thinking...square

[jmorton10]

   The most fun I've had with my 01' Dyna involved a 95" kit, some J&E 8.5/1 forged pistons, SE204 cams and a Magnacharger

I ran a Magnacharger on a 101" motor and absolutely loved the thing.

Unfortunately, I sold the blower to fund another project & have regretted it ever since.  If I could find another setup like that at a reasonable price point I would buy it immediately.

When I bought my Magna setup, a buddy of mine bought two of them.  The SOB still have one of them brand new in the box but absolutely refuses to sell it to me!!

~John

[No Cents]

 here is a 131"er that Wes Brown of Cycle-rama built and tuned for a customer.
Impressive...to say the least...even if it is a STD graph.

[attach=0]

Ray

[1FSTRK]

if you don't mind Eric...let me know what Vic is using for pistons and cylinders in the one he is building. I want to look at all my options before choosing.
Is Vic using the 4 3/8" bore T2 cases?

Ray

Stopped to see Vic Saturday and got you some info on the 131, turns out to be a rebuild not a build. It started as a Jim's motor, cases are repaired and printed, crank lightened, balanced and welded. They are reusing the Jim's cylinders. Wiseco or CP pistons, he has both on the shelf but has not settled on which will be used and did not elaborate as to what the deciding factor would be. CCP will be under 200psi. Heads are based off B2 castings and the throttle body started as a 70mm Throttle hog. Air cleaner was machined for this set up and K&N supplied the element. No word on the final cams, he will be starting with three test cams that he has and possibly a forth custom grind based on the testing. The first test pipe is a D&D with modified head pipes that the customer had on the original engine, and then some runs with the shop test pipes before the final exhaust is tuned to the final cam.

[kd]

That run stops at 5800 RPM. Nice power without having to reach for it.  Wes knows how to get the power out.

[1FSTRK]

here is a 131"er that Wes Brown of Cycle-rama built and tuned for a customer.
Impressive...to say the least...even if it is a STD graph.


Ray

Stout run. Did you get the specs on that one?

[No Cents]

no spec's given besides it's a 131...all's I know is Wes did the heads and built and tuned the engine. He said there was more left in it and to note where he only pulled it to.
I'm pretty sure it has the same cams in it that I currently have in my 124 right now...with the addition of the 1.725 stilts I have on the intake sides.

Ray

[hrdtail78]

Yes, they are finned and painted black.  They are pretty simple.  Four holes in bottom and four threaded holes in top.  Straight, stable bore down the middle.  External oil returns.

[No Cents]

have you noticed any addition heat build up using the ductile cylinders...over say cylinders like the new style S&S?
is it a bar hopper...or something you have put some long distance mile days on before?
some pic's of your oil lines would be appreciated.

Ray

[turboprop]

have you noticed any addition heat build up using the ductile cylinders...over say cylinders like the new style S&S?
is it a bar hopper...or something you have put some long distance mile days on before?
some pic's of your oil lines would be appreciated.

Ray

Ray, here is a picture of one of my engines with external oil return lines and Axtell base stud style ductile cylinders. While not a touring bike, my FXR does see some very long, cross country, group rides. These rides are often times in a large group where break downs and excuses are not an option. Has also done considerable traffic duty in places like Daytona, Laughlin, etc. Heat from the ductile cylinders has never been an issue. YMMV.

[No Cents]

 thanks Ed! 
nice pictures. Does Axtell make them in a silver polished finish like the S&S cylinders?
I still haven't ruled out using a finned ductile cylinder. I do like that they make for a more stable top end. Heat build up is my main concern.
The extra weight of them isn't an issue because it will be in a land barge and not a racer. I just don't want any issues happening if I ran 400- 500 miles one day and then all the sudden hit bumper to bumper traffic and I can't get off on an exit ramp for miles. I've been looking at the Jim's cooling fan that replaces the horn. This might be a good option to go along with ductile cylinders to help cool down the cylinders and heads if you run into a bad situation.

Ray

[turboprop]

Ray, Axtell makes them in ductile irion. Standard finish is black paint, but Ron will put whatever finish on them you want. I have seen guys have them ceracoated, but not sure how that dissipates heat.

Instead of comments from the Cheers crowd here, I recommend you call Ron directly.

[hrdtail78]

 

Well, there you go.  Make a phone call.  Because any other input besides from one of the guys making these would be worthless.

[Burch753]

Holy freaking cow! those iron cylinders are beautiful! I have been dreaming about some... This just makes me want some more!

[gordonr]

have you noticed any addition heat build up using the ductile cylinders...over say cylinders like the new style S&S?
is it a bar hopper...or something you have put some long distance mile days on before?
some pic's of your oil lines would be appreciated.

Ray

Ray, here is a picture of one of my engines with external oil return lines and Axtell base stud style ductile cylinders. While not a touring bike, my FXR does see some very long, cross country, group rides. These rides are often times in a large group where break downs and excuses are not an option. Has also done considerable traffic duty in places like Daytona, Laughlin, etc. Heat from the ductile cylinders has never been an issue. YMMV.

Do your oil returns feed back into the original case feeds to the cam chest? I was planning to go into the tappet covers or the bottom of the cam cover on my build but your setup looks much cleaner.

[turboprop]

have you noticed any addition heat build up using the ductile cylinders...over say cylinders like the new style S&S?
is it a bar hopper...or something you have put some long distance mile days on before?
some pic's of your oil lines would be appreciated.

Ray

The oil returns return through the oem holes in the cases. A consciousness decision was made to do it this way. Had nothing to do with appearances and everything to do with wanting the return oil inside the crank case. If this were a track only bike, I would have returned them into the cam chest, but being a street engine, and an Evo, this puts more oil onto the piston skirts and has to improve longevity. A TC with piston oilers, would be different. Ron Dickey at Axtell can set them up however the builder wants them.

Ray, here is a picture of one of my engines with external oil return lines and Axtell base stud style ductile cylinders. While not a touring bike, my FXR does see some very long, cross country, group rides. These rides are often times in a large group where break downs and excuses are not an option. Has also done considerable traffic duty in places like Daytona, Laughlin, etc. Heat from the ductile cylinders has never been an issue. YMMV.

Do your oil returns feed back into the original case feeds to the cam chest? I was planning to go into the tappet covers or the bottom of the cam cover on my build but your setup looks much cleaner.

[No Cents]

I like what Ed did with his oil return lines.
I was thinking of doing them this way returning the oil back into the lifter blocks...but now I'll have to do more research on which way would be best if I decided to use a ductile cylinder.

[attach=0]

[attach=1]

Ray

[gordonr]

The oil returns return through the oem holes in the cases. A consciousness decision was made to do it this way. Had nothing to do with appearances and everything to do with wanting the return oil inside the crank case. If this were a track only bike, I would have returned them into the cam chest, but being a street engine, and an Evo, this puts more oil onto the piston skirts and has to improve longevity. A TC with piston oilers, would be different. Ron Dickey at Axtell can set them up however the builder wants them.


Thanks for the reply. I spent a good part of a week drilling and tapping making fixtures to determine with a vacuum gauge the best spot for the oil returns from the heads to exit to. I was using S&S's TC oil pump assembly at the time and inputting the returns directly under the return pump gear as it was the best @ 2-3". Now in my current build I'm using the Thayer pump (couldn't get cam blanks for a custom grind on the S&S pump platform) and have been revisiting ideas not knowing if I can get the same outcome as the S&S pump gave.

Ray, I'm going the block the head vents and possibly vent from the lifter covers with a check valve. Also running externals limits the bake time the oil goes through, returning back to the came chest. Which is a good thing!

[hrdtail78]

Good info Gordonr.  Looks like the cheers crowd has better info than the swingers.  I made the same choice based on same factors of where my lines went.

See turboprop.  These things have been around for quite some time.  There is no new info about them.  It's not a big secrete.  And I am sure. Randy has and can give the same info, if not more.

[turboprop]

The oil returns return through the oem holes in the cases. A consciousness decision was made to do it this way. Had nothing to do with appearances and everything to do with wanting the return oil inside the crank case. If this were a track only bike, I would have returned them into the cam chest, but being a street engine, and an Evo, this puts more oil onto the piston skirts and has to improve longevity. A TC with piston oilers, would be different. Ron Dickey at Axtell can set them up however the builder wants them.


Thanks for the reply. I spent a good part of a week drilling and tapping making fixtures to determine with a vacuum gauge the best spot for the oil returns from the heads to exit to. I was using S&S's TC oil pump assembly at the time and inputting the returns directly under the return pump gear as it was the best @ 2-3". Now in my current build I'm using the Thayer pump (couldn't get cam blanks for a custom grind on the S&S pump platform) and have been revisiting ideas not knowing if I can get the same outcome as the S&S pump gave.

Ray, I'm going the block the head vents and possibly vent from the lifter covers with a check valve. Also running externals limits the bake time the oil goes through, returning back to the came chest. Which is a good thing!

I like the idea of venting through the lifter covers. Saw several TC based bikes at Bonneville that were plumbed like that but they also vented through the heads (Also w/check valves).

The return lines on my engine are 6AN, but I started out with 3AN lines. As part of a science experiment, I replaced the black hose with clear and could see oil pulsing up and down in the return lines. I did the same thing with clear 6AN hose and did not witness the same pulsing. The oil just simply drained down the line. The TC handles internal vacume and pressure differently, but I suspect the oil in the return lines would behave similarly. 

[clawdog60]

have you noticed any addition heat build up using the ductile cylinders...over say cylinders like the new style S&S?
is it a bar hopper...or something you have put some long distance mile days on before?
some pic's of your oil lines would be appreciated.

Ray

The oil returns return through the oem holes in the cases. A consciousness decision was made to do it this way. Had nothing to do with appearances and everything to do with wanting the return oil inside the crank case. If this were a track only bike, I would have returned them into the cam chest, but being a street engine, and an Evo, this puts more oil onto the piston skirts and has to improve longevity. A TC with piston oilers, would be different. Ron Dickey at Axtell can set them up however the builder wants them.

Ray, here is a picture of one of my engines with external oil return lines and Axtell base stud style ductile cylinders. While not a touring bike, my FXR does see some very long, cross country, group rides. These rides are often times in a large group where break downs and excuses are not an option. Has also done considerable traffic duty in places like Daytona, Laughlin, etc. Heat from the ductile cylinders has never been an issue. YMMV.

Do your oil returns feed back into the original case feeds to the cam chest? I was planning to go into the tappet covers or the bottom of the cam cover on my build but your setup looks much cleaner.

Now I got an itch to put a similar one in my FXR!

[gordonr]

The oil returns return through the oem holes in the cases. A consciousness decision was made to do it this way. Had nothing to do with appearances and everything to do with wanting the return oil inside the crank case. If this were a track only bike, I would have returned them into the cam chest, but being a street engine, and an Evo, this puts more oil onto the piston skirts and has to improve longevity. A TC with piston oilers, would be different. Ron Dickey at Axtell can set them up however the builder wants them.


Thanks for the reply. I spent a good part of a week drilling and tapping making fixtures to determine with a vacuum gauge the best spot for the oil returns from the heads to exit to. I was using S&S's TC oil pump assembly at the time and inputting the returns directly under the return pump gear as it was the best @ 2-3". Now in my current build I'm using the Thayer pump (couldn't get cam blanks for a custom grind on the S&S pump platform) and have been revisiting ideas not knowing if I can get the same outcome as the S&S pump gave.

Ray, I'm going the block the head vents and possibly vent from the lifter covers with a check valve. Also running externals limits the bake time the oil goes through, returning back to the came chest. Which is a good thing!

I like the idea of venting through the lifter covers. Saw several TC based bikes at Bonneville that were plumbed like that but they also vented through the heads (Also w/check valves).

The return lines on my engine are 6AN, but I started out with 3AN lines. As part of a science experiment, I replaced the black hose with clear and could see oil pulsing up and down in the return lines. I did the same thing with clear 6AN hose and did not witness the same pulsing. The oil just simply drained down the line. The TC handles internal vacume and pressure differently, but I suspect the oil in the return lines would behave similarly.

With the TC I found if there isn't any crank case volume flowing up to the rocker boxes to find an exit the oil returns wont have any issues in draining. The idea of an "oversized" oil return is a good idea to. Also had thoughts about making a simple cooler for the external returns to pass thru as well.

[hrdtail78]

Are you or anybody else doing anything to help pressure and venting in the crank to cam chest?

[gordonr]

Are you or anybody else doing anything to help pressure and venting in the crank to cam chest?

Using the reed valve on INA of course. But I thought about adding on vents thru reeds between the two cavities in ann effort to make the avail space for the crank case a little larger. Probably hobbie crap though.

[FlaHeatWave]

thanks Ed! 
nice pictures. Does Axtell make them in a silver polished finish like the S&S cylinders?
I still haven't ruled out using a finned ductile cylinder. I do like that they make for a more stable top end. Heat build up is my main concern.
The extra weight of them isn't an issue because it will be in a land barge and not a racer.

I just don't want any issues happening if I ran 400- 500 miles one day and then all the sudden hit bumper to bumper traffic and I can't get off on an exit ramp for miles.

I've been looking at the Jim's cooling fan that replaces the horn. This might be a good option to go along with ductile cylinders to help cool down the cylinders and heads if you run into a bad situation.

Ray

The Ward's PartsWorks Fans for the cylinder heads, The Big Sky Fans on the oil cooler, and keeping the Compression around 10.5-1 should be enough

[gordonr]

Are you or anybody else doing anything to help pressure and venting in the crank to cam chest?

Using the reed valve on INA of course. But I thought about adding on vents thru reeds between the two cavities in ann effort to make the avail space for the crank case a little larger. Probably hobbie crap though.

If your talking a "B" without balancers that could be another matter. Racing of course.