Lots of Internal Pics + Good Tech Info

[yobtaf103]

Any notice the ball bag fan. Me thinks this EPA motor may run hot from the factory.

http://www.harley-davidson.com/store/coolflow-fan

And the giant fanned oil cooler upgrade.

http://www.harley-davidson.com/store/fan-assisted-oil-cooler-kit
[/quote

Jeez, they flog it as an add on!!

[jbexeter]

Undoubtedly there is no lack of engineering talent, experience or resources at HD, but this looks like something designed by a comittee, with the actual engineers themselves having their hands tied, and having to revert to all sorts of crazy wrinkles to meet the comittee's wish list / demands.

Well we can't go a full water jacket for looks, so we'll just make do with oil cooling, a liquid that simply cannot compete with water when it comes to thermal transport.

Well we need at least 1/2 HP / 250 watts of DC power at idle to run all this eletronickery, so the motor is now wider, so we need a new compensator and we need to shift the balancers somewhere.

So the balancer gets put where if anything goes wrong it will impact the crank pin, presumably at high rpm, and the case will simply self destruct... having said that dropping bits of piston skirt in there will do it.

Be interesting to see a side by side comparison, evo or twinkie vs one of these and various jobs done and various shop times.... when Honda brought the cbx out and you had to tilt the entire engine forwards in the frame to balance the carbs everyone thought they were insane, but a lot of that stuff is par for the course now, removing fuel tanks to change service items like spark plugs and air filters, so service items don't get services and things die younger than they should.

[SP33DY]

Can anybody post up the part numbers for the cylinder heads? My local dealer said he does not have any part numbers for it yet. I need to get a set to put on the flowbench.

[harleytuner]

Is that gear drive set-up on the crank-driven balancer going to be noisy?  Victory bikes sound terrible at start up and idling (at least the last one I heard years ago did).  Whirred away like a gear driven cam Honda V4.  Hope not.  The Softail set-up was chain driven IIRC. 

-Tutt

THERE
there is a very noticeable whine I've been told.  Enough that there is already a dyno a few dealer complaints/calls about it. They were told it's normal.

I know of one company that is set to have a prototype custom ground cam in their hands Friday.  A working aftermarket tuner should be on the market very soon. Hopefully some A/C and exhaust options are soon to follow.  I keep hearing about tamper proof fasteners on the A/C but I was told by a guy that removed one off a prototype engine that it didn't require anything but normal tools, maybe they made a change for the final revision? 

[rich1]

HD first used the oil cooled heads on the XR1200. I owned one and was a member of an XR1200 forum. One of the members left his bike at Zippers as a test mule and they were very impressed with how effective cooling the heads with oil was. I realize this is a different animal but just pointing out it can be effective.

[joe_lyons]

HD first used the oil cooled heads on the XR1200. I owned one and was a member of an XR1200 forum. One of the members left his bike at Zippers as a test mule and they were very impressed with how effective cooling the heads with oil was. I realize this is a different animal but just pointing out it can be effective.

Better than nothing.

[BUBBIE]

  

I never looked How this system of Oil Cooling works..... Does the engine oil pump through or is it a separate system like a radiator, Pump? or just rely on heat to circulate the oil?

IF you use a synthetic (small sized Molecules)  and/or a really Thin Oil, it might surprise how well it can work... 

signed....BUBBIE

TKS Ron..... good response Below...

[rbabos]

 

I never looked How this system of Oil Cooling works..... Does the engine oil pump through or is it a separate system like a radiator, Pump? or just rely on heat to circulate the oil?

IF you use a synthetic (small sized Molecules)  and/or a really Thin Oil, it might surprise how well it can work... 

signed....BUBBIE

Probably a metered jet to control amount from the new increased flow pump used to counter this loss. That's how the vrod lubes the center section of the gear box.  Basically goes through and dumps back into the sump. Syn oils might be a better choice to reduce passage coking.
Ron

[jbexeter]

 

I never looked How this system of Oil Cooling works..... Does the engine oil pump through or is it a separate system like a radiator, Pump? or just rely on heat to circulate the oil?

IF you use a synthetic (small sized Molecules)  and/or a really Thin Oil, it might surprise how well it can work... 

signed....BUBBIE

Oil can work well to remove heat, apart from lubrication that is a *huge* job that oild does in an IC engine.

The *problem* is specific heat capacity, water is over twice as good as oil at transporting heat, so in restricted areas where flow is limited by cross sectional area such as galleries around the valves in the new heads, and indeed draining back down the barrels while maintaining the slim air cooled look, your maximum flow is fairly limited, so at the same maximum flow rate water could transport away heat at twice plus the speed of oil.

One of the reasons turbos die quickly is people don't let the engine spool down and idel for a couple of minutes while the oil carries away the heat from the bearings, so make no mistake that oil can transport significant amounts of heat, even if water is twice as good, you need new plumbing and jointing and separate systems.

In detroit diesels the fuel pressure system transported a lot of heat out of the engine, from memory the fuel circulation pump would do 40 gallons per minute on an 8v71...

If HD (or anyone else) had a *separate* oil pump to the lube pump that just circulated oil for cooling purposes you could transport some serious quantities of heat.

If HD (or anyone else) are using *just* the lube oil pump to do double duty then the oil cooling isn't "serious", so we can only assume that heat buildup in the exhaust valve area was only a borderline issue and not a serious issue.

[thunderalley3]

Looks like the same basic oil cooling  system that the XR1200 used a few years ago. It worked well

[boooby1744]

5.2 quarts capacity........? Any photos of the oil pan?

[Soft 02]

It appears the tranny is taller and closer to the motor to accommodate the larger oil pan. Note the fill is at the rear.

[04 SE Deuce]

I'm thinking it's possible that we can't see some parts that are under the balancer gear and the pin/slot are the travel limiters for a spring loaded or other type of compensating device that lessens shock on the gears between crank and balancer when the crank rpm changes abruptly.

[BUBBIE]

Kinda like the a Little movement under Sharp Load;  allowed movement for Not shearing apart? Another Small moving Compensator? 

signed....BUBBIE

[VDeuce]

Wonder if we will see roller rockers for these. Then again, perhaps the geometry is correct enough without the need for much higher lift to not make it worth it?

[rbabos]

Kinda like the a Little movement under Sharp Load;  allowed movement for Not shearing apart? Another Small moving Compensator? 

signed....BUBBIE

Doubt it. Gear is pressed on the crank. If anything the pin is a fail safe to not allow a slip that would cause crank contact and if someone views the spaces on each side of the pin they can see if it actually slipped or not. My take only.
Ron

[Soft 02]

Kinda like the a Little movement under Sharp Load;  allowed movement for Not shearing apart? Another Small moving Compensator? 

signed....BUBBIE

Doubt it. Gear is pressed on the crank. If anything the pin is a fail safe to not allow a slip that would cause crank contact and if someone views the spaces on each side of the pin they can see if it actually slipped or not. My take only.
Ron

Now that you mention it that makes more sense!

[04 SE Deuce]

Kinda like the a Little movement under Sharp Load;  allowed movement for Not shearing apart? Another Small moving Compensator? 

signed....BUBBIE

Doubt it. Gear is pressed on the crank. If anything the pin is a fail safe to not allow a slip that would cause crank contact and if someone views the spaces on each side of the pin they can see if it actually slipped or not. My take only.
Ron

Now that you mention it that makes more sense!

I'll stick with range/movement limiter.

[FSG]

 

I never looked How this system of Oil Cooling works..... Does the engine oil pump through or is it a separate system like a radiator, Pump? or just rely on heat to circulate the oil?

IF you use a synthetic (small sized Molecules)  and/or a really Thin Oil, it might surprise how well it can work... 

signed....BUBBIE

TKS Ron..... good response Below...

It's the engine oil pump that moves the oil through the cooling process, note there are two sizes of oil pumps, gotta run, pix and more info later.

[BUBBIE]

Might it use the Larger return gerotor for oil movement? Not the thin Pressure side of the gerotor?

I'll wait for your posting FSG...

tks

signed....BUBBIE

[rbabos]

 

I never looked How this system of Oil Cooling works..... Does the engine oil pump through or is it a separate system like a radiator, Pump? or just rely on heat to circulate the oil?

IF you use a synthetic (small sized Molecules)  and/or a really Thin Oil, it might surprise how well it can work... 

signed....BUBBIE

TKS Ron..... good response Below...

It's the engine oil pump that moves the oil through the cooling process, note there are two sizes of oil pumps, gotta run, pix and more info later.

I agree. Liquid and oil cooled have different pumps. As you pointed out it would need to be on the feed side, end of line jetted for restriction as a limiter so overall psi is maintained and the relief valve can do it's job. This will also slow the flow rate fill the galleys so the oil can conduct heat from more surface contact with oil. Fast flowing half filled galleys , oil won't conduct much.  Oil cooled version pump will be bigger, more output for this extra required task, yet plenty left for normal engine requirements. Mostly speculation on my part.

Ron

[Templer]

Would like to the the "duel spray" injectors

[FSG]

[FSG]

[FSG]

The SPROCKET SHAFT SPACER looks to be thicker and not tapered at the end(s) than that used in previous years




and the inside of the rotor where the spacer contacts is not undercut like previous years

so with the stronger magnets and increased output one would hope that stripped rotor splines are confined to history




I'm interested in getting a closer look at the outside of the rotor