posted.  That's 1.145 and 1.125 per cubic inch and 1.048 for torque.  174 hp would be great if it was 1.2.  Depending on the dyno used.  It might show 1.3.

[No Cents]

Chris Rivas posted on Facebook his S&S 144 crate engine made 170 hp right out of the box...before adding a charger to it.

Ray

[1FSTRK]

The 144 is a crate engine, the first one has not even fired up,...and  already being stated to produce numbers,....  or better a guess as to it will make.. It may on a hot dyno and that will only lead to the next thing and that is that I must have a bad 144 as so and so got this on his dyno..    Or that the tuner is the best ..    as he was able to get this from that.. Who ever does it not pointing fingers, so lets not go down that road.

Out the box engine with the right parts off the check list that will produce 155+ is not a bad running engine. Look at he amount of 150 + HP bikes out there.. its not common. Most had way more than bolt a engine into the frame and tune it , to get to the 150+ mark.

No guess here, I was shown the dyno sheet supplied to the dealer by S&S. It was a Dyno-jet dyno run SAE correction of 1.01, smoothing on 5. The run started at 2100rpm, made 100tq at 2500, peak tq of 151 at 4000rpm, about 142/142 at 5250, peak hp of 162 at 6125rpm and about 160hp at 6450rpm when the run ended.
Bike was a 09FLHT according to the sheet and included all the extras recommended by S&S.
It was made clear that this is a race motor, and that like any race motor there will be vibration and mechanical noise (specified valve train and piston). Fuel mileage was quoted as 30-34mpg.
With the intake and exhaust packages from S&S the MSRP was north of $11,500 doing the math in my head.
Just as I said with the 120R this T144 motor if run as delivered will have a race motor personality yet make street hp.

The real difference here is I am a buyer and you are a seller.

[HD/Wrench]

I am not saying it will not make more power . Here is the test run that I think you where talking about ?? I agree very nice but its not north of 170 yet. Pipe and tune..  Ok so an 09 has the wider rear tire with more mass, so a 08 with a lighter rear tire may make more. But as we all know the transmissions in these bikes have been an issue when it comes to making power. So a trans with a billet door or even better a stronger trans all together may show some better numbers.  That is more so my point.

[strokerjlk]

I saw that one too . Ran out of injector .

[HD/Wrench]

I can tell you for a fact that it did not run out of injector.That run was made with a 12.15 GPS inj by racetronixs .

It is not running a monster cam. Not like its going to pull in the 6500+ range with the 635 cam and 10.47.1 comp ratio.

[strokerjlk]

Sorry I wasn't talking to you .

[HD/Wrench]

 regardless of who you where "talking " to the information you posted  is incorrect .

[strokerjlk]

regardless of who you where "talking " to the information you posted  is incorrect .

What information ?
The 170 and the 175 hp runs were with a undersized  Injector .
as I understand it,That was corrected before the 250 hp run

All the speculation and na say will be cleared up for me in a few weeks .
12.2 injector is way to big for this motor N/A    were they thinking

[NCTURBOS]

That run was made with a 12.15 GPS inj by racetronix...

12.2 injector is way to big for this motor N/A...

Huh, 96 lb./hr. injectors... Were/are they planning on some boost!?

K.

[turboprop]

regardless of who you where "talking " to the information you posted  is incorrect .

What information ?
The 170 and the 175 hp runs were with a undersized  Injector .
as I understand it,That was corrected before the 250 hp run

All the speculation and na say will be cleared up for me in a few weeks .
12.2 injector is way to big for this motor N/A    were they thinking

Jim,

I think everyone is anxious to see what this beast does on your dyno. I think you are correct about the injector. Will add, that I think it is very interesting (and telling) where these three motors were offered and wound up at. I am not surprised that one of the first units for sale was offered to Ray. Not trying to start a Steve Cole gang war, but what software do you plan to tune this with?

[No Cents]

 Randy has one of those new Power Visions to use as his tuner.
S&S sent him a base map to load into it for initial heat cycles.

Ray

[deathwish]

Weird how people can't figure that any engine someone produces can't be made to have more power. A factory offering is most times not a track offering. It may get a race label but if it was offered with 240 hp would you really think about putting it in your street bike. My friend James just finished up a 165mph quarter with the EVO style 140 and yet rode the bike in the Black Hills this fall. I'm sure his engine isn't in the same tune 140's or 145 were originally sold in. Once these are out let the fun begin. 

[jam65]

Conservative marketing by the producer. What you want to do to it above and beyond is the option of the consumer. That engine will spank with more $ and effort for sure.

[CowboyTutt]

Jam, I agree, it won't be long before someone dismantles the crate engine, adds custom pistons and a different camshaft and lights it up.  The stock 6 speed is going to have real issues with such a motor though.  Does anyone know if the B3 head is a CNC machined one or just cast?  -Tutt 

[No Cents]

Jam, I agree, it won't be long before someone dismantles the crate engine, adds custom pistons and a different camshaft and lights it up.  The stock 6 speed is going to have real issues with such a motor though.  Does anyone know if the B3 head is a CNC machined one or just cast?  -Tutt

now "A" ...who in the world would do something like that to a 144 engine   

Ray

[jam65]

What I meant was for a person to throw a bigger cam and compression into this monster. I sure wouldn't dismantle this engine beyond those two points.

[strokerjlk]

Jam, I agree, it won't be long before someone dismantles the crate engine, adds custom pistons and a different camshaft and lights it up.  The stock 6 speed is going to have real issues with such a motor though.  Does anyone know if the B3 head is a CNC machined one or just cast?  -Tutt

I have 100's of passes on my 6 sp . could explode next pass 
but I have been hearing this for 7 years now. whats the problem?
if you grab a hand full of clutch every time you shift .....maybe.
if you shift it right they hold up pretty damn well

[jam65]

  Just stay away from speed shifting.

[ThumperDeuce]

I've been very happy with my Fat5 to date.

http://www.aimag.com/2010/11/jims®-fat-5-transmission-and-the-world's-fastest-bagger/

[sfmichael]

I've been very happy with my Fat5 to date.

http://www.aimag.com/2010/11/jims®-fat-5-transmission-and-the-world's-fastest-bagger/

yes, but now we need a Fat6   

[HogBag]

North of 170 and he's adding a procharger. $hit 

[Don D]

What do you guys expect these motors to last? How many miles?

[hrdtail78]

I've been very happy with my Fat5 to date.

http://www.aimag.com/2010/11/jims®-fat-5-transmission-and-the-world's-fastest-bagger/

I agree but the engine is for 08 and up frames and the Fat5 is not.

[CowboyTutt]

What I meant was for a person to throw a bigger cam and compression into this monster. I sure wouldn't dismantle this engine beyond those two points.

Jam, I agree but different pistons is one way to do that, or maybe just mill the heads. 

I have 100's of passes on my 6 sp . could explode next pass 
but I have been hearing this for 7 years now. whats the problem?
if you grab a hand full of clutch every time you shift .....maybe.
if you shift it right they hold up pretty damn well

Stroker, I was thinking the trap door and maybe main bearing in the 6 speed?  Maybe its Baker propaganda but I will be doing the former in mine while its apart. 

More interesting, this is reportedly right from the S&S information sheet but have not confirmed it yet. 

Right off the information sheet from S&S:

Bad Habits of this Motor

·         Mechanical noise(valvetrain, piston noise)

·         Low speed throttle sensitivity (big intake and open exhaust make it tough to calibrate)

·         Vibration

·         Fuel Mileage – low 30's MPG

Maybe we are getting too excited about this motor and we should wait and see how they hold up?  The rod/stroke ratio is not great at 1.686-1.  A 103 has a ratio of 1.75-1.  Its possible to make a 131 square engine with a ratio of 1.75.  How reliable were the original 145 Tribute engines? I'm hearing not so good?   

-Tutt 

[hrdtail78]

More interesting, this is reportedly right from the S&S information sheet but have not confirmed it yet. 

Right off the information sheet from S&S:

Bad Habits of this Motor

·         Mechanical noise(valvetrain, piston noise)

·         Low speed throttle sensitivity (big intake and open exhaust make it tough to calibrate)

·         Vibration

·         Fuel Mileage – low 30's MPG

Maybe we are getting too excited about this motor and we should wait and see how they hold up?  The rod/stroke ratio is not great at 1.686-1.  A 103 has a ratio of 1.75-1.  Its possible to make a 131 square engine with a ratio of 1.75.  How reliable were the original 145 Tribute engines? I'm hearing not so good?   

-Tutt

Interesting stuff.  I think they went to the first guys that would pony up the cash.  That's it.

[strokerjlk]

What I meant was for a person to throw a bigger cam and compression into this monster. I sure wouldn't dismantle this engine beyond those two points.

Jam, I agree but different pistons is one way to do that, or maybe just mill the heads. 

I have 100's of passes on my 6 sp . could explode next pass 
but I have been hearing this for 7 years now. whats the problem?
if you grab a hand full of clutch every time you shift .....maybe.
if you shift it right they hold up pretty damn well

Stroker, I was thinking the trap door and maybe main bearing in the 6 speed?  Maybe its Baker propaganda but I will be doing the former in mine while its apart. 

More interesting, this is reportedly right from the S&S information sheet but have not confirmed it yet. 

Right off the information sheet from S&S:

Bad Habits of this Motor

·         Mechanical noise(valvetrain, piston noise)

·         Low speed throttle sensitivity (big intake and open exhaust make it tough to calibrate)

·         Vibration

·         Fuel Mileage – low 30's MPG

Maybe we are getting too excited about this motor and we should wait and see how they hold up?  The rod/stroke ratio is not great at 1.686-1.  A 103 has a ratio of 1.75-1.  Its possible to make a 131 square engine with a ratio of 1.75.  How reliable were the original 145 Tribute engines? I'm hearing not so good?   

-Tutt

Did Bert get the new 6 th gear bearing made yet ?
Maybe . But it wasn't out two months ago .
So even bakers trans use the same bearing .
I pulled mine at 60,000 to look . The new bearing felt worse than the one I took out .

I think S&S is covering their azz. Lots of guys think they want a big angry engine , but few actually know how to ride or tune one .

[strokerjlk]

Tutt .
I don't get the trapp door fear. I don't use the clutch to shift if I am hitting it hard .
Mine is still all stock . 

[Just Nick]

Stroker I spoke to Bert today and no the new bearing is not out they said they have been waiting on two different bearing mfgs in New York to figure it out and nothing yet so they are thinking about finding s different manufacture to make one.

[strokerjlk]

Stroker I spoke to Bert today and no the new bearing is not out they said they have been waiting on two different bearing mfgs in New York to figure it out and nothing yet so they are thinking about finding s different manufacture to make one.

Thanks for the update . I spoke with him at the Martin MI race .
He is bound and determined to get it made in the USA 
I want him to make a shift kill for the cruise drive , like he does for his transmissions .  Please!!!

[hrdtail78]

I think S&S is covering their azz. Lots of guys think they want a big angry engine , but few actually know how to ride or tune one .

Except Jim.  He know about every thing and the rest of us are lucky to have him here to show and teach us things.  Do you still adjust VE's to model the air flow through the engine using twin scan and MyTune or is there a different way with a bigger engine?

[WideWildGlide]

i have 38k on a 6 speed nothing other the question i did have the bolts come lose on the exhaust bracket and break part trap door ran in Bowling green with no issue other then having to readjusted the auto tensioner, how ever i did upgrade the trap door but as far gose im just going slap it back in with trap door upgrade and run it i worry about it when it breaks or become a issue

[Don D]

  Its possible to make a 131 square engine with a ratio of 1.75

Yes with a stock rod length.  Go up in length and the ratio gets better.  Smokey used the rod ratio argument in the context of horsepower. In these motors I feel the argument is very relevant related to the expected lifecycle. Or we will need to add new barrels to the routine maintenance list, especially in this instance. Their short skirt slipper piston doesn't help anything either. At least the 120r has a robust piston and ring package.

[BVHOG]

Wow, lots of hype over this new motor, so what are we going to put this in? Going to take a hell of a good clutch, probably a chain drive, better swingarm bushing setup. I'm finding out the 02 Chassis is not remotely up to the task just yet of handling my 127 much less throwing another 17cubes of torque at it. Hope the newer Chassis is better.  All this stuff an then hope the tire is the first thing to break loose.

[CowboyTutt]

BV, by No Cents previous 2nd hand reports, the 142 engine breaks the tire loose very easily on a Bagger in 3rd gear IIRC when you crank it up.  No Cents, please correct me if I'm wrong.  I don't want to promote inaccurate information.  Most people are not going to be ready to handle that.  For some, it will force them to become a better rider and they will survive.  Better tires than touring tires is going to be a necessity and a fact of life.  For others, they will crash and they and their bike will be permanently damaged.  Engines of this nature are not for the inexperienced and I would not hand over the keys to someone to ride one who wasn't a real veteran of super high performance engines.  Its like handing an Uzi to a small child like some have done.  Stupid, stupid stuff and people die.  I can remember when my 99 Suzuki Hayabusa first came out.  There was a young man in San Marcos, CA who really wanted one.  First time rider.  They were unwilling to sell it to him, but he kept pressing the dealership. No laws against it.  They eventually caved.  He broadsided a van at excessive speed and died within ONE WEEK of purchasing that bike.  The TQ this motor produces is going to require an advanced rider to manage it.  The engine and driveline is not the only durability factor here, the rider also has to be ready to handle the load.  -Tutt     

[Just Nick]

Tutt you are completely correct. My S&S rep and I were talking about that same thing with this engine a couple days ago.

[jam65]

The problem here is some people have more money than riding experience and that will get you in trouble faster than your bike is.
I posted on Dragos recent boosted bike in the dyno forum about street manners on a high horse build of his and didn't get a reply from him. Shizz comes up quick with these power numbers and you better have the skill set to keep you above ground.

[WideWildGlide]

i think one major add on that should be require, that over looked on almost anything high performance  is Brakes, but i to like to live dangerous

[No Cents]

Andy...my S&S connection did tell me that.
I don't want to post the exact words he told me...but he said an inexperienced rider could get  in trouble real fast with this power plant.
It's not an engine for an amateur rider.

Ray

[Don D]

But there is a way to get useable high power. A 70mm throttle body is not on the parts list however even if it costs a few upstairs.

[Durwood]

It's one thing to have a bike that will get sideways when you want it to, but quite another to have one that will get sideways when you don't, ..LOL

These Harley chassis have limitations as Stroker and Bob have discovered, I personally like excessive power, as stated it's all in how a guy handles the power, or not.

When we were drag racing (cars), overpowering the chassis was a common practice, not saying a good one, just common, a guy spends a wad of $$$ to pick up some numbers, then has to de-tune it in order to get it to hook and stay hooked, been there a few times myself

I am happy for anyone that has the opportunity to get one of these beasts, just use caution when twisting the wick, and keep the shiny side up.

[build it]

But there is a way to get useable high power. A 70mm throttle body is not on the parts list however even if it costs a few upstairs.

[1FSTRK]

Powerful Sportsters have been around for years, and I won't even go into the import sport bikes as an example. Both have way better hp to weight ratios than this motor in a bagger.
As for the 70mm throttle hog, if it is touchy get a better tuner.

[choseneasy]

If it scares you , you are too old.
  I would hope they are being bought for the adrenaline rush- not bragging rights. It would be a waste to run this thing as a touring motor.
JMO

[citabria]

If it scares you , you are too old.
  I would hope they are being bought for the adrenaline rush- not bragging rights. It would be a waste to run this thing as a touring motor.
JMO

It's being offered in granite for the CVO crowd, sound like bragging rights.

[FlaHeatWave]

If it scares you , you are too old.
  I would hope they are being bought for the adrenaline rush- not bragging rights. It would be a waste to run this thing as a touring motor.
JMO

Maybe so, but it is a blast to roll into a big inch (touring) bagger and rocket effortlessly from 80 to 130, still pulling hard way past the pin... 

[choseneasy]

I would say that cracking it to 130 is being used by someone who appreciates the power.   

[joelp34252]

WoW  Are  you guys really taking your batwings with stock windshields above and beyond 130?  I get to 120 and thats enough for me. The aerodynamics are so poor and the frame so flexible that I dont feel confident to go any faster.

Joel 2001 FLHT

[04 SE Deuce]

Ahh,  bagger swagger adds to the thrill/rush.   Rick

[strokerjlk]

WoW  Are  you guys really taking your batwings with stock windshields above and beyond 130?  I get to 120 and thats enough for me. The aerodynamics are so poor and the frame so flexible that I dont feel confident to go any faster.

Joel 2001 FLHT

Stay in 5 th gear on a 6 sp. And once you push through 122 mph, it's all good .
If your out of power at 115-122 and accelerating slowly, it can be a tuff transisition .
That won't be a problem with a beast of a motor like this .

[joe_lyons]

09+ frames do better and 14+ even better

[HighLiner]

09+ frames do better and 14+ even better

What have they changed from the '09 to the '14s?

[04 SE Deuce]

Bigger forkies...larger diameter.   Rick

[joe_lyons]

They also added support to the motor mounts.

[PoorUB]

WoW  Are  you guys really taking your batwings with stock windshields above and beyond 130? 

I have had my 2010 Ultra up to 125 MPH a couple times. Pulls nice at that speed with the 107". Speed read by a GPS, plus the speedometer is corrected so it is pretty accurate too. Most touring bikes the speedo is reads high by about 6%, so guys saying that have been running 130 are likely doing closer to 122 MPH.

[strokerjlk]

yes...up in Paradise I believe.

Ray

finished

[hrdtail78]

Nice cool air around here.  Got any uncorrected?

[strokerjlk]

Nice cool air around here.  Got any uncorrected?

you don't have a clue 

[hrdtail78]

About what?

[hrdtail78]

you don't have a clue 

Is that an insult Jim?  Are you assuming something about me once again?  I have been seeing 98-97 correction factor this week.  I figured the uncorrected would be the holy f%*k sheet.

I got contacted yesterday by one of my customers ready to purchase.  So, thanks for posting.

[strokerjlk]

you don't have a clue 

Is that an insult Jim?  Are you assuming something about me once again?  I have been seeing 98-97 correction factor this week.  I figured the uncorrected would be the holy f%*k sheet.

I got contacted yesterday by one of my customers ready to purchase.  So, thanks for posting.

I would never insult you.
Cool ..... We can have two "potential" threads and one that backed out .
I just wanted to update this one .

[WideWildGlide]

hey dont make me hunt yall down and hug yall both and i will do it in public!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[pddredduece]

Does S&S make crate motors to fit a 2005 Deuce. I have a 107" now thinking about going bigger. I want more HP&TQ

[hotbo]

No crate motor in the B motor which Fing sucks 

[1FSTRK]

Because "my guy at S&S" is really just me reading here on HTT thought I would ask if there has been any new info on the heads for this motor.
Many have posted or PMed that they would be getting flow numbers, pictures of the ports and combustion chamber, CC's for the important parts and etc.
Just checking in to see if any progress has been made.

[doubletrouble]

Im with you steve on this one - my 124 is stable - decent mileage depending on what map i have in it at that time - and this 124 could give a damn about being doubled up or not - still absolutely hauls ass . You can only get so much of it to the ground anyways , and thats what it comes down to. Im not at all worried about these 144ers - line up next to me - slip just a little bit and ill show you a tailight .

[groundhog143]

 

[1FSTRK]

I'm with you groundhog144
If ever the saying applied

Ignorance is bliss

[sfmichael]

the rider does make a HELL of a difference 

but awfully hard to overcome a 40 hp advantage   

can be done though...but not on a regular basis

there's always somebody faster...

[hrdtail78]

Im with you steve on this one - my 124 is stable - decent mileage depending on what map i have in it at that time - and this 124 could give a damn about being doubled up or not - still absolutely hauls ass . You can only get so much of it to the ground anyways , and thats what it comes down to. Im not at all worried about these 144ers - line up next to me - slip just a little bit and ill show you a tailight .

  Having the coin to buy a big power engine is not the same as having the skill set to use it.  Then there is also the limitation of the chassis.  Reminds me of the time I lined up against big muscle big block w/ my 95cuin.  I made it to Sauget and he made it upside down in the ditch.  So, the real way to tell is not by measuring wee wee's on the net or calling people out.  It is actually showing up and twisting throttle that gets it done for me.  I don't race dyno sheets no matter how inflated.  I race on wheels.

[sfmichael]

Im with you steve on this one - my 124 is stable - decent mileage depending on what map i have in it at that time - and this 124 could give a damn about being doubled up or not - still absolutely hauls ass . You can only get so much of it to the ground anyways , and thats what it comes down to. Im not at all worried about these 144ers - line up next to me - slip just a little bit and ill show you a tailight .

  Having the coin to buy a big power engine is not the same as having the skill set to use it.  Then there is also the limitation of the chassis.  Reminds me of the time I lined up against big muscle big block w/ my 95cuin.  I made it to Sauget and he made it upside down in the ditch.  So, the real way to tell is not by measuring wee wee's on the net or calling people out.  It is actually showing up and twisting throttle that gets it done for me.  I don't race dyno sheets no matter how inflated.  I race on wheels.

10-4 

[groundhog143]

 

Im with you steve on this one - my 124 is stable - decent mileage depending on what map i have in it at that time - and this 124 could give a damn about being doubled up or not - still absolutely hauls ass . You can only get so much of it to the ground anyways , and thats what it comes down to. Im not at all worried about these 144ers - line up next to me - slip just a little bit and ill show you a tailight .

  Having the coin to buy a big power engine is not the same as having the skill set to use it.  Then there is also the limitation of the chassis.  Reminds me of the time I lined up against big muscle big block w/ my 95cuin.  I made it to Sauget and he made it upside down in the ditch.  So, the real way to tell is not by measuring wee wee's on the net or calling people out.  It is actually showing up and twisting throttle that gets it done for me.  I don't race dyno sheets no matter how inflated.  I race on wheels.

.   

[1FSTRK]

And any real racer knows on any given day he can be beat by himself or someone with less power but he also knows that is not the norm and so he will take all the power he can get. Funny how it is often the guys with less power that do all the bragging and claim it is never just sour grapes.
Ever wonder how many guys out there have a bar stool at home to sit on while using their computer?

[hrdtail78]

Im with you steve on this one - my 124 is stable - decent mileage depending on what map i have in it at that time - and this 124 could give a damn about being doubled up or not - still absolutely hauls ass . You can only get so much of it to the ground anyways , and thats what it comes down to. Im not at all worried about these 144ers - line up next to me - slip just a little bit and ill show you a tailight .

  Having the coin to buy a big power engine is not the same as having the skill set to use it.  Then there is also the limitation of the chassis.  Reminds me of the time I lined up against big muscle big block w/ my 95cuin.  I made it to Sauget and he made it upside down in the ditch.  So, the real way to tell is not by measuring wee wee's on the net or calling people out.  It is actually showing up and twisting throttle that gets it done for me.  I don't race dyno sheets no matter how inflated.  I race on wheels.

.   

What was the 1/4 mile time on that 143?  What about 60 ft times?  How did the 180 tire do?  What about 1/8 mile?  Or realistically.  You have no baseline to go on and you have no idea what it can or cannot do.

What I find hysterical is the tall boots that have been needed here on this forum lately.  I guess it's the start of winter.  The keyboard racers are out.

[1FSTRK]

You may have mistakenly posted to the wrong thread. This thread is
"S&S 144 engine Specs"
Not sure what your posts have to do with it.

[hrdtail78]

The Specs of the 144/143 have been covered pages ago.

[1FSTRK]

I brought this thread to the top this morning with my follow up questions on the heads, after that the thing just tanked. No good reason to ruin a thread on a particular subject with all the off subject winter time trash talk. Start a thread on trash or street racing or drag racing and maybe others will come key board race with you but once you drag a thread down we never seem to get back to the answers to any legitimate questions. All the spec questions have not been answer, you have a shop, you tune, you race, if you want to post the answers to my real spec questions I am all ears. The other guy is new here but you are better than this.

[strokerjlk]

And any real racer knows on any given day he can be beat by himself or someone with less power but he also knows that is not the norm and so he will take all the power he can get. Funny how it is often the guys with less power that do all the bragging and claim it is never just sour grapes.
Ever wonder how many guys out there have a bar stool at home to sit on while using their computer?

Or have never went a round in their life . Much less seen the winners circle .
Got a race bike that is a show bike . Or got a show bike they claim is a race bike .
Couldn't cut a light or find the groove if they had too. But the run a pretty good suck.

[groundhog143]

 

[hrdtail78]

I was just agreeing with doubletrouble there, and stating that the motorcycle with the most HP doesn't always win.  There is more to it than that.

This basically covers it. 

Or have never went a round in their life . Much less seen the winners circle .
Got a race bike that is a show bike . Or got a show bike they claim is a race bike .
Couldn't cut a light or find the groove if they had too. But the run a pretty good suck.

But your right.  If I got in the way of you getting your info.  I apologize.

[strokerjlk]

S&S oil pump set up no cams for it other than what S&S has to offer. You could remove all of it and buy new pump plate cam cover etc.. More power for what. You got guys out there that cannot figure out how to make 140 hp work with out burning out the clutch, tearing up drive train parts..

Then let the dyno games start  as not like it's a mystery some drums are reading higher than others,....or maybe race track results, who knows ,

But if I can pull a 7.30 in the 1/8 on a  bagger with a basic out the box S&S engine with approx  20 less hp and almost the reduction on tq .. I am betting that bike with a rider that can figure out you dont need max rpm to launch and not burn down parts will be a 10 second member or high 6 if its the 1/8 mile crowd.. 

high 9's  and low  6's .
smoking the clutch sucks ,but it happens. riding home with a squawking clutch is no fun.


anyone have flow sheets on the B3 Heads yet ? its been over a year now

[1FSTRK]

   Production   Production   
   Front Head   Front Head   
   CNC                 CNC   
   Intake                 Exhaust   
   Radiused Inlet   Exhaust Pipe   
   2.300" Valve   1.800" Valve   
   2.1" **                1.6" **   approximate seat ID- varies with 3-d cnc machining
Valve Lift   Flow CFM   Flow CFM   
0.05   38.5                26.1   
0.10   75.9                51.4
0.20   154                106.5
0.30   233.3                154.4   
0.40   294                   194.4   
0.50   328.5                223.5   
0.60   347.4                248.6   
0.65   353.8                256.9   
0.70   358.6                265.6   
0.80   365.9     

[strokerjlk]

   Production   Production   
   Front Head   Front Head   
   CNC                 CNC   
   Intake                 Exhaust   
   Radiused Inlet   Exhaust Pipe   
   2.300" Valve   1.800" Valve   
   2.1" **                1.6" **   approximate seat ID- varies with 3-d cnc machining
Valve Lift   Flow CFM   Flow CFM   
0.05   38.5                26.1   
0.10   75.9                51.4
0.20   154                106.5
0.30   233.3                154.4   
0.40   294                   194.4   
0.50   328.5                223.5   
0.60   347.4                248.6   
0.65   353.8                256.9   
0.70   358.6                265.6   
0.80   365.9     

  thanks Eric

[No Cents]

   Production   Production   
   Front Head   Front Head   
   CNC                 CNC   
   Intake                 Exhaust   
   Radiused Inlet   Exhaust Pipe   
   2.300" Valve   1.800" Valve   
   2.1" **                1.6" **   approximate seat ID- varies with 3-d cnc machining
Valve Lift   Flow CFM   Flow CFM   
0.05   38.5                26.1   
0.10   75.9                51.4
0.20   154                106.5
0.30   233.3                154.4   
0.40   294                   194.4   
0.50   328.5                223.5   
0.60   347.4                248.6   
0.65   353.8                256.9   
0.70   358.6                265.6   
0.80   365.9     

  thanks Eric

  Jim...I know a guy that has a set of heads that flow 410 cfm's @ .700" lift that is just a phone call away. 

Ray

[TorQuePimp]

   Production   Production   
   Front Head   Front Head   
   CNC                 CNC   
   Intake                 Exhaust   
   Radiused Inlet   Exhaust Pipe   
   2.300" Valve   1.800" Valve   
   2.1" **                1.6" **   approximate seat ID- varies with 3-d cnc machining
Valve Lift   Flow CFM   Flow CFM   
0.05   38.5                26.1   
0.10   75.9                51.4
0.20   154                106.5
0.30   233.3                154.4   
0.40   294                   194.4   
0.50   328.5                223.5   
0.60   347.4                248.6   
0.65   353.8                256.9   
0.70   358.6                265.6   
0.80   365.9     

  Would be impossible to give seat ID as finished, they are non concentric

The CNC program S&S runs on the heads runs all the way down the short turn and past the bottom 60 deg angle on the valve job

  They do no measure even close to the same at 12/6 or 9/3

  I don't know what they use to flow the heads....I use a delrin ring ring with a 1/2" radius

.4-288.7

.5-322

.6-343.9

.7-350.2

.8-359.8

[CowboyTutt]

I think most head porters already know this, but the TB or even the heads is not the problem here.  It's the intake manifold.  I have a set of B2 CNC heads that flow just as well as the B3 heads after a "buff and fluff" but with smaller intake and exhaust valves (2.2 and 1.7).  The heads flow very well and more than sufficient to feed the motor in question but if the intake manifold restricts things too much, that can be a bottleneck for sure.  I think we need to be careful of "bench racing" on a flow chart.  That hardly tells the whole story.  The whole story will be how the build runs with all the assembled parts as a combination.   Regards,  -Tutt 

[HD/Wrench]

S&S oil pump set up no cams for it other than what S&S has to offer. You could remove all of it and buy new pump plate cam cover etc.. More power for what. You got guys out there that cannot figure out how to make 140 hp work with out burning out the clutch, tearing up drive train parts..

Then let the dyno games start  as not like it's a mystery some drums are reading higher than others,....or maybe race track results, who knows ,

But if I can pull a 7.30 in the 1/8 on a  bagger with a basic out the box S&S engine with approx  20 less hp and almost the reduction on tq .. I am betting that bike with a rider that can figure out you dont need max rpm to launch and not burn down parts will be a 10 second member or high 6 if its the 1/8 mile crowd.. 

high 9's  and low  6's .
smoking the clutch sucks ,but it happens. riding home with a squawking clutch is no fun.





I agree that the launch is going to be the crucial deal and for a guy like that rides the bike and really does care if I am beating the clutch vs a bike that is going to used for a magazine deal and so what if they burn up a few parts are two completely different things. 

As for my clutch I have switched over from carbonite ( black)  to kelvar  ( red) .. Will see how that works. Its not burning the pack like I thought ,  Pack looks decent but its engaging smoothly at all..    Barnett has been great with this and sent me two new  complete packs ( steel and fiber)  to test.. 


Myself would love to buy a 143 and drop it into a road king , extend the swing arm and have it for a pro street style mainly drag bike.  TOO many irons in the fire at this point.. between shop , the truck, bike and then LIFE   

[RevFastEddy]

That's going to be about 670 lift on those stilts, isn't it?  They must feel very confident in their valve train for long term use.  -Tutt

Definition of long term:   The warranty is 6 months.... so long term would be 6 months plus 1 day..

[joe_lyons]

Maybe two days

[CowboyTutt]

That's going to be about 670 lift on those stilts, isn't it?  They must feel very confident in their valve train for long term use.  -Tutt

Definition of long term:   The warranty is 6 months.... so long term would be 6 months plus 1 day..

I hope that Dorfman sees this post, but IIRC he told me that the S&S spring pack on my "as delivered" CNC B2 heads was almost 600 lbs at the valve seat.  Not sure what the B3 heads are running in the 143 but doubt it is different.  That is not a recipe for valve train longevity.  Don swapped out some Woods dual springs that will get the job done very well but not torture the valve train. 

Don, please correct me if I'm wrong as I don't want to spread inaccurate data.  Sending you a text Pard. 

Thanks and Regards,   

-Tutt 

[HD/Wrench]

I would bet that he was saying on the cam nose ( max lift) . 600 on the seat would mean 900+ open.

[CowboyTutt]

Your probably right Steve.  I've notified Dorfman for some clarity here.  Current valve springs are W188 with S&S TI retainers as best as I can tell from invoice.  Current pressure at the seat is just under 200. 

Thank you for your help. 

Regards,

-Tutt 

[Don D]

The B2 heads came with triple springs that were 235 seat 650 open. Trimmed that back a bit.

[CowboyTutt]

Thanks for the prompt response Don.  I'm sorry for my inaccurate post but knew you would correct it.  Everything about my build with you has been about making incremental changes for more power and longevity.  I'm sure it will pay off in the end.  Thank you Sir! 

-A- 

[Buffalo]

My 124 has the triple springs, 640 cams,  rated for 173 seated, 430 over the nose if memory serves. 2" intakes. Would a 2.3" intake really require springs as heavy as 600lbs over the nose?? I would have thought this to be the perfect place to run behives.  just writing out loud   Buffalo

[Don D]

The B2 springs shipped are for the larger spring pack, not the same as what is used on Super Stock heads.

[CowboyTutt]

Buffalo, I questioned the same thing to Dorfman about my build about using beehives with similar rocker ratios (1.7 Baisley corrected on intake, stock ratio on exhaust), and timing and lifter marks.  Not the best way to go as I hope they can explain. 

Regards,

-Tutt 

[Don D]

It's the perfect place not to run beehives. None have the length and proper spring rate.

[strokerjlk]

That's going to be about 670 lift on those stilts, isn't it?  They must feel very confident in their valve train for long term use.  -Tutt

Definition of long term:   The warranty is 6 months.... so long term would be 6 months plus 1 day..

I hope that Dorfman sees this post, but IIRC he told me that the S&S spring pack on my "as delivered" CNC B2 heads was almost 600 lbs at the valve seat.  Not sure what the B3 heads are running in the 143 but doubt it is different.  That is not a recipe for valve train longevity.  Don swapped out some Woods dual springs that will get the job done very well but not torture the valve train. 

Don, please correct me if I'm wrong as I don't want to spread inaccurate data.  Sending you a text Pard. 

Thanks and Regards,   

-Tutt

what makes you say that? now you will never know for yourself.
how many miles does one have to run in order to have "longevity" ?
i put 45,000 miles on the SE heads with over 500 lbs of nose pressure. some of the guys that said it should not/could not   be done "because of "longevity" are still bench building their engines in the meantime.
this is exactly how internet myths get started. do it, run it, test it,before you make statement like this. because S&S ALREADY HAS.

[sfmichael]

That's going to be about 670 lift on those stilts, isn't it?  They must feel very confident in their valve train for long term use.  -Tutt

Definition of long term:   The warranty is 6 months.... so long term would be 6 months plus 1 day..

I hope that Dorfman sees this post, but IIRC he told me that the S&S spring pack on my "as delivered" CNC B2 heads was almost 600 lbs at the valve seat.  Not sure what the B3 heads are running in the 143 but doubt it is different.  That is not a recipe for valve train longevity.  Don swapped out some Woods dual springs that will get the job done very well but not torture the valve train. 

Don, please correct me if I'm wrong as I don't want to spread inaccurate data.  Sending you a text Pard. 

Thanks and Regards,   

-Tutt

what makes you say that? now you will never know for yourself.
how many miles does one have to run in order to have "longevity" ?
i put 45,000 miles on the SE heads with over 500 lbs of nose pressure. some of the guys that said it should not/could not   be done "because of "longevity" are still bench building their engines in the meantime.
this is exactly how internet myths get started. do it, run it, test it,before you make statement like this. because S&S ALREADY HAS.

great point